2012-12-21 00:05 rz2k has quit [] 2012-12-21 00:14 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-21 00:19 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 00:27 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-21 00:32 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 00:49 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-21 00:56 MistahDarcy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-12-21 01:21 MistahDarcy has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 01:41 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 2012-12-21 01:45 [commit] Werner Almesberger: experimental directive "allow holes" to allow multiple holes per pad (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/bb055fa 2012-12-21 01:46 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:fped (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/1bc94d0 2012-12-21 01:46 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/qfn.fpd: NXP "HVQFN33" footprint (without the vias) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/d9727bb 2012-12-21 01:46 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/HIERARCHY: add BGA-256 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/3ae4978 2012-12-21 01:46 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/: add QFN32-HVQFN (e.g., for NXP LPC1xxx parts) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/94f9024 2012-12-21 01:46 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/: "make brd" opens pcbnew for footprint examination (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/cce9081 2012-12-21 01:54 MistahDarcy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-12-21 01:58 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-12-21 02:29 hmm, not nice: http://www.qi-hardware.com/ 2012-12-21 02:30 -> "It works! This is the default web page for this server. The web server software is running but no content has been added, yet." 2012-12-21 02:34 erghh 2012-12-21 02:53 ah i dint noticed it because wiki was already there http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/ 2012-12-21 02:54 yes, if you come from a search engine, you end up at the right place 2012-12-21 02:55 or by qi-hw.com 2012-12-21 02:57 but not www.qi-hw.com ;-) 2012-12-21 02:58 erghh 2012-12-21 02:59 qi-hardware, meet the dark side of user friendliness ;-) 2012-12-21 02:59 actually the www subdomain seems to be the problem 2012-12-21 03:00 :-) 2012-12-21 03:04 yeah, without it also qi-hardware.com works 2012-12-21 03:17 who uses www those days! ;-) 2012-12-21 03:18 right, all the cool kids use gopher :) 2012-12-21 03:22 lol 2012-12-21 03:40 [commit] Werner Almesberger: genkicat: new option "-t title.ps" to include a title page file (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/560bf9d 2012-12-21 03:51 MistahDarcy has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 03:54 [commit] Werner Almesberger: add title pages to the catalogs, with useful information like the creation date (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e324adc 2012-12-21 03:56 ... and this is what it looks like: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/kicad-libs-components.pdf 2012-12-21 04:03 DocScrutinizer06 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:04 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2012-12-21 04:21 roh has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-21 04:21 larsc has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2012-12-21 04:21 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-12-21 04:23 uwe_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-12-21 04:23 jow_laptop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-12-21 04:23 larsc has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:23 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:24 zedstar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-12-21 04:25 zedstar has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:25 zedstar has quit [Changing host] 2012-12-21 04:25 zedstar has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:26 roh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:28 jow_laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:30 uwe_mobile has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:37 DocScrutinizer06 is now known as DocScrutinizer05 2012-12-21 04:38 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Changing host] 2012-12-21 04:38 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:43 