2013-01-06 00:14 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2013-01-06 00:33 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2013-01-06 00:38 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 00:57 jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2013-01-06 01:07 jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 01:12 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 01:13 jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-01-06 01:42 jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 01:45 panda|x201 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-01-06 01:46 jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2013-01-06 02:25 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 2013-01-06 03:58 hack has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 04:02 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2013-01-06 04:02 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 04:11 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 04:26 hack is now known as megha 2013-01-06 04:40 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2013-01-06 06:30 megha has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-01-06 06:44 megha has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 06:56 megha has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2013-01-06 06:58 rz2k has quit [] 2013-01-06 07:12 megha has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 07:32 jayar has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 07:33 is this the right place to ask a harddrive question? 2013-01-06 07:34 * jayar taps the mic 2013-01-06 07:35 is this thing on? 2013-01-06 07:35 testing testing... civilance... civilance... 2013-01-06 07:36 well dangsauce 2013-01-06 07:36 carry on, idlers 2013-01-06 07:36 jayar has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2013-01-06 09:02 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 09:50 wtf 2013-01-06 10:09 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-01-06 10:53 megha has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2013-01-06 11:07 megha has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 11:54 nowadays they have really earth-shattering insults. "idlers". boah. 2013-01-06 13:00 Hoolxi has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 13:01 !top10 idle 2013-01-06 13:01 Top10(idle-factor): 1. woakas(262588.66) 2. paroneayea(195220.00) 3. jluis(165642.67) 4. Openfree`(82697.50) 5. emeb(73045.20) 6. freakazoid0223(62197.67) 7. zumbi(61670.25) 8. zedstar_(56398.00) 9. wej(54859.40) 10. newcup(44201.75) 2013-01-06 13:06 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 13:08 [commit] kyak: ben-cyrillic: use phonetic keymap by default (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/fa463c3 2013-01-06 13:11 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-01-06 13:17 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 13:21 liuqi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-01-06 13:21 wpwrak: you know what makes me sad? 2013-01-06 13:22 all these new high-speed interfaces. they're completely impenetrable for DIY 2013-01-06 13:22 DVI, HDMI, USB>2 (or >= maybe), DisplayPort, SATA 2013-01-06 13:23 !top10 2013-01-06 13:23 Top10(words): 1. wpwrak(363814) 2. wolfsprau(156714) 3. wolfspraul(103224) 4. kristianpaul(97052) 5. whitequark(95257) 6. DocScrutinizer(85365) 7. kyak(71580) 8. roh(56080) 9. viric(48162) 10. xiangfu(36599) 2013-01-06 13:24 meh 2013-01-06 13:24 hehehe 2013-01-06 13:24 and WTF? 2013-01-06 13:24 friggin bot's statistics are useless 2013-01-06 13:24 wpwrak talks as much as everybody else combined 2013-01-06 13:25 kind of 2013-01-06 13:25 well not everyone, sum(2..5) = 1 2013-01-06 13:25 nfc what those statistics mean at all 2013-01-06 13:30 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2013-01-06 13:37 damn. my absolute majority is being threatened ! 2013-01-06 13:38 need to talk more then :) 2013-01-06 13:39 whitequark: (fancy new interfaces) yeah, they're tricky. not completely impenetrable but considerably more difficult to play with 2013-01-06 13:40 fortunately USB is as backwards-compatible as it is realistically possible 2013-01-06 13:41 yeah, a pain at any speed, but at least manageable while slow 2013-01-06 13:41 why? USB is pretty nice 2013-01-06 13:41 when you are programming a device at least :) 2013-01-06 13:42 (well, theoretically it is fully backwards compatible, but I've seen more than once noncompliant device working on 2.0 and failing on 3.0.) 2013-01-06 13:42 s/once/one/ 2013-01-06 13:42 whitequark meant: "(well, theoretically it is fully backwards compatible, but I've seen more than one noncompliant device working on 2.0 and failing on 3.0.)" 2013-01-06 13:44 in fact let me check if v-usb-based USBASP still works... 2013-01-06 13:46 if only I had a clue where the board is. 2013-01-06 13:48 yeah works perfectly 2013-01-06 13:48 [1183600.307007] usb 3-3: new low-speed USB device number 32 using xhci_hcd 2013-01-06 13:48 well, kudos to USB Consortium then. 2013-01-06 13:50 STM32VLDISCOVERY: fail 2013-01-06 13:50 they abused USB Mass Storage on their programmer to display a 64k "block device" with a pseudo-FAT where four .url file is stored with links to the ST website 2013-01-06 13:50 well they have to make sure it works 2013-01-06 13:50 the USB consortium 2013-01-06 13:51 larsc: there is more than one example when something ought to work, a consortium existed to ensure that, and it actually doesn't 2013-01-06 13:51 for example, I dunno, Bluetooth 2013-01-06 13:52 the fucking thing never works for me. every single time I need to use BT I spend hours trying to make it work and then usually give up. 2013-01-06 13:52 bluez in Debian is completely unable to talk with bluez in Android. perfect. 