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2013-09-12 02:33 <qwebirc91502> +i
2013-09-12 02:35 <qwebirc91502> hello
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2013-09-12 11:25 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDAw7vW7H0c
2013-09-12 11:25 <DocScrutinizer05> oh yeah, noobs
2013-09-12 11:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I already had my rant on this, over in #maemo
2013-09-12 11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> yesterday iirc
2013-09-12 11:26 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: nevertheless thanks for pointing me at it
2013-09-12 11:27 <DocScrutinizer05> https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-09-11.log.html#t2013-09-11T19:56:38
2013-09-12 11:28 <larsc> the video is good though
2013-09-12 11:29 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: remind me, how much phones did you work on? three? :)
2013-09-12 11:29 <DocScrutinizer05> minimum three. Isn't that enough?
2013-09-12 11:29 <whitequark> more than
2013-09-12 11:30 <DocScrutinizer05> larsc: which is the problem indeed
2013-09-12 11:30 <DocScrutinizer05> the video makes sense, to those without any clue about EE
2013-09-12 11:31 <larsc> and that's what it's all about
2013-09-12 11:31 * whitequark nods
2013-09-12 11:31 <whitequark> I'll just point people to your rant.
2013-09-12 11:31 <whitequark> (which is why I have shown you it in the first place :)
2013-09-12 11:31 <DocScrutinizer05> even dos1 who's not an EE noticed "sure, a cpu has a few more than 4 pins"
2013-09-12 11:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I may add considerations about mere geometrics of the whole device, like positioning of aerials etc
2013-09-12 11:33 <DocScrutinizer05> modules with exceptional height like cam module
2013-09-12 11:33 <DocScrutinizer05> modules that need 532 pins
2013-09-12 11:33 <DocScrutinizer05> s/modules/BLOKs/
2013-09-12 11:33 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "BLOKs that need 532 pins"
2013-09-12 11:34 <larsc> who needs more than 3 pins anyway? gnd, vcc and one-wire communication
2013-09-12 11:34 <whitequark> who needs more than 0.01FPS anyway?
2013-09-12 11:35 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, Option GTM801 module is as good as it possibly gets, regarding this idea of modularity
2013-09-12 11:36 <DocScrutinizer05> http://atomictoasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/world_as_seen_by.png
2013-09-12 11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> this video probably made by designers
2013-09-12 11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> s/video/idea
2013-09-12 11:37 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "this idea probably made by designers"
2013-09-12 11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> dang you, qibot!
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2013-09-12 12:09 <DocScrutinizer05> oops, correction: it was kerio to notice "clearly, a cpu only needs 4 pins", not dos1
2013-09-12 12:11 <wpwrak> "This video is currently unavailable." what did i miss ?
2013-09-12 12:13 <whitequark> "hi-freq connectors are expensive" "it's a challenge. let's make cheaper connectors."
2013-09-12 12:13 <whitequark> "let's use usb. for camera and display panel"
2013-09-12 12:14 <whitequark> "ok, usb doesn't work, let's use hdmi for display instead"
2013-09-12 12:14 <whitequark> "clearly it is possible to at least upgrade RAM size"
2013-09-12 12:14 <whitequark> (from our internal chat)
2013-09-12 12:14 <whitequark> -_-
2013-09-12 12:14 <DocScrutinizer05> bwahahahaha
2013-09-12 12:15 <whitequark> "yeah, connectors are expensive, but I totally would solder that"
2013-09-12 12:15 <whitequark> he was fucking serious all the time
2013-09-12 12:15 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: maybe they recognized how much nonsense it been, and took it down?
2013-09-12 12:15 <whitequark> please excuse me while I'd cry down in a corner
2013-09-12 12:16 * DocScrutinizer05 hands whitequark a lolly
2013-09-12 12:16 <whitequark> wpwrak: still works for me
2013-09-12 12:16 <DocScrutinizer05> WFM2
2013-09-12 12:17 <whitequark> "companies are opposed to modular design because this means they'll get to sell less phones"
2013-09-12 12:17 <whitequark> "yeah, it works for notebooks this way too"
2013-09-12 12:17 * whitequark headdesks
2013-09-12 12:19 <larsc> whom are you talking to?
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2013-09-12 12:21 <whitequark> *cough* colleagues *cough*
2013-09-12 12:26 <cde> hi larsc
2013-09-12 12:26 <larsc> hello
2013-09-12 12:26 <cde> how are you?
2013-09-12 12:27 <larsc> I'm fine
2013-09-12 12:27 <cde> good
2013-09-12 12:27 <wpwrak> ah, a general rant.
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2013-09-12 12:33 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: start with a "simple" thing: make WLAN a module! Ask your colleague how to handle that on a embedded level. What to do when the next chip doesn't use SPI but any arbitrary other interface?
2013-09-12 12:34 <cde> just use a otherinterface-to-spi bridge ;) like pcie to spi, problem solved
2013-09-12 12:34 <DocScrutinizer05> or go for modem. One uses USB, one "usb"-ULPI, one fast-UART, the next usues shared RAM, the next ... You see?
2013-09-12 12:34 <wpwrak> cde: wrong
2013-09-12 12:35 <cde> I was trolling, wpwrak
2013-09-12 12:35 <wpwrak> cdw: the correct answer is: "use an Arduino" !
2013-09-12 12:35 <cde> haha true :)
2013-09-12 12:35 <cde> or maybe a raspberry pi would be perfect
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2013-09-12 12:36 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: you can bit-bang 'em all :)
2013-09-12 12:37 <DocScrutinizer05> (modem) some come with GPS, some even with MiMO (multi aerials) for diversity. You're going to have ~6 general-purpose antenna connectors on your generic modem module socket?
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2013-09-12 12:38 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: yep, clearly the silicon doesn't do anything else ;-)
2013-09-12 12:38 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: their answer to that is "let's just use usb for everything"
2013-09-12 12:38 <DocScrutinizer05> in the end everything is just bitbang
2013-09-12 12:39 <whitequark> and obviously no clue about aerials
2013-09-12 12:39 <whitequark> "well there should be some way"
2013-09-12 12:39 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: my answer to *that* is: USB is about as bad as it gets for a general purpose low power interface
2013-09-12 12:40 <whitequark> you understand that. I understand that. average joe has a bunch of USB peripherals which "just work"
2013-09-12 12:40 <wpwrak> i would nominate PLC :)
2013-09-12 12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> your modular phone based on "USB for everything" will hardly work >3h even on a bulky battery
2013-09-12 12:41 <wpwrak> a very reasonably-sized car battery should do just fine
2013-09-12 12:41 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
2013-09-12 12:41 <whitequark> "well, ten years ago we had brick-sized phones and now we have 100000 more powerful ones in a fraction of size!"
2013-09-12 12:41 <DocScrutinizer05> you can even make a BLOK out of it
2013-09-12 12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, thanks to specialization in interfaces
2013-09-12 12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks to MIPI HSI etc
2013-09-12 12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> nix USB
2013-09-12 12:42 <whitequark> the ultimate answer to "no, it's not possible with current tech" is "dude why are you so boring"
2013-09-12 12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
2013-09-12 12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> stop that discussion, it's futile
2013-09-12 12:43 <whitequark> long ago
2013-09-12 12:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
2013-09-12 12:43 <larsc> well, people should be allowed to dream
2013-09-12 12:43 <whitequark> it's just those guys whose solution for every problem is an arduino. very cringeworthy.
2013-09-12 12:43 <whitequark> (that's not even a metaphor)
2013-09-12 12:44 <larsc> well if all you have is an hammer...
2013-09-12 12:44 <whitequark> ... you will very likely soon miss a finger or two
2013-09-12 12:44 <whitequark> what were we talking about again?
2013-09-12 12:44 <DocScrutinizer05> and peel your eggs with a hammer
2013-09-12 12:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and spread the butter on your toast with a hammer
2013-09-12 12:45 <wpwrak> now we know how the nutritional value of egg shell fragments in scrambled eggs was discovered
2013-09-12 12:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and claim "a hammer is an awesome tool, look what I can do with it"
2013-09-12 12:46 <wpwrak> and then you become a dentist ...
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