2012-12-31 00:00 I have not tried anything with lm8 .. I am fighting with libstdc++ problems with iverilog now 2012-12-31 00:34 [commit] Xiangfu: cgminer: disable curses support (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/959b320 2012-12-31 00:34 I may have a minsoc bitstream soon 2012-12-31 00:43 MistahDarcy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-12-31 00:55 wheee, 4 cores, 2 idle, one synthesizing Milkymist, one synthesizing Opencores MinSoC 2012-12-31 00:56 btw, I found the lm32 .. https://github.com/milkymist/lm32 2012-12-31 02:08 rz2k has quit [] 2012-12-31 02:27 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 2012-12-31 02:37 megharsh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 02:48 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-31 03:04 panda|x201 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 03:08 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 03:12 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-31 03:18 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 03:18 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-12-31 03:47 Jay7 has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-12-31 03:47 Jay7 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 04:03 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-12-31 04:03 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 04:20 panda|x201 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-12-31 04:43 wpwrak: the funny fact is, *every* atmega could be replaced with a cheaper STM32 chip 2012-12-31 04:43 literally every 2012-12-31 04:50 that doesn't make sense 2012-12-31 04:51 e.g., this one is USD 1.08 @ 100: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATMEGA48A-AU/ATMEGA48A-AU-ND/2271038 2012-12-31 04:51 the cheapest STM32 is 1.926 2012-12-31 04:54 grmbl. i load a busy loop into that LPC111x and it draws LESS current than the boot loader ?? 2012-12-31 04:54 at least this tells me that something has changed. don't see any I/O activity yet 2012-12-31 04:55 now .. where's the stupid bug that keeps all this from working ... 2012-12-31 05:04 wpwrak: hm. yes. well, not literally. 2012-12-31 05:05 I missed something somewhere. 2012-12-31 05:06 wpwrak: I thought a lot if I should provide an AVR backend for my language implementation 2012-12-31 05:07 LLVM already has one; it seems that it could only work in quite a restricted mode compared to things I could freely do on 32-bit MCUs 2012-12-31 05:07 this is true of GCC as well, of course 2012-12-31 05:08 basically I decided to concentrate on ARM, more precisely Cortex-M3, first, and then see if/where should I expand the support. 2012-12-31 05:09 makes sense. first see if the concept works at all, then go multiplatform 2012-12-31 05:09 exactly 2012-12-31 05:13 victory ! :) 2012-12-31 05:14 had to set the LSB in vectors to indicate thumb mode. duh. 2012-12-31 05:15 yeah. sometimes you need to fight with assembler to do that :) 2012-12-31 05:16 it's all in C. i'm holding them to their promise that you can use that chip without ever touching assembler 2012-12-31 05:16 i do check the assembler, though ;-) 2012-12-31 05:16 yeah, I like how the interrupt controller implements EABI itself 2012-12-31 05:17 it seems that they tried to pack half of an RTOS in hardware and succeeded 2012-12-31 05:17 indeed ;-) 2012-12-31 05:18 also. not sure about NXP, but STM32 makes peripherals in a kinda nice way which for 80% of cases basically allows to chain them with DMA and trigger lines 2012-12-31 05:18 so that you don't even need to handle interrupts, most of the time 2012-12-31 05:18 yay power consumption 2012-12-31 05:19 (and the fact that I can take a user-readable map for such interaction written in Ruby, process it on the host and turn into register values, all without bothering the user too much ;) 2012-12-31 05:20 i don't see DMA in my chip. it's a pretty low-endish one anyway. 2012-12-31 05:28 wpwrak: another very, very nice thing is how I avoid checking bounds on most array accesses yet make accidental memory corruption pretty hard 2012-12-31 05:28 the point is, you very rarely need to "just" index an element in an array 2012-12-31 05:29 almost all time you want to iterate it, or maybe add data to circular buffer, or push something onto stack, or whatever. so... 2012-12-31 05:30 yes, if your compiler can figure out what the loops do, it can do the check outside the loop, and even decide it doesn't need one if the bounds are constant 2012-12-31 05:31 simpler 2012-12-31 05:31 http://pastie.org/5600666 2012-12-31 05:31 (LLVM does what you say, through) 2012-12-31 05:32 the trick is to use closures whenever possible 2012-12-31 05:33 in a very similar way, you could update elements in an array with #map! method, compute a sum (or any different