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2013-09-20 00:07 <DocScrutinizer05> usual pricetag, starting at ~USD 20k for used refurbished ones
2013-09-20 00:10 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, any feeble humble lab that has some real tools is instantly in the range of millions :-D
2013-09-20 00:10 <DocScrutinizer05> Maybe I retrain for dentist, tools are cheaper X-P
2013-09-20 00:10 <DocScrutinizer05> or medical radiology
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2013-09-20 00:11 <DocScrutinizer05> hi qi-bot
2013-09-20 00:15 <wpwrak> 10 dBm tx output ? that works fine with an antenna
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2013-09-20 01:52 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
2013-09-20 01:53 <DocScrutinizer05> but RX doesn't seem to be built like a decent RF receiver, rather like a probe tool
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2013-09-20 07:45 <larsc> anybody ever built a FM radio?
2013-09-20 07:46 <viric> no, but we had to study it at the university :)
2013-09-20 07:48 <larsc> I'm just looking for tips how to design the filter to get out just the mono channel
2013-09-20 07:49 <larsc> my inital appraoch is to just set attenuation from 0 to 15kHz to 0dB and from 23kHz on to -50dB or so
2013-09-20 07:50 <viric> fine
2013-09-20 07:50 <viric> no?
2013-09-20 07:50 <viric> :)
2013-09-20 07:50 <larsc> at 19 kHz is the 'pilot tone'
2013-09-20 07:51 <larsc> don't know if that's going to be a problem
2013-09-20 07:51 <viric> I think that I can't help
2013-09-20 07:51 <viric> I don't remember such pilot tone.
2013-09-20 07:55 <larsc> It's for stereo
2013-09-20 07:55 <viric> ok
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2013-09-20 08:44 <roh> larsc: maybe old datasheets of mpx decoders can help you
2013-09-20 08:46 <roh> something like this one http://www.bucek.name/pdf/tda1591.pdf
2013-09-20 08:48 <roh> and maybe kravitnik.narod.ru/dtsheet/amplifier/TDA1596.pdf‎
2013-09-20 08:59 <larsc> hm, ok. thanks
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2013-09-20 12:30 <viric> larsc: are you giving your vote to non-germans? :)
2013-09-20 12:31 <larsc> what do you mean?
2013-09-20 12:32 <viric> http://egalitynow.org/
2013-09-20 12:35 <larsc> nah, my vote is not for sale
2013-09-20 12:35 <viric> eh eh, for free. not for sale. :)
2013-09-20 12:41 <larsc> I think the parliamentary democracy has probably failed anyway. One efficient way to abolish institutions is often to let them keep their shiny titles and stuff but take away any real power.
2013-09-20 12:42 <larsc> E.g. the queen is still called the queen and in theory she still has executive power, but in practice it is newer used
2013-09-20 12:43 <larsc> same with the parliament, they can still vote on laws, but the laws are written by other people anyway and they get told upfront how to vote on a certain law
2013-09-20 12:44 <viric> isn't it similar to saying that 'laws have failed', because few people follow the laws?
2013-09-20 12:44 <viric> I think parliaments have found their procedures and decisions not to be auditable.
2013-09-20 12:46 <viric> I mean... they found how to proceed, while the general public not being able to audit them
2013-09-20 12:46 <larsc> laws have failed when they are not enforced or not enforceable, not when people don't follow them
2013-09-20 12:46 <wpwrak> larsc: so .. that would mean a pirate party vote ? they're the ones who have a mechanism for telling their representatives how to vote. still not quite a direct democracy, but one step in that direction. of course, they have "issues" elsewhere ...
2013-09-20 12:46 <viric> larsc: yes, I meant that
2013-09-20 12:47 <wpwrak> many laws aren't meant to be enforced. they are much more useful as threats.
2013-09-20 12:47 <viric> Most parliaments have argued that they need secrecy, or they would be in huge international disadvantage. That secrecy is often used against the public interest, though.
2013-09-20 12:47 <viric> And many people accepted the pretext for the secrecy.
2013-09-20 12:48 <viric> I think that without the secrecy, all could work better
2013-09-20 12:48 <wpwrak> viric: No Secretos, Amigo ;-)
2013-09-20 12:48 <viric> that sounds like said by Terminator ;)
2013-09-20 12:49 <wpwrak> yeah. and i even have the right accent :)
2013-09-20 12:49 <larsc> elections are a polularity contest, who can tell the most bullshit without overstepping it
2013-09-20 12:49 <viric> nevertheless, it's not like parliaments completely ignore the population they govern
2013-09-20 12:49 <viric> if so, it could be much worse. :)
2013-09-20 12:49 <whitequark> larsc: I think the queen officially does not have any executive power.
2013-09-20 12:50 <whitequark> isn't that in the constitution?