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 04:45 wolfspraul has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-12-21 07:06 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 07:30 wolfspra1l has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-12-21 07:54 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 08:01 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 08:04 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 08:44 sivoais has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-12-21 08:46 sivoais has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 08:56 !seen roh 2012-12-21 08:56 DocScrutinizer05, if you can't see roh here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^ 2012-12-21 08:56 thanks, how helpful 2012-12-21 08:57 roh: ping 2012-12-21 08:57 roh: do you think gismo could eventually reboot that vserver? 2012-12-21 08:58 or answer my mails? 2012-12-21 08:58 or both? 2012-12-21 09:00 ooh, backscroll suggests at least you are not dead yet 2012-12-21 09:03 wpwrak: do you think this makes for a nice xmess gift I could buy for myself? http://www.ebay.de/itm/LASER-11-WATT-Copper-Vapor-Laser-Kupferdampflaser-/140897424720 2012-12-21 09:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-R4Kq2l7xE setup starting at 3:15 is actually nice to lure in thunder flash 2012-12-21 09:13 I'd probably place a lightning catcher next to the upward beam though, so that maybe the mirror could survive strikes 2012-12-21 09:14 DocScrutinizer05: then. it's danger and looks like a big weapon. :-) 2012-12-21 09:14 see 5:40 2012-12-21 09:16 pulsed with peaks of 5kW 2012-12-21 09:17 says the german text 2012-12-21 09:18 I'm much in love with this monster 2012-12-21 09:23 xiangfu: big weapon for pickup truck mount, yes ;-D 2012-12-21 09:23 alas: 20min pre-heat 2012-12-21 09:25 great weapon for mosquito killing with stereo camera & low-power red laser wall positioning and then taking those parasites down with a single 5kW pulse 2012-12-21 09:26 meh, "taking down" - EVAPORIZING! 2012-12-21 09:29 also a plausible threat to keep *everybody* out my flat that I don't want to come in. "DANGER! LASER RADIATION! Wear eye protection. DO NOT TOUCH THE BEAM!" 2012-12-21 09:31 then place 3 pairs of 0.99$ cheap protective goggles on nails under that big scary sign, and be sure *nobody* will ever dare to use them and enter the room without prior allowance 2012-12-21 09:33 DocScrutinizer05: "Fasereinkoppelung vorhanden und ok." ... so that's what they use on star trek :) 2012-12-21 09:33 hehe 2012-12-21 09:34 I guess the whole device been originally used in medical skin treatment 2012-12-21 09:34 to remove tattoos etc 2012-12-21 09:35 the LCD display shown in that youtube video suggests that 2012-12-21 09:35 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-12-21 09:36 http://www.hhsurgical.com/Products/Product/Electrosurgical-Units/NoSub/2424-Aesculap-Meditec-Pro-Yellow--Laser-Bundled-w-2-handpieces-and-a-lot-of-accessories.chtml 2012-12-21 09:37 if you don't buy it, lekernel may want to beat you to it :) 2012-12-21 09:42 http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/showthread.php/11309-FS-CuBr-laser-add-some-445nm-for-a-MONSTER! 2012-12-21 09:47 hmm ... "The laser with it's previous owner" 2012-12-21 09:53 LOL, what do you imply? 2012-12-21 09:56 that the laser manufacturer won't have to make good on that "lifetime warranty" ? :) 2012-12-21 09:57 ok, found a mantra why I should NOT get this thing: it won't arrive in time to celebrate solstice and shoot the mayan apocalypse 2012-12-21 09:59 well, solstice is in just a few minutes :) 2012-12-21 09:59 but there's some debate on whether the mayan calendar wrapped already or will wrap today, tomorrow, or maybe on the 23rd 2012-12-21 10:00 are you in the debate? 2012-12-21 10:00 nuernberg-vienna is just a few hours of driving, so ... :) 2012-12-21 10:00 wpwrak: eeek, when? 2012-12-21 10:01 viric: naw, just read that there was actually a bit of uncertainty about the precise mapping from mayan to our calendar :) 2012-12-21 10:01 (solstice) 2012-12-21 10:02 I'm quite impressed anyone can read the mayan scripts 2012-12-21 10:02 wpwrak: (uncertainty on mapping) yeah, to the degree where some (austrian?) guys claim it's early a few 105 orso years 2012-12-21 10:03 so true apocalypse will happen no earlyer than 2124 or something 2012-12-21 10:04 GRRRR 4 hours 2012-12-21 10:04 or so the caption of the calendar image claims on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon 2012-12-21 10:04 I *could* make it to Vienna in 4h 2012-12-21 10:06 DocScrutinizer05: you only have about one hour, solstice is at 11:12 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/december-solstice.html 2012-12-21 10:07 you'll need a jet to make it :) 2012-12-21 10:07 fsck solstice when I could get that monster laser 2012-12-21 10:07 exactly. who cares about the mayans if you can make your own apocalypse ;-) 2012-12-21 10:07 NOIWONTNOIWONTNOIWO 2012-12-21 10:08 could somebody lease pull the plug of my internet? 