derivative) with #reduce 2012-12-31 05:33 yeah, a higher-level pattern to analyze then 2012-12-31 05:33 I don't even need to analyze anything 2012-12-31 05:34 I just spare the user from writing indexing code manually in most of the cases, and the problem with incorrect manually written indexing code fades away :) 2012-12-31 05:36 it is amazing how much errors you can eradicate by basically just shuffling code around, with nothing to pay at runtime, and without complex and possibly flawed static analysis 2012-12-31 05:37 my main optimization is inlining, as you can see. I inline methods and closures, everything, and up to the point where nothing else could be inlined. (In fact, I internally implement methods as closures.) 2012-12-31 05:38 and, again, I don't need anything too complex; performance impact of inlining all the simple cases dwarfs all the other ones, combined 2012-12-31 05:39 inlining (combined with SSA and escape analysis) is also how I infer types. without knowing what #each does, it won't be possible to determine the type of `val' inside the closure 2012-12-31 05:42 (SSA helps to figure out types for variables. e.g. `if foo; a = 1; else a = "bar"; end' is an error) 2012-12-31 05:45 hmm. given a symbol whose address is known at link time. i want to use the negative address in a constant initializer. seems impossible, doesn't it ? 2012-12-31 05:45 (it's to calculate a checksum) 2012-12-31 05:46 hm 2012-12-31 05:46 I think it is possible 2012-12-31 05:47 with linker scripts you can perform arbitrary arithmetics on symbol addresses, so define `b = 0 - a', and then use `&b' in your initializer 2012-12-31 05:47 this *should* work 2012-12-31 05:47 in fact, simply use 0 - &b in your initializer. 2012-12-31 05:47 and -Os 2012-12-31 05:48 ah, that's a good idea. let's see if ld likes it, too 2012-12-31 05:49 the latter won't work: test.c:2:10: error: initializer element is not a compile-time constant 2012-12-31 05:49 (yeah, it's a link-time one. relocs probably cannot express the relation required here.) 2012-12-31 05:51 doing the - in the linker script seems to do the trick. lemme check the math ... 2012-12-31 05:52 wpwrak: http://pastie.org/5600702 2012-12-31 05:52 works :) 2012-12-31 05:53 just -a works 2012-12-31 05:53 oh. 2012-12-31 05:53 thanks ! now i have a nice solution :) 2012-12-31 05:54 you're welcome 2012-12-31 05:54 btw, why would you want such a checksum? 2012-12-31 05:55 the LPC111x boot loader uses that to determine whether the vector table is valid 2012-12-31 05:56 I see 2012-12-31 05:56 what do you do with that nxp thingy? a new qi-hw project? 2012-12-31 05:58 i'll use it to control my LED bar 2012-12-31 05:58 (btw, do check the errata list for your MCU. nxp is famous for not fixing obvious bugs :/) 2012-12-31 05:59 (on the other hand, STM kinda tends to miss them. a guy I know recently found that if PLL freq >= 64 MHz and MCU is put to sleep, it'll never wake up. Errata updated :) 2012-12-31 06:00 (problems with NXP included something like non-working SD card boot in revs A-F, which was found in rev A) 2012-12-31 06:01 "let's not fix this since somebody may depend on that feature" :) 2012-12-31 06:01 I don't even want to know what was in the head of a manager who decided to avoid fixing that 2012-12-31 06:02 it may be just that 2012-12-31 06:02 well, they fixed it eventually 2012-12-31 06:02 they have lots of little feature updates. but each gets a new part number, not just a chip revision. 2012-12-31 06:03 of course, it's next to impossible to buy the right revision 2012-12-31 06:03 and none of the 3rd-party developer boards would have it 2012-12-31 06:04 get to know your FAE and treat him well :) 2012-12-31 06:04 FAE? 2012-12-31 06:04 field applications engineer? 2012-12-31 06:05 Field Application Engineer. the hybrid sales/tech critter manufacturers send to their "good" customers. 2012-12-31 06:05 oh, I also have a nice story about TI 2012-12-31 06:06 the same guy bought a Smart Battery System devkit 2012-12-31 06:06 you know, the one where battery authenticates the host via RSA (or something like that) prior to providing the power, and commits suicide if you try to update its EEPROM a little too hard 2012-12-31 06:07 (I still have no idea why battery authenticates the host and not vice-versa) 2012-12-31 06:07 sounds like a fun concept :) 2012-12-31 06:07 it's probably in your notebook, if you have one 2012-12-31 06:07 *laptop 2012-12-31 06:08 so, he buys this devkit, plays with it for some time and forgets for half a year 2012-12-31 06:08 after that, he tries to redownload the datasheet. boom, there is zero hits on TI site by partnumber 2012-12-31 06:08 he asks the support where the datasheet is and gets a reply that they don't have such a part and never did 2012-12-31 06:09 he shows them the order number and photos 2012-12-31 06:09 and GETS BANNED. 