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2013-03-11 02:23 <kristianpaul> hmm whats going on with qi-hardware server...
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2013-03-11 02:34 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: hi
2013-03-11 02:34 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: hi :)
2013-03-11 02:35 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: are you doing some maintenance with qi-hw server?
2013-03-11 02:35 <xiangfu> same here. I also cannot open qi-hardware.com
2013-03-11 02:36 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: hi :)
2013-03-11 02:36 <xiangfu> Hi. good morning. :)
2013-03-11 02:36 <kristianpaul> hello :)
2013-03-11 02:36 <kristianpaul> do you have know issues trying to detect the slx9 on the ftg256 board?
2013-03-11 02:37 <kristianpaul> i have swiched usb cables but the detect command seems not working..
2013-03-11 02:37 <kristianpaul> i was about to enter wiki to re-check jtag connections but..
2013-03-11 02:37 <xiangfu> how you poweron the ftg256 board? direct use your computer power?
2013-03-11 02:38 <kristianpaul> i used power from usb yes
2013-03-11 02:40 <kristianpaul> but vref seems to be okay as it dint complain when i power on the board
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2013-03-11 02:44 <kristianpaul> :)
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2013-03-11 04:28 <lkcl> ah HAAAAAHAAHAAA!  sander from ingenic sent me the PADS file and the schematics for the jz4770 PCB - yippeee!
2013-03-11 04:30 <wpwrak> bah. you should have asked for kicad :)
2013-03-11 04:31 * lkcl snorts
2013-03-11 04:32 <lkcl> well.... when someone works out how to run MS-Pascal on linux, then it'll be possible to run that free "PADS-to-KiCAD" PCB converter sitting on sourceforge...
2013-03-11 04:33 <lkcl> i tracked it down - it's the only program that can do conversion that's actually free software, but it's written in bloody pascal
2013-03-11 04:33 * lkcl goes cross-eyed
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2013-03-11 04:45 <wpwrak> at least not in BLISS :)
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2013-03-11 04:47 <lkcl> ha ha
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2013-03-11 05:57 <DocScrutinizer05> err wut? MS-Pascal? I'd hope it's sufficiently standard Pascal to be sourcecode compatible to commonly available pascal in gcc
2013-03-11 05:57 <DocScrutinizer05> was it in gcc? or was it something on top of gcc?
2013-03-11 05:58 * DocScrutinizer05 mumbles "*M*S*-pascal!!" and starts to cough
2013-03-11 06:03 <wpwrak> there is no usable "standard pascal" :)
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2013-03-11 06:13 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, that actually sounds about correct
2013-03-11 06:14 <wpwrak> i grew up with it :)
2013-03-11 06:14 <DocScrutinizer05> for a converter however it should suffice
2013-03-11 06:14 <wpwrak> string functions ? good luck :)
2013-03-11 06:14 <DocScrutinizer05> since you have a clearly specified number of filehandles to list in porgram header
2013-03-11 06:14 <wpwrak> well, let's start easy: strings.
2013-03-11 06:15 <DocScrutinizer05> pascal strings are not C strings, yes
2013-03-11 06:15 <wpwrak> and anything that goes beyond wirth is rather non-portable
2013-03-11 06:16 <wpwrak> and of course, you need that VERY quickly if you intend to do anything with strings
2013-03-11 06:19 <DocScrutinizer05> TP FTW
2013-03-11 06:19 <DocScrutinizer05> or Modula which looks rather similar to TurboP
2013-03-11 06:21 <wpwrak> blargh. clunkier than COBOL.
2013-03-11 06:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I had the "pleasure" to use Siemens PASCAL-M for years, and I had to do hacks like store and replace the opaque content of the filehandle, to manage an arbitrary number of files to open concurrently
2013-03-11 06:23 <wpwrak> ;-)
2013-03-11 06:25 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, "program foobar(file: in, file: out);" how stupid is THAT?
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2013-03-11 06:29 <wpwrak> ask wirth's shrink ? :)
2013-03-11 06:31 <DocScrutinizer05> AWESOME: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Hallo-Welt-Programmen/Programmiersprachen#Objective-C_mit_Cocoa
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2013-03-11 06:33 <DocScrutinizer05> PEARL is also nice, in that list
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2013-03-11 06:33 <DocScrutinizer05> SPC TERMINAL DATION OUT ALPHIC DIM(,) TFU MAX FORWARD CONTROL (ALL);
2013-03-11 06:34 <wpwrak> "volle fahrt voraus !"
2013-03-11 06:34 <DocScrutinizer05> If somebody would say that to me, he'd better make sure I don't have any weapons in rwach
2013-03-11 06:34 <wpwrak> the OC-Caca example is indeed impressive
2013-03-11 06:35 <wpwrak> but the list of languages is woefully incomplete. where are APL, Brainfuck, and INTERCAL ?
