2012-12-29 00:01 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-29 00:01 [commit] Werner Almesberger: libubb/swuart.c: don't open/close UBB (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6614209 2012-12-29 00:02 [commit] Werner Almesberger: swuart-chat/chat.c: open/close UBB explicitly (tracking API change) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/ace55ff 2012-12-29 00:02 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/: Ben-based in-system programmer (ISP) for NXP LPC111x chips (WIP) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/eea0484 2012-12-29 00:04 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-12-29 00:06 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 00:26 Mistah_Darcy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-12-29 00:26 Mistah_Darcy has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 00:29 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2012-12-29 00:35 Mistah_Darcy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-29 01:41 bzb has joined #qi-hardware 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10:39 a qi-hw stand at ehsm would have been great :) 2012-12-29 10:47 i was more thinking of trying to see if, say, CERN could be interested in sponsoring/contracting/... some of out activities 2012-12-29 10:48 so that's less a thing you do at a booth but a thing you discuss over lunch or dinner 2012-12-29 10:50 on the hardware side of qihw, we have a bunch of things, but all of the recent stuff is fairly scattered. so the project isn't quite in a quite booth-worthy state 2012-12-29 11:27 hmm, i'm getting good at that stuff. lately, all the little boards i make just work, maybe except for some minor soldering problems. 2012-12-29 11:28 not so long ago, it took me a number of spins just to kill the severe design flaws 2012-12-29 11:28 (right now: nxp lpc111x mcu and a DC-DC converter. admittedly none of this rocket science, but still) 2012-12-29 11:30 three more major subsystems in this design, though: memory card, a fancy switch, and an acceleration sensor. card holder and sensor are new, the switch i've used before. 2012-12-29 11:34 practice makes perfect, they say 2012-12-29 11:37 You may want to think about a change in career if you get worse at something the more you do it ;) 2012-12-29 11:38 naw, that means that you've reached nirvana 2012-12-29 11:50 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/lpc111x.c: restructure code (WIP) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/5487578 2012-12-29 11:50 [commit] Werner Almesberger: libubb/swuart.c: use mlockall to prevent page faults with interrupts off (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/e4f8b97 2012-12-29 11:50 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/lpc111x.c: option -v to control verbosity level (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/c4d64fa 2012-12-29 11:50 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/lpc111x.c: add printf-style dialog() variants (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/0553fed 2012-12-29 11:50 [commit] Werner Almesberger: lpc111x-isp/lpc111x.c: flesh out device identification (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/90d39d3 2012-12-29 12:02 Jay7 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-12-29 12:02 Jay7 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 12:19 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 12:54 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 13:01 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 13:14 mirko has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-12-29 13:14 mirko has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 14:00 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-12-29 14:01 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 14:28 pcercuei has quit [Quit: Bye] 2012-12-29 15:37 xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-12-29 15:40 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-29 15:45 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 16:26 mth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 16:41 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-29 16:42 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 16:44 whitequark: you are famous :) 2012-12-29 16:48 wpwrak: time to get into ceramics? :-) 2012-12-29 16:52 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 17:02 kristianpaul: hmm, ceramics ? 2012-12-29 17:04 or was other tech you were interested? 