2012-12-31 06:09 ;-) 2012-12-31 06:09 how the...? I don't even understand how such a thing is even possible?! 2012-12-31 06:10 and why?! 2012-12-31 06:10 that would usually be a good moment to talk to some friends in the press. make sure whatever TI are trying to cover up gets as much coverage as possible :) 2012-12-31 06:10 the parts with adjacent numbers are still there 2012-12-31 06:10 heh 2012-12-31 06:12 for me, this just doesn't make a slightest bit of sense 2012-12-31 06:13 wpwrak: talking about FAE... http://www.faemagazine.com/ 2012-12-31 06:14 this is even metaphorically related 2012-12-31 06:15 ;-)) 2012-12-31 06:20 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/lpc111x.c: if file argument is given, flash that file (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/66d0913 2012-12-31 06:20 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/lpc111x.c: new option -r to reset the target and let it run (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/c7a7d35 2012-12-31 06:20 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/test/: proof of concept LED-blinking code (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/49ff81f 2012-12-31 06:21 wpwrak: btw, do you have a degree in EE? or another kind of finished formal education? 2012-12-31 06:21 electronics-related, that is 2012-12-31 06:22 well, there was a bit of electronics in comp. sci. and i have a phd in communication systems. (though that didn't involve the lower layers) 2012-12-31 06:23 so the qi-hw stuff i'm playing with is mostly DIY learning 2012-12-31 06:23 megharsh has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-12-31 06:24 I wonder how would the fact that I'm a college dropout affect my employment (if the language thingy doesn't take off). Programming websites in ruby is nice, but it's definitely not what I'd like to do for the rest of my life. 2012-12-31 06:25 (and that what I learned has nothing to do with CS nor EE) 2012-12-31 06:27 makes things more difficult, of course. it helps if you make projects that have a lot of visibility. 2012-12-31 06:30 (on the other hand, I'd need some kind of degree to emigrate anyway, so...) 2012-12-31 06:32 degrees are useful to keep the paper-pushers happy :) 2012-12-31 06:32 this is their main purpose :) 2012-12-31 06:33 I've seen vacancies for cleaners with a degree. not joking. 2012-12-31 06:35 somebody must be enjoying that 2012-12-31 06:37 well, it is not like HRs were extra clever anyway. another example: mail.ru (think russian yahoo) HR once interviewed my now-colleague. half a year (sic) later they send him a e-mail, say that they lost the results (sic) and ask him to come again 2012-12-31 06:37 megharsh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 06:38 this is slightly below the median. again, I wish I was joking. 2012-12-31 06:40 the world needs stupid people to keep the IQ balanced :) 2012-12-31 07:40 xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-12-31 07:40 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 07:54 megharsh has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-31 07:56 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-12-31 08:08 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 08:17 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2012-12-31 08:29 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 08:39 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-31 08:53 qwebirc19260 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 08:54 hello 2012-12-31 09:05 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 09:16 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 09:18 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 09:22 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-12-31 09:41 qwebirc19260 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 2012-12-31 10:14 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2012-12-31 10:26 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 10:28 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 10:29 porchaso0 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-31 10:29 I've an old bttv card... does anybody have experience with that? 2012-12-31 10:33 porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-12-31 10:33 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 10:51 viric: i used to watch tv on that kind of critter 2012-12-31 10:52 it's a hell 2012-12-31 10:52 I used one slot, it said it can't route irq or so 2012-12-31 10:52 I used another slot, and the system doesn't see it 2012-12-31 10:52 and I don't have more slots 2012-12-31 10:53 What's a cheap device to capture from S-video or so, these days? 2012-12-31 10:54 wpwrak: http://www.pcbox.com/comprar-capturadora-de-video-woxter-i-video-capture-20-usb-2-0_wox72.aspx?ch=000002051100020107120312080212f151ac64e56250aca4c1d1e31155551c0#.UOFuzBBuO00 this looks good, no? 2012-12-31 10:55 then it'd have to work in linux. frightening 2012-12-31 10:57 the only usb thing I see in the kernel is Empia EM28xx USB video capture support 2012-12-31 11:00 hmm, back then the bttv just worked :) and yes, that was under linux, of course 2012-12-31 11:01 wpwrak: when I can make bttv load, it says it doesn't identify my card though 2012-12-31 11:01 (card=somenumber, tuner=somenumber, mess) 2012-12-31 11:02 ah, i think the tuner was a parameter you sometimes had to set 2012-12-31 11:02 for some reason it couldn't always autoprobe it 2012-12-31 11:03 one chip, hundreds of incompatible boards 2012-12-31 11:04 the thing is that it's multiple chips and there seem to be lots of different tuner chips (on I2C) 2012-12-31 11:09 yep 2012-12-31 11:09 ok, found one USB that should be supported by linux! 2012-12-31 11:09 megharsh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 11:09 'Conceptronic Home Video Creator', 20€, EM2862 chipset 2012-12-31 11:10 kuribas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 11:14 you should be able to identify the tuner of your bttv by looking at the board. then you can set the module parameter. 2012-12-31 11:16 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-12-31 11:27 kuribas has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 2012-12-31 11:37 megharsh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-12-31 11:39 wpwrak: but bttv doesn't even identify the card 2012-12-31 11:41 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 11:42 you mean on PCI ? 2012-12-31 11:43 bttv knows the pci card is for him 2012-12-31 11:43 but it says "unknown card" 2012-12-31 11:43 maybe google for the exact error message. there's always someone who's solved the same problem. 2012-12-31 11:43 (or for the message sequence) 2012-12-31 11:43 I tried 2012-12-31 11:44 and I didn't find anything 2012-12-31 11:45 look for the PCI ID ? 2012-12-31 11:46 xxxx:xxxx "unknown card" 2012-12-31 11:51 megharsh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 11:56 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-12-31 12:10 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 12:12 wpwrak: nah, the pciid is found fine. otherwise bttv wouldn't be loaded. 2012-12-31 12:12 wpwrak: it's bttv that doesn't know what's "in the card" 2012-12-31 12:12 it's a messy world. 2012-12-31 12:12 I just bought a usb card 2012-12-31 12:12 I've to hope it will work 2012-12-31 12:15 the PCI ID would be the key to problem reports that then dig deeper 2012-12-31 12:16 I've made that card work 2012-12-31 12:16 the usual procedure is "pass card=somenumber", testing different numbers, until it will work 2012-12-31 12:16 But I made that work years ago. And now, one pci slot can't route the irq properly, the other doesn't show the pci card at all 2012-12-31 12:17 some posts say that these cards don't work well with pci irq sharing, ... 2012-12-31 12:17 I've no hope in it anymore. 2012-12-31 12:17 how easily we give up :) 2012-12-31 12:17 ;) yes 2012-12-31 12:18 I could improve the bttv driver and make it work, I know ;) 2012-12-31 12:19 or just find the right settings :) 2012-12-31 12:22 among 140 different cards implemented? 2012-12-31 12:22 ehem 2012-12-31 12:22 Ok, the usb dongle works! I've the vcr signal :) 2012-12-31 12:22 quite noisy 2012-12-31 12:23 supported norms: 0 = NTSC; 1 = NTSC-M; 2 = NTSC-M-JP; 3 = NTSC-M-KR; 4 = NTSC-443; 5 SECAM; 15 = SECAM-B; 16 = SECAM-G; 17 = SECAM-H; 18 = SECAM-DK; 19 = SECAM-L; 20 = SEC 2012-12-31 12:23 that's no PAL? grmbl 2012-12-31 12:23 oh. so you went to a shop. i thought you had ordered the USB critter online. 2012-12-31 12:23 nah 2012-12-31 12:23 I dislike online. 2012-12-31 12:23 I like going back to the shop, saying "It doesn't work for me", and getting the money back 2012-12-31 12:23 In the linux world, it happens from time to time. 2012-12-31 12:26 heh :) 2012-12-31 12:26 just thought today wouldn't be a good day for going to a physical shop 2012-12-31 12:27 mh RCA gives a much better picture than s-video 2012-12-31 12:29 snd 2012-12-31 12:30 old, proven technology :) 2012-12-31 12:33 now I wonder how can I make the alsa 'record device' go to my alsa 'playback device' 2012-12-31 12:41 that's the problem with solving problems. solving an easy one immediately unlocks a much harder one. 2012-12-31 12:50 it's choppy. no idea why. 2012-12-31 12:51 USB :) 2012-12-31 12:52 I think the card delivers audio only every 0.5s 2012-12-31 12:53 bwahaha 2012-12-31 12:53 why bother at all ? :) 2012-12-31 12:54 I want to save some VCR 2012-12-31 12:54 no, i mean: why do they bother at all to pretend to provide audio if it's unusable 2012-12-31 12:55 are there maybe any interesting complaints in dmesg ? 