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2013-06-09 10:37 <Fallenou> viric_: I was told NetBSD could run on 16 MB of SDRAM
2013-06-09 10:42 <yang> Fallenou: maybe even less, as it can run on many vintage machines
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2013-06-09 12:01 <mth> larsc: I think the pwm driver isn't ready to be shared between SoCs
2013-06-09 12:01 <mth> since it is neither fully in control of the registers it uses (unlike the OHCI driver)...
2013-06-09 12:01 <mth> ...nor is it using fully generalized interfaces (like GPIO)
2013-06-09 12:02 <mth> pwm is basically gpio + timer, and the timer code is SoC specific at the moment
2013-06-09 12:02 <mth> although I don't think it has to be, since the registers are the same
2013-06-09 12:03 <mth> (a few regs and bits within regs were added in the 4770, but all the 4740 regs and bits are still there)
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2013-06-09 12:06 <mth> since the timers are used for non-pwm use cases as well, putting the pwm driver in full control over the registers is not an option
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2013-06-09 12:47 <viric_> Fallenou: I thought of netbsd... but I'm not sure how to deploy to the device easily :)
2013-06-09 12:49 <Fallenou> is there a NetBSD port of your SoC ?
2013-06-09 12:50 <viric_> time to check
2013-06-09 12:50 <viric_> but I've 4MB of flash
2013-06-09 12:51 <viric_> it's a broadcom small mips
2013-06-09 12:51 <viric_> system type             : bcm63xx/96348GW-11 (0x6348/0x00B0)
2013-06-09 12:51 <viric_> cpu model               : Broadcom BCM6348 V0.7
2013-06-09 12:52 <viric_> I can't find anything similar in http://netbsd.org/ports/
2013-06-09 12:53 <Fallenou> hum that's a MIPS32 cpu
2013-06-09 12:55 <Fallenou> the only thing that matches "broadcom" and "mips" in netbsd ports is : sbmips: http://www.netbsd.org/ports/sbmips/
2013-06-09 12:56 <Fallenou> but it's not BCM6348 ...
2013-06-09 12:56 <Fallenou> so I guess to get NetBSD running on your board you need some porting effort ^^
2013-06-09 13:00 <wpwrak> mth: put the timer code in charge of allocating timers and make pwm depend on it ?
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2013-06-09 13:10 <viric_> Fallenou: complicated.
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2013-06-09 13:11 <Fallenou> viric_: yes I suppose :/
2013-06-09 13:11 <viric_> I'll stay with an openwrt backfire.
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2013-06-09 13:17 <mth> wpwrak: that is already the case, but the timer code is under arch/mips/jz4740 at the moment
2013-06-09 13:18 <mth> ...which won't get compiled when building for jz4770 only
2013-06-09 13:18 <mth> and having functions with the same name for both SoCs works when compiling for one at a time, but afaik larsc's long term goal is to be able to build one kernel that supports both
2013-06-09 13:20 <larsc> mth: yes the whole timer code should probably be shared
2013-06-09 13:20 <larsc> in my opinion the jz4770 should also go into arch/mips/mach-jz4740
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2013-06-09 14:01 <wpwrak> sigh. projects is down AGAIN :-(
2013-06-09 14:01 <larsc> the hoster got hacked pretty badly, maybe that's the cause
2013-06-09 14:02 <wpwrak> hmm yes, i read about that. well, let's see.
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2013-06-09 14:34 <viric_> what hoster?
2013-06-09 14:35 <wpwrak> hetzner
2013-06-09 14:36 <viric_> I don't know it.
2013-06-09 14:36 <wpwrak> viric_: in case you enjoy reading german: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Hetzner-gehackt-Kundendaten-kopiert-1884180.html
2013-06-09 14:37 <viric_> I saw the word proftpd
2013-06-09 14:37 <viric_> isn't proftpd the 1st entry point of most hackers since 20 years ago? :)
2013-06-09 14:37 <viric_> I remember installing some linux 15 years ago, and it warning me about the security of proftpd
2013-06-09 14:40 <wpwrak> seems they used an exploit in nagios, then manipulated other services, potentially including proftpd
2013-06-09 14:41 <wpwrak> and yes, ftp security has been sort of a running joke for as long as i can remember
2013-06-09 14:43 <wpwrak> i was just about to say that a reverse filegive would be nice to help more people avoid ftp. then i saw that you already implemented that :)
2013-06-09 14:43 <viric_> :)
2013-06-09 14:43 <wpwrak> now all you need to do is port it to a language people actually use :)
2013-06-09 14:43 <viric_> people don't have to see the language
2013-06-09 14:43 <wpwrak> well, they still need to put it on their system before they can use the critter, no ?