2013-03-11 06:35 <wpwrak> this is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hello_world_program_examples
2013-03-11 06:36 <wpwrak> except for INTERCAL, all the goodies i mentioned are present :)
2013-03-11 06:37 <wpwrak> but that's just because they were too lazy to copy the fine example from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL#Hello.2C_world
2013-03-11 06:41 <DocScrutinizer05> W*T*F??
2013-03-11 06:41 <DocScrutinizer05> DO, PLEASE DO
2013-03-11 06:41 <wpwrak> it's explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL#Details
2013-03-11 06:48 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, if you need somebody to port that friggin MS-PASCAL converter to linux, just ask. Might be fun
2013-03-11 06:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think it could be too hard to "figure how to run MS-Pascal on linux"
2013-03-11 06:50 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc on linux you even got a PASCAL->C converter
2013-03-11 06:51 <DocScrutinizer05> the resulting code might be a tad ugly, but if you hate pascal that much, you might prefer c anyway
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2013-03-11 19:51 <whitequark> http://www.osnews.com/story/26849/Google_called_the_MPEG-LA_s_bluff_and_won
2013-03-11 19:51 <whitequark> tldr: VP8 is a relatively modern codec which doesn't have patent strings attached.
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2013-03-11 20:43 <wpwrak> how can you know that there are no other patents ?
2013-03-11 20:45 <whitequark> wpwrak: well, there isn't a way to predict when submarine patents will emerge
2013-03-11 20:45 <whitequark> (except that apparently there will be no more of them after 2015: https://www.acclaimip.com/node/119)
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2013-03-11 20:48 <wpwrak> well, "submarine patents" are just a specific form of patent attacks
2013-03-11 20:50 <wpwrak> the only "safe" way to avoid trouble would be to get a binding declaration from every holder of any patent that they either don't consider your technology to infringe or that they agree with your use (likely in exchange for some compensation)
2013-03-11 20:50 <wpwrak> well, any patent up to the date when you froze your technology
2013-03-11 20:51 <wpwrak> if you make any change, the clock resets and you also need to talk to the patent holders that have filed in between
2013-03-11 20:51 <wpwrak> and that doesn't even explore the possibility of a patent holder changing their mind and challenging the binding nature of a previous declaration
2013-03-11 20:52 * whitequark shrugs
2013-03-11 20:52 <whitequark> that's unrealistic
2013-03-11 20:53 <whitequark> I don't really see how you could get better than the current state with VP8
2013-03-11 20:53 <larsc> let it put it this way the chance being sued over patents for using vp8 have been lowered quite a bit
2013-03-11 20:54 <wpwrak> actually, considering that some legal systems don't consider a contract without a quid pro quo invalid, you'd probably even have to license the ones that don't apply, just to err on the safe side. there are some 6 M patents worldwide in 2006. now we're probably around 8 M
2013-03-11 20:55 <wpwrak> (if not more, with china entering the game)
2013-03-11 20:55 <wpwrak> larsc: yes, i'd agree with that. the main bully has been neutralized.
2013-03-11 20:56 <wpwrak> whitequark: and yes, of course it's unrealistic. that's what patents are about :) there is no defense that works. well, perhaps except owning a heavily armed rogue state :)
2013-03-11 20:56 <larsc> or a hoarde of laywers ;)
2013-03-11 20:57 <whitequark> iirc google has provided their patents resulting from motorola purchase to samsung
2013-03-11 20:57 <wpwrak> larsc: yeah, they can at least delay until the other side thinks it's not worth it
2013-03-11 21:00 * whitequark idly wonders why a photoreceptive protein is "strongly expressed in brain and testis tissue"
2013-03-11 21:00 <whitequark> OPN3 gene / Opsin-3 protein
2013-03-11 21:01 <wpwrak> maybe that's where "thinking with one's dick" has its origin
2013-03-11 21:01 <whitequark> that would be "looking"
2013-03-11 21:01 <whitequark> also liver kidney and whatnot
2013-03-11 21:08 <wpwrak> maybe some optical computing ? :)
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2013-03-11 21:16 <whitequark> it seems so
2013-03-11 21:17 <whitequark> in the brain, it _somehow_ regulates circadic rhytms
2013-03-11 21:17 <whitequark> and...  During meiosis, marked upregulation takes place for many genes unrelated to the meiotic process, and many of these transcripts are not translated into protein (Eddy and O’Brien, 1998). Thus, it is unclear whether encephalopsin in these spermatids plays a functional role.
2013-03-11 21:19 <wpwrak> well, they need to see where they're going, don't they ? :)
2013-03-11 21:20 <wpwrak> but why the sudden interest in molecular biology ?