2012-12-31 12:55 bartbes_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 12:55 bartbes__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-31 12:56 hm no, it's fine 2012-12-31 12:56 of could that USB critter be on a problem port and/or sharing the hub with company that's too numerous or too nasty ? 2012-12-31 12:56 (the internal hub) 2012-12-31 12:56 it'd be weird. 2012-12-31 12:57 I don't think so. I think it's more related to buffering 2012-12-31 12:58 500 ms is pure evil 2012-12-31 13:04 [commit] Werner Almesberger: libubb/README: document GPIO and register access (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/9d29821 2012-12-31 13:04 [commit] Werner Almesberger: libubb/README: describe how to get rid of competing drivers (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/506db2d 2012-12-31 13:07 no idea 2012-12-31 13:07 it's a hell 2012-12-31 13:08 mplayer plays the video fine, but with audio, no. 2012-12-31 13:08 If mplayer plays the video, then 'arecord' in parallel can record the sound perfect. 2012-12-31 13:19 http://memegenerator.net/instance/32699209 2012-12-31 13:20 ha 2012-12-31 14:02 xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-12-31 14:03 viric: (buying online) I prefer to check if it works _prior_ to buying anything. 2012-12-31 14:03 this tends to be slightly more effective ;) 2012-12-31 14:13 it's a pain to do that 2012-12-31 14:14 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 14:15 wait, I don't get it 2012-12-31 14:15 oh nevermind 2012-12-31 14:17 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-31 14:26 forums and forums and forums 2012-12-31 14:26 for the case, all I find about the card I have is that it works for them. 2012-12-31 14:28 viric: make sure you post your negative experience, so the next poor fellow is warned :) 2012-12-31 14:28 :) 2012-12-31 14:50 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-31 14:55 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 14:57 at the end of the day, it works in Linux. What else do we want? :) 2012-12-31 14:59 make the part of the day before the happy end pass faster ? :) 2012-12-31 15:02 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 15:17 wpwrak: what about a command to read pin status in libubb? 2012-12-31 15:17 so... anyone looked into USB-3.0? 2012-12-31 15:18 hozer: as in "look in a hole that represents USB 3.0 port on my laptop", i did :) 2012-12-31 15:18 hah 2012-12-31 15:19 * hozer is a masochist, I want to design a USB 3.0 serdes 2012-12-31 15:20 cause, well, the infiniband-fpga is still too niche for anyone to care 2012-12-31 15:20 or at least figure out if the xilinx LX25T could do thunderbolt and/or usb3.0 2012-12-31 15:20 err xcs6LX25T 2012-12-31 15:22 oh, and neat toy: http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/TH05.html 2012-12-31 15:29 hozer: cool 2012-12-31 15:29 AFAIK there is no open EHCI controller now 2012-12-31 15:29 not even talking about XHCI 2012-12-31 15:33 hrrm 2012-12-31 15:34 anyone else want to help me write a patent for 2X DDR Infiniband over a Thunderbolt cable? ;) 2012-12-31 15:35 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-31 15:35 I'd say forget about XHCI nonsense and let's just use infiniband for open hardware (and let someone else make an IB to USB3.0 bridge chip) 2012-12-31 15:37 http://bitspjoule.org/hg/Brick/ has a patent template 2012-12-31 15:39 kyak: the PIN(mask) macro does that. see the README for all the details :) 2012-12-31 15:40 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 15:44 hozer: combine with a nonsense text generator and you can automatically file a few hundred patents per day. that should be a useful portfolio. whenever something new pops up, you search your nonsense patents for a match. every once in a while you ought to have something ... 2012-12-31 15:46 wpwrak: it costs $125 a pop to file 2012-12-31 15:46 so I think it would work better if there were humans in the loop 2012-12-31 15:47 oh, that's US patents. I have no idea about international stuff 2012-12-31 15:51 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 15:52 $125 isn't all that much. humans are far more expensive. 2012-12-31 15:53 okay fine, write me a nonsense patent generator and I'll start filing them :) 2012-12-31 15:53 you can have 25% of the patent license fees recovered ;) 2012-12-31 15:54 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 15:56 hozer: why XHCI is nonsense? it's industry standard and soon it will be everywhere. 2012-12-31 15:57 show me the vhdl :P 2012-12-31 15:57 hozer: use the spec to write one 2012-12-31 15:57 there's an opencores usb2.0 host, right? 