2013-06-09 14:44 <viric_> well, you need the compiler if you want to compile it
2013-06-09 14:44 <viric_> but there are packagers around the world doing that task for the most.
2013-06-09 14:45 <viric_> and for windows I give a precompiled binary.
2013-06-09 14:45 <wpwrak> when i click on "download", all i see it a tar.gz. and apt-get doesn't know about filegive. so ...
2013-06-09 14:46 <wpwrak> "The site's security certificate is not trusted!" heh :)
2013-06-09 14:46 <viric_> complain to your distribution managers
2013-06-09 14:46 <viric_> ;)
2013-06-09 14:47 <viric_> did anyone package go? if so, it should be fairly easy to build.
2013-06-09 14:47 <viric_> For me go means 1) easy to type, 2) portable enough and 3) easy to audi
2013-06-09 14:47 <viric_> t
2013-06-09 14:47 <wpwrak> there's a "GNU Go" in ubuntu
2013-06-09 14:48 <viric_> that may be the gccgo
2013-06-09 14:48 <wpwrak> yup
2013-06-09 14:48 <viric_> it's a bit harder to build with gccgo. I don't provide a makefile for it.
2013-06-09 14:48 <viric_> complain one more time to your distribution managers
2013-06-09 14:48 <viric_> :)
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2013-06-09 14:49 <wpwrak> you provide no makefile at all ...
2013-06-09 14:49 <wpwrak> or a README for that matter
2013-06-09 14:50 <wpwrak> or any other sort of build instructions for an environment people commonly use
2013-06-09 14:50 <viric_> doc/home.wiki (so, the web page) has the build instructions
2013-06-09 14:50 <viric_> at the end
2013-06-09 14:51 <viric_> I could provide something more gnuish, or a README. I will. :)
2013-06-09 14:52 <wpwrak> do you intentionally try to keep it out of people's hands ? :)
2013-06-09 14:52 <wpwrak> like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG1BzDWga1Q
2013-06-09 14:52 <viric_> yes ;)
2013-06-09 14:55 <viric_> I added a README
2013-06-09 14:58 <wpwrak> is http://freecode.com/projects/filegive the project home ? i don't see a link to the repository, only the tarball download
2013-06-09 15:01 <viric_> the home page
2013-06-09 15:01 <viric_> it's the vcs
2013-06-09 15:01 <viric_> see Timeline links, etc.
2013-06-09 15:02 <wpwrak> the home page is the vcs ?
2013-06-09 15:03 <wpwrak> you mean you don't use a vcs but maintain some meta-information manually (and with tarball snapshots)
2013-06-09 15:03 <wpwrak> basically they way things were done in the 1990es
2013-06-09 15:04 <wpwrak> well, "often done". cvs and friends predate that, of course
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2013-06-09 16:55 <roh_> nat-pmp? upnp? bwahahahha
2013-06-09 16:56 roh_ is now known as roh
2013-06-09 16:56 <viric_> wpwrak: I use fossil
2013-06-09 16:56 <viric_> wpwrak: which, by name, sounds a pretty old thing :)
2013-06-09 16:57 * roh uses xmpp and things like rsync, ssh and ncp for transferring files
2013-06-09 16:58 <roh> wpwrak: you really aren't in luck with project hosting ;)
2013-06-09 16:58 <viric_> what is ncp?
2013-06-09 16:59 <roh> http://www.fefe.de/ncp/
2013-06-09 16:59 <viric_> dankon
2013-06-09 16:59 <roh> brutal fast. no crypto. for crypto.. combinations on the rest
2013-06-09 17:00 <viric_> ah, multicast.