2013-01-06 13:53 yea, it is always sad when that happens 2013-01-06 13:53 whitequark: USB mass storage for a virtual FAT is a very good idea. i'm actually surprised it seems to have taken so long to be implemented (NXP have it too) 2013-01-06 13:54 wpwrak: I'm not if this was intentional or not on their side, but this device violates sheer amount of requirements in the spec 2013-01-06 13:54 whitequark: what sucks is that you can't have USB mass storage on a USB low-speed device 2013-01-06 13:54 it's a high-speed device btw 2013-01-06 13:54 mth has quit [] 2013-01-06 13:54 ah, like what ? 2013-01-06 13:54 it hardly works even on 2.0, requiring a kernel patch and a quirk enable 2013-01-06 13:54 ;-)) 2013-01-06 13:54 just to enumerate 2013-01-06 13:55 (the patch is in mainline for a long time, but still) 2013-01-06 13:55 then, the mass-storage port doesn't work in linux anyway 2013-01-06 13:55 perhaps they had deadlines to meet, leaving no time to read those boring specs ;-) 2013-01-06 13:55 but you can abuse SCSI vendor-specific commands to actually program the target 2013-01-06 13:55 blargh 2013-01-06 13:56 and in 3.0, it is just stuck in an endless reset loop 2013-01-06 13:56 wpwrak: oh, it's a high-speed device btw 2013-01-06 13:56 [1183860.020531] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff88010cd80780 2013-01-06 13:56 [1183860.020549] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff88010cd807c0 2013-01-06 13:56 [1183860.179003] usb 3-3: reset full-speed USB device number 34 using xhci_hcd 2013-01-06 13:56 [1183860.190426] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff88010cd80780 2013-01-06 13:56 [1183860.190436] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff88010cd807c0 2013-01-06 13:56 [1183860.349773] usb 3-3: reset full-speed USB device number 34 using xhci_hcd 2013-01-06 13:56 I've seen similar behavior with Samsung's bootloader in their phones 2013-01-06 13:58 but is that a bug in the device or in the kernel? 2013-01-06 13:58 heh. perhaps they should have been less ambitious ;-) 2013-01-06 13:59 (vendor-specific commands) the beauty of using USB storage is that this is about the only way to get data to a USB device that's OS-agnostic. 2013-01-06 13:59 for anything else you need some sort of driver 2013-01-06 13:59 wpwrak: but they screwed them up too 2013-01-06 14:00 something with error codes, I don't remember, it was two years ago 2013-01-06 14:00 well, one you decide to foul it up, you may as well go all the way ;-) 2013-01-06 14:00 so you need even more quirks, or libusb 2013-01-06 14:00 wpwrak: usb keyboard works as well ;) 2013-01-06 14:00 oh yes, HID requests. 2013-01-06 14:00 you can even send them from an unprivileged account in Windows 2013-01-06 14:01 larsc: how do you send a file over HID, in an OS-neutral way ? :) 2013-01-06 14:01 tell people to open up a texteditor, then send the characters ;) 2013-01-06 14:01 huh ? 2013-01-06 14:02 with a proper keyboard layout chosen. 2013-01-06 14:02 mth has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 14:02 does HID have a snoop option ? e.g., for law enforcement :) 2013-01-06 14:02 viric: the problem is that you're the device. so how do you see what other HID devices are doing ? 2013-01-06 14:02 well you can of course only send one file 2013-01-06 14:03 no idea. 2013-01-06 14:03 larsc: what? 2013-01-06 14:03 larsc: and then it self-destructs ? 2013-01-06 14:03 in ps2 times, barcode readers were put between the keyboard and the computer :) 2013-01-06 14:03 viric: you can do this with HID too 2013-01-06 14:03 there are examples for atmel chips on the net 2013-01-06 14:04 wpwrak: well you can send the same file multiple times 2013-01-06 14:04 bar code is easy. pretent you're a keyboard and just send the numbers. 2013-01-06 14:04 you need a push button on the device to start the transaction 2013-01-06 14:05 larsc: wait ... how does the data get sent to the device ? i mean, what does it pretend to be and by what mechanism does it receive the data ? 2013-01-06 14:05 wpwrak: the device only sends data out 2013-01-06 14:05 no backchannel 2013-01-06 14:05 ah, okay. that's trivial 2013-01-06 14:06 no firmware updates then 2013-01-06 14:06 larsc: wpwrak implemented a firmware update via mass storage 2013-01-06 14:06 back to USB storage and its full-speed requirement :-( 2013-01-06 14:06 except maybe using morse code on the capslock key 2013-01-06 14:06 whitequark: no, i haven't yet. but i'd want to. without paying the premium for full-speed. 2013-01-06 14:07 larsc: yes, the LEDs are a backchannel :) 2013-01-06 14:07 wpwrak: linux has a quirk which modifies bulk endpoints to be interrupt for low-speed devices 2013-01-06 14:07 whitequark: that one no longer exists (tried it) 2013-01-06 14:07 but you probably have no luck with windows and even more os x 2013-01-06 14:07 oh, that sucks 2013-01-06 14:07 it was a nice quirk. 