2012-12-31 15:58 hozer: as far as I know, no. but my knowledge might be outdated. let me check 2012-12-31 16:00 yeah, it doesn't seem there is an EHCI controller on opencores 2012-12-31 16:16 megharsh is now known as superbot 2012-12-31 16:19 hozer: http://contextfreepatentart.tumblr.com/ 2012-12-31 16:19 and say this is not a production of a nonsense generator. 2012-12-31 16:19 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 16:23 http://contextfreepatentart.tumblr.com/post/37789336964 haha I love the "personal information" arrows 2012-12-31 16:37 or http://contextfreepatentart.tumblr.com/image/28767396024 2012-12-31 16:42 is that a patent on patentophobia ? 2012-12-31 16:43 I can't seem to find a PDF 2012-12-31 16:43 wolfspra1l has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-12-31 16:43 maybe that's for the better :) 2012-12-31 16:43 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 16:44 oh indeed 2012-12-31 16:45 ha. this new year eve resembles for me exactly what it is: just another regular day. and I like it. 2012-12-31 16:46 mwic has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 16:46 low paranoia, moderate anger ? :) 2012-12-31 16:47 wpwrak: I think you might have a slightly biased view of me now :) stuff tends to accumulate for months. 2012-12-31 16:47 ;-) 2012-12-31 16:48 more like the opposite. doing socially expected stuff at socially expected holidays can be quite stressful. 2012-12-31 16:48 indeed. the famous xmas effect. all those family dramas and so on. 2012-12-31 16:49 hm, I never encountered this as a well-known effect. just an observation. through this doesn't surprise me 2012-12-31 16:50 i don't know if it has an official name. but each year around this time people get crazy. 2012-12-31 16:51 particularly towards the 24th, of course. the 31st tends to be much better. 2012-12-31 16:52 here it is slightly different. almost no one celebrates 24th. those who do, make it at Jan 7th "old style" (calendar change, etc.) 2012-12-31 16:52 but it's not much either 2012-12-31 16:52 so all the insanity dumps into the air at 31th 2012-12-31 16:52 i guess all those who feel that certain urge to kill their family/significant other/previous significant other/neighbours/etc. or be killed by them will have had opportunities to do so by now, so things are less tense 2012-12-31 16:52 ah, i see 2012-12-31 16:53 other countries, other insanity days :) 2012-12-31 16:55 yeah. I think it's due to the fact that USSR tried to eradicate religious holidays, with quite some success 2012-12-31 16:55 not a bad idea 2012-12-31 16:56 why? 2012-12-31 16:57 disentangle things a bit. well, depends on whether they remove them or whether they replace them with equally arbitrary holidays. 2012-12-31 16:58 of course, they replace with arbitrarily holidays. with names which make some religious things look perfectly sensible in comparison 2012-12-31 16:58 *arbitrary 2012-12-31 16:59 ha, it dawned on me that you (and anyone non-russian, for that matter) probably don't know anything about our holidays :) let me elaborate then 2012-12-31 17:00 there isn't much of them. Main ones: 2012-12-31 17:00 Jurting_pc2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-12-31 17:02 1. Dec 31st. New Year, all that. Celebrated by gifting neatly packaged stuff (only children are lucky enough to get anything actually useful), dressing a fir tree in glass balls/figurines and colorful ribbons, and heavy drinking. 2012-12-31 17:02 two weeks before everything is paralyzed due to sheer traffic. week after is simply dead. two weeks after early brids return to work. 2012-12-31 17:03 everything kinda returns to normal to early-mid february 2012-12-31 17:05 Jurting_pc2 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 17:05 2. Feb 23th. Day of Motherland's Defender (or something like that). Basically boys' day. (It is quite ironic that probably most of the people getting greetings on this day never were in army and have absolutely no intent). Celebrated by gifting cheap pens and notepads. Not a national holiday AFAIK. 2012-12-31 17:07 3. May 8th. International Woman's Day. (Is it actually "international"? I'm not sure.) Basically girls' day, symmetric to the previous one. Equally useless gifts, also flowers. 2012-12-31 17:07 er, March 8th, of course 2012-12-31 17:10 4. May 9th. Day of Victory (in WW2). Celebrated by wearing these bands http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/1//58/652/58652752_5116_1.jpg in places appropriate and not (they'll hang from everywhere for several extra months), saying how all of you are proud of veterans due to whom you're currently alive, and having no respect whatsoever to said veterans. (I wish I was being sarcastic.) Fortunately, soon there won't be any left to obser 2012-12-31 17:11 ve this shame, and it'll become just another day to drink on. National holiday. Usually clustered with a few more days off, producing a total clusterfuck in calendar where weekdays are arbitrarily shuffled. 2012-12-31 17:11 (I never understood what logic do they use to reorder days. It is incredibly confusing, and also some institutions suddenly decide they won't live up to a national standard. Like schools.) 2012-12-31 17:13 31st sounds like 24/25th in the west 2012-12-31 17:13 except that, at least in the northern hemisphere, people return to work relatively soon thereafter 2012-12-31 17:14 in the southern hemisphere, this marks the begining of the summer holiday season 2012-12-31 17:15 5. Sep 1th. Day of Knowledge. Celebrated by observing kids on the internet and facepalming. Seriously now: everyone goes to school; kids in primary and middle school bring tons of flowers and chocolate to teachers. 2012-12-31 17:15 High school, basically the same, less flowers. University: even less flowers. 2012-12-31 17:16 day of knowledge sounds sweet :) 2012-12-31 17:16 well, chocolate and flowers are the default gift for women here 2012-12-31 17:16 used on all holidays. it's just that teachers, especially in primary/middle school, are mostly women 2012-12-31 17:17 one can end up with 5-8 packs of chocolate sweets at the end of the day 2012-12-31 17:17 useful for fattening up for that harsh russian winter 2012-12-31 17:18 FrankBlues has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-31 17:19 hmm, let me check if I missed something. is looking up holidays of your own country on wikipedia that bad?.. 2012-12-31 17:20 ah, Jan 14th, "Old New Year". Oxymoron intended. Basically you have a week starting at 31th, 7th and 14th to begin drinking and get rid of hangover to prepare for the next one. 2012-12-31 17:20 Or just do it non-stop. 2012-12-31 17:20 also calendar-related quirk. 2012-12-31 17:21 lolwtf, Jan 14th is also Day of Creation of Pipeline Carrier Armed Forces. 2012-12-31 17:21 Stalin surely had a sense of humor. 2012-12-31 17:22 Jan 25th, Day of students. Day when MSU was founded. Nothing really interesting. 2012-12-31 17:22 i find argentine holidays here: http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/asuntos_politicos_y_alectorales/dinap/feriados.php?idName=asuntos&idNameSubMenu=DiNAP&idNameSubMenuDer=DirNAPFeriados#feriados/feriados2013.php 2012-12-31 17:22 as you can see, there's quite a lot of them. some get added during the year. 2012-12-31 17:23 Feb 14th, you know what it is. Quite a lot of Russian nationalists hate it as being too west-related 2012-12-31 17:23 wpwrak: yeah, I'm looking through a similar list, but filter obvious nonsense and things that no one knows about (except bureaucrats) 2012-12-31 17:23 anyone got csg324 package libs for KiCad? 2012-12-31 17:24 hozer: we have something called "BGA-324", 15x15 mm, 0.8 mm pitch. does that fit ? 2012-12-31 17:25 it's in bga.fpd 2012-12-31 17:25 that seems like it 2012-12-31 17:25 here's the catalog: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/kicad-libs-modules.pdf 2012-12-31 17:26 and here for schematics symbols: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/kicad-libs-components.pdf 2012-12-31 17:26 yeah, but where can I just 'apt-get install' it from :P 2012-12-31 17:26 you check out the repository :) 2012-12-31 17:26 so here's a theory.. say I lay out a board with Kicad, and annotate all the pins 2012-12-31 17:26 no, not yet :) 2012-12-31 17:27 and then I change out a Xilinx FT256 (17mmx17mm, 1.0 pitch), for a CSG324 2012-12-31 17:27 and for modules, you also need to convert: check out and install fped (or apt-get install it - it's now in debian), then run "make" in kicad-libs/modules/ 2012-12-31 17:28 there should, in theory be some way to generate the part of the constraints file and auto-route the pcb, right? 2012-12-31 17:28 huh ? not sure what you mean 2012-12-31 17:28 what means "annotate all the pins" ? 2012-12-31 17:28 when you make an fpga bitstream, you have this file that 'constrains' all the signals to physical pins on the fpga part 2012-12-31 17:28 and what autorouter to you mean ? freeroute ? 2012-12-31 17:29 oh, that. well, kicad knows nothing about that :) 2012-12-31 17:29 I have no idea, I've never actually done this, but this is what I *want* to be able to do 2012-12-31 17:30 you could make such a tool. of course, you'd want such tools for a great many other things, too. 2012-12-31 17:30 so if I have a board, with a schematic, and I have an FPGA signal named MGTRXN1, and it's wired to pin5 on a mini-displayport or something 2012-12-31 17:30 in the end, everybody does these mappings manually ... 2012-12-31 17:30 yes, i understand. and it would be the same for, say, microcontrollers. 2012-12-31 17:30 yep 2012-12-31 17:31 i.e., "the gpio that connects to the green led" 2012-12-31 17:31 *exactly* 2012-12-31 17:31 and you type 'make' and the PCB autorouter and the FPGA placer go fight over what pin on the fpga (or micro) it gets 2012-12-31 17:31 as far as i know, no tool that lets you work at that level exists 2012-12-31 17:32 and we don't have a usable autorouter anyway :) 2012-12-31 17:32 heh, why not ;) 2012-12-31 17:32 you can choose between one that's open but doesn't work, and one that does work but is closed 2012-12-31 17:33 so what's the open one that's busted 2012-12-31 17:34 the one built into kicad. or at least it was there. may have been dropped since. 2012-12-31 17:34 there's also an autoplacer that visually shows how kicad is looking for the worst possible placement. that makes it not only unusable but also incredibly slow. 2012-12-31 17:35 i'd consider these critters misguided practical jokes 2012-12-31 17:35 besides, an auto-whatever is rarely good enough to get the job done 2012-12-31 17:35 interactive routers are much more useful 2012-12-31 17:36 okay, does kicad have that? 2012-12-31 17:36 ionly the external web-based and closed "freerouter" 2012-12-31 17:37 so the ideal situation is the interactive router knows that there are X number of possible pins my LED wire can go to on the micro 2012-12-31 17:37 yes, something like that 2012-12-31 17:37 this is still really an art, isn't it? 2012-12-31 17:37 when push-routing, it could then not only push traces out of the way, but also swap them as suitable 2012-12-31 17:38 yes, pretty much 2012-12-31 17:38 that sophisticated pattern matching engine we carry around in our skulls is still rather impressive :) 2012-12-31 17:41 kyak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-12-31 17:42 wpwrak: http://www.calend.ru/holidays/russtate/ the full list 2012-12-31 17:43 hozer: I recommend to check out topological interactive router, TopoR 2012-12-31 17:44 http://eda.eremex.com/ this I think 2012-12-31 17:44 source? 2012-12-31 17:45 proprietary 2012-12-31 17:45 baaaaaaaaahhh humbug 2012-12-31 17:45 it makes some pretty damn cool art 2012-12-31 17:45 but it's the only autorouter known to me which actually produces very decent results 2012-12-31 17:45 hozer: also, less crosstalk :) 2012-12-31 17:46 well, I want to use the same damn router for PCB that I use for silicon 2012-12-31 17:46 so I think I'm off on a 10-year Don Quixote quest 2012-12-31 17:46 hmm 2012-12-31 17:46 do you route and manufacture silicon? I want to look at it :) 2012-12-31 17:46 not yet. ;) 2012-12-31 17:47 currently I buy 30 year old farm equipment for scrap metal price+10%, and fix it 2012-12-31 17:47 interesting process. what do you want to achieve? 2012-12-31 17:47 have you heard of http://opensourceecology.org/ ? 2012-12-31 17:48 so sometime in the next 15 years I'll need to replace undocumented micros from bankrupt companies to get the old farm equipment working 2012-12-31 17:48 I'm amused by them. 2012-12-31 17:48 I love the excitement, but I don't think any of them have ever actually grown enough food to survive for a year 2012-12-31 17:49 I don't see how this is bad 2012-12-31 17:49 it's not like, for example, Qi HW is self-sustainable either... 2012-12-31 17:49 they are excited about the 'lifetrac' , but don't seem to have any understanding of the practical reasons why the design of a tractor hasn't fundamentally changed in 30 years 2012-12-31 17:50 what's changed on the tractor is addition of silicon... thus anyone getting into farming *now* will need Qi-HW 2012-12-31 17:50 hozer: what's wrong with lifetrac? 2012-12-31 17:51 hrrm. 2012-12-31 17:53 it's kinda like trying to use an FPGA on a high-volume production item where power consumption and battery life is critical 2012-12-31 17:53 Lifetrac is basically a skid-loader, and does not work very well at all as a tractor 2012-12-31 17:53 and having it try to do both functions makes it bad at both 2012-12-31 17:54 tractors are designed to pull, thus the big wheels in back, and engine up front 2012-12-31 17:56 well, it's not like they actually can do mass-production yet. maybe it's better to use an FPGA at this stage. 2012-12-31 17:57 they seem to do a lot of real, tangible work. I'd love to see what comes out. 2012-12-31 17:58 yeah 2012-12-31 17:58 the thing is I bought a perfectly good tractor for $2500 2012-12-31 17:59 they spend quite a bit more than that fabricating the lifetrac 2012-12-31 17:59 that's not the labor, that's just the materials 2012-12-31 18:00 now, if I could put some open-source GPS receivers and a network on my 30 year old combine, THAT would provide some real productivity gains 2012-12-31 18:00 the best thing the OSE guys are doing is making open-source machine tools 2012-12-31 18:01 so I could make a cold saw from their designs and cut and fabricate replacement parts from a scrap pile 2012-12-31 18:03