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2013-07-17 04:42 <pcercuei> hi wej
2013-07-17 04:43 <pcercuei> is the path where GMU saves / loads its config modificable?
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2013-07-17 11:27 <whitequark> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/83308/optimizing-a-while-loop
2013-07-17 11:27 <whitequark> ...
2013-07-17 11:28 <whitequark> However, for those of you not familiar with the Pi, it comes with very limited hardware resources (including 512 MB of memory) which can be easily consumed by a [while] loop [in Bash] like the one I'm using.
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2013-07-17 11:51 <whitequark> by the way, an acquaintance of mine recently suggested another reason broadcom could be selling pis at a tiny margin
2013-07-17 11:52 <whitequark> apparently if you have a few thousands of unliquidated chips (or early revisions, or slightly broken ones), it is somehow problematic to just dump them in a landfill
2013-07-17 12:35 <lekernel> didn't they sell millions?
2013-07-17 12:39 <whitequark> "a few thousands" was a figure of speech
2013-07-17 12:39 <whitequark> millions. well, not sure
2013-07-17 12:39 <ysionneau> "can't sell those to real customers, so let's make a false open source design to at least squizz some internet buzz out of it" ?
2013-07-17 12:40 <viric> but pis work, don't they?
2013-07-17 12:40 <ysionneau> maybe they don't work at 85°C :)
2013-07-17 12:40 <viric> ah
2013-07-17 12:40 <ysionneau> or -40
2013-07-17 12:41 <ysionneau> or some part of the chip does not work
2013-07-17 12:41 <ysionneau> maybe it's parts on the sides of the waffers
2013-07-17 12:41 <viric> btw, anyone knows where to find a reasonably priced infrared camera+lamp, for night seeing? usb would be fine.
2013-07-17 12:42 <viric> ysionneau: I've one and it always worked fine, for the limited work I gave.
2013-07-17 12:42 <whitequark> ysionneau: yeah
2013-07-17 12:42 <whitequark> the reason he said that: you know the ODROID thingy?
2013-07-17 12:42 <whitequark> hardkernel.com etc
2013-07-17 12:42 <viric> a friend reported many fails for odroid
2013-07-17 12:42 <whitequark> he worked quite a bit with the devices and it turns out that they indeed ship failed/early batches
2013-07-17 12:42 <whitequark> yeah
2013-07-17 12:42 <viric> for his odroid.
2013-07-17 12:42 <ysionneau> viric: indeed, but you cannot notice that some IP core not routed to the Rpi PCB (so feature not present on the Rpi) is not working
2013-07-17 12:43 <ysionneau> because you simply cannot test it
2013-07-17 12:43 <ysionneau> and you don't care
2013-07-17 12:43 <viric> ysionneau: then it's fine for me. It's the same for two-core, three-core computers
2013-07-17 12:43 <whitequark> lol, someone actually sells three-core cpu?
2013-07-17 12:43 <ysionneau> yep, but they cannot sell the chip to a real customer
2013-07-17 12:43 <viric> original 4-core processors where some core doesn't work
2013-07-17 12:43 <viric> sure
2013-07-17 12:43 <whitequark> viric: yeah I understand how it can be
2013-07-17 12:43 <ysionneau> they can only sell it soldered to some board with a very specific use case
2013-07-17 12:43 <whitequark> but never seen
2013-07-17 12:44 <whitequark> ysionneau: well, celerons *are* dumbed down pentiums after all
2013-07-17 12:44 <viric> There are even bioses that allow *unblocking* those cores
2013-07-17 12:44 <viric> motherboards with that feature. It has a name I can't recall.
2013-07-17 12:44 <viric> some kind of "give the cores back, I don't mind if they don't work"
2013-07-17 12:44 <ysionneau> whitequark: well yes, dividing the production of the same chips into several different parts is common for chip makers
2013-07-17 12:45 <ysionneau> like AEC-Q100 chips, and non-automotive ones
2013-07-17 12:45 <whitequark> yeah, that's generally what is done
2013-07-17 12:45 <ysionneau> AEC-Q100 are just those on the middle of the waffer, or just for some lucky reason pass the temperature tests
2013-07-17 12:45 <viric> http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/Features/Core_Unlocker/
2013-07-17 12:47 <viric> so, for the pi, fine.