2013-03-11 21:21 <whitequark> not that sudden
2013-03-11 21:21 <whitequark> well I stumbled upon that gene accidentally
2013-03-11 21:21 <whitequark> but given my background I already had the knowledge to understand that it makes no sense and also where to look for details
2013-03-11 21:21 <whitequark> curiosity.
2013-03-11 21:22 <whitequark> haha, we don't know what it does but you can order antibodies for it online for several hundred bucks
2013-03-11 21:22 <whitequark> http://www.antibodies-online.com/abstract/Opsin+3+(OPN3)+Antibody/
2013-03-11 21:23 <larsc> better be safe
2013-03-11 21:23 <whitequark> larsc: safe?
2013-03-11 21:23 <wpwrak> i'd be very careful with "makes no sense". but you can try the antigene on your rats, see what ailments they come up with.
2013-03-11 21:24 <viric> wpwrak: russians always says "makes no sense"
2013-03-11 21:24 <viric> it's a weird idiom they have
2013-03-11 21:24 <whitequark> um, it doesn't really work that way
2013-03-11 21:25 <whitequark> antibody assays are a method of identification of proteins
2013-03-11 21:25 <wpwrak> viric: is that before, during, or after the vodka ? :)
2013-03-11 21:25 <viric> I've seen that always
2013-03-11 21:25 <wpwrak> well, scratch that. there probably isn't a before or after. well, except for birth and death.
2013-03-11 21:25 <whitequark> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunoassay
2013-03-11 21:26 <viric> It looks very unhigienic to me.
2013-03-11 21:26 <wpwrak> i wonder if russian babies have their vodka diluted with milk ? or do they start directly with regular stuff ?
2013-03-11 21:26 <viric> :)
2013-03-11 21:26 <whitequark> viric: what
2013-03-11 21:27 <viric> the idiom, looks to me unhigienic
2013-03-11 21:27 <whitequark> wpwrak: there was a headline not too long ago; a baby died due to enormous alcohol concentration in breast milk
2013-03-11 21:27 <whitequark> you are not too far off :(
2013-03-11 21:28 <whitequark> viric: unhygienic? I don't get why...
2013-03-11 21:28 <viric> well, in my language, "makes no sense" sounds like you put the blame on others, for something you don't understand.
2013-03-11 21:28 <wpwrak> whitequark: mix the antibodies with markers that attract the t-cells and you're there :)
2013-03-11 21:28 <viric> so for me it's a very aggressive wording
2013-03-11 21:29 <viric> but I see russians say it very often
2013-03-11 21:29 <viric> for something they don't understand.
2013-03-11 21:29 <whitequark> wpwrak: you'd then get an autoimmune reaction, i.e. inflammation of brain, testes, liver, ...
2013-03-11 21:29 <whitequark> so, the rats will quite certainly die
2013-03-11 21:30 <whitequark> what you meant to perform is "gene knockout"
2013-03-11 21:30 <whitequark> i.e. a modification of DNA performed to disable that particular gene and look at the results
2013-03-11 21:30 <whitequark> I'm fairly sure someone will do that, earlier or later.
2013-03-11 21:31 <whitequark> viric: hm. aggressive. I didn't even realize it is an idiom
2013-03-11 21:31 <whitequark> the implied continuation is "makes no sense [to me]"
2013-03-11 21:32 <viric> for me, "makes no sense" means "you must be wrong, because I don't understand"
2013-03-11 21:32 <wpwrak> whitequark: yeah, the knockout may be gentler. kill the thing at the root.
2013-03-11 21:32 <whitequark> i.e. almost exactly the same as "I don't understand", coupled maybe with the fact that at least an attempt of understanding was performed
2013-03-11 21:33 <whitequark> if you just don't get it, it's "I don't understand". if you think for five minutes and still don't get it even remotely, it "makes no sense"
2013-03-11 21:33 <viric> I guess it's some kind of cultural shock :)
2013-03-11 21:33 <whitequark> probably
2013-03-11 21:33 <wpwrak> viric: you could say "makes no sense ... to me". of just stop at "makes no" and down another vodka. everybody will appreciate the need for a vodka break after two whole words.
2013-03-11 21:33 <viric> :)
2013-03-11 21:34 <whitequark> fuck vodka jokes, they're way too old.
2013-03-11 21:34 <larsc> that all makes no sense ;)
2013-03-11 21:34 <viric> when someone tells me "makes no sense", I feel pushed not to help understanding :)
2013-03-11 21:35 <viric> hehe
2013-03-11 21:35 * whitequark was about to write "that makes no sense", but noticed how larsc already did that
2013-03-11 21:35 <wpwrak> whitequark: wow, a russian who gets offended by vodka jokes. i thought that would be impossible :)
2013-03-11 21:36 <viric> for me, "makes no sense" ~= "It can't be understood"
2013-03-11 21:36 <whitequark> wpwrak: as the time passes, I want to be identified as russian less and less.
