2013-08-04 00:02 FDCX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-08-04 00:02 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 00:04 wpwrak: I'm cooking soup in the hacklab, there's pizz 2013-08-04 00:04 FDCX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-08-04 00:05 at the heretics ? 2013-08-04 00:05 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 00:08 meeeh. 2013-08-04 00:09 FDCX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-08-04 00:10 heretics? 2013-08-04 00:10 who was the evil dude who put a 10pin ic into a package which is only 1.8x1.4mm and 0.5mm thick? 2013-08-04 00:10 heredia 2013-08-04 00:11 RSW (R-PUQFN-N10) 2013-08-04 00:11 in Barracas. I'm going to get some beer. Cris is on her way. 2013-08-04 00:11 ah, better located hacklab :) 2013-08-04 00:11 wpwrak: aristobulo del valle 1851 2013-08-04 00:11 stay clear. dont solder by hand. and if you do: heat up some solid flux and dunk the tinned part before placing 2013-08-04 00:13 colophonium in my case. 2013-08-04 00:13 hellekin: can't go today. but tell me a bit in advance the next time 2013-08-04 00:14 roh: (size) nice and compact :) 2013-08-04 00:14 wpwrak: normally every Saturday, but I didn't expect to stay that late nor to cook :] 2013-08-04 00:14 but the organic garden gave some food so 2013-08-04 00:14 ok, time to get beeeeeer :] 2013-08-04 00:14 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 00:25 heh :) 2013-08-04 00:38 hmm, github is stuttering 2013-08-04 00:38 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 01:15 arossdotme1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 01:20 indeed 2013-08-04 01:21 btw wpwrak, you might find the PCB[-RF/aerial] design (as well as the chip) in http://www.nordicsemi.com/kor/content/download/2726/34069/file/nRF24L01P_Product_Specification_1_0.pdf inspiring 2013-08-04 01:28 keeping the antenna simple :) 2013-08-04 01:28 the chip doesn't look so sexy, though. GFSK. 2013-08-04 01:33 what's wrong with GFSK (or any modulation as long as RX and TX understand it)? 2013-08-04 01:34 yes, finding a suitable peer 2013-08-04 01:34 you're deep in non-standard land there 2013-08-04 01:34 those chips are not meant to be compatible to anything else 2013-08-04 01:35 yeah. that's why i find them somewhat unsexy 2013-08-04 01:35 and as long as the few uA in standbymode-1 are actually for idle RX with wakeup, I'm all fine with that 2013-08-04 01:36 I'm rather wondering what's RL range such a pair of transceivers can do 2013-08-04 01:37 the at86rf231 needs 20 nA in sleep 2013-08-04 01:38 1/45 of the 900 nA bonfire that nordic chip produces ;-) 2013-08-04 01:38 ffio_ has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 01:38 mhm 2013-08-04 01:38 sounds good, indeed 2013-08-04 01:39 and it can blast the neighbourhood at a full +3 dBm 2013-08-04 01:39 and sleep means it's listening? 2013-08-04 01:40 ffio has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-08-04 01:40 dang, I'm so out of hw business 2013-08-04 01:40 btw, there's now a lower-cost variant, the 232 2013-08-04 01:40 no, sleep means it's sleeping :) 2013-08-04 01:41 meh 2013-08-04 01:41 listening only to the I/O line that tells it whether to sleep or wake 2013-08-04 01:41 I'm only interested in receivers to actually *receive* and still need only uA or nA 2013-08-04 01:42 rz2k has quit [] 2013-08-04 01:42 no use in an actor that's only listening 0.01% of thime 2013-08-04 01:42 time* 2013-08-04 01:43 I need RF that can operate actors from let's say 3V 1000mAh for months 2013-08-04 01:43 listening equals receiving 2013-08-04 01:44 so, 12.1 mA in your nordic chip 2013-08-04 01:44 that's awful 2013-08-04 01:45 11.8 mA in the at86rf232. also here, atmel wins :) 2013-08-04 01:45 I wonder what those FS20 / homematic are using 2013-08-04 01:45 the at86rf231 burnt 12.3 mA, losing by a narrow margin. guess marketing had to have that fixed :) 2013-08-04 01:46 I mean, my doorlock works a year from 4 AAA 2013-08-04 01:47 and it opens instantly when I press the button of the key transmitter 2013-08-04 01:49 make the transmitter send a continuous burst. wake up every ~50 ms, bring up the receiver (at86rf231: 380+110 us), listen for a few 100 us, go back to sleep 2013-08-04 01:50 there you are, 2% duty cycle, and it's still "instantaneous" 2013-08-04 01:50 anyway, need to have a walk to next postpox, sending out some PAR414 "backup battery" 0.06F capacitors to guys who wanna fix their phones' RTC 2013-08-04 01:50 you even have enough time to miss a few transmissions 2013-08-04 01:51 ;-) 2013-08-04 01:51 interest timing for going postal :) 2013-08-04 01:51 air is better now 2013-08-04 01:52 you know, here it's summer 2013-08-04 01:52 in daytime it's been unbearable 2013-08-04 01:53 well, actually today 'only' 32°C 2013-08-04 01:53 5° less than the last 2 days 2013-08-04 01:54 can the RX start up in such short time, to full operation and sensitivity? 2013-08-04 01:55 Mistah_Darcy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2013-08-04 01:57 well, probably it should, considering the number of full sine waves at e.g. 680MHz 2013-08-04 01:57 32 C *snicker* 2013-08-04 01:57 even 4 times as many on those chips we discussed 2013-08-04 01:58 I know, you need gloves and a thick jacket to survive such low temperatures 2013-08-04 01:59 110 us from sleep to xtal up, 380 us from that to receiving, yes 2013-08-04 01:59 mhm 2013-08-04 01:59 0.5ms 2013-08-04 01:59 well 2013-08-04 02:00 fair enough 2013-08-04 02:00 those chips have other issues, but rf slowness is not one of them 2013-08-04 02:00 then we're actually at 100some uA 2013-08-04 02:01 plus overhead for the controller 2013-08-04 02:02 yeah 2013-08-04 02:02 I'm looking for chips that have such duty cycle powersaving integrated 2013-08-04 02:03 a simple carrier detect was already fine, of course a MAC addr decoding even better 2013-08-04 02:04 there's a problem with the MAC protocol. it requires CSMA, so you get a hefty extra delay you can't control. this means that you effectively have to stay on the air a bit longer. 2013-08-04 02:04 but you can play tricks, e.g., see if there's a carrier, even if you missed the beginning of the frame 2013-08-04 02:04 if you see a carrier, then stay up a bit longer 2013-08-04 02:04 that's what I meant 2013-08-04 02:05 if you really want to go primitive, only check the RSSI and make the sender emit a constant wave (it can do that in test mode) ;-) 2013-08-04 02:06 of course, all your wlan-loving neighbours will hate you ... ;-) 2013-08-04 02:08 I hate that idiot spider that always checks path /b/c/d when somewhere it finds an URL /a/b/c/d 2013-08-04 02:08 spams my server logs each night 2013-08-04 02:08 404 Not Found 2013-08-04 02:08 /950/myimages/xtract/flasher32/usr/share/doc/copyright: 2 Time(s) 2013-08-04 02:08 /950/myimages/xtract/flasher32/usr/share/flasher: 1 Time(s) 2013-08-04 02:10 actually it checks /a/b/d 2013-08-04 02:11 must be microsoft 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: The "tr1" namespace is no longer needed now that we're on C++11 (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/fb8f4e6 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Do not draw NULL icon (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/dd55b72 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Restrict access to Link::recalcCoordinates() (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/a7b3166 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Cleaned up Menu::loadIcons() (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/40372d1 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Moved most Menu::loadIcons() code into Link/LinkApp classes (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/a9b5d8b 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Made ASFont::utf8Code() a function in inputdialog.cpp instead (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/0046fa9 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Renamed ASFont class to just Font (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/724aefe 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Don't construct non-functional Font objects (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/f8dc4c7 2013-08-04 02:15 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Put main loop painting code in separate methods (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/cbe7735 2013-08-04 02:34 wpwrak: at86rf231 is one chip, with RF and MCU, no? 2013-08-04 02:37 btw r0let's antenna is quite "different": chip antenna plus a pcb triangle pad nearby, as far as I can see it 2013-08-04 02:37 r0ket's* 2013-08-04 02:43 http://www.johansontechnology.com/images/stories/ip/rf-antennas/Antenna_2450AT42A100_08-29-2008.pdf I honestly wonder if that triangle copperpad nearby has seen any considerations regarding RF 2013-08-04 02:46 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20130804_003.jpg 2013-08-04 02:47 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 02:52 ooh, nevermind, it's just a silly lightgreen silkscreen printing 2013-08-04 03:08 btw those guys are real hackers :-) they dualuse LED3 (red, upper right, charge-LED, PIO1_11) as ambient light sensor. Feels almost like one of my original designs 2013-08-04 03:09 http://r0ket.badge.events.ccc.de/hardware http://r0ket.badge.events.ccc.de/_media/r0ket.sch.png 2013-08-04 03:09 the 231 has no mcu. there others that integrate an avr. but better get something decent 2013-08-04 03:14 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 03:25 wpwrak: do you know why green LEDs get a red component and thus shine yellowish when operated at or above upper current limit? 2013-08-04 03:47 naw, never noticed such an effect 2013-08-04 04:50 oh, there indeed is one 2013-08-04 05:07 MistahDarcy has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 05:35 I always wondered why that was 2013-08-04 05:39 well, if nothing is published anywhere about that, we have one simple option: find out by ourselves about a few parameters 2013-08-04 05:40 I lately got a nice electronically controlled reflow hot air tool. Might test if it's temperature 2013-08-04 05:40 cost me an LED ;-) 2013-08-04 05:42 what I already know: the effect is accumulative, I.E. it builds up and increases while current stays same 2013-08-04 05:44 and it's (mostly?) reversible - though LEDs tend to get dimmer, resp they efficiency seems to drop. They deteriorate 2013-08-04 05:45 I'd suspect some effect that's closely related to the semiconductor crystal deteriorating due to heat 2013-08-04 05:47 interesting 2013-08-04 05:48 I know that temperature changes bandgap voltage, which in turn directly affects color 2013-08-04 05:48 it's very visible if you e.g. put the led in liquid nitrogen 2013-08-04 05:48 I'd expect that heating it up would redistribute impurities (?) changing bandgap voltage as well? 2013-08-04 05:52 or no, actually, that prolly has nothing to do with impurities 2013-08-04 05:52 just the temperature. 2013-08-04 05:55 http://ecee.colorado.edu/~bart/book/eband5.htm 2013-08-04 06:56 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 07:00 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2013-08-04 07:01 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 07:12 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 07:13 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 07:25 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 07:27 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 07:30 ffio_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 2013-08-04 07:31 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 07:32 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 07:36 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 07:39 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 07:41 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:00 dandon_ has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:00 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:02 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:03 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:04 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:05 dandon_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:08 dandon_ has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:09 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:12 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:13 dandon_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:16 arossdotme has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:21 arossdotme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:22 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:22 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:22 arossdotme has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:24 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:25 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:26 dandon has quit [Client Quit] 2013-08-04 08:27 arossdotme has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:28 arossdotme has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:33 arossdotme has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:34 arossdotme has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 08:35 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 08:42 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 10:33 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 10:34 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 10:36 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 10:43 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2013-08-04 10:45 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 11:20 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 11:22 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2013-08-04 11:31 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 15:34 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 15:51 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 15:52 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2013-08-04 15:53 .s 2013-08-04 15:55 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-08-04 16:01 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 17:14 lekernel has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2013-08-04 18:44 dandon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-08-04 18:55 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 19:06 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 19:41 kilae has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 2013-08-04 19:54 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 20:06 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 20:19 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 20:58 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-08-04 22:49 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2013-08-04 23:32 lunavorax has joined #qi-hardware 2013-08-04 23:33 Hello everyone 2013-08-04 23:33 I've just become aware of the OLinuXino project 2013-08-04 23:33 Any thoughts about that?