2013-01-06 14:12 I think we even looked up the commit that removed it some time ago 2013-01-06 14:14 yeah 2013-01-06 14:15 http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware/2012-08-08#1503661; 2013-01-06 14:17 so it is still there 2013-01-06 14:17 the internet never forgets :) 2013-01-06 14:17 I mean the quirk 2013-01-06 14:17 it's still in the kernel 2013-01-06 14:21 ah .. no, i don't think the quirk is still there 2013-01-06 14:22 or at least it doesn't work 2013-01-06 14:23 anyway, given that the objective is compatibility, relying on linux-specific quirks wouldn't be such a great idea 2013-01-06 14:24 after all, if we just care about linux, making a little libusb-based utility is trivial 2013-01-06 14:27 libusb works also on windows and macos 2013-01-06 14:28 larsc: but not when code signing is enabled 2013-01-06 14:28 i.e. >= Vista 2013-01-06 14:28 and/or 64-bit kernel, which forces code signing to be enabled 2013-01-06 14:29 ah, didn't knew that 2013-01-06 14:29 oh wait, they fixed it 2013-01-06 14:29 is this because of the libusb kernel module? 2013-01-06 14:29 http://www.libusb.org/wiki/libusb-win32 2013-01-06 14:29 For 64bit Windows Vista/7/2008/2008R2, the version should be 1.2.0.0 or later. 2013-01-06 14:29 windows - designed to suck and delivering on its premises since day one :) 2013-01-06 14:29 s/prem/prom/ 2013-01-06 14:29 wpwrak meant: "windows - designed to suck and delivering on its promises since day one :)" 2013-01-06 14:29 that's very neat 2013-01-06 14:30 As of version V1.2.0.0, a valid digital signature is embedded inside libusb0.sys for AMD/Intel x86_64 version of Windows so that the users can install the driver as well under 64bit x86_64 version of Windows Vista/7/2008/2008R2. 2013-01-06 14:30 ah, nice 2013-01-06 14:30 wpwrak: code signing in windows is awesome 2013-01-06 14:30 that should've been there from day one 2013-01-06 14:31 you can override it with a boot.ini switch even for 64-bit kernels btw 2013-01-06 14:31 it does make sense in fact that it is intentionally hard for users, because malware. 2013-01-06 14:32 I must say I like the new Linux kernel module signing 2013-01-06 14:32 * whitequark doesn't like mindless bashing of windows 2013-01-06 14:32 larsc: the EFI Secure Boot one? 2013-01-06 14:32 create a new public-private key pair, build your kernel, sign your modules and delete the private key 2013-01-06 14:33 makes it much harder for rootkits 2013-01-06 14:33 linux doesn't have a shortage of kernel holes 2013-01-06 14:34 just look at all the android phones, which are trivially routed, often without physical access 2013-01-06 14:34 half of them is due to vendor stupidity. the other half is in linux. 2013-01-06 14:34 it's for the case where the attacker is already root 2013-01-06 14:35 and tries to hide himself 2013-01-06 14:35 but if you're root, isn't it trivial to patch kernel memory? 2013-01-06 14:35 unless you have selinux or something like that 2013-01-06 14:35 where root isn't an actual root 2013-01-06 14:36 still makes it harder 2013-01-06 14:37 marginally IMO 2013-01-06 14:40 yea, I didn't really though about that you can still patch the kernel easily 2013-01-06 14:40 [commit] Werner Almesberger: README: add ubbctl and ubb-jtag (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/85ed493 2013-01-06 14:40 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c: add copyright header (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/fe96b3b 2013-01-06 14:40 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c (main): move pin status display to separate function (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/e6a0e42 2013-01-06 14:40 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c (main): add command line processing and usage display (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/33085ce 2013-01-06 14:40 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c (show_pins): also show level seen at pin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/77fd696 2013-01-06 14:40 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c (show_pins): indicate function pins with "F" instead of "FN" (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/5297de4 2013-01-06 14:41 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c: add setting of UBB signals (DAT0=1, etc.) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/246a8a0 2013-01-06 14:41 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c: add actions "on" and "off" to control nPWR (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/fd5707e 2013-01-06 14:52 jekhor has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2013-01-06 14:53 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 14:57 whitequark: (mindless bashing) bash, beat your windows every day, it will know why :) 2013-01-06 14:58 of course, in my case "my" windows would be a diffuse ambient condition 2013-01-06 14:58 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2013-01-06 15:00 Hoolxi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-01-06 15:01 jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 15:01 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 15:14 Hi! 2013-01-06 15:29 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 15:31 wolfspraul has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2013-01-06 15:44 liuqi has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 16:17 megha has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2013-01-06 16:17 hack has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 16:17 hack is now known as Guest17317 2013-01-06 16:28 Guest17317 is now known as hack 2013-01-06 16:28 hack has quit [Changing