2013-07-17 12:47 <whitequark> for programmers who have the true C spirit: "I don't care if it works if it is fast!" :p
2013-07-17 12:47 <viric> yes, on that line :) but with hardware.
2013-07-17 12:48 <viric> Performance boost!
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2013-07-17 14:28 <wpwrak> prolog/lisp: i don't care of it works, as long as the experience is good :)
2013-07-17 14:30 <whitequark> missing the point ;)
2013-07-17 14:31 <whitequark> I only recently talked with a self-described C programmer
2013-07-17 14:31 <whitequark> he had a program which only worked correctly when compiled with -O2 (implying he has really bad UB somewhere)
2013-07-17 14:31 <whitequark> so what he did, could you guess?
2013-07-17 14:31 <whitequark> added "compile with -O2" to README
2013-07-17 14:32 <whitequark> and (in my eyes) this attitude is too prevalent and too harmful. I don't care about minor issues like manual MM vs GC :p
2013-07-17 14:45 <wpwrak> UB = ?
2013-07-17 14:46 <whitequark> undefined behavior
2013-07-17 14:47 <whitequark> overall, that would mean that his program works "correctly" (even if it does) purely by accident, and changing so much as a minor version of GCC would suffice to break it
2013-07-17 14:47 <whitequark> but I'm pretty sure you already know it
2013-07-17 14:49 <wpwrak> seems that he should try, in this order, -Wall, and then valgrind :)
2013-07-17 14:50 <wpwrak> no everything can be caught this way, but a lot
2013-07-17 14:52 <whitequark> wpwrak: oh, sure, or -fsanitize=undefined
2013-07-17 14:52 <whitequark> but the problem is that he doesn't want
2013-07-17 14:52 <whitequark> "yeah, gotta build it with -O2, whatever, I don't care as long as it works"
2013-07-17 14:52 <whitequark> and he defended that even after an explanation of what UB actually is
2013-07-17 14:52 * whitequark sighs
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2013-07-17 14:54 <wpwrak> does he work on embedded controllers for battery management in the boeing dreamliner ? :)
2013-07-17 14:55 <whitequark> no, on cloud storage stuff (I think), and plans to work on OS kernels if I'm not confused
2013-07-17 14:56 <larsc> well as long as it is the Windows kernel I'm fine with that
2013-07-17 14:56 <whitequark> lol
2013-07-17 14:56 <whitequark> windows kernel is actually not that bad
2013-07-17 14:56 <whitequark> something something working async I/O :p
2013-07-17 14:57 <larsc> only speeding up the inevitable
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2013-07-17 17:01 <whitequark> btw wpwrak
2013-07-17 17:02 <whitequark> have you seen Cyclone?
2013-07-17 17:02 <whitequark> that actually seems to have some slim chances you'd even try writing code in it :)
2013-07-17 17:14 <wpwrak> do you think i obsess about pointers ? :)
2013-07-17 17:16 <wpwrak> almost anything that i occasionally do wrong with pointers is easily found by valgrind.
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2013-07-17 17:23 <viric> wpwrak: you should not use heap memory. :)
2013-07-17 17:24 <wpwrak> you prefer arrays ?
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2013-07-17 17:32 <larsc> one big global state struct
2013-07-17 17:35 <viric> for example :)
2013-07-17 17:35 <viric> stack is overrated too.
2013-07-17 17:37 <viric> I should back up luks headers...
2013-07-17 17:38 <viric> larsc: is there any way I can see what my 'kworkers' do?
2013-07-17 17:38 <viric> kwoerker/0:1H for example, does it indicate anything?
2013-07-17 17:38 <larsc> depends on the definition of 'do'
2013-07-17 17:38 <larsc> ;)
2013-07-17 17:38 <viric> hehe
2013-07-17 17:39 <viric> cat /proc/PID/stack?
