2013-07-15 00:01 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 00:02 _ffio_ has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 00:03 ffio_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2013-07-15 00:25 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 00:33 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 00:53 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 00:59 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 01:14 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2013-07-15 01:20 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 01:22 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 01:28 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2013-07-15 01:29 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-07-15 01:31 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 01:38 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 01:40 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-07-15 01:45 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 01:55 porchao has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
2013-07-15 01:59 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 02:00 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 02:07 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2013-07-15 02:18 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 02:18 sivoais has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2013-07-15 03:21 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-07-15 03:23 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 04:28 emeb has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 04:50 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 04:55 dandon_ has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 04:55 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-07-15 04:56 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-07-15 04:56 dandon_ is now known as dandon
2013-07-15 04:56 _ffio_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 05:02 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 05:10 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 05:14 wej has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 05:15 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 05:20 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2013-07-15 05:39 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 05:44 Luke-Jr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-07-15 05:45 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 05:50 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-07-15 05:56 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 05:58 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 06:03 valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2013-07-15 06:04 arossdotme has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-07-15 06:06 sivoais has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-07-15 06:06 emeb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2013-07-15 06:10 valhalla has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 06:16 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 06:20 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 06:27 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 06:31 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 06:48 arossdotme has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 07:02 zear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2013-07-15 07:03 zear has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 07:17 wej_ has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 07:21 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-07-15 07:27 dlan^ has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 08:04 ffio has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-07-15 08:12 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 08:17 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 08:19 ffio has quit [Client Quit]
2013-07-15 08:23 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 08:27 kuribas has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 09:47 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2013-07-15 09:51 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 09:56 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 10:00 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 10:06 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 10:13 porchao has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 10:33 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 10:48 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 11:10 dlan^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2013-07-15 11:33 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 11:35 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 12:20 unclouded has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2013-07-15 12:47 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-07-15 12:54 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 13:21 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2013-07-15 13:21 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-07-15 13:43 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 13:51 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 14:03 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 14:11 Luke-Jr has quit [Excess Flood]
2013-07-15 14:12 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 14:14 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 14:27 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 14:31 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 14:35 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 14:36 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2013-07-15 14:48 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 14:57 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 15:18 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 15:32 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 15:37 emeb has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 15:37 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 15:46 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 15:47 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 15:51 ffio has quit [Client Quit]
2013-07-15 15:59 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 15:59 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 16:03 ffio_ has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 16:05 ffio has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 16:13 kilae has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 16:20 ffio_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 16:28 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2013-07-15 16:33 wej has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 16:35 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 16:36 wej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2013-07-15 16:38 ffio has quit [Client Quit]
2013-07-15 16:46 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2013-07-15 16:47 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 16:52 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 17:06 <kristianpaul> evening? :)
2013-07-15 17:06 <viric> hello
2013-07-15 17:07 <viric> is there any linux setting that may avoid access to kernel memory even for the root user? No /dev/mem, no /proc/kcore, ... can it be configured that way?
2013-07-15 17:07 <viric> (I wonder if that may disable knowing dmcrypt keys even to someone having root access)
2013-07-15 17:09 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 17:10 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 17:10 <whitequark> viric: I think yes
2013-07-15 17:10 <viric> /dev/mem and /proc/kcore may be enough?
2013-07-15 17:10 <whitequark> there's that secure boot thingy
2013-07-15 17:10 <viric> ah. any pointer?
2013-07-15 17:11 <whitequark> and it mandates disabling all access to kernel memory for the user. the write one, at least, but I'd guess it will disable read access as well (keys ?)
2013-07-15 17:11 <whitequark> hm
2013-07-15 17:11 <whitequark> I think it works by making root non-root with selinux
2013-07-15 17:11 <whitequark> and, generally, selinux can do that
2013-07-15 17:11 <viric> uh, that's too hard-way for my taste.
2013-07-15 17:11 <whitequark> lol
2013-07-15 17:11 <viric> If it were only /dev/mem and /proc/kcore, it'd be much easier :)
2013-07-15 17:12 <viric> how would root read the kernel memory without /dev/mem or /proc/kcore ?
2013-07-15 17:14 <whitequark> load a module
2013-07-15 17:15 <whitequark> exploit some privileged API, which are usually less well-tested than non-privileged one
2013-07-15 17:16 <whitequark> eg direct rendering stuff
2013-07-15 17:18 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2013-07-15 17:20 <viric> ah the modules, yes. I forgot about modules.
2013-07-15 17:20 <viric> ok. I was too naive :)
2013-07-15 17:41 <kyak> disable module loading
2013-07-15 17:42 <viric> and dri, etc.
2013-07-15 17:51 <roh> kyak: doesnt help.
2013-07-15 17:53 <whitequark> viric: how does an attacker get root on your system?
2013-07-15 17:54 <whitequark> physical access?
2013-07-15 17:54 <viric> could be.
2013-07-15 17:54 <viric> stealing a powered on computer.
2013-07-15 17:55 <whitequark> what computer it is?
2013-07-15 17:56 <viric> a laptop
2013-07-15 17:56 <whitequark> does it have firewire/mini-pci/mini-pcie ports?
2013-07-15 17:56 <whitequark> thunderbolt (cough)
2013-07-15 17:57 <whitequark> does it have replaceable memory sticks?