2013-09-20 12:50 <wpwrak> whitequark: which queen ? (or is it "witch queen" ?)
2013-09-20 12:50 <larsc> I think in belgium the king still has to sign all new laws
2013-09-20 12:51 <whitequark> wpwrak: British?
2013-09-20 12:51 <larsc> he refused to this for one law and they had his doctor declare him unfit for duty for 3 days and then passed the law again
2013-09-20 12:51 <viric> in Spain, the king signature is used to *bypass* some steps in law approval
2013-09-20 12:51 <viric> for quick laws :)
2013-09-20 12:54 <wpwrak> whitequark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_power#United_Kingdom
2013-09-20 12:55 <viric> spain is more old style. the king is the head of the army, and passes quick laws.
2013-09-20 12:55 <wpwrak> kinda like Joffrey Baratheon / Lannister
2013-09-20 12:55 <whitequark> wpwrak: interesting
2013-09-20 12:56 <whitequark> >In 1999, Queen Elizabeth II, acting on the advice of the government, refused to signify her consent to the Military Action Against Iraq (Parliamentary Approval) Bill, which sought to transfer from the monarch to Parliament the power to authorise military strikes against Iraq.
2013-09-20 12:56 <viric> also organizes the weapon trade abroad
2013-09-20 12:56 <whitequark> so this is actually used for something important
2013-09-20 12:57 <wpwrak> whitequark: and it's used even more in the colonies, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_power#Australia
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2013-09-20 12:58 <wpwrak> especially "On 11 November 1975, when the Australian Governor-General Sir John Kerr dismissed the Commonwealth Government."
2013-09-20 12:58 <whitequark> yeah, I read about that case
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2013-09-20 17:09 <wpwrak> more toys :) http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/parts-20130920.jpg
2013-09-20 17:10 <wpwrak> the OLEDs are really tiny. very very thin.
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2013-09-20 17:23 <larsc> went on a shopping spree?
2013-09-20 17:25 <wpwrak> parts for anelok :) (with a few plan B, C, D options. things are so cheap in china that you need to order extra items just to make it worth the shipping :)
2013-09-20 17:25 <larsc> hehe
2013-09-20 17:37 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
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2013-09-20 18:04 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/er-oled-fpc30.fpd: make pads 0.06 mm wider, 0.1 mm longer (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/1bed122
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2013-09-20 18:16 <rjeffries> when a version with the new Baytrail gen Atom cpu is avaialble, and maybe a bump to 2 GB RAM, Minnowboard will be interesting for some use cases. Very open, if I read this correctly. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/199-4-2-computer-is-intels-first-raspberry-pi-competitor/
2013-09-20 18:20 <rjeffries> wpwrak: is first generation anelok device USB to laptop only (I think)? Then you may add an 802.15.4 radio + matching dongle for PC later?
2013-09-20 18:24 <rjeffries> asked this on mail list, no response (I think)...
2013-09-20 18:25 <rjeffries> has anyone looked at porting http://passwordsafe.sourceforge.net/ to Ben Nanonote? That is way beyond my knowledge. But it's an interesting concept. Different than Werner's (cool) anelok gadget.
2013-09-20 18:28 <whitequark> rjeffries: um, it's windows-only?
2013-09-20 18:29 <rjeffries> whitequark: no there is a beta version for linux
2013-09-20 18:30 <wpwrak> did you ? must have overlooked it :( i plan to have RF in there from the beginning. just won't make new dongles at first.
2013-09-20 18:30 <rjeffries> better kink here: https://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html
2013-09-20 18:30 <wpwrak> the prototypes, i need to have a more or less complete system. else, i won't be able to tell whether things will actually fit.
2013-09-20 18:31 <rjeffries> s/kink/link LOL
2013-09-20 18:31 <qi-bot> rjeffries meant: "better link LOL here: https://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html"
2013-09-20 18:34 <pcercuei> "Raspberry Pi competitor"
2013-09-20 18:35 <pcercuei> $199 vs $35
2013-09-20 18:35 <pcercuei> I don't call that a competitor
2013-09-20 18:41 <whitequark> ugh, GMA 600
2013-09-20 18:41 <whitequark> afaik, intel's gma is a horrible piece of hardware they bought, which doesn't work well (or at all under linux), and which they can't open up because licensing or something
2013-09-20 18:45 <larsc> not 500?