2013-06-09 17:00 <roh> ncp is nice for stuff where one needs bulk data in the lan and is lazy
2013-06-09 17:00 <viric_> I've been these days trying to understand multicast. :)
2013-06-09 17:00 <viric_> (through routers, mainly)
2013-06-09 17:00 <roh> like trowing files into the air, and 'somebody' catching it
2013-06-09 17:00 <viric_> can multicast traverse internet at all?
2013-06-09 17:00 <roh> sure. if you want
2013-06-09 17:01 <viric_> without tunneling?
2013-06-09 17:01 <roh> in reality, people dont do.
2013-06-09 17:01 <viric_> May I subscribe to any multicast group and see if someone is sending?
2013-06-09 17:01 <roh> but it does unicast as well.. so if you can connect to sth. you can use it (need to add an ip tho)
2013-06-09 17:01 <roh> its a specific one i think, but yes.
2013-06-09 17:01 <viric_> understood about ncp
2013-06-09 17:01 <viric_> I mean about multicast in general
2013-06-09 17:01 <viric_> Is anyone using multicast through internet?
2013-06-09 17:02 <roh> most carriers filter or do not route it
2013-06-09 17:02 <viric_> do any route it?
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2013-06-09 17:02 <viric_> I'd like to know some certain data about multicast. All I get from websites is rumours :)
2013-06-09 17:02 <wpwrak> roh: (hosting) well, all the new stuff goes to github ...
2013-06-09 17:03 <roh> dunno.. need to ask. i dont know any consumer carriers which 'just do it' .. i think some of the tv stuff on vdsl is done by mcast.. but thats limited again
2013-06-09 17:03 <roh> wpwrak: doesnt solve it either. got hacked /downed before.
2013-06-09 17:03 <wpwrak> roh: well, i don't mind if it's down sometimes. i'm used to that sort of thing. what's troublesome is when it's down most of the time.
2013-06-09 17:04 <roh> wpwrak: from my pov its just a repo-mirror. development needs more that such kids toys
2013-06-09 17:05 <wpwrak> roh: well, a nicely working git is a good start. i think you can also have a wiki there, no ? that leaves mailing list, IRC, and generic webspace (files)
2013-06-09 17:05 <roh> wpwrak: there are 'some' tools.,.. but they re much too basic for serious work from my pov.
2013-06-09 17:05 <viric_> roh: is that through internet at all?
2013-06-09 17:06 <roh> and its so slow
2013-06-09 17:06 <viric_> (tv mcast)
2013-06-09 17:06 <roh> viric_: depends on what internet is for you? its all ip. so yes.
2013-06-09 17:06 <viric_> wpwrak: you surrender?
2013-06-09 17:06 <roh> but its the carriers managed mcast system. there is no worldwide mcast i know of
2013-06-09 17:06 <viric_> roh: internet is where the public ips are interchanging packets. :)
2013-06-09 17:06 <roh> worldwide as in 'just routed'
2013-06-09 17:06 <wpwrak> roh: so you'd rather pick sourceforge, which has pretty much everything you could wish for, in more or less usable shape ?
2013-06-09 17:07 <viric_> roh: ok, I meant this worldwide thing.
2013-06-09 17:07 <wpwrak> i've heard even yahoo has many goodies :)
2013-06-09 17:07 <roh> viric_: dream on. its a web of capitaliest crazies. there is no neutrality for packets
2013-06-09 17:07 <wpwrak> (mcast) you can always set up tunnels ...
2013-06-09 17:07 <roh> wpwrak: no. i host services if i want to have them.
2013-06-09 17:07 <viric_> roh: I didn't talk about neutrality
2013-06-09 17:07 <viric_> wpwrak: yes, I guess it's what everyone does. tunneling
2013-06-09 17:07 <roh> wpwrak: no money, no working services.
2013-06-09 17:08 <wpwrak> roh: i host my own webspace. that's enough admin work for my taste :)
2013-06-09 17:08 <roh> wpwrak: on all those who do not take money i am not the user. i am the product.
2013-06-09 17:08 <viric_> roh: cheap or expensive?