2012-12-21 10:08 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-12-21 10:08 oops, that was xiangfu's plug 2012-12-21 10:09 yesterday I noticed I had no proper xmess gift for me yet. Pondered to get one of those 1W blue leser LEDs 2012-12-21 10:09 then I ran into this monster 2012-12-21 10:09 laser* 2012-12-21 10:09 DocScrutinizer05: seen that video by patent troll IV? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4tPrcePdGM 2012-12-21 10:09 a diode actually suffices, it seems 2012-12-21 10:10 i got a few chips for myself. nothing fancy, though. (accelerometers, regulators, a few pogo pins) 2012-12-21 10:11 lekernel: been pondering to search for the link, yes 2012-12-21 10:11 was thinking of that though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=YnSKrzmpKGw 2012-12-21 10:13 lekernel: oh, that looks very satisfying. it's mosquito season here and despite all the gassing, they still keep on coming ... 2012-12-21 10:13 patent trolling seems to work for them, though. http://intellectualventureslab.com/ 2012-12-21 10:14 beats the average hackerspace by a pretty wide margin 2012-12-21 10:18 this one has more context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnSKrzmpKGw 2012-12-21 10:18 this been about what I originally looked for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=PbWGjPByXKk 2012-12-21 10:22 a mere 2W though 2012-12-21 10:22 and there's the "easy DIY" variant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiShG2OxWVc 2012-12-21 10:23 my current 10mW blue laser can't do that, and the 200mW green neither 2012-12-21 10:24 which kinda proves that 200mW != 200mW when it comes to effects 2012-12-21 10:27 for technical purposes blue lasers are obviously more effective. For the OHCHEEZ you can't beat green laser 2012-12-21 10:27 since it's just the wavelength where human eye is most sensible 2012-12-21 10:28 so green always will look way brighter than blue 2012-12-21 10:28 though blue light of same power has more 'technical' impact than green 2012-12-21 10:31 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 10:35 comparing the two http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66aVXk5jSn8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5HjdmVcoDw , I probably will go for the green one. No doubt 2012-12-21 10:35 esp since blue is *really* dangerous, by building up radicals in your retina 2012-12-21 10:36 basically what's the fun in watching a blue laser, when you need protective goggles that dim down the light by a factor 100 2012-12-21 10:38 DocScrutinizer05: that's why, anticipating geekdom, evolution designed us with a backup eye :) 2012-12-21 10:42 hmm 2012-12-21 10:46 wpwrak: backup eye will help nuttin when staring at the blue laser spot at the wall with both eyes same time 2012-12-21 10:48 DocScrutinizer05: how reflective are your walls ? :) 2012-12-21 10:48 wpwrak: it's not the "don't stare into laser beam with the remaining eye" effect. It's the mere light that kills your retina 2012-12-21 10:49 seems the monochromatic coherent light has special properties to create radicals 2012-12-21 10:49 which in turn kills your receptors 2012-12-21 10:49 no laser like bundling needed 2012-12-21 10:50 aiui 2012-12-21 10:50 hmm, direct beam hit vs. diffused reflection. i think you'd have to be very close to the wall or have a heck of a laser to get any damage. 2012-12-21 10:50 that's why I said blue lasers are no fun for sane people 2012-12-21 10:55 http://www.wickedlasers.com/laser-tech/blue_light_hazard.html 2012-12-21 10:55 we work with lasers... 2012-12-21 10:55 ah? 2012-12-21 10:55 usually, 10mW max, and we are very careful on what we do with them 2012-12-21 10:56 ok 2012-12-21 10:56 we focus them either with protective glasses, or seen through a camera/screen 2012-12-21 10:57 we know people which work with the same lasers with less care, that have gone through doctors for problems in the eyes 2012-12-21 10:57 I'd be very very careful with a 200mW laser. 