2013-09-20 18:46 <larsc> well it's probably the same
2013-09-20 18:46 <larsc> there is a basic opensource driver in mainline written by an intel employee though
2013-09-20 18:49 <pcercuei> GMA is terrible yes
2013-09-20 18:59 <whitequark> larsc: yeah, it also works like crap
2013-09-20 18:59 <whitequark> vesa is probably better
2013-09-20 19:05 <rjeffries> compared with Raspberry Pi (which I own and use and like) Minnowboard has disk i/o SATA2 and Gigabit Ethernet. With Baytrail ATOM (coming later) CPU power will be much better tha n RasPi
2013-09-20 19:12 <wpwrak> if you need all that CPU power ... :) (well, for video it's okay. most other things don't care)
2013-09-20 19:19 <pcercuei> a Rpi is already okay for video
2013-09-20 19:19 <pcercuei> provided you use hardware acceleration
2013-09-20 19:23 <wpwrak> hmm ... should anelok have a gold-metallic finish ? after all, apple is doing that now, so it's what everybody has to do, right ?
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2013-09-20 20:05 <larsc> neon pink please
2013-09-20 20:07 <wpwrak> "hello kitty" ?
2013-09-20 21:08 <roh> wpwrak: any ideas about the mechanics?
2013-09-20 21:08 <roh> mill positive, and the use casting residue and a negative silicone form?
2013-09-20 21:09 <roh> would make switching colors easier ;)
2013-09-20 21:09 <roh> or use a protocase with battery holder? (boring looks)
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2013-09-20 21:32 <wpwrak> this needs a custom case. and a custom battery holder ... but i can fake the latter :)
2013-09-20 21:32 <wpwrak> and i can't properly mill positive. otherwise, i'd just mill everything.
2013-09-20 21:33 <wpwrak> so my idea is to mill negative, then cast
2013-09-20 21:34 <wpwrak> my limitations for milling positive: 1) my mill flexes in the Z direction. relative Z positions (cut to cut) are fine, but absolute positions or air to cut have about +/- 0.5 mm of tolerance
2013-09-20 21:37 <wpwrak> 2) if i have to flip the piece, i get a positioning and angular error. angular error is small if i'm careful but positioning can be about 0.5-1 mm
2013-09-20 21:38 <wpwrak> the top shell could be milled with a completely flat side (though it would be nice to have rounded edges), but the bottom shell is more complex
2013-09-20 21:40 <wpwrak> if all else fails, i could just direct-mill a two piece case with flat top and bottom. at least for a rough prototype, this would be sufficient.
2013-09-20 21:40 <wpwrak> but it would of course be nicer if the case was properly done
2013-09-20 21:41 <wpwrak> for casting, my idea is to make molds of polyethylene, then cast polyester
2013-09-20 21:43 <wpwrak> i have a nice rear terrace with good natural ventilation and nobody nearby to notice the smell. thinking of it, i should probably cook meth there. at least they make it look very easy on "breaking bad" ;-)
2013-09-20 21:45 <wpwrak> it seems that polyester has enormous shrinkage, so that may be a problem. have to see how that goes. maybe it's enough to just have a large enough "backup" in the mold's entry. maybe not.
2013-09-20 21:46 <wpwrak> some say that epoxy is a bit nicer in general but it seems that it's just as bad when it comes to shrinkage
2013-09-20 21:48 <wpwrak> the best appears to be polyurethane, BUT ... it seems that air bubbles are a big problem there, you have to work very quickly, it really hates humidity (perfect for the semitropical climate i have here), it's expensive (compared to polyester), and - worst of all - it seems to be virtually non-existent in the local market
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2013-09-20 22:48 <roh> wpwrak: i see.. lots of fun problems
2013-09-20 22:48 <roh> that bubble-stuff is something you can fix
2013-09-20 22:48 <roh> use a air-compressor..
2013-09-20 22:48 <roh> un-bubble it.. ive seen videos about that
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2013-09-20 22:56 <wpwrak> yes, with a vacuum chamber. nice and pricey :)
2013-09-20 22:56 <roh> ;)
2013-09-20 22:57 <roh> i was just milling a load of frontpanels yesterday and today... so.. if you got some proper model and have a toolpath-gen which can output gcode.. i can mill down some stuff
2013-09-20 22:58 <roh> or do something crazy like joerg and reuse a mobile phone case ;)
2013-09-20 22:59 <roh> might also be a good 'hiding place' ... then it looks unsuspicious
2013-09-20 23:04 <wpwrak> you could always say it's an MP3 player :)
2013-09-20 23:04 <wpwrak> (milling) thanks ! i'm not quite there yet. first the electronics ...
2013-09-20 23:05 <roh> your programming rigs look really nice. congrats
2013-09-20 23:05 <roh> just clicking pics
2013-09-20 23:10 <wpwrak> thanks :) and all just MDF. doesn't get any cheaper, as far as raw materials are concerned :)
2013-09-20 23:12 <roh> true
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2013-09-20 23:32 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/ops.c (tool_comp_paths): don't crash if path list is empty (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/44d58a5
2013-09-20 23:32 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/gerber.c: crudely support some cases of G03 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/7aaaf86
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2013-09-20 23:33 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/tswa.fpd: add more measurements (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/4e10389
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