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2013-01-25 07:29 <whitequark> wpwrak: is there even such a thing as -O9?
2013-01-25 07:29 <whitequark> -O3 should be the last one
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2013-01-25 07:49 <wpwrak> well, it's an implementation-independent way of asking the compiler to give everything it has :)
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2013-01-25 09:27 <whitequark> wpwrak: I once committed a mistake of using -O10 for much the same reason
2013-01-25 09:27 <whitequark> obviously it ignored the zero, so...
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2013-01-25 10:27 <Fallenou> ahah
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2013-01-25 10:36 <whitequark> the yet-to-be-released LLVM linker can emit files in YAML format (as an alternative to ELF, COFF, ...)
2013-01-25 10:36 <whitequark> like this: http://pastie.org/5827976
2013-01-25 10:37 <whitequark> I find it that more Unix[-way] tools should be able to emit data in a format which is both machine-parseable and human-readable.
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2013-01-25 12:28 <wpwrak> (yaml) looks like a nice format. not xml ;-) ("oh, but it's all text, so it's very human-readable")
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2013-01-25 12:38 <whitequark> wpwrak: yup. it's kinda popular in ruby and python, especially ruby
2013-01-25 12:39 <whitequark> and it allows for a portable way to serialize complex objects
2013-01-25 12:39 <whitequark> i.e. you need to output it as text, but you can define which procedure your deserializer must use
2013-01-25 12:40 <whitequark> so there's no need to pass dates in ISO8601 strings and fuzzy-match them on the receiving end :/
2013-01-25 12:40 <whitequark> as json does.
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2013-01-25 16:46 <wpwrak> hmm, seems that there's a pretty large set of potential optimization bugs (all related to "volatile") behind the critter i found. http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=56098
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2013-01-25 16:53 <whitequark> wpwrak: don't use volatile, it's broken by design
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2013-01-25 16:57 <wpwrak> naw, there are fairly reasonable conventions in place that give volatile useful and predictable behaviour beyond what ANSI C specifies
2013-01-25 16:58 <wpwrak> but i would agree that, as far as the standard is concerned, it's broken :)
2013-01-25 16:58 <whitequark> well you have nice atomics in C++11
2013-01-25 16:58 <whitequark> and maybe you can also have them in C11, I'm not sure
2013-01-25 16:59 <kristianpaul> phew new psu :-)
2013-01-25 16:59 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: fan reached expiration date ? :)
2013-01-25 17:00 <whitequark> wpwrak: I'd encourage you to read http://gustedt.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/emulating-c11-compiler-features-with-gcc-_atomic/
2013-01-25 17:01 <whitequark> but from a quick peek, it's far more opaque than the stuff found in C++11
2013-01-25 17:01 <whitequark> you might or might not find that useful.
2013-01-25 17:07 <wpwrak> gcc has some builtins beyond sync ... lemme check ...
2013-01-25 17:07 <wpwrak> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.7.2/gcc/_005f_005fatomic-Builtins.html#_005f_005fatomic-Builtins
2013-01-25 17:08 <wpwrak> sync is already obsolete: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.7.2/gcc/_005f_005fsync-Builtins.html#_005f_005fsync-Builtins
2013-01-25 17:10 <whitequark> yeah. you probably need __ATOMIC_SEQ_CST
2013-01-25 17:11 <whitequark> which, on one hand, will insert memory barriers in the compiler, because that's correct semantics
2013-01-25 17:11 <whitequark> but on other one, the CPU inserts them by itself when you fiddle with I/O memory, so that theoretically shouldn't slow you down
2013-01-25 17:11 <wpwrak> but i find them a bit heavy for what i'm looking for here. my goal is to have a "nice" syntax. and the semantics of volatile allow me to get this, even if it may not be optimally efficient.
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2013-01-25 17:13 <wpwrak> i wouldn't be so sure about the CPU inserting anything for you. some do, others don't ...
2013-01-25 17:13 <whitequark> wpwrak: well, if your CPU has I/O memory and volatile works with it, it does
2013-01-25 17:14 <whitequark> it either does insert the correct barriers or does not have out-of-order execution, that is.
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2013-01-25 17:14 <whitequark> the latter is probably true for Jz4740
2013-01-25 17:14 <whitequark> (considering it doesn't have SMP anyway)
2013-01-25 17:15 <wpwrak> ah, you meant OO. i thought of bus locks.