2012-12-21 10:59 >>The power of this laser is no joke, at 1W the Spyder III Pro Arctic is a Class 4 Laser. Do not allow unprotected eye exposure to diffusely scattered light from the beam terminating on a wall, the floor or other flat surface from this laser closer than 3 feet.<< 2012-12-21 11:01 Mistah_Darcy has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 11:01 plain speech: a blue laser of 2W is highly dangerous not only when staring into the beam but also when watching the projection spot on the wall 2012-12-21 11:03 I'm just looking at the spot of my 5mW blue on the wall, ~5ft away 2012-12-21 11:03 maybe 4 2012-12-21 11:04 already creates scary optical artifacts in the eye 2012-12-21 11:04 MistahDarcy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2012-12-21 11:04 the spot looks much larger than it actually is 2012-12-21 11:05 I don't think I like blue lasers that much 2012-12-21 11:05 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 11:06 the green allegedly 150mW is a killer in comparison, but feels less nasty nevertheless 2012-12-21 11:07 I'd not dare to look at the spot if this was a blue one 2012-12-21 11:07 look to them through a camera. :) 2012-12-21 11:08 when was solstice? 2012-12-21 11:08 in about 4 minutes 2012-12-21 11:08 ahh backscroll, thanks 2012-12-21 11:09 so in 120s 2012-12-21 11:09 err 170 2012-12-21 11:10 http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/december-solstice.html >> connect to upstream server timedout Host: www.timeanddate.com Url: /calendar/december-solstice.html<<< bwahahaha 2012-12-21 11:22 I just secret santa'd my friend and bought him 5 games on his Steam wishlist 2012-12-21 11:22 hilariously... one of his friends got jealous I did that and bought him 5 more. LOL 2012-12-21 11:33 Mistah_Darcy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-12-21 11:34 Mistah_Darcy has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 11:39 Mistah_Darcy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-12-21 11:59 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 12:02 unclouded has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-21 12:07 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2012-12-21 12:07 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 12:22 ah lovelly http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Reballing-tools-with-chip.JPG :-) 2012-12-21 12:23 and gets better http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Reballing-tools-with-chip-side.JPG 2012-12-21 12:23 wolfspraul: no definetelly moving away from qfp? 2012-12-21 12:30 no/so 2012-12-21 12:35 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 12:45 interesting tool. nice and simple :) 2012-12-21 12:48 ack. 2012-12-21 12:48 yeap 2012-12-21 12:50 kristianpaul: i found this recently http://www.reballing.be/index.html 2012-12-21 12:56 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-12-21 12:57 xiangfu: blinking with a counter ! 2012-12-21 12:58 nice ;) 2012-12-21 12:58 kristianpaul: Hi 2012-12-21 12:58 hola :) 2012-12-21 12:59 that is for test clock is works fine. 2012-12-21 12:59 nice 2012-12-21 13:05 kristianpaul: reballing: I tried on reballing. 2012-12-21 13:05 kristianpaul: so far I think there are one problem is the soldering paste HAVE TO be good. 2012-12-21 13:06 kristianpaul: so there is no good reballing chip so far 2012-12-21 13:07 I already bought 2 branch soldering paste, one from Hongkong. another from Taiwan. 2012-12-21 13:08 no time try reballing again recently. I will update the wiki once I try reballing again. now I have quiet some chips for reballing. 2012-12-21 13:08 the best should be metal mask excatly same size as chip. 2012-12-21 13:19 how do you align the chip for the balls not to be unaligned when in the oven? 2012-12-21 13:19 i saw a video and the chip begun to "fall" in one side then the other 2012-12-21 13:22 align before put then to oven. 2012-12-21 13:22 when there are tin on your pcb bga footprint(all the factory pcb have tin but home-made-pcb) 2012-12-21 13:23 things get eaier. even your chip a little bit shift. when reflowing the chip will automatic fit to footprint. 2012-12-21 13:23 home-made-pcb have a lot of trouble. 2012-12-21 13:23 ah shift is fixed with more reflow good to know 2012-12-21 13:23 trouble, can imagine :-) 2012-12-21 13:24 1. the oxide layer on home-made-pcb 2012-12-21 13:25 2. align the chip. there is no outline of chip. but you can do some trick when pcb etching. add some cutout zone fit the chip outline. 