2012-12-29 17:05 anyway have fun as always :-) 2012-12-29 17:05 i really like those tiny boards and software tools you made for then 2012-12-29 17:05 emeb has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-12-29 17:09 (other tech) ah yes, quantum-chemistry :) still not quite sure how to get into that. it seems the more advanced the tech, the messier the lab 2012-12-29 17:10 (tiny boards) thanks :) using anything specific ? 2012-12-29 17:13 nope using but i refer a lot to it to friends that get in to electronics using free software 2012-12-29 17:14 damnm there is a way to rever a git stash drop ? 2012-12-29 17:14 FrankBlues has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 17:16 kristianpaul: does it appear in the reflog? 2012-12-29 17:17 viric: hi 2012-12-29 17:17 viric: how i do see that? 2012-12-29 17:18 git log ? 2012-12-29 17:18 git reflog 2012-12-29 17:18 hello kristianpaul 2012-12-29 17:18 nope nothing 2012-12-29 17:19 kristianpaul: the bottom of 'man git-stash' includes a section about recovering drops 2012-12-29 17:22 ahh yeah 2012-12-29 17:24 humm 2012-12-29 17:38 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-29 18:11 zear has quit [Quit: bye] 2012-12-29 18:14 zear has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 18:29 megharsh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 18:30 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 18:32 megharsh has quit [Client Quit] 2012-12-29 18:40 megharsh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 18:44 hozer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 18:44 * hozer pings wolfspra1l 2012-12-29 18:45 is qi-hardware an actual company, or more the idea of community-driven open source hardware? 2012-12-29 18:46 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-29 18:47 I would like to hear some details on how you got fpgatools working on the lx9 part (and figure out how I can get it to work on an lx25 part) 2012-12-29 18:52 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 18:52 lx25 is BIG 2012-12-29 18:52 yes ;) 2012-12-29 18:53 well, I have some xc3s200's, but those are a different architecture 2012-12-29 18:53 I (in theory) have a bitstream of the Leon-sparc core compiled for an LX25 2012-12-29 18:54 my goal is to be able to compile some usefull CPU design to a bitstream using fpgatools 2012-12-29 18:55 hozer: if you want to help, perhaps you could get/make an lx9 board, familiarize yourself with the existing work, then try to explore the lx25. the structures should be very similar but it's reasonably certain that it'll take a lot of time to map them. 2012-12-29 18:55 and qi-hw is idea/community, no company 2012-12-29 18:57 qi :-) yeah 2012-12-29 18:57 hozer: thats quite big 2012-12-29 18:57 a leon-sparc wow 2012-12-29 18:57 even in verilog is BIG 2012-12-29 18:58 for me at least 2012-12-29 18:58 indeed wpwrak, hozer could try that lx9 and the blinking led 2012-12-29 18:58 where can I click 'order now' for an lx9 board with a LED to blink ;) 2012-12-29 18:59 hum well wait and ask wolfspra1l :-) 2012-12-29 19:00 hozer: are you good with floorplanning? 2012-12-29 19:00 wpwrak: I'm getting ideas in my head now to write some code to load random bitstreams and see what happens, and automate it 2012-12-29 19:00 kristianpaul: give me some code and I could figure it out. The problem I have with fpgas is the awful proprietary tools 2012-12-29 19:01 they are not that awful at all i think 2012-12-29 19:01 see xilinxs there are lots of docs 2012-12-29 19:02 there's also 19GB of crap polluting my disk just so I could compile for a single fpga 2012-12-29 19:02 and tools for lots of specific things like modifying a bitstream for example 2012-12-29 19:02 and I'm pretty sure the mapper/floorplanner/whatever are all single-threaded 2012-12-29 19:03 kristianpaul: some of my venom for Xilinx comes from using their tools in 1998, when they were windoze-only 2012-12-29 19:04 at which point I decided FPGAs will never take off until there is a full-open source toolchain like GCC to go from a high-level languate all the way to bitstream 2012-12-29 19:06 here's a chip layout question for you: Why does everything have to be a 90 degree angles 2012-12-29 19:06 What prevents someone from layout out an FPGA with hexagonal cells 2012-12-29 19:07 err, what prevents someone from designing an FPGA layout where the LUTs/elements/etc are in a hexagonal honeycomb packing? 2012-12-29 19:08 maybe because the old algorithms would break and nobody knows how to make new ones ;-) 2012-12-29 19:09 how old are those IC primitives? 2012-12-29 19:10 kristianpaul: you mean all the right angle stuff? 2012-12-29 19:11 dont know i'm very aware of IC 2012-12-29 19:11 and CAD related to it 2012-12-29 19:12 kristianpaul: apt-get install alliance 2012-12-29 19:12 hozer: (order now) xiangfu has the design for an lx9 board, which i think is the same wolfgang is using. not sure how DIY-friendly his current work is, though. he's been experimenting with BGAs ... 