2013-06-09 17:08 <viric_> :)
2013-06-09 17:08 <roh> most people do not realize that. i do. so i dont use services where i have better replacements myself
2013-06-09 17:08 <roh> viric_: ?
2013-06-09 17:08 <viric_> 'the product'
2013-06-09 17:09 <wpwrak> github doesn't seem too intrusive. they basically want people to get used to their platform, then switch to paid service for things that are non-open
2013-06-09 17:09 <wpwrak> sounds like a fair enough deal to me
2013-06-09 17:09 <roh> viric_: doesnt matter if cheap or expensive. you dont pay, you become the product.
2013-06-09 17:09 <roh> no warranties for anything.
2013-06-09 17:09 <viric_> roh: I meant if you, the product, are cheap or expensive ;)
2013-06-09 17:10 <roh> viric_: i meant that in general. if you use github YOU are THEIR product.
2013-06-09 17:10 <roh> they sell you to their investors.
2013-06-09 17:10 <viric_> guess your price
2013-06-09 17:10 <viric_> :)
2013-06-09 17:10 <roh> in what way differs.
2013-06-09 17:10 <viric_> I'm just joking
2013-06-09 17:10 <viric_> I end up doing that too, hosting all I can
2013-06-09 17:10 <roh> viric_: its not about amount. i know these bullshit-calculations from oloh... duuuh.. we're not 14 anymore.
2013-06-09 17:11 <viric_> But I don't do it the hard way (setting up ruby on rails or anything fancy). I keep my feet on ground :)
2013-06-09 17:11 <roh> hosting isnt the issue at all. or maintainting shit. its people realizing that there isnt anything for free.
2013-06-09 17:11 <viric_> roh: you could play being more clever than they
2013-06-09 17:11 <roh> it can be accounted flat. but thats as good as it gets.
2013-06-09 17:11 <viric_> tricking.
2013-06-09 17:11 <viric_> some people like that.
2013-06-09 17:11 <viric_> I'm lazy for that.
2013-06-09 17:11 <viric_> roh: what do you think of mega?
2013-06-09 17:12 <roh> just another bullshitter
2013-06-09 17:12 <viric_> haha
2013-06-09 17:12 <viric_> What's bad there? not good enough ciphering?
2013-06-09 17:12 <roh> well.. i am not against things like github. but they are too big, and thus primary target.
2013-06-09 17:12 <roh> viric_: their service isnt anything i have any use for at all
2013-06-09 17:12 <viric_> cooling down...
2013-06-09 17:13 <viric_> roh: hm similar happens to me. But for some people, they may find it quite useful
2013-06-09 17:13 <roh> github has a ok service. but well..  its not free at all.
2013-06-09 17:13 <viric_> it sounds like an easy place where to have at least one backup copy
2013-06-09 17:13 <roh> if you are a company.. either pay somebody for hosting/maintaining shit or you pay github
2013-06-09 17:13 <roh> viric_: bwahahaha
2013-06-09 17:13 <viric_> bwaaaahahaha :D
2013-06-09 17:13 <roh> backups are something on a physical disk you have in your hand.
2013-06-09 17:14 <roh> which you lock in a safe. not bullshit in some cloud.
2013-06-09 17:14 <roh> raid is not backup also
2013-06-09 17:14 <viric_> I feel like I should do the turing test with you
2013-06-09 17:14 <viric_> ;)
2013-06-09 17:15 <roh> you should believe in less marketing.
2013-06-09 17:15 <viric_> some play that game well.
2013-06-09 17:15 <roh> everybody cooks with water. and even some of the most visible out there have dirty water in their pots
2013-06-09 17:15 <wpwrak> there are very few guarantees in this world :)
2013-06-09 17:15 <viric_> the rules are set, you can tricky play them
2013-06-09 17:15 <roh> marketing always lies
2013-06-09 17:16 <roh> well.. i gotta run.. bbl
2013-06-09 17:16 <viric_> the backup being *only* something on a physical disk you have in your hand.... sounds like it's not a very good backup :)
2013-06-09 17:16 <wpwrak> well, you can pay someone to pay you something if for some reason they fail to provide the service, but ...