2013-01-25 17:15 <whitequark> yup, you got to flush the store reordering buffer and serialize the pipeline
2013-01-25 17:20 <whitequark> hah. just learned that LLVM can compile code for VLIW DSP targets
2013-01-25 17:21 <whitequark> which is quite impressive if you'd ask. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Hexagon
2013-01-25 17:27 <whitequark> eg it automatically recognizes induction variable when it postincrements over some pointer and converts it to a hardware loop
2013-01-25 17:29 <wpwrak> putting all that analysis it already does for other reasons to good use :)
2013-01-25 17:33 <whitequark> that is very much true
2013-01-25 17:34 <roh> i think the hexagon stuff is quite new
2013-01-25 17:34 <roh> afaik thats qualcomms bb arch
2013-01-25 17:34 <whitequark> roh: yes, and it's somewhat WIP
2013-01-25 17:34 <whitequark> e.g. the hardware loop stuff is actually a patch on its ML
2013-01-25 17:34 <whitequark> but still
2013-01-25 17:35 <roh> nice. sure. does a disassm exist also?
2013-01-25 17:35 <whitequark> roh: lemme check
2013-01-25 17:37 <roh> need to run.. bbl
2013-01-25 17:40 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: dust made its work too...
2013-01-25 17:42 <whitequark> roh: looks like it's not the case
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2013-01-25 17:47 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: time for someone to develop fans without mechanical bearings :)
2013-01-25 17:47 <whitequark> roh: but gnu toolchain, which is also available, does include a disassembler in objdump, as usual
2013-01-25 17:47 <wpwrak> well, make that _inexpensive_ fans. i'm sure there are some that work very nicely and cost a ton of money.
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2013-01-25 17:55 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: ;)
2013-01-25 17:56 <whitequark> make fans with magnetic levitation
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2013-01-25 17:59 <wpwrak> yeah, that's roughly what i was thinking of
2013-01-25 18:01 <wpwrak> 8 USD. hmm. and look suspiciously like traditional fans.
2013-01-25 18:03 <wpwrak> ``According to Sunon, this kind of fan has a life-span of 50,000 hours at “room temperature”''. that's less than for conventional bearings. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/Anatomy-of-Computer-Fans/1039
2013-01-25 18:07 <wpwrak> maybe a bit more tech needs to be thrown at that problem. such a fan should in theory live forever. you could seal it completely, so if it gets dirty, rinse off the worst, then toss it into the dish washer.
2013-01-25 18:08 <wpwrak> then all you get would be abrasion by particles floating in the gaps, plus any aging of materials. both should be negligible. of course, such a design may be a bit heavy ...
2013-01-25 18:12 <wpwrak> or just wait for quantum physics to finally crack that theory of everything and then use a directed gravitational field to move that air. (with appropriate dampening, of course)
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2013-01-25 20:22 <whitequark> http://llvm.org/devmtg/2011-11/videos/Simpson_PortingLLVMToADSP-desktop.mp4
2013-01-25 20:22 <whitequark> I also find it quite hilarious that Qualcomm open-sourced their DSP effort
2013-01-25 20:23 <whitequark> given all that stuff about "let's only allow GPL plugins so evil proprietary vendors won't write them". and qualcomm for sure fits the definition of an evil proprietary vendor.
2013-01-25 20:24 <whitequark> not only opensourced, but they even do it within the usual community contribution process
2013-01-25 20:24 <whitequark> and not just post patchbombs no one could make sense of
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2013-01-25 22:48 <wpwrak> whitequark: breaking news: scientists have detected strong evidence that developers are able to learn, if given enough time and mistakes. ;-)
2013-01-25 22:49 <whitequark> wpwrak: ... however, the same couldn't be said about managers ;)
2013-01-25 22:51 <wpwrak> ... or the beancounters at finances
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2013-01-25 22:53 <whitequark> indeed. "beancounters", I like that word
2013-01-25 22:53 <wpwrak> one theory is that managers fulfill an orwellian role to maintain a good team spirit among the developers, acting as everyone's external inscrutable enemy
2013-01-25 22:57 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-la/Makefile (CFLAGS): use more specific -O9 -fno-tree-cselim (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/09de245
2013-01-25 22:57 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-patgen/Makefile (CFLAGS): use more specific -O9 -fno-tree-cselim (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/a947b5e
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