2013-07-15 17:57 <whitequark> if the answer to either of those is "yes", you're screwed either way
2013-07-15 17:57 <viric> :)
2013-07-15 17:57 <viric> yes
2013-07-15 17:58 <viric> in any case it'd be some kind of targetted attack, if someone wants to get my dmcrypt key :)
2013-07-15 17:58 * whitequark nods
2013-07-15 17:58 <whitequark> and you miss a crucial point
2013-07-15 17:58 <mog> i thought if you have more memory then the dma space that isnt a problem any more?
2013-07-15 17:58 <whitequark> if someone needs your key, it's far easier to steal *you* and beat with something steel-y and heavey
2013-07-15 17:59 <whitequark> until you tell it
2013-07-15 17:59 <whitequark> mog: eh, not really
2013-07-15 17:59 <viric> whitequark: yes, the iron up the ass
2013-07-15 17:59 <whitequark> viric: are you sure you're not russian? :D
2013-07-15 17:59 <viric> whitequark: what's the correct term на русском? :)
2013-07-15 17:59 emeb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2013-07-15 17:59 <whitequark> yes yes, iron. soldering iron to be specific
2013-07-15 17:59 <whitequark> mog: you'd input the key at early boot
2013-07-15 18:00 <whitequark> so chances that the block with it is allocated in low 4G of RAM are very high
2013-07-15 18:00 <viric> did you see this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10177765/Travellers-mobile-phone-data-seized-by-police-at-border.htm
2013-07-15 18:00 <whitequark> *enter
2013-07-15 18:00 <whitequark> yes
2013-07-15 18:00 <whitequark> those guys don't have a clue
2013-07-15 18:00 <viric> the press people?
2013-07-15 18:00 <whitequark> no, the police ones. they use some pre-made software which just uses pre-existing backdoors or built-in capabilities
2013-07-15 18:01 <whitequark> any kind of custom security will mean they either do nothing, or create you personally more problems
2013-07-15 18:01 ffio has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1]
2013-07-15 18:01 <whitequark> (yes, dm-crypt on a laptop counts as "custom")
2013-07-15 18:01 <viric> yes.
2013-07-15 18:02 <whitequark> besides, can't you just turn it off :D
2013-07-15 18:02 <viric> but it's specially annoying the law things about that
2013-07-15 18:02 <whitequark> eh
2013-07-15 18:02 <whitequark> schlaw
2013-07-15 18:02 <viric> well, encryption is a mean to quicker self-destruction
2013-07-15 18:02 <viric> to avoid the soldering iron attack
2013-07-15 18:02 <whitequark> what's more important to you: your data or your well-being?
2013-07-15 18:03 <viric> :)
2013-07-15 18:03 <whitequark> and that is a valid question with different answers in different cases, srsly
2013-07-15 18:03 <viric> well, I should be able to tell that the laptop wasn't working, or so.
2013-07-15 18:03 <whitequark> but I myself would just clean the laptop blank
2013-07-15 18:03 <viric> if not, bad. :)
2013-07-15 18:04 <viric> clean the laptop when?
2013-07-15 18:04 <whitequark> before crossing a border
2013-07-15 18:04 <viric> ah ok
2013-07-15 18:04 <viric> yes, airports are very frightening places.
2013-07-15 18:04 <viric> I could have a 'travelling laptop', not my usual one.
2013-07-15 18:05 <viric> whitequark: same with the phone?
2013-07-15 18:05 <whitequark> viric: yeah
2013-07-15 18:05 <whitequark> re data erasure
2013-07-15 18:06 <whitequark> you can send an SSD a TRIM 0:$capacity command in a millisecond
2013-07-15 18:06 <whitequark> ofcourse it won't get erased immediately, but I would be really eager to look at any working method of data extraction in such case
2013-07-15 18:07 <whitequark> imo, that's still all too theoretical
2013-07-15 18:07 <whitequark> it's not hard to defend yourself from a wide-range attack, and if you're targeted personally, you're *really fucked*
2013-07-15 18:08 <whitequark> encryption would be your least concern
2013-07-15 18:08 <whitequark> I think the most interesting case for strong crypto is a narrow-range attack. say you're a CEO (or a Boeing engineer, etc). you probably carry some interesting stuff, but no one is going after you personally
2013-07-15 18:08 <whitequark> i.e. it's opportunistic
2013-07-15 18:44 <viric> Yes.
2013-07-15 18:44 <viric> even not being a CEO, if someone steals my disks, I'd feel better if they were encrypted.
2013-07-15 18:44 * whitequark nods
2013-07-15 18:45 <viric> so that's the main purpose. and in some kind of targetted attacks, that can also help
2013-07-15 18:45 <viric> only some kind :)
2013-07-15 18:45 <whitequark> such as?
2013-07-15 18:52 ffio has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 18:53 <viric> maybe some dumb acquaintance, that wants to annoy me
2013-07-15 18:55 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 18:56 <whitequark> right
2013-07-15 19:01 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-07-15 19:22 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 20:09 LunaVorax has quit [Quit: Quitte]
2013-07-15 20:10 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 20:18 kilae has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]]
2013-07-15 20:41 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-07-15 21:03 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 21:22 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2013-07-15 21:27 viric has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 21:29 lekernel has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2013-07-15 21:31 unclouded has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 21:36 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-07-15 21:36 kuribas has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]
2013-07-15 21:37 wej has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 22:21 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-07-15 22:31 wej has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 22:37 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-07-15 22:40 wej has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 22:43 porchao has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
2013-07-15 22:45 jekhor has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
2013-07-15 23:14 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 23:15 emeb has joined #qi-hardware
2013-07-15 23:47 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2013-07-15 23:50 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]