2012-12-29 19:13 you can try laying out some transistors 2012-12-29 19:13 i'm not* 2012-12-29 19:13 wpwrak: you dont like BGA dont you? :-) 2012-12-29 19:14 well is not so DIY friendly PCB making yes 2012-12-29 19:14 I would rather pay someone else to burn BGAs and send me a board and a blinky-led bitstream 2012-12-29 19:16 excuse me, are you talking about a DIY FPGA board that is based on lx9 and that can blink leds as a proof that it actually works? 2012-12-29 19:16 kristianpaul: i dislike the cost of industrial SMT. and i like a reasonable yield. so yes, no fan of BGAs :) 2012-12-29 19:17 kyak: that would be the idea 2012-12-29 19:17 sort of a starter kit 2012-12-29 19:18 of course, fpgatools for lx45 would be nice. we could use them on milkymist :) 2012-12-29 19:18 wpwrak: and it's different from starter kits by xlinix because it's going to be open source? 2012-12-29 19:18 that is, unless there are bugs that burn up the chip. we still don't know if that can happen in real life. 2012-12-29 19:18 larsc: how am I? 2012-12-29 19:19 kyak: existing starter kits may be an option, yes. depends on whether the comm protocols are suitable, whether their price point is okay, and so on. 2012-12-29 19:19 wpwrak: you use lx45 for milkymist? 2012-12-29 19:19 whitequark: you should start with questions like "where am i ?" and "what year is this ?" 2012-12-29 19:20 how many MGT's are there on the chip you use 2012-12-29 19:20 wpwrak: was replying to "20:44 < larsc> whitequark: you are famous :) 2012-12-29 19:20 hozer: M1 has an XC6SLX45-2FGG484C 2012-12-29 19:20 besides, asking about the year could soon be quite relevant. 2012-12-29 19:20 whitequark: yeah, if the party picks up speed early :) 2012-12-29 19:20 wpwrak: and what is it going to be at the end of the day? i mean, it's a starter kit for something? 2012-12-29 19:21 kyak: access to (previously) secret knowledge :) 2012-12-29 19:21 wpwrak: any chance I could talk you into doing a board revision that some multi gigabit transcievers brought out to an Infiniband CX4 connector? 2012-12-29 19:22 hozer: not really :) maybe you could talk sebastien into such things, though 2012-12-29 19:24 kyak: It's a starter-kit for FPGA development with fpgatools 2012-12-29 19:24 whitequark: may take a while until lars is back. he should now be in the process of getting drunk with the other ehsm folks 2012-12-29 19:24 wpwrak: yeah, quite sad actually I didn't make it to ESHM 2012-12-29 19:25 first I was busy getting my intl' passport back, then some stupid bureaucraticc crap tried required me to stay here 2012-12-29 19:25 hozer: i see 2012-12-29 19:25 and actually I didn't need that 2012-12-29 19:25 regarding blowing up chips with bitstreams: I'm quite sure you can configure an LX45 with gigabit serdes to make fire 2012-12-29 19:26 *EHSM 2012-12-29 19:26 is fpgatools a reverse-engineering attempt or it is documented and it is some kind of redesign of xilinx proprietary toolchain? 2012-12-29 19:26 whitequark: your blogpost about the rpi was mentioned in one of the talks 2012-12-29 19:27 https://github.com/Wolfgang-Spraul/fpgatools 2012-12-29 19:27 kyak: from-scratch fpga toolchain 2012-12-29 19:27 yeah, i'm looking at it. But still not clear 2012-12-29 19:28 it looks like cleanroom reverse-engineering 2012-12-29 19:28 kyak: it's reverse-engineering of the bitstream semantics, and then some minimalist toolchain that goes on top 2012-12-29 19:28 kyak: alas, not much documentation 2012-12-29 19:29 wpwrak: i see.. probably stupid question, but is it legal? 2012-12-29 19:29 kyak: i don't see why it wouldn't be 2012-12-29 19:29 that probably depends on if you've accepted the Xilinx tool bs end-user agreement 2012-12-29 19:30 if you have never used (or at least removed all copies of) the tools of the beast, the beast has no power over you :P 2012-12-29 19:30 this means that all I can do is throw money at the problem and contract someone else to do the reverse engineering :P 2012-12-29 19:31 ok.. from the other hand side, why is xilinx's toolchain closed? They sell hardware, not the software. Or is it "just because"? 2012-12-29 19:31 kyak: they sell the software 2012-12-29 19:31 the tools are key 2012-12-29 19:31 oh, they do.. ok 2012-12-29 19:31 the tools hide the hardware bugs 2012-12-29 19:32 heh, that's nice :) 2012-12-29 19:32 kyak: there is a free version of the tools, but it has a limited set of features 2012-12-29 19:32 so it means everyone who plans to base their design on xilinx FPGAs, must also buy their software.. very smart 2012-12-29 19:32 can the webpack (free version) compile the milkymist SOC? 2012-12-29 19:32 yes 2012-12-29 19:33 even then, I think the software is still a loss-leader for the hardware 2012-12-29 19:33 larsc: is it the same with altera? 2012-12-29 19:33 the only business reason that makes sense to me is get designed sucked into 'your' tools so they always choose your fpga 2012-12-29 19:33 designers get sucked into , I mean 2012-12-29 19:34 it's pretty strange to me anyway, because in MCU world it seems a little bit different.. For example, TI officially supports gcc and Makefiles for some of their DSPs 2012-12-29 19:35 kyak: in the fgpa world, there's a big conspiracy to keep things secret 2012-12-29 19:36 kyak: actually, no everyone is in the cabal. e.g., the cypress psoc 3/5 also have some clpd-like blocks in there, and that one is open. 2012-12-29 19:36 s/no/not/ 2012-12-29 19:36 wpwrak meant: "kyak: actually, not everyone is in the cabal. e.g., the cypress psoc 3/5 also have some clpd-like blocks in there, and that one is open." 2012-12-29 19:36 wpwrak: so this is the secret knowledge you refered to :) 2012-12-29 19:36 aye :) 2012-12-29 19:37 now, the next step would be for them to encrypt the bitstream 2012-12-29 19:38 that would attract all the crypto hackers, who'd see this as a highly welcome challenge 2012-12-29 19:38 isn't it that Xilinx's bitstream is currently fully documented in the datasheet? 2012-12-29 19:38 and so on. we'll see how far that arms race will go. of course, the sillier the lock-in protection gets, the more attractive it will be to leave the cabal 2012-12-29 19:39 http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/08/breaking_the_xi.html 2012-12-29 19:39 wpwrak: it sounds like you are almost waiting for that :) 2012-12-29 19:39 whitequark: at some level, yes (at least i think so) 2012-12-29 19:39 hozer: bitstream encryption is not the same as lock-in 2012-12-29 19:39 true 2012-12-29 19:39 you do encryption to avoid reverse-engineering by your competitors, no? 2012-12-29 19:40 wpwrak: cypress... hrrm.. they have a fab a 15 minute train ride away from me.... 2012-12-29 19:40 it's not like xilinx encrypts something trying to prevent you from developing your own translator 2012-12-29 19:42 kyak: seeing someone repeat other's mistakes reaffirms my faith in humanity :) but yes, xilinx could do the smart thing and just accept the new situation, or even embrace it. depends a bit on how open-minded they are. 2012-12-29 19:43 um, is there an open-source DFSG-compliant tool that I can program the Cypress PSOC's with?? 2012-12-29 19:43 wpwrak: they and altera own the market, so they probably don't care, since everybode is already in cabal 2012-12-29 19:44 hozer: the psoc 5 have some arm core 2012-12-29 19:44 hozer: the psoc 3 are 8051, so sdcc is your friend 2012-12-29 19:45 um 2012-12-29 19:45 sdcc is nice, I'm more interested in the stuff to program the analog gadgets 2012-12-29 19:45 no major witchcraft required :) 2012-12-29 19:45 well, there are registers your code can set ... :) 2012-12-29 19:46 last time i checked, the documentation was very detailed, if a bit overwhelming 2012-12-29 19:47 frankly, I'd rather layout my own analog chip than screw around writing the code needed to set the registers the right way 2012-12-29 19:47 their application notes are probably all based on their IDE, so they're of limited use. they may still explain the underlying principles, though. 2012-12-29 19:47 so unless Cypress is going to make http://www.cypress.com/?rID=41083 open source, they just lost my business 2012-12-29 19:47 although I still might approach the fab and see if they'll make my chip isntead 2012-12-29 19:48 right. i also prefer setting up my own cattle farm instead of going to the restaurant around the corner and order a steak :) 2012-12-29 19:48 http://7el.us/ 2012-12-29 19:48 just ignore that psoc designer 2012-12-29 19:48 I can send you some soymilk if you want 2012-12-29 19:49 wpwrak: I'd rather have someone else raise the cattle, but I'll buy from a small local producer and not McDonalds 2012-12-29 19:49 bah. i'm right in the middle of the planet's GMO soy empire ;-) 2012-12-29 19:49 iowa? 2012-12-29 19:49 well, logistically the middle 2012-12-29 19:49 or brazil 2012-12-29 19:49 buenos aires, argentina 2012-12-29 19:49 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-29 19:50 how is the crop going, anyway... 2012-12-29 19:50 so... total subject change... is anyone talking about open-source drones for precision farming applications down there? 2012-12-29 19:51 it's hilarious that you bring up the farming analogy... One of my long-term goals is to be able to fabricate silicon on my farm 2012-12-29 19:51 it got a little wet this spring. we'll see what that does. last season was very good. and the country needed that, because they completely screwed up the fuel industry. so basically all the record earnings from soy exports went right into fuel imports. 2012-12-29 19:52 because right now I can fix up 20 year old farm equipment for 5% of the cost of a new John Deere and it does 95% of what the new thing does 2012-12-29 19:52 and in 20 years I'll need to replace random CAN controllers that nobody makes anymore 2012-12-29 19:53 reminds me of how wpwrak replied when I posted a link to an electronic caliper 2012-12-29 19:54 hozer: (drones) hellekin may have heard of such things 2012-12-29 19:58 hozer: I never heard of such an application yet, but I guess it's a good question for open source ecology. 2012-12-29 19:58 that application would change from https://twitter.com/dronestream 2012-12-29 20:01 brimstone has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 20:02 nice. reverse-feeding dc-dc converter draws only some 50 uA. so no problem with setting the board up for programming (via the ben, of course) 2012-12-29 20:05 hozer: I asked on #hackerspaces (where brimstone came from) and [thor] there knows about someone using GIS to monitor their farm. Looks like you could go there and have a chat :) 2012-12-29 20:07 FrankBlues has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-12-29 20:24 hmm. seems that this year isn't destined to end well :-( 2012-12-29 20:25 wpwrak: why? 2012-12-29 20:25 first my dc-dc converter developed a short under a heavy load 2012-12-29 20:25 then, when trying to remove the regulator chip, the air pump of my soldering station stopped working 2012-12-29 20:26 let's see if it just need some cooling down. though it never did that before ... 2012-12-29 20:28 (heavy load) well, still only about 1/5 of the rated maximum output of 1.6 A. but with 15 V input (the chip is good for up to 17 V) 2012-12-29 20:28 the 10 Ohm load resistor heated up nicely, though. so it was good while it worked. 2012-12-29 20:38 and of course, a saturday at 17:30 before three "sundays" is about the perfect time for an equipment failure. @#$%^ 2012-12-29 20:48 maybe it's Fate itself telling you to do something else during these three days 2012-12-29 20:48 what are you working on 2012-12-29 20:49 kyak: oh, the 1st is already booked for something quite different. hangover removal :) 2012-12-29 20:50 hozer: the controller for a LED-based text (or whatever) display device. 2012-12-29 20:50 what display are you using 2012-12-29 20:51 basically it'll be the big brother of this one: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ant/edd1.jpg 2012-12-29 20:51 just a line of LEDs 2012-12-29 20:52 http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ant/proto2.jpg 2012-12-29 20:52 ooooh fun 2012-12-29 20:52 I want to put one of those on a wind turbine 2012-12-29 20:52 this device has 16 pixels, 2 LEDs for each. so 32 LEDs 2012-12-29 20:52 rgb? 2012-12-29 20:52 the new one has 64 LEDs, individually switchable 2012-12-29 20:52 viric has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-12-29 20:52 naw, just red. 2012-12-29 20:53 this is an earlier version of the 64 LED variant: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tornado/proto1122.jpg 2012-12-29 20:54 function test: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tornado/proto1122.ogv 2012-12-29 20:55 LOL... So practical :) < wpwrak> kyak: oh, the 1st is already booked for something quite different. hangover removal :) 2012-12-29 20:55 that controller used an atmega168 which is a bit underpowered for the task. and it didn't have a voltage regulator, so the uSD card would freak out with all the voltage jumps 2012-12-29 20:56 wpwrak: my girlfriend likes it :) 2012-12-29 20:56 not the hangover, but the prototype :) 2012-12-29 20:56 hehe ;-) 2012-12-29 20:57 the old one (32 LEDs) is for shaking the stick. the new one is for spinning it at the end of a string. less work, better picture :) 2012-12-29 21:01 i also de-fancies the design a little. the "antorcha" ("torch") has a ben-wpan built in, so images and firmware can be updated over the air. drawback: it needs a ben+atben to do anything useful. 2012-12-29 21:01 s/de-fancies/de-fancied/ 2012-12-29 21:01 wpwrak meant: "i also de-fancied the design a little. the "antorcha" ("torch") has a ben-wpan built in, so images and firmware can be updated over the air. drawback: it needs a ben+atben to do anything useful." 2012-12-29 21:01 what is a ben-wpan 2012-12-29 21:02 qwebirc32787 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 21:02 the new one has just a uSD slot. so it can carry a lot of images without needing an external device. plus, it's easier to find something that can talk uSD than anything that can talk IEEE 802.15.4 2012-12-29 21:03 heheh, why not wifi? ;) 2012-12-29 21:03 hozer: an IEEE 802.15.4 board for the ben nanonote: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/web/ 2012-12-29 21:03 hozer: got any small wifi solution that doesn't suck NDA-wise ? :) 2012-12-29 21:04 um, probably the one we use an GNUradio on an fpga for? ;) 2012-12-29 21:04 well, or suck in all other regards, like that microchip critter that only does 802.11 (no a, b, g, ...) 2012-12-29 21:04 qwebirc32787 has quit [Client Quit] 2012-12-29 21:05 hozer: that uSD slot costs me cents :) 2012-12-29 21:06 wpwrak: wait. is there even such a thing as "just" 802.11? 2012-12-29 21:06 whitequark: oh yes :) 2012-12-29 21:06 I always thought it was just a name for a family of standards 2012-12-29 21:06 >IEEE 802.11 is a set of standards for implementing wireless local area network (WLAN) computer communication in the 2.4, 3.6 and 5 GHz frequency bands. 2012-12-29 21:07 wait 3.6?! 2012-12-29 21:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11-1997_.28802.11_legacy.29 2012-12-29 21:07 since when 2012-12-29 21:07 hrrrm... 3.6... sounds like a good backhaul channel for open-mesh 2012-12-29 21:09 " IEEE 802.11y-2008 extended operation of 802.11a to the licensed 3.7 GHz band. Increased power limits allow a range up to 5,000 m. As of 2009, it is only being licensed in the United States by the FCC." 2012-12-29 21:11 ah, seems that microchip recently made some new modules with more modern characteristics 2012-12-29 21:15 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 21:15 wpwrak: why would you want to use anything by a company which produces PIC and ENC28J60? 2012-12-29 21:16 whitequark: in this case: finding sufficiently open small wlan is difficult 2012-12-29 21:17 what about atheros? 2012-12-29 21:18 last time i checked they didn't have anything suitable. all their embedded-friendly stuff was quite closed. 2012-12-29 21:18 it's not only a question of linux drivers but also one of access to chip/modules, design information, and so on 2012-12-29 21:20 e.g., there is a linux driver for the ar6k (the one in the openmoko gta02) but you can't get the chips or hw design information. modules are difficult to source and you don't get firmware updates. 2012-12-29 21:21 for at least one chip they published firmware sources 2012-12-29 21:21 but updates are a different thing, yeah. 2012-12-29 21:22 compilable and installable firmware sources would solve the update problem :) 2012-12-29 21:22 http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/ar9170.fw 2012-12-29 21:23 it is even for a 11n chipset 2012-12-29 21:23 things get more relaxed when you move to larger chips, e.g., for laptops. but they're usually too big for small embedded systems. 2012-12-29 21:24 it depends. connectivity line STM32's have USB OTG. I agree this is far from ideal, through. 2012-12-29 21:25 you also need to go up to 5 V if doing USB. so you're forced to make a rather complex system before you can actually use that stuff. 2012-12-29 21:26 and then you're still limited to modules, which increases your sourcing risk. 2012-12-29 21:26 and of course, you need lots of space for all that 2012-12-29 21:28 if you want less space, maybe it isn't a good idea to use 802.11 after all? 2012-12-29 21:29 oh, 802.11 would be fine. it's just that you can't get the chips unless you're a big player. 2012-12-29 21:34 snipes has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 21:36 snipes has quit [Client Quit] 2012-12-29 21:44 snipes has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 21:45 x 2012-12-29 21:45 snipes has quit [Client Quit] 2012-12-29 22:00 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 22:00 damn it... does 3.7.1 have a different specification for mtd partitions in cmdline? 2012-12-29 22:00 a 3.7 vs 3.6 change I mean 2012-12-29 22:09 viric has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-12-29 22:09 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 22:22 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 22:23 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-29 22:25 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-12-29 22:28 rz2k has quit [] 2012-12-29 22:29 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 22:39 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 22:40 viric has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-12-29 22:56 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-29 23:03 kilae has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 2012-12-29 23:30 pcercuei has quit [Quit: Bye] 2012-12-29 23:54 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]