2013-07-17 17:39 <larsc> no what do you mean by do
2013-07-17 17:39 <larsc> ?
2013-07-17 17:39 <larsc> do you want to know what code they execute
2013-07-17 17:39 <larsc> or when they execute
2013-07-17 17:39 <viric> I see them on 'top'
2013-07-17 17:39 <larsc> yes
2013-07-17 17:40 <viric> does each PID have a specific task? or they pick tasks from queues?
2013-07-17 17:40 <larsc> depends
2013-07-17 17:40 <larsc> e.g. kworker:mmcqueue
2013-07-17 17:40 <larsc> will do mmc card related stuff
2013-07-17 17:40 <larsc> but there are also generic workers which just queue up 'random' things
2013-07-17 17:40 <viric> # cat /proc/4567/stack
2013-07-17 17:40 <viric> [<c002acb4>] msleep+0x24/0x30
2013-07-17 17:40 <viric> [<c040e0e0>] mmc_power_up+0xd0/0xd4
2013-07-17 17:40 <viric> [<c040ef8c>] mmc_rescan+0x29c/0x3a4
2013-07-17 17:40 <viric> ^ this one appears on top often
2013-07-17 17:40 <viric> named "kworker/u:1"
2013-07-17 17:41 <larsc> that's a generic one though
2013-07-17 17:41 <viric> - I don't have any mmc card put in the slot.
2013-07-17 17:41 <larsc> in the kernel there are so called workqueues
2013-07-17 17:41 <larsc> a driver can create a custom workqueue
2013-07-17 17:41 <larsc> but there are also a couple of generic workqueues
2013-07-17 17:41 <larsc> which are usually used
2013-07-17 17:41 <viric> ok
2013-07-17 17:42 <larsc> unless your queue needs like a special priority or something
2013-07-17 17:42 <larsc> the generic queues are basicall first come first served
2013-07-17 17:42 <viric> what is that language of "/u:1" ?
2013-07-17 17:42 <larsc> I don't know, but should be easy to find that out
2013-07-17 17:42 <larsc> 1 is probably cpu 1
2013-07-17 17:43 <larsc> and u mabye unbound
2013-07-17 17:43 <viric> kworker/u:0H, kworker/0:0H, kworker/0:1H, kworker/u:1, ...
2013-07-17 17:43 <viric> ah
2013-07-17 17:43 <viric> and what are "flush-8:0" for?
2013-07-17 17:44 <larsc>     if (pool->cpu >= 0)
2013-07-17 17:44 <larsc>         snprintf(id_buf, sizeof(id_buf), "%d:%d%s", pool->cpu, id,
2013-07-17 17:44 <larsc>              pool->attrs->nice < 0  ? "H" : "");
2013-07-17 17:44 <larsc>         snprintf(id_buf, sizeof(id_buf), "u%d:%d", pool->id, id);
2013-07-17 17:44 <larsc>     else
2013-07-17 17:44 <larsc> for flushing the fs cache
2013-07-17 17:44 <viric> H = high priority, ok. cpu:id.
2013-07-17 17:45 <viric> and u = without cpu assigned.    pool->id vs id, I don't know.
2013-07-17 17:45 <viric> this sheevaplug crypto device isn't performing as I'd expect
2013-07-17 17:48 <larsc> probably not caused by the worker tasks though
2013-07-17 17:49 <viric> oh, Kconfig reads: "Currently the driver supports AES in ECB and CBC mode without DMA."
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2013-07-17 19:52 <Luke-Jr> can anyone recommend a JTAG cable with best free software support?
2013-07-17 19:53 <viric> check openocd.
2013-07-17 19:53 <viric> maybe they tell about jtag adapters
2013-07-17 19:54 <larsc> I'm not sure if I can recommend a FTDI, but usually it works
2013-07-17 19:58 <viric> the sheevaplug has a ftdi jtag thing in it, and it's the only one I've used.
2013-07-17 19:58 <Luke-Jr> hmm
2013-07-17 19:59 <Luke-Jr> I actually wrote a FT232R-based JTAG bitbanging interface.. maybe I can use that somehow
2013-07-17 20:07 <Luke-Jr> hmm, one of these is open hardware
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2013-07-17 20:55 <wpwrak> the Amontec JTAGkey works quite well. ftdi-based.
2013-07-17 20:55 <wpwrak> similarly, the famous openmoko debug board is quite nice. also brings out serial and has a built-in usb hub. there, you even get the schematics.
2013-07-17 20:56 <larsc> if you have enough spare flex cables
2013-07-17 20:56 <wpwrak> drawback of the openmoko board: you need to add the headers for the cable yourself.
2013-07-17 20:56 <wpwrak> larsc: and a gta01 or gta02 :-)
2013-07-17 20:57 <larsc> those I have, a flexcable not anymore
2013-07-17 20:57 <wpwrak> and then there's of course the famous ubb-jtag :-) http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/jtag/
2013-07-17 20:58 <wpwrak> all you need for that is one UBB, a few minutes of soldering, and a ben nanonote :)
2013-07-17 20:58 <wpwrak> (well, and resistors, cables, whatever connector plugs into the other side. the usual "small parts")
2013-07-17 20:59 <wpwrak> larsc: yeah, they're basically consumables :)
2013-07-17 21:00 <wpwrak> the connector on the debug board as well. the gta0x side is fairly robust, though.
2013-07-17 21:00 <wpwrak> larsc: of course, real men (tm) use this: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/idbg/
2013-07-17 21:01 <Luke-Jr> hmm, the nanonote thing leaves most pins unconnected?
2013-07-17 21:02 <Luke-Jr> I'm talking to an AVR32, but I'd like to have something I can use for any purpose
2013-07-17 21:02 <Luke-Jr> if I can justify buying a Nanonote, that'd be neat ;)
2013-07-17 21:02 <Luke-Jr> I do have some GTA0x here somewhere
2013-07-17 21:04 <wpwrak> the nanonote critter connects everything a xilinx fpga needs. not all devices are happy with so little, though. but then you still have two spare pins (in the xilinx layout). i could have added a serial console on them :)
2013-07-17 21:05 <Luke-Jr> hmm, https://sharism.cc/ is down? :/
2013-07-17 21:06 <wpwrak> the ubb-jtag wasn't really meant to be a "real" solution. more a proof of concept. but of course, if you need only low speed, it works just fine. and you could always make an optimized driver that would then be MUCH faster than the /sys/class/gpio-based one that proof of concept uses.
2013-07-17 21:06 <wpwrak> http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2013-January/009988.html
2013-07-17 21:07 <wpwrak> i think sharism.cc if dead for good. but try pulster.eu
2013-07-17 21:10 <Luke-Jr> any idea how many volts the openmoko debug board uses for JTAG? or can it autodetect?
2013-07-17 21:11 <Luke-Jr> …assuming I can still buy one of these somewhere :/
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2013-07-17 21:58 <wpwrak> the openmoko board is 3.3 V, no autodetect
2013-07-17 22:02 <Luke-Jr> also seems I'd have to pay $50 + import customs to get it "gratis" from some german store
2013-07-17 22:02 <Luke-Jr> :/
2013-07-17 22:03 <Luke-Jr> wish I could just build one of the open hardware ones, but apparently chips will burn out if I try to solder them normally? :?
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2013-07-17 22:30 <wpwrak> oh, interesting twist :) maybe mail him and ask if he sells them "normally" as well. and yes, customs always want their share :)
2013-07-17 22:30 <wpwrak> and no, if you solder chips normally, they don't burn out :)
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2013-07-17 23:03 <nutt> hey anyone, I just replaced a touchpad assembly for an hp pavilion dv6 laptop and had it up and running after replacing it for a couple hours. Then I rebooted to install updates and now it can't boot
2013-07-17 23:03 <nutt> I tried the recovery disc and it can't find an os
2013-07-17 23:03 <nutt> any ideas?