2013-03-11 21:36 <viric> I'm trying to find out how I map that.
2013-03-11 21:37 <wpwrak> ah, voting ended in the falklands. now let's see what the counts show. i wonder if it'll be floor(votes) = 100% or only round(votes) = 100%.
2013-03-11 21:37 <whitequark> viric: hm, is "it can't be understood" an idiom in English? let's check
2013-03-11 21:37 <viric> I map that to the Catalan "no s'entén".
2013-03-11 21:37 <wpwrak> whitequark: don't worry, spring is coming :)
2013-03-11 21:37 <viric> wpwrak: do you understand the spanish "No se entiende" ?
2013-03-11 21:38 <wpwrak> i'd translate it as "it's incomprehensible"
2013-03-11 21:38 <viric> That's how I map "makes no sense"
2013-03-11 21:39 <viric> If I'm alone on that...
2013-03-11 21:39 <wpwrak> but with a slant towards "i can't understand", given that the literal generalization would be of little relevance
2013-03-11 21:39 <viric> maybe I don't have to speak about "russians use that idiom" :)
2013-03-11 21:40 <viric> ok, I'll take that as my particular approach then.
2013-03-11 21:41 <whitequark> actually, I've just realized that I don't know which particular russian phrase maps to "makes no sense" in my mind
2013-03-11 21:41 <wpwrak> similar to "everybody is suffering under the extreme heat". of course, there may be some folks who don't. and in general we're no interested in finding out.
2013-03-11 21:41 <viric> whitequark: I noticed that only in russians speaking in English
2013-03-11 21:41 <whitequark> if that *really* makes *totally no sense*, it would be "bullshit"
2013-03-11 21:41 <whitequark> aka чушь
2013-03-11 21:42 <viric> whitequark: это не понятно
2013-03-11 21:42 <larsc> I say "makes no sense" all the time
2013-03-11 21:42 <wpwrak> hmm, interesting
2013-03-11 21:42 <viric> do you take it similar to не понимаю?
2013-03-11 21:42 <whitequark> "бессмыслица" (senseless stuff) is quite literary and isn't encountered often in speech
2013-03-11 21:42 <whitequark> viric: hm
2013-03-11 21:42 <wpwrak> so if you think "it makes no sense", it literally makes no sense in your mind
2013-03-11 21:42 <wpwrak> of you think of a dog, so you hear some faint barking from between your ears ?
2013-03-11 21:43 <wpwrak> s/of/if/
2013-03-11 21:43 <qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "if you think if a dog, so you hear some faint barking from between your ears ?"
2013-03-11 21:43 <wpwrak> grr
2013-03-11 21:43 <wpwrak> that was without /g !
2013-03-11 21:43 <whitequark> viric: kind of
2013-03-11 21:43 <viric> I didn't understand a word about the dog
2013-03-11 21:44 <whitequark> same here
2013-03-11 21:44 <whitequark> that just made no sense
2013-03-11 21:44 <whitequark> *ahem*
2013-03-11 21:44 <viric> :)
2013-03-11 21:44 <larsc> I see the dog
2013-03-11 21:45 <whitequark> viric: yes, I think that "не понимаю" might well map to "makes no sense"
2013-03-11 21:45 <whitequark> but the reason is unclear to me
2013-03-11 21:45 <viric> for me, "to me" is very important
2013-03-11 21:46 <viric> like you used here "unclear to me"
2013-03-11 21:46 <viric> without it, sounds to me very pretentious
2013-03-11 21:47 <viric> I've to do some effort to avoid offension.
2013-03-11 21:47 <viric> language nuances.
2013-03-11 21:48 <viric> these things may start wars.
2013-03-11 21:48 <viric> :)
2013-03-11 21:48 <wpwrak> (dog) the - currently challenged by scientific discoveries of the last millennia - idea that, when you think of something, the very object manifests itself in your head. in the case of "makes no sense", your brain would therefore assume the configuration of making no sense. qed.
2013-03-11 21:48 <whitequark> hm, I'd never distinguish between the latter two
2013-03-11 21:48 <viric> hm I seem to recall an article about that
2013-03-11 21:48 <whitequark> maybe because "clear" is always subjective
2013-03-11 21:48 <viric> I remember a story about a CCCР diplomat, and "не понятно"
2013-03-11 21:48 <viric> in USA
2013-03-11 21:49 <viric> and problems around that :)
2013-03-11 21:52 <viric> can't find it.
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