2012-12-21 13:26 s/there is no outline of chip/there is no slik layer on home-made-pcb 2012-12-21 13:26 xiangfu meant: "2. align the chip. there is no slik layer on home-made-pcb. but you can do some trick when pcb etching. add some cutout zone fit the chip outline." 2012-12-21 13:27 (shift is fixed) very tiny shift. not like shift one big bga ball. :) 2012-12-21 13:29 had you tried kapton tape? 2012-12-21 13:30 just asking not sure if hold the chip with a tape will actyally help.. 2012-12-21 13:32 xiangfu: you can tin your DIY PCBs, too 2012-12-21 13:32 wpwrak: yes. I tried that. but I didn't get a good result. 2012-12-21 13:33 wpwrak: I use the SMT solder. then hot air gun. 2012-12-21 13:33 xiangfu: just heat up your iron to the maximum, apply flux to the PCB, then distribute a few drops of tin and spread them out 2012-12-21 13:33 xiangfu: naw, just regular solder and the iron. no hot air or solder paste needed. 2012-12-21 13:34 wpwrak: thanks for that. I will try that in next 2 days. 2012-12-21 13:34 you can still get relatively thick (maybe 0.1 mm) solder deposits on isolated pads but it's usually very thin. 2012-12-21 13:35 wpwrak: after tin my pcb. the align get more difficult. I guess my hand-tin not that smooth. :) 2012-12-21 13:35 if you get too much solder on, say, an IC pad, you can "paint" it on an adjacent trace (if there's one) 2012-12-21 13:36 with isolated pads, it's messier. you can use desoldering wick to remove excess tin, but you have to be very careful not to damage the pads. 2012-12-21 13:36 ("paint" it on an adjacent trace) most of them don't have trace. :( 2012-12-21 13:36 of course, if you damage an isolated pad, it often doesn't matter ;-) 2012-12-21 13:36 yes, BGA is a bit more demanding :) 2012-12-21 13:37 factory-made pcbs also have a solder mask, which should help with BGAs. 2012-12-21 13:37 (damage the pads) yes. when I put the iron to the isolate pad > ~3~5 secs. the pad will just get off from pcb. 2012-12-21 13:37 (solder mask) yes. 2012-12-21 13:38 but in general, i think they're a bit too much trouble for manual soldering. particularly since you can't reach (examine or fix) the balls in the middle. 2012-12-21 13:38 xray :-) 2012-12-21 13:38 ;-) 2012-12-21 13:39 (damaged pads) exactly :) in some cases it helps if you decrease the temperature. in other cases, it helps to increase it :) 2012-12-21 13:39 decrease: if your iron is way too hot. 2012-12-21 13:40 increase: if the iron is near the melting point of the tin. then it takes a lot of time for the tin to melt and the overall amount of thermal energy is actually larger than what you'd need with a hotter iron. 2012-12-21 13:40 wpwrak: for bga: 1. soldering paste(flux). 2. align bga chip 3. oven 4. I have some probe-pad for test inner connection 5. luck. :) 2012-12-21 13:41 the temperature also depends on how much heat is conducted away, e.g., to connectors, ground areas, or other large structures 2012-12-21 13:41 wpwrak: are you using 'syringe' when your pase other pads? like 0402/0603/0805 etc. 2012-12-21 13:42 so if you have a particularly nasty spot with a lot of ground fill nearby, it sometimes helps to heat up the iron a little 2012-12-21 13:42 wpwrak: yes. 2012-12-21 13:42 i normally solder things manually, without paste 2012-12-21 13:42 if i have to use paste, then yes, i have a syringe (the paste already comes on one) 2012-12-21 13:43 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2012-12-21 13:43 wpwrak: ok. I cannot even buy such thing(syringe + tin inside) in Beijing. at least I cannot find them on taobao or other web-shop. 2012-12-21 13:44 (have to use paste) for things like center pads in QFN (if i even bother to connect them) or for SMT crystals. crystals are a problem for "traditional" soldering because the tin, applied from the side, is likely to stick to the metal case, so you end up shorting things. 2012-12-21 13:44 good thing is I don't have much components. no qfp(0.5mm pitch) 2012-12-21 13:45 "no qfp" ? i thought what you had is 0.5 mm qfp ? 2012-12-21 13:46 (crystals) once I put too much paste. it also get short. 2012-12-21 13:46 only bga (xc6slx9 ftg256) now. 2012-12-21 13:48 so far I never try qfp + home-made-pcb. since I think the 0.5mm even harder compare to bga 0.8pitch. 2012-12-21 13:49 my printer(600 DPI) give the qfp pins footprint very very close. 