2013-06-09 17:16 <wpwrak> physical disks often fail to work after spending too much time in storage
2013-06-09 17:17 <viric_> For me, self-sufficency is the option giving me most tranquility
2013-06-09 17:17 <viric_> But of course, that means giving up on features. :)
2013-06-09 17:17 <wpwrak> the best approach would probably be to find half a dozen non-cost file hosters, replicate the data to all of them, and move it around when one or some of them disappear
2013-06-09 17:17 <viric_> I built 'meogpg', did you see?
2013-06-09 17:18 <wpwrak> in the end, it's risk management, not roh's idealistic zero-risk situation
2013-06-09 17:18 <viric_> that's related to my backups and so...
2013-06-09 17:18 <viric_> wpwrak: eys
2013-06-09 17:18 <viric_> yes
2013-06-09 17:18 <viric_> https://viric.name/cgi-bin/meogpg
2013-06-09 17:18 <viric_> I'm not using it yet, but I wanted to use that giving data to a group of friends
2013-06-09 17:19 <wpwrak> e.g., if he goes bankrupt, his gadgets could simply be seized. then he has nothing. meanwhile, they can strip me naked and then shoot me, but my github projects will still live on
2013-06-09 17:19 <viric_> yes, not a bad management.
2013-06-09 17:20 <viric_> wpwrak: I plan to use the meogpg against the 'shoot me' case :)
2013-06-09 17:21 <wpwrak> (meopgp) hmm, does that work ?
2013-06-09 17:21 <viric_> meogpg
2013-06-09 17:21 <viric_> I didn't have the oportunity to test it *on the field* ;)
2013-06-09 17:21 <wpwrak> name=`sed 1q </dev/random`  # :)
2013-06-09 17:22 <viric_> multiple eyepairs only - gnupg
2013-06-09 17:22 <wpwrak> i mean the xor sets. so you basically generate X random numbers and one that's xorsum(key, random numbers)
2013-06-09 17:22 <viric_> wpwrak: there is a "How does it work" h2
2013-06-09 17:23 <viric_> what is xorsum?
2013-06-09 17:23 <wpwrak> yes, but i wonder if what's written there is correct. intuitively, it seems wrong
2013-06-09 17:23 <wpwrak> xorsum(a, b, c) = a XOR b XOR c   (i just made the term up)
2013-06-09 17:23 <viric_> ah ok
2013-06-09 17:23 <viric_> key = a xor b xor c xor d ....
2013-06-09 17:24 <viric_> a, b, c, d ... random numbers long as the key
2013-06-09 17:24 <wpwrak> except for the last one
2013-06-09 17:24 <viric_> what last one?
2013-06-09 17:24 <damo22> xorsum(...) = foldl(xor,...) ?
2013-06-09 17:25 <wpwrak> well, depend on whether you pick the key or whether it's the result of your random numbers
2013-06-09 17:25 <wpwrak> if the key is given, one of the numbers must be non-random
2013-06-09 17:25 <viric_> *the key* is the result of xoring the random numbers
2013-06-09 17:25 <viric_> no key given
2013-06-09 17:25 <wpwrak> so you generate the key. fine. then it's basically
2013-06-09 17:26 <wpwrak> do { R[] = random_numbers(); key = xor(R); } while (key_not_strong_enough(key));
2013-06-09 17:26 <viric_> :) I really have problems writing public explanations on websites. hehe.
2013-06-09 17:26 <wpwrak> depending on the crypto algorithm, key_not_strong_enough() may be { return 0; }
2013-06-09 17:26 <viric_> what would make the key 'not strong enough'?
2013-06-09 17:27 <viric_> well, it's a gpg symmetric key
2013-06-09 17:27 <wpwrak> well, some algorithms have weak keys. certain bit patterns that are "easy" to crack
2013-06-09 17:27 <viric_> you configure the symmetric ciphering for gnupg as you wish.