host] 2013-01-06 16:28 hack has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 16:34 hack has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2013-01-06 16:34 hack has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 16:43 wolfspra1l has quit [Quit: leaving] 2013-01-06 16:43 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 16:49 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/ubbctl.c: new option -c for continuous display (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/5fadbce 2013-01-06 16:49 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubbctl/README: short documentation (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/ed19239 2013-01-06 17:02 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 17:11 FrankBlues has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 17:55 fyi, CA warning: http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.com/2013/01/enhancing-digital-certificate-security.html 2013-01-06 17:58 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 18:15 hack is now known as megha 2013-01-06 18:52 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2013-01-06 19:00 megha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2013-01-06 19:13 megha has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 19:21 porchaso0 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 19:21 porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-01-06 19:24 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 19:25 porchaso0 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2013-01-06 19:34 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 19:43 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 19:53 DocScrutinizer05: that's bee on heise news a few days ago. certificate-based "trust" must die :) 2013-01-06 19:54 whitequark has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2013-01-06 19:55 bartbes has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2013-01-06 19:58 whitequark has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 19:59 wpwrak: I didn't say I invented it today 2013-01-06 19:59 better late than never, eh? 2013-01-06 20:00 ;-) 2013-01-06 20:00 well, TURKTRUST 2013-01-06 20:01 :-x 2013-01-06 20:01 "ooops we handed out a master cert by accident" - LOL 2013-01-06 20:02 "ooops again, even two" 2013-01-06 20:02 "but thanks for letting us know, we wouldn't have noticed otherwise" 2013-01-06 20:02 ah, you hadn't read it before ;-) 2013-01-06 20:03 I've read it 2h ago 2013-01-06 20:04 LunaVorax has quit [Read error: No route to host] 2013-01-06 20:04 when somebody informed me about the issue, since it is relevant for maemo-CSSU 2013-01-06 20:05 it potentially affects everyone using SSL 2013-01-06 20:07 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 20:08 wpwrak: can i use one instance of ubbctl to set ping status, and another instance of ubbctl to get pin status? 2013-01-06 20:11 kyak: yes, you can run as many ubbctls in parallel as you like. they don't conflict with each other. that it, unless they try to perform contradictory changes on the same pins 2013-01-06 20:11 nice :) 2013-01-06 20:11 but even then it's not certain you would get an invalid result 2013-01-06 20:16 (at least the static result should be identical, no matter how many concurrent setters you have. there may be transient states that differ between concurrent runs of ubbctl and unordered sequential runs, though) 2013-01-06 20:35 wpwrak: sure it affects everyone, but not everyone is responsible to fix the issue for ~60k other users 2013-01-06 20:36 that's the kind of relevance it has for maemo-CSSU 2013-01-06 20:36 heh :) 2013-01-06 20:41 and actually I had no time to read any Heise news lately, since my plate is already more than filled with migrating a complete infra (*.maemo.org) to a yet-to-be-defined new hoster and financial basis 2013-01-06 20:42 which gives me a headache every now and then, when I have to explain difference between a vhost and a RX300 rack 2013-01-06 20:44 porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2013-01-06 20:45 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 20:53 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 20:58 wpwrak: i'm packaging libubb and ubbctl. However, i noticed that you only provide libubb.a and you link ubbctl statically 2013-01-06 20:59 how about providing an libubb.so and linking ubbctl against it? I will then package both and ubbctl with depend on libubb 2013-01-06 21:09 yeah, i should probably do that. though i hate the version number management :) 2013-01-06 21:09 btw, it's working great 2013-01-06 21:09 but that'll have to wait until tomorrow. got a barbecue to go to now. 2013-01-06 21:10 kewl :-) and thanks for packaging ! 2013-01-06 21:10 np, have fun! 2013-01-06 21:52 thanks ! :) 2013-01-06 22:09 Jurting_pc2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-01-06 22:37 FrankBlues has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2013-01-06 22:41 Jurting_pc2 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 22:43 megha has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2013-01-06 22:51 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2013-01-06 22:58 megha has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 23:03 Jurting_pc2_ has joined #qi-hardware 2013-01-06 23:18 Jurting_pc2_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-01-06 23:53 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]