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2012-12-20 00:47 <kristianpaul> viric: ah xterm beuty are colours ;-)
2012-12-20 00:47 <kristianpaul> may be thats why i never got used to it
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2012-12-20 01:39 <wpwrak> viric: (color xterm) yeah, that's evil. particularly when someone uses yellow for problem reports. my xterms are black on beige ("moccasin") so anything yellow is almost invisible
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2012-12-20 07:02 <wolfspraul> I finished work on the blinking_led (in fpgatools), awaiting confirmation from xiangfu...
2012-12-20 07:02 <wolfspraul> next step is a counter which can be programmed over jtag
2012-12-20 07:03 <wolfspraul> goal: 2 weeks :-)
2012-12-20 07:03 <wolfspraul> also I need to work on support for the ftg256 package (as opposed to the only supported tqg144 right now)
2012-12-20 07:03 <wolfspraul> after the counter: j1 soc to blink led...
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2012-12-20 07:15 <wpwrak> so currently have a blinking led, but no counter ?
2012-12-20 07:24 <wolfspraul> awaiting confirmation, but yes, it's a blinking led driven from a static counter
2012-12-20 07:24 <wolfspraul> counts up, clocked from an external clock, and the highest bit of the counter is the on/off wire
2012-12-20 07:25 <wolfspraul> whereas the next counter will have start/stop/frequency registers that can be programmed over jtag
2012-12-20 07:25 <wolfspraul> in lines of verilog, the and gate was 1 line, the static counter 3 or 4, and the new one now maybe 100
2012-12-20 07:25 <wolfspraul> with jtag and registers etc.
2012-12-20 07:26 <wolfspraul> will be interesting to see how fpgatools holds up
2012-12-20 07:26 <wolfspraul> this is the final blinking_led.c btw https://github.com/Wolfgang-Spraul/fpgatools/blob/master/blinking_led.c
2012-12-20 07:27 <wolfspraul> maybe I do need some smarter high-level functions for the new jtag counter, or else the .c would grow to thousands of lines dealing with each wire (bit) separately...
2012-12-20 07:30 <wpwrak> (awaiting confirmation) you mean you don't have a board but just test it on paper, knuth-style ? :-)
2012-12-20 07:31 <wpwrak> the next counter sounds pretty fancy :)
2012-12-20 07:34 <Fallenou> wow indeed the c file seems pretty big for what it actually does, the entire M1 soc would take a lot of lines :p
2012-12-20 07:34 <Fallenou> congratz anyway !!
2012-12-20 07:34 <wpwrak> does "(A6+~A6)*(A5)" mean, in C parlance, "(A6 | ~A6) & A5" ? i.e., just A5 ?
2012-12-20 07:36 <wpwrak> Fallenou: i think with a little preprocessor, you could condense this a lot. there's plenty of redundancy in there
2012-12-20 07:36 <Fallenou> looks cool anyway to be able to tweak fpa bitstream with so low level
2012-12-20 07:37 <wpwrak> also, the way how things are references (by coordinates) is somewhat user-unfriendly. of course, it probably makes sense at the level at which the tools operate
2012-12-20 07:39 <wpwrak> for an API meant for human users, you'd probably have an "object" for those things at (55, 13), etc., then operate on properties of that object.
2012-12-20 07:41 <wpwrak> the object would be a pointer to a struct. since these objects correspond to physical circuits (i.e., LUTs and such; not abstract things like routes), they could be statically allocated, depending on the chip used
2012-12-20 07:42 <wpwrak> of course, there's the question whether creating such a "friendly" API would even make sense, considering that it would still be uncomfortably low for human users
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2012-12-20 07:44 <wpwrak> a bit like, in programming terms: the bitstream is machine language in hex codes, wolfgang's api is an assembler that translates mnemonics but doesn't have any symbols
2012-12-20 07:45 <wpwrak> the hypothetical "nice" API would be a regular assembler. but then, most people what to program in C or something even more distant from the bare metal
2012-12-20 07:50 <wpwrak> hmm, i see  logic_cfg.a2d[LUT_A].lut5 = "0";
2012-12-20 07:51 <wpwrak> and then  logic_cfg.a2d[LUT_C].lut5 = 0;
2012-12-20 07:51 <wpwrak> typo or just confusing non-use of NULL ?
2012-12-20 07:56 <xiangfu> wolfspraul: wpwrak : I tested the blinking led config bits file (gernerate by fpgatools (../blinking_led | ../fp2bit - blinking.bit). it works just fine on my slx9-qfp144 board.
2012-12-20 07:56 <wpwrak> actually, i just realize that the mayans were right after all. wolfgang just started the apocalypse for closed fpga synthesis :-)
2012-12-20 07:57 <wpwrak> whee, time for the champagne !!
2012-12-20 07:57 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: congratulations !
2012-12-20 07:59 <wpwrak> xiangfu: (qfp) so no nasty BGAs anymore ? that should help to make that board more accessible
2012-12-20 08:02 <xiangfu> since the fpgatools only support qfp144.
2012-12-20 08:02 <xiangfu> wpwrak: I am still working on ftg256. add spi flash and a bluetooth-serial modular.
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2012-12-20 08:34 <wpwrak> xiangfu: did you find a BT module with sufficiently open documentation ?
2012-12-20 08:43 <xiangfu> wpwrak: no.
2012-12-20 08:43 <xiangfu> this one: http://www.wavesen.com/probig.asp?id=17
2012-12-20 08:44 <xiangfu> there are only 4 AT commands for this modular. (test, modify serial bandwidth, modify bluetooth name and password)
2012-12-20 08:46 <xiangfu> datasheet is here: (only chinese: http://www.wavesen.com/mysys/db_picture/news3/20121119115841101.pdf)
2012-12-20 08:52 <wpwrak> even the coin for the size comparison is chinese ;-)
2012-12-20 08:52 <xiangfu> I have tested with rfcomm command with my laptop.
2012-12-20 08:53 <xiangfu> it's like, laptop usb-serial <---> serial-bluetooth-modular <---> laptop rfcomm command through bluetooth. it's a circle
2012-12-20 08:54 <wpwrak> heh :) well, the serial interface seems to be sufficiently documented to tbe usable.
2012-12-20 08:54 <wpwrak> that's already something
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2012-12-20 10:16 <wolfspraul> yes, all feedback is correct, all acknowledged :-)
2012-12-20 10:17 <wolfspraul> higher-level structs and functions
2012-12-20 10:17 <wolfspraul> qfp144 and ftg256 both have different pros and cons
2012-12-20 10:17 <wolfspraul> qfp144 has a 0.5mm pitch, that's actually quite tough for diy boards
2012-12-20 10:18 <roh> sure.. but at the prices fusionpcb from seed costs... who cares.
2012-12-20 10:18 <wolfspraul> yes lut5="0" and lut5=0 are two different things. ="0" means that the lut5 is in use, and pulled low (gnd)
2012-12-20 10:18 <roh> atleast one can 'easily' solder such stuff
2012-12-20 10:18 <wolfspraul> lut5=0 means the lut5 is not in use, at that point I am probably overwriting a structure from before and 'resetting' the lut5 to 'not in use'
2012-12-20 10:19 <wolfspraul> (A6+~A6) is just a convention to say that A6 is not in use - it is pulled high and the lut functions as a two-lut system (two times 5 instead of one-time 6)
2012-12-20 10:19 <wolfspraul> xiangfu: thanks for testing!
2012-12-20 10:19 <wolfspraul> I shall continue with the jtag counter then :-)
2012-12-20 10:20 <wolfspraul> it took me 3 months to go from the AND gate to a simple clocked led blinker, let's hope it gets faster now
2012-12-20 10:21 <wolfspraul> for the higher level stuff, I will take a look at llvm backends
2012-12-20 10:21 <wolfspraul> that will give me some guidance (hopefully) how to design the higher-level functions
2012-12-20 10:22 <wolfspraul> http://llvm.org/docs/WritingAnLLVMBackend.html
2012-12-20 10:23 <Fallenou> really good news, big congratulations wolfspraul :)
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2012-12-20 10:24 <wolfspraul> thanks
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2012-12-20 10:25 <wolfspraul> but it's still far from practically usable, I have to say
2012-12-20 10:25 <wolfspraul> we will see
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2012-12-20 10:25 <wolfspraul> I start to realize how much work the synthesis is actually doing :-)
2012-12-20 10:26 <wolfspraul> with the AND gate, that wasn't so obvious yet, but for sure by the time I play with the J1 soc, it will be pretty obvious...
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2012-12-20 14:40 <lindi-> wpwrak: I have worked with llvm stuff for the last two years, I might be able to help you in some questions
2012-12-20 14:40 <lindi-> wolfspraul: sorry, meant you
2012-12-20 14:41 <wolfspraul> thanks
2012-12-20 14:41 <wolfspraul> not sure I know the questions now
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2012-12-20 16:29 <whitequark> wolfspraul: I also have some experience with LLVM and might be able to help
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2012-12-20 18:04 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (=0 vs. ="0") why not use NULL instead of =0 ? otherwise, it's extremely confusing and will mislead people
2012-12-20 18:06 <lekernel> iirc the C standard also allows NULL to be non-zero. haven't heard of an actual platform twisted enough to do that, though.
2012-12-20 18:08 <lekernel> and yes: http://c-faq.com/null/ptrtest.html
2012-12-20 18:08 <lekernel> some people have too much time on their hands
2012-12-20 18:09 <whitequark> that's why C++11 defines nullptr type
2012-12-20 18:24 <wpwrak> (too much time) why ? it's a legitimate concern
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2012-12-20 18:47 <lekernel> why would a hardware or OS developer need a non-zero NULL pointer?
2012-12-20 18:49 <lekernel> I also have a feeling that a lot of software we use today would break if compiled for a platform where NULL != 0 :)
2012-12-20 18:52 <whitequark> lekernel: in fact llvm assumes it's 0, which basically means that all software, if compiled with clang
2012-12-20 18:52 <whitequark> not sure about gcc.
2012-12-20 18:55 <whitequark> afaik yes, optimizer likes this fact
2012-12-20 19:09 <wpwrak> lekernel: your application wouldn't normally see that NULL is internally not all zero bits. similar to 0.0 not necessarily being all zero.
2012-12-20 19:17 <viric> lekernel: '0', evaluated as a pointer, may not have an integer representation of all bits zero
2012-12-20 19:17 <viric> so '(int) ((void *) 0)' may be different than '(int) 0'. :)
2012-12-20 19:18 <viric> NULL simply is translated as '((void *) 0)'
2012-12-20 19:18 <viric> A good compiler, where a null pointer is 0xffff, will not have "#define NULL 0xffff"
2012-12-20 19:18 <wpwrak> viric: are you sure about the cast ? for consistency, it may still yield 0.
2012-12-20 19:19 <viric> It will have "#define NULL ((void *) 0)"
2012-12-20 19:19 <wpwrak> (i'm too lazy to look up what the standard has to say about it, though :)
2012-12-20 19:19 <viric> umh I also can't cite much. But if '0' is evaluated as a pointer, it evaluates as the *null pointer*, regardless of it being zero or not.
2012-12-20 19:19 <wpwrak> where you would notice are things like memset or unions used for type conversion
2012-12-20 19:20 <viric> but then, how to write the memory address zero? I don't know. :)
2012-12-20 19:20 <wpwrak> yes, (type *) 0 is always a "null pointer"
2012-12-20 19:21 <wpwrak> easy: C doesn't define hardware addresses :)
2012-12-20 19:21 <viric> yes, that sounds right.
2012-12-20 19:21 <wpwrak> so you'd use some architecture-specific hack
2012-12-20 19:21 <viric> yes
2012-12-20 19:22 <viric> http://c-faq.com/null/nullor0.html
2012-12-20 