2012-12-21 13:50 I think when I do soldering: qfp-short problems > bga-short problems 2012-12-21 13:51 qfp sound be much easier to fix. i don't think i've had 0.5 mm yet, but 0.65 mm SSOP is very easy 2012-12-21 13:52 if you have a short, just apply flux and pass over the pins with the iron again. either "paint" the tin to adjacent traces or just have it stick to the iron. 2012-12-21 13:52 ah, and i solder them with the iron and regular tin, too. no solder paste or reflow oven. 2012-12-21 13:53 how many pins? 2012-12-21 13:53 for reflow, i think you need to make a stencil. otherwise, you'll have problems with the amount of solder paste. 2012-12-21 13:53 (pins) small ones, up to 28 pins (ssop). but the number of pins doesn't really matter. 2012-12-21 13:53 (stencil) yes. agree. 2012-12-21 13:54 and QFP is just the same as SSOP. 2012-12-21 13:56 yes. for hand-soldering. better is the QFP. 2012-12-21 13:57 wpwrak: I will take a picture of my qfp144 etching pcb tomorrow. those pins are really close here. 2012-12-21 13:57 btw. I think we have some problem on our bga.fpg. 2012-12-21 13:57 ah, the dual FET in the ledtoy has a 0.5 mm pitch. the package is a bit of a hybrid between SSOP-like pins and QFN (i.e., very short pins) 2012-12-21 13:58 and soldering that was no trouble at all 2012-12-21 13:58 (bga.fpd problem) yes ? 2012-12-21 13:58 ((tinning homemade PCB)) do galvanic! 2012-12-21 13:58 the pad size is 0.6mm. we edit the pad size base on the ball size. 2012-12-21 13:58 but the pad size should be < 0.6mm. 2012-12-21 13:59 DocScrutinizer05: how ? :) 2012-12-21 13:59 there are galvanic baths commercially available to tin cover PCB 2012-12-21 13:59 if I don't remember wrong there is a documennt on cx6slx9 chip bga footprint. 2012-12-21 13:59 the document have the correct pad size. 2012-12-21 13:59 DocScrutinizer05: and how do you connect all the traces ? 2012-12-21 14:00 you don't do electrogalvanic 2012-12-21 14:00 DocScrutinizer05: ah, i see 2012-12-21 14:00 DocScrutinizer05: i think the chemical tinning approach is somewhat nasty. unpleasant and difficult to find witchbrews. 2012-12-21 14:01 results are maybe sub-optimal, but worth testing 2012-12-21 14:01 maybe silver coating even does better than tin 2012-12-21 14:01 wpwrak: and the chip outline also wrong I think. 2012-12-21 14:03 LunaVorax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-12-21 14:05 xiangfu: lemme check the references ... 2012-12-21 14:06 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 14:07 hmm, no footprints in the altera and xilinx references 2012-12-21 14:07 let's see what NXP have to offer 2012-12-21 14:09 hmm, all paths lead to the universal guide of wisdom, http://www.nxp.com/documents/application_note/AN10365.pdf 2012-12-21 14:11 page 22 is about mixing solder paste and solder balls 2012-12-21 14:14 here is one that has package and footprint 2012-12-21 14:14 http://www.nxp.com/packages/SOT1063-1.html 2012-12-21 14:15 balls are 0.25 +/- 0.05 mm 2012-12-21 14:16 hmm, 0.25 solder land but 0.275 mm solder paste. solder mask is 0.35 mm. 2012-12-21 14:17 so they recommend copper-defined pads and copper diameter == ball diameter 2012-12-21 14:18 :nod: 2012-12-21 14:18 seem to recall similar setups 2012-12-21 14:18 iirc TI also has some nice guides 2012-12-21 14:18 same here: http://www.nxp.com/packages/SOT1071-1.html 2012-12-21 14:18 wpwrak: http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/package_specs/ft256.pdf <-- there are MIN/NOM/MAX on ball diameter. 2012-12-21 14:19 xiangfu: using NXP's rules, the pad size should correspond to the nominal diameter 2012-12-21 14:20 basically what those Siemens guys told us at OM was: the footprint libs are one of the core assets of a company usually. Each company has its own, and usually you don't want to use those that come from chip manufs. But ours are great and usable of course 2012-12-21 14:21 iirc 2012-12-21 14:21 wpwrak: I think we better use NOM 2012-12-21 14:22 (the pad size should correspond to the nominal diameter) yes. agree. I will update the bga.fpd. 2012-12-21 14:24 hm. wasnt the size of the hole in the solder mask the defining variable to how much solder paste gets onto a pad? 2012-12-21 14:24 so.. padsize != soldermask-hole-size 2012-12-21 14:25 yeah, that's solderpaste oversizing 2012-12-21 14:25 or undersizing 2012-12-21 14:25 seems wpwrak mentioned oversizing above 2012-12-21 14:25 i only know under, but yes 2012-12-21 14:25 ;) 2012-12-21 14:26 DocScrutinizer05: (ours is great but all others suck) what a refreshingly original concept ;-) 2012-12-21 14:26 DocScrutinizer05: (Each company has its own) I belive that. 2012-12-21 14:26 also it seems that these 'sizes' are all just recommendations.. not 'things that should work' ... from what ive heard one tunes these more often than what manufs try to admit 2012-12-21 14:26 btw... if one does make telco equipment, one can use lead based solder :) .. no crappy solder problems 2012-12-21 14:28 erikkugel1 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 14:28 wpwrak: what about the outline? should we make it a little bigger? 