2013-06-09 17:28 <wpwrak> now ... the question is whether you can distribute the random numbers such that
2013-06-09 17:28 <wpwrak> a) < N people never have all the numbers
2013-06-09 17:28 <wpwrak> b) >= N people always have all the numbers
2013-06-09 17:28 <viric_> that's the point of the program
2013-06-09 17:28 <viric_> I implemented this: http://oss.stamfest.net/downloads/meo-paper.pdf
2013-06-09 17:29 <viric_> (about combinatorics)
2013-06-09 17:29 <viric_> I didn't use much else.
2013-06-09 17:30 <wpwrak> that's the theoretical basis i was looking for. thanks ! :) reading ...
2013-06-09 17:30 <viric_> (it's linked at the bottom of the page)
2013-06-09 17:30 <wpwrak> yeah, now that i scanned the page before complaining that you should link to the paper, i saw the link :)
2013-06-09 17:31 <viric_> you don't read in diagonal, you read in vertical
2013-06-09 17:31 <viric_> ;)
2013-06-09 17:32 <viric_> wpwrak: if you need more complains to be satisfied, you could tell me that there is no README
2013-06-09 17:32 <viric_> haha
2013-06-09 17:37 <viric_> roh: following that ncp thing I found opentracker. nice. :) http://erdgeist.org/arts/software/opentracker/
2013-06-09 17:39 <wpwrak> hmm yes, the algorithm seems plausible. that's a nice one. i though you'd need something like the redundant coding they consider(ed?) for multicast for this.
2013-06-09 17:40 <viric_> hm I didn't understand the last sentence
2013-06-09 17:41 <viric_> ah, well, I could send a copy to every friend, or publish it in my website with a link, if I trust the crypto. :)
2013-06-09 17:42 <viric_> "Download all my secrets"
2013-06-09 17:43 <roh> viric_: ah.. didnt know it?
2013-06-09 17:43 <viric_> no
2013-06-09 17:44 <viric_> due to not knowing that, I've only used dht bittorrent. :)
2013-06-09 17:44 <wpwrak> (coding) like the FEC algorithm described in II.A of ftp://ftp.cis.upenn.edu/pub/securitylab/fec/pblr.pdf
2013-06-09 17:45 <viric_> well, gpg has error detection
2013-06-09 17:45 <viric_> but for correction.. that can be spread everywhere and it's fine.
2013-06-09 17:45 <viric_> I mean multiple copies give FEC. :)
2013-06-09 17:45 <viric_> I tried to make all simple.
2013-06-09 17:46 <wpwrak> that FEC algorithm is about m-out-of-n receptions to reconstruct the original data. more complicated than yours (well, stamfest's) though.
2013-06-09 17:47 <viric_> ah ok.
2013-06-09 17:47 <viric_> yes, stampfest idea was very simple
2013-06-09 17:47 <viric_> I was impressed how could he make it so complicated (new binary file format, PKCS#*, ...)
2013-06-09 17:48 <viric_> both a console and a gui program with a common c++ lib...
2013-06-09 17:48 <viric_> roh: what do you think about flattr?
2013-06-09 17:50 <wpwrak> (making it complicated) yeah ;-)
2013-06-09 17:54 <roh> viric_: nice experiment. too bad it uses centralized currency
2013-06-09 17:54 <viric_> well, I don't like the bitcoin approach of burning as many Watts as possible either.
2013-06-09 17:55 <viric_> Specially without demurrage and all that.
2013-06-09 17:55 <roh> thats one thing. it dont like being trackable without reason
2013-06-09 17:55 <roh> so i really like cash
2013-06-09 17:56 <viric_> well, yes. But if I've to expect to get money in cash for what I publish...
2013-06-09 17:56 <viric_> It's very hard to receive some cents with flattr, imagine with cash :)
2013-06-09 17:57 <roh> i rather see people me paying cash for services than via flattr
2013-06-09 17:57 <viric_> right, that's for services.
2013-06-09 17:57 <viric_> I agree.
2013-06-09 17:57 <roh> usualy i do bank transfers for big amounts/stuff which has paperwork anyhow, the rest is cash
2013-06-09 17:58 <viric_> nice :)
2013-06-09 18:01 <damo22> selling services for cash? sounds a bit seedy
2013-06-09 18:07 <roh> damo22: i write bills
2013-06-09 18:07 <damo22> :P
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