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(master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/3256b03 2013-09-10 15:01 grmbl. s/sent/set/ 2013-09-10 15:10 gbraad_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2013-09-10 15:21 have you found some website that blocks wget? 2013-09-10 15:21 yes. digi-key, of all places 2013-09-10 15:30 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 2013-09-10 15:45 DocScrutinizer06 is now known as DocScrutinizer05 2013-09-10 15:57 facT: evil scientists use wget 2013-09-10 15:57 so digi-key is making humanity safer 2013-09-10 16:13 your mom uses wget! 2013-09-10 16:17 that was unexpected 2013-09-10 16:17 larsc: by the way, did you like SML? 2013-09-10 16:17 I'm now using lots of OCaml and it's great; SML strikes me as way too oversimplified and academic 2013-09-10 16:18 yea, SML is a language made for teaching 2013-09-10 16:18 and for writing compilers 2013-09-10 16:22 but to be honest I didn't follow the course through completely 2013-09-10 16:24 I think I abandoned it after a week. 2013-09-10 16:24 coincidentally, it took about a week to learn 90% of commonly used OCaml, so it was probably a good idea to not waste time. 2013-09-10 16:48 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-09-10 17:43 FDCX_ has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 18:36 woakas has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-09-10 18:41 hmm .. where to host the pwsafe project ? qihw (in DE) or github in (the US), this is the question ... 2013-09-10 18:43 there's also gitorious in norway 2013-09-10 18:43 but I'd say github. 2013-09-10 18:43 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-09-10 18:43 they don't lock you in, so even if they do something nasty, it doesn't matter very much... 2013-09-10 18:43 if you want to go the free software way gitorious 2013-09-10 18:44 * whitequark coughs 2013-09-10 18:44 why? 2013-09-10 18:44 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 18:45 well, you were implying that github is "not FOSS way", and I understand your reasons 2013-09-10 18:45 well gitourious is AGPL 2013-09-10 18:45 github closed source 2013-09-10 18:45 yeah, gitorious would be the 3rd choice. haven't used them yet. let's see what they have ... 2013-09-10 18:46 so if you want to make a point about free software use gitorious 2013-09-10 18:46 if you just want a place to host your stuff use github 2013-09-10 18:47 gitorious is ok, but they didn't put a lot of work into UI. 2013-09-10 18:48 depends on whether you actually want to use their website/issue tracker/etc or just leave files lying in git. 2013-09-10 18:48 it's opensource fit it ;) 2013-09-10 18:48 fix 2013-09-10 18:48 i'm also thinking of things like commit notifications in IRC. qihw has them. github as well, though some say they're not so nice. (they may mean the join/leave noise) 2013-09-10 18:48 wpwrak: you can disable the noise 2013-09-10 18:48 I think you can even setup custom scripts 2013-09-10 18:49 for commit hooks 2013-09-10 18:49 there's some combination of flags on freenode which solves that 2013-09-10 18:49 so you could send the update to qi-bot 2013-09-10 18:49 woakas has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 18:49 whitequark: yes, but then you need to set up the channel to allow messages from the outside 2013-09-10 18:49 I think you can permit that only for GH? 2013-09-10 18:49 not sure though 2013-09-10 18:49 larsc: i'd love to just pick something that works :) 2013-09-10 18:49 larsc: there's also http://gitlab.org/ 2013-09-10 18:49 which would be my choice :) 2013-09-10 18:50 wpwrak: ah come on, where is your spirit? 2013-09-10 18:52 summer is coming. today it's 35 C. the air is full of pollen, because natures feels the spring. technically, it's of course still winter. so yeah, there's the spirit, a mix of hay fever, hibernation, and lazy siestas 2013-09-10 18:52 * whitequark . o O ( winter is coming ) 2013-09-10 18:53 wpwrak: you lucky southern hemisphere bastard! 2013-09-10 18:53 wait. I just realized that if I fly to the opposite hemisphere each 6 months, I can have an eternal summer 2013-09-10 18:53 today was the first day I wished I had packed a headband for my way home from work 2013-09-10 18:54 whitequark: or eternal winter ;) 2013-09-10 18:54 * whitequark shudders 2013-09-10 18:54 I want to have eternal early summer 2013-09-10 18:54 24 degree C and I'm happy 2013-09-10 18:56 but it is cooling down fast, it still was over 30 degree on saturday and about 15 today 2013-09-10 18:57 arossdotme has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 18:58 yeah, the time right after the pollen would be good. or maybe a warm winter day, not more than 25 C, no pollen, no gnats, ... 2013-09-10 18:58 so yea winter is comming (funny how everybody now knows that phrase) 2013-09-10 18:59 warm winter day is -10 ;) 2013-09-10 19:00 hmm, a really cold day in buenos aires is slightly below 0 C at dawn 2013-09-10 19:01 ok, where do I have to sign up? 2013-09-10 19:01 but we also have winter days that are above 20 C during the day and in the mid-10 at night. that's not so bad. you still need a jacket if you go out in the evening, but it's quite tolerable 2013-09-10 19:01 tell your boss you want to telework more :) 2013-09-10 19:02 he probably won't like that 2013-09-10 19:03 no one would probably mind if I relocate to BA, but I'm somewhat hesitant 2013-09-10 19:04 sometimes I wish I was a webdeveloper or something, only thing you need is your laptop and your head 2013-09-10 19:04 larsc: if you're a web developer, you don't need your brain anymore. 2013-09-10 19:04 that's for certain. 2013-09-10 19:05 I used to be a web developer 2013-09-10 19:05 (when I was 14) 2013-09-10 19:05 same here 2013-09-10 19:05 as web developer, you'll need your laptop, your head, and a real job :) 2013-09-10 19:05 (but I was there longer, I think) 2013-09-10 19:05 :D 2013-09-10 19:06 wpwrak: it's funny but some of these jobs actually pay really well 2013-09-10 19:07 well, there are actually such jobs here. they recruit people who just left university, preferably within getting a diploma, pay them shit, then sell their services to clients abroad. that works pretty well 2013-09-10 19:07 and those that pay well ... of course every lottery has some winning ticket ... ;) 2013-09-10 19:09 university? 2013-09-10 19:09 are we talking about web development? 2013-09-10 19:11 think of it as a filter. "made it through more than one semester -> can probably read and, with the help of a team mate, write" 2013-09-10 19:11 well, i'm exaggerating a little. the eduction isn't so bad yet, but keeps getting worse 2013-09-10 19:11 actually we have a sad joke here 2013-09-10 19:12 "made it through university -> can do useless stuff for higher-ups and not whine too much for five years straight" 2013-09-10 19:12 (which is sad because it isn't much of a joke) 2013-09-10 19:13 gitorious: "wpwrak is watching" i already feel like someone's observing me :) 2013-09-10 19:14 most of classes, especially in less-known places, are like that... checking whether you can memorize half a hundred of pages before exam, reproduce them, and forget immediately afterwards. 2013-09-10 19:15 viric has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-09-10 19:15 i can secure your web pages ;-) 2013-09-10 19:16 wpwrak: not pay shit i meant not of all then, but here are people always want to ask less money so become hard ask for more in that conditions 2013-09-10 19:19 next, a license ... i really want to use libopencm3. alas, it's (still) under LGPL3 ... 2013-09-10 19:20 they're thinking of changing that to LGPL-link-with-anything (kinda LGPL as it was traditionally understood), but that hasn't happened yet and i'm not sure it ever will 2013-09-10 19:27 hmm .. if I pick GPLv2+, that would meet the LGPLv3 compatibility (i.e., the GPLv2+ is used as meaning GPLv3+) and i think someone could still legally rewrite this to a different low-level library (replacing libopencm3), which would then allow use under GPLv2(+) conditions 2013-09-10 19:28 does that sound correct ? 2013-09-10 19:33 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 19:44 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 19:52 Textmode has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 20:47 arossdotme has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2013-09-10 21:01 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2013-09-10 21:04 Luke-Jr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-09-10 21:13 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 21:14 FDCX_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2013-09-10 21:26 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 21:26 Luke-Jr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-09-10 21:28 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 22:22 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2013-09-10 22:26 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 22:32 well you can always dual license 2013-09-10 22:33 only the resulting binary has the restrictions 2013-09-10 22:33 that's what it basically would be: licensed under GPLv2+ but that's de facto elevated to GPLv3 by libopencm3 2013-09-10 22:37 licenses. can't live with them, can't live without them 2013-09-10 22:37 indeed, indeed ... 2013-09-10 22:38 btw what's the problem with LGPLv3? 2013-09-10 22:38 it protects your freedom 2013-09-10 22:39 'freedom' ;) 2013-09-10 22:46 freedom of your users, sure 2013-09-10 22:46 but certainly not yours 2013-09-10 22:46 * whitequark shrugs 2013-09-10 22:49 but you yourself are a user whitequark. so you benefit as well 2013-09-10 22:49 only if I'm not a developer 2013-09-10 22:50 I don't see a huge divide between users and developers. it's more of a continuum 2013-09-10 22:51 that's the thing with GPL: for owner, no strings are attached, because they're the owner. for users, no strings are attached, because freedom 0. developers are at the huge disadvantage. 2013-09-10 22:52 on the contrary. developers gain honour and respect 2013-09-10 22:53 if they agree with the restrictions 2013-09-10 22:53 correct 2013-09-10 22:53 GPL is an offensive license. that's not inherently bad, but all the talk about how GPL is the only true free license gets tiring 2013-09-10 22:54 in general it's not entirely free until you assign copyright to the FSF. then it becomes truely free because the FSF will not relicense under a less free license 2013-09-10 22:54 just as with proprietary ones, it's not about sharing, it's all about forcing your own view of world upon someone else 2013-09-10 22:55 for your (not necessarily monetary, of course) advantage 2013-09-10 22:57 in my experience, companies will reuse whatever source code they can find without contributing back 2013-09-10 22:58 consider Apple with iOS, for instance. BSD based, and how did it benefit the BSD community? 2013-09-10 22:58 LLVM? 2013-09-10 22:58 hmm yes you have a point 2013-09-10 22:58 Apple also contributed webkit so they aren't fully evil 2013-09-10 22:59 * whitequark sighs 2013-09-10 22:59 see, what I'm talking about is not whether offensive license are "good" or "evil" or whatever. mainly just about calling things their true names. 2013-09-10 22:59 afaik Apple kept pretty much all the code they used that is BSD licensed open; it's the frameworks that were never under BSD license that they keep secret 2013-09-10 23:00 case in point: I've considered licensing my compiler (for embedded devices) and its stdlib under GPLv3 2013-09-10 23:00 *without* linking exception. 2013-09-10 23:02 (or code generation one) 2013-09-10 23:03 can you claim authorship of generated code? 2013-09-10 23:04 mth: the idea was to say "here's the user code, and here's compiler-inserted code; they're useless without each other and certainly linked together". 2013-09-10 23:05 if compiler-inserted code is in chunks of nontrivial size, like the stdlib, that's certainly valid 2013-09-10 23:05 crudely: the body of function is user's, the prologue and epilogue are mine. 2013-09-10 23:05 for code generation, I'm not so sure 2013-09-10 23:06 would you *want* to check this in court? 2013-09-10 23:06 no, but I wouldn't bet on which side would win if it did end up in court either 2013-09-10 23:07 "no". yeah, exactly what I was aiming for, see. 2013-09-10 23:08 viric has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-09-10 23:16 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2013-09-10 23:23 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]