2012-12-21 14:32 let's see what NXP say ... package is 4.5 +/- 0.1 mm 2012-12-21 14:32 wpwrak: I used the wrong value on ftg256 and csg324. the 484 is right. 2012-12-21 14:34 "occupied area" is 4.9 mm (squared, of course). so if outline == occupied area, yes, it should be a little larger. if outline == ideal location of package edges, the nominal or the max value would probably be best. 2012-12-21 14:34 [commit] Xiangfu: bga: use the nominal size (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/b3fcc76 2012-12-21 14:35 wpwrak: ok. got it. have to sleep. 2012-12-21 14:36 xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-12-21 14:45 rz2k has quit [] 2012-12-21 15:19 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 15:44 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 15:56 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 16:05 LunaVorax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-12-21 16:06 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 16:41 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 18:20 kilae has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 2012-12-21 18:22 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-21 19:51 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 19:53 nerd has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-12-21 19:54 unclouded has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 20:09 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 20:36 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-12-21 20:45 [commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv/dsv (setup): remove trailing whitespace from lines from bookshelf file (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/24160dd 2012-12-21 20:45 [commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv/dsv: record source URL in dsv-* file; new option -u to show it (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/676c6a2 2012-12-21 20:58 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 21:00 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 21:49 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-12-21 22:16 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 22:35 DocScrutinizer51 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-12-21 22:36 could you share the 11W laser link of this morning please? 2012-12-21 22:37 wpwrak: ping 2012-12-21 22:37 sorry, mobile 2012-12-21 23:08 rz2k has quit [] 2012-12-21 23:17 DocScrutinizer05: you mean the one in vienna. looking for directions ? :) http://www.ebay.de/itm/LASER-11-WATT-Copper-Vapor-Laser-Kupferdampflaser-/140897424720 2012-12-21 23:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/: TI TPS6216x series 3V-17V 1A Step-Down Converters (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/a841da7 2012-12-21 23:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/dfn.fpd: DFN-8 (aka TI's WSON-8) package, for TPS6216x (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/694cebf 2012-12-21 23:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: title page: always generate title.ps when generating the catalog (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/21513c1 2012-12-21 23:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: include common/Makefile after "all", so that it won't override the default (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/2e07473 2012-12-21 23:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:kicad-libs (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/72b0c31 2012-12-21 23:35 wolfspraul: a new error when pushing: ssh: Could not resolve hostname fidelio.qi-hardware.com: No address associated with hostname 2012-12-21 23:35 followed by error: hooks/post-receive exited with error code 255 2012-12-21 23:36 doesn't seem to cause any harm, though (as far as i can tell) 2012-12-21 23:37 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-12-21 23:37 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware