2013-07-18 00:00 <roh> http://scasagrande.blogspot.ca/2012/04/gpibusb-for-sale.html this one... i just never used pics the last 10 years...
2013-07-18 00:01 <roh> thus no flasher around.. of course i didnt buy kits from him.. someone ordered the parts and the pcbs
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2013-07-18 00:21 <Luke-Jr> http://www.diygadget.com/tiao-usb-multi-protocol-adapter-jtag-spi-i2c-serial.html looks nice..?
2013-07-18 00:37 <roh> should be ok
2013-07-18 00:37 <roh> seems they added a level shifter for jtag and one for rs232 levels
2013-07-18 00:41 <roh> similar to the moko board, but less specific. quite nice design. and cheap. still not fully open but who cares for such details which are obvious ;)
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2013-07-18 02:13 <wpwrak> Luke-Jr: maybe you need to get a better soldering iron. oh, and when working with smt and such, always apply plenty of flux. that's the magic ingredient that makes things work properly.
2013-07-18 02:17 <wpwrak> Luke-Jr: but i can assure you that modern electronic can be soldered by hand :) for example, i soldered all these critters: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/boards-so-far.jpg
2013-07-18 02:18 <wpwrak> so wouldn't go much smaller than that, though. the contact spacing of the chips is 0.5 mm, the resistors and such have 0402 packages.
2013-07-18 02:43 <Luke-Jr> wpwrak: maybe. the one I use is from the 1970s
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2013-07-18 03:02 <wpwrak> you may want to get something a little more modern :) doesn't have to be too fancy. but temperature-controlled is nice. also allows you to adjust the heat. e.g., ~270 C for regular work, more if you have large metal pieces involved
2013-07-18 03:04 <Luke-Jr> wpwrak: but I wouldn't know what to adjust it to :/
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2013-07-18 04:46 <rozzin1> Have any of you ever tried using a NanoNote w/ the µSD Wi-Fi adapter as an acess-point?
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2013-07-18 08:48 <sanderr_> rozzin1: No, but I think I should. :)
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2013-07-18 09:07 <kyak> guys, what's the difference between 'man 2 recv' and 'man 3 recv'?
2013-07-18 09:07 <kyak> i understand that 2 is Linux programmer's manual, and 3 is POSIX's
2013-07-18 09:07 <kyak> but why would i refer to POSIX programmer's manual anyway?
2013-07-18 09:08 <kyak> it clearly states that "implementation of this interface may differ from Linux or may not be implemented in Linux."
2013-07-18 09:08 <kyak> so what's the point of 'man 3 recv'?
2013-07-18 09:09 <whitequark> because you may be trying to write portable code
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2013-07-18 09:43 <kyak> but how it is portable, if implementation may differ from Linux or not implemented at all?
2013-07-18 09:44 <whitequark> well, portable code adheres to POSIX
2013-07-18 09:44 <whitequark> so if you only follow the POSIX manual and do not use anything that is not included there, your code will be portable
2013-07-18 09:45 <whitequark> in theory at least :)
2013-07-18 09:45 <kyak> it doesn't say that POSIX is a subset of Linux
2013-07-18 09:45 <kyak> in fact, it says the opposite
2013-07-18 09:46 <whitequark> http://linux.die.net/man/2/recv
2013-07-18 09:46 <whitequark> Conforming To
2013-07-18 09:46 <whitequark> 4.4BSD (these function calls first appeared in 4.2BSD), POSIX.1-2001.
2013-07-18 09:46 <whitequark> so Linux is a superset of POSIX
2013-07-18 09:46 <whitequark> (for this call that is)
2013-07-18 09:47 <whitequark> oh, I see what you mean
2013-07-18 09:47 <whitequark> the POSIX manual prologue is the same for all POSIX manual pages
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2013-07-18 09:48 <kyak> ah, ok..