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2013-07-17 23:39 <Luke-Jr> wpwrak: well, the $50 is shipping to USA and bank wire fee - so non-gratis would just be additional on top of it :/
2013-07-17 23:40 <Luke-Jr> wpwrak: is the solder thing something that has changed over the years? my father apparently had to stop using chips entirely when they stopped doing sockets, because of this; maybe at some point chips began to be more heat-tolerant?
2013-07-17 23:42 <roh> more? nah
2013-07-17 23:42 <roh> the only reason for solderchanges recent years was ROHS... basically a systematic ban on some metals like lead where possible
2013-07-17 23:43 <roh> but thats industry-wide.. all consumer stuff. there are extemtions for some telco and network equipment also.
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2013-07-17 23:44 <roh> the moko debugboard is a quite basic ftdi2232 application. you can also solder one yourself. just keep all leads short and dont forget the proper caps ;)
2013-07-17 23:44 <roh> amontec also has similar boards (also in simplicity)
2013-07-17 23:45 <roh> http://www.amontec.com/jtagkey-tiny.shtml is quite similar if not identical pinout (for the jtag part, no serial output there)
2013-07-17 23:47 <Luke-Jr> roh: well, I mean changes to the chips so they don't burn out as easily
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2013-07-17 23:47 <Luke-Jr> the pinout of the moko debug board is actually wrong for me - I just prefer to get open hardware even if I can't build it myself >_<
2013-07-17 23:49 <roh> Luke-Jr: well.. wrong pinout in what way? for jtag?
2013-07-17 23:49 <roh> its standard 20pin arm afaik
2013-07-17 23:49 <Luke-Jr> roh: yes, my board has the 10pin design
2013-07-17 23:49 <roh> hm. and you also need some support in openocd afaik
2013-07-17 23:50 <roh> if not there yet
2013-07-17 23:50 <Luke-Jr> I think OpenOCD already supports AVR32
2013-07-17 23:50 <roh> or whatever you want to use as gdbserver<->jtag connector
2013-07-17 23:50 <roh> nice
2013-07-17 23:50 <Luke-Jr> if not, I'll ignore it and write my own firmware upload thing
2013-07-17 23:50 <Luke-Jr> <.<
2013-07-17 23:50 <Luke-Jr> or port it
2013-07-17 23:51 * Luke-Jr can handle software, just not hardware ☺
2013-07-17 23:51 <roh> hmmm..  i guess soldering an adapter for 20pin arm to avr32 jtag would be easier
2013-07-17 23:51 <Luke-Jr> there seem to be 3-5 options for open hardware, just nobody selling them in the USA premade :/
2013-07-17 23:52 <roh> eheh...
2013-07-17 23:53 <roh> http://amtek.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/make-your-own-avr-jtag-debugger/ ?
2013-07-17 23:53 <roh> seems doable even for beginners. simple one-sided board. if somebody with a clue helps a bit it can be even done with kitchen-table etching
2013-07-17 23:55 <Luke-Jr> roh: not sure the interface is open (closed firmware) :/
2013-07-17 23:55 <Luke-Jr> so I may not have any way to use it
2013-07-17 23:56 <Luke-Jr> "To test if the board is working you’ll have to give 5V to the board by connecting a 10pin cable to one of the headers(JTAG or AVR ISP). Make sure you use a regulated 5V source or you might damage your USB port."
2013-07-17 23:56 <Luke-Jr> huh? why not just use the USB power? :/
2013-07-17 23:56 <roh> or just buy a jtag-ice on ebay.. there is open sw on the pc afaik. the firmware is flashed onto the device
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2013-07-17 23:57 <Luke-Jr> hmm, ebay
2013-07-17 23:58 <roh> i just heard from my 'off' that i should just use the jtag-ice in that box... hrrr.. i like this hackerspace
2013-07-17 23:58 <roh> just no pic programmer around.
2013-07-17 23:59 <Luke-Jr> ?
2013-07-17 23:59 <roh> i just soldered a GPIB interface and need to flash the fw