2013-07-18 09:48 <whitequark> and Linux indeed is not completely compatible with POSIX
2013-07-18 09:49 <kyak> should one follow POSIX manuals, and cross-reference with Linux manuals from time to time, or vice versa? :)
2013-07-18 09:50 <whitequark> it depends on what you want to achieve :)
2013-07-18 09:50 <whitequark> there is quite a bit of Linux-only software which doesn't even try to be portable
2013-07-18 09:50 <whitequark> *cough* systemd
2013-07-18 09:50 <kyak> ok, i see your point
2013-07-18 09:50 <whitequark> additionally there are POSIX extensions which are implemented in one way or another by most *nix systems
2013-07-18 09:51 <viric> posix doesn't only define portability in terms of kernel syscalls
2013-07-18 09:51 <viric> the same way, not all software running in a GNU/Linux has to keep posix compatibility to the kernel
2013-07-18 09:53 <kyak> yeah, definitely not.. That's why Linux programmer's manual is there
2013-07-18 09:53 <kyak> so one could create posix-incompatible software :)
2013-07-18 09:54 <whitequark> viric: I'm not sure if POSIX even refers to syscalls
2013-07-18 09:54 <whitequark> it's defined in terms of behavior of library routines
2013-07-18 09:54 <whitequark> and `read' isn't exactly close to `sysread'
2013-07-18 09:59 <viric> exactly
2013-07-18 10:00 <viric> in fact glibc has code to emulate kernel-side things, in case you build a glibc for older kernels not having that functionality.
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2013-07-18 13:09 <rozzin1> kyak, whitequark: man sections 2/3 are not `Linux vs. POSIXl', it's `kernel vs. library'.
2013-07-18 13:09 <whitequark> http://linux.die.net/man/3/recv
2013-07-18 13:09 <whitequark> >This manual page is part of the POSIX Programmer's Manual.
2013-07-18 13:10 <whitequark> http://linux.die.net/man/2/recv
2013-07-18 13:10 <whitequark> The prototypes given above follow glibc2.
2013-07-18 13:10 <rozzin1> http://linux.die.net/man/3/scandir
2013-07-18 13:10 <whitequark> pretty sure it's both library
2013-07-18 13:10 <rozzin1> There's plenty in section 3 that's either Linux-specific or GNU-specific.
2013-07-18 13:10 <whitequark> oh I see
2013-07-18 13:10 <larsc> whitequark: man man
2013-07-18 13:10 <whitequark> it's confusing
2013-07-18 13:11 <rozzin1> If you specifically want the *POSIX* manual for library calls, you need to look in section 3p.
2013-07-18 13:11 <rozzin1> Some of the pages in 3 are `inherited' from 3p where there's no reason to have a GNU- or Linux-specific page.
2013-07-18 13:12 <whitequark> I see
2013-07-18 13:12 <whitequark> thanks for explanation
2013-07-18 13:12 <whitequark> larsc: that also doesn't mention 3p :p
2013-07-18 13:13 <rozzin1> The 2-vs-3 `kernel vs. library' distinction is much clearer in some man pages than others, e.g.:
2013-07-18 13:15 <wpwrak> the 2/3 distinction isn't all that useful, except maybe if you're developing a libc. and then i wouldn't be so sure whether 2/3 follows the actual implementation or just history
2013-07-18 13:16 <wpwrak> for compatibility, you really need to look at what the man page says. there are also many extensions that go beyond posix. and of course, no all man page tell the whole truth :)
2013-07-18 13:16 <rozzin1> Hrm. I'm actually having a hard time finding a good 2/3 example.
2013-07-18 13:16 <whitequark> rozzin1: :D
2013-07-18 13:17 <rozzin1> I had one just the other day, though--I swear :p
2013-07-18 13:17 <wpwrak> so if you really want to be sure, you start from the official posix documentation
2013-07-18 13:17 <rozzin1> It's easier to find 3/3p examples, like "man 3 basename" vs. "man 3p basename".
2013-07-18 13:17 <whitequark> you know how I feel about this?  (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
2013-07-18 13:18 <rozzin1> I work with a bunch of people who build on Mac OS.
2013-07-18 13:18 <wpwrak> that looked a little odd. where those three faces ?
2013-07-18 13:18 <larsc> I don't even have 3p
2013-07-18 13:18 <larsc> wpwrak: one face and a table
2013-07-18 13:18 <larsc> don't you do unicode?
2013-07-18 13:18 <whitequark> wpwrak: "table flip"
2013-07-18 13:19 <whitequark> the ╯︵ is his left hand and a "swoosh", ┻━┻ is an upside-down table
2013-07-18 13:20 <whitequark> by itself, flipping table is an iconic symbol in Japanese media, much like facepalm is for Western one
2013-07-18 13:20 <whitequark> (why do I even know all that stuff)
2013-07-18 13:21 <wpwrak> i see the table. but what's supposed to be the face doesn't look very face-ish. maybe i don't have the right cyrillic fonts installed :)
2013-07-18 13:21 <wpwrak> or japanese fonts :)
2013-07-18 13:21 <whitequark> http://imgur.com/JU2QR9t
2013-07-18 13:22 <rozzin1> sanderr_: If you can try it, I'd be really interested it knowing if NanoNote works as an access-point. I'm looking for an `extensible Wi-Fi AP' platform, right now.
2013-07-18 13:22 <wpwrak> so the japanese flip tables ? interesting. and i thought certainly M$ guys throwing chairs were bad.
2013-07-18 13:22 <whitequark> no chairs :D
2013-07-18 13:24 <wpwrak> hmm, that looks actually what i got. i guess i need face recognition 2.0 :)
2013-07-18 13:24 <whitequark> heh
2013-07-18 13:24 <whitequark> ╯ are his raised hands, ° are eyes, and □ is the mouth
2013-07-18 13:24 <whitequark> it's really a completely different style of writing emoticons
2013-07-18 13:26 <larsc> there is also the reverse one: ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
2013-07-18 13:26 <wpwrak> cheek-hand-eye-mouth-cheek-hand-arm. a bit surrealist
2013-07-18 13:27 <wpwrak> ah, the ノ( º _ ºノ) could be hair-cheek-eye-mouth-eye-hair-cheek. that works.
2013-07-18 13:27 <whitequark> wpwrak: now that you mention it...
2013-07-18 13:27 <whitequark> (and yes it's not hairs, it's arms)
2013-07-18 13:28 <wpwrak> strange anatomy :)
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2013-07-18 13:28 <larsc> well it's contrast to the minimalistic ':)'
2013-07-18 13:28 <whitequark> wpwrak: i think it's an attempt to convey perspective
2013-07-18 13:29 <whitequark> as in, he stands 45° wrt/ you
2013-07-18 13:29 <whitequark> think isometric
2013-07-18 13:29 <larsc> the '︵' are movement stripes btw
2013-07-18 13:30 <larsc> to show that the table is moving fast
2013-07-18 13:31 <wpwrak> ah. i begin to see it. still kinda strange that the arms would be attached to the head, but yes, there is a "piggy throwing table" pattern tehre
2013-07-18 13:31 <whitequark> try this fine illustration: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/167/919/38f2f82655cf6ebd5842972e1318b03e.jpg
2013-07-18 13:35 <wpwrak> the moral: don't cheat on your ninja-demon girlfriend
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2013-07-18 13:52 <viric> "Would A Kickstarter Open-Source GPU Work?" Phoronix
2013-07-18 13:54 <whitequark> Betteridge's law of headlines says that the answer is
2013-07-18 13:54 <whitequark> NOPE
2013-07-18 13:55 <whitequark> also: https://twitter.com/YourTitleSucks
2013-07-18 13:56 <wpwrak> "Would a Kick-Open Sourcestarter GPU work " ?
2013-07-18 13:59 <larsc> some company way or may not opensource their verilog gpu
2013-07-18 14:00 <larsc> if they get enough money
2013-07-18 14:07 <wpwrak> some open gpu had been tried several years ago. not sure what happened with it.
2013-07-18 14:09 <viric> yes, I remember some.
2013-07-18 14:09 <viric> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQxMjU that's the post
2013-07-18 14:27 <biot> there's also this one, a thesis project:
2013-07-18 14:27 <biot> https://github.com/maidenone/ORGFXSoC
2013-07-18 14:29 <larsc> with about 1 commit
2013-07-18 14:29 <biot> nah, they worked on it for quite some time, I followed it on G+
2013-07-18 14:29 <biot> it was only after they turned it in that it was submitted to github, opencores etc
2013-07-18 14:32 <larsc> it still looks rather dead
2013-07-18 14:32 <biot> yeah, but then so is that code base the company is pitching to phoronix, no doubt
2013-07-18 14:33 <larsc> yep, probably just want to squeeze out a last few bucks
2013-07-18 14:33 <biot> otherwise they wouldn't be pitching it -- they're just seeing if there's any money at all to be made from it still
2013-07-18 14:33 <biot> and quite possibly ORGFXSoC is less advanced than that one
2013-07-18 14:34 <biot> but it does bear asking, why does anyone need to pay via kickstarter to get a basic GPU code base?
2013-07-18 14:40 <viric> they will have to define well what they are going to deliver.
2013-07-18 14:40 <roh> biot: well.. for starters to pay for the year or so of development which needs to happen first
2013-07-18 14:40 <viric> or they won't get much money I guess
2013-07-18 14:41 <roh> and even then a fpga based card will never be worth anything.. atleast outside of development.
2013-07-18 14:41 <roh> much too slow and power hungry while being expensive. bad combination
2013-07-18 14:41 <viric> maybe they don't plan to deliver fpgas
2013-07-18 14:42 <roh> viric: heh.. i dont believe that yet.
2013-07-18 14:42 <roh> the only ones i know which moved trhough fpga to real asics fast were the bitcoin miners. anybody else... nope.
2013-07-18 14:45 <wpwrak> so .. make a gpu that's also good at mining bitcoins :)
2013-07-18 14:46 <roh> i dont make gpus at all. shitty business. annoying customers. no value on quality or stability... booooring.
2013-07-18 14:46 <roh> just gamerkids, nobody serious.
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2013-07-18 14:50 <viric> is anyone delivering asic miners?
2013-07-18 14:50 <viric> I thought there have not been delivers yet
2013-07-18 14:50 <viric> deliveries
2013-07-18 14:50 <roh> they do. but only if you ordered and payed last lear
2013-07-18 14:50 <roh> eh year.
2013-07-18 14:50 <roh> basically all they make is sold in advance
2013-07-18 14:51 <viric> but did they *deliver*?
2013-07-18 14:51 <roh> yes.
2013-07-18 14:51 <roh> limited amounts, but yes.
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2013-07-18 14:52 <biot> you would think if they managed to get an ASIC manufactured, it would be in large amounts
2013-07-18 14:52 <viric> pko
2013-07-18 14:52 <viric> ok
2013-07-18 14:53 <roh> biot: yes and no. for the first few batches you do small amounts to limit the impact of failiure.
2013-07-18 14:53 <roh> making chips is nothing risk free
2013-07-18 14:53 <roh> if you are sure your design is ok, you go into volume
2013-07-18 14:53 <biot> ah right. and are they planning to make more?
2013-07-18 14:54 <roh> sure. but the fabs have lead times of month to years
2013-07-18 14:54 <roh> you are confused by marketing cycles.
2013-07-18 14:54 <roh> real hw development takes years
2013-07-18 14:56 <kyak> thanks guys for 2 vs 3 vs 3p explanation!
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2013-07-18 19:07 <sanderr_> rozzin1: Might take some time until I'm able to try it, I'm on the road at the moment.
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2013-07-18 19:07 <sanderr> rozzin1: But I surely will if I'm at home again.
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2013-07-18 21:17 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Remove all links of an OPK when moved out of the monitored folder (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/dfad7c3
2013-07-18 21:17 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Fix the function that sets the icon of a Link (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/504641a
2013-07-18 21:17 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Change the "GMenu2X starting" message (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/32d100e
2013-07-18 21:17 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Fix translations in user directory not correctly loaded (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/9029dec
2013-07-18 21:40 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Order the links in alphabetical order (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/bcb3e98
2013-07-18 21:53 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Allow an OPK to use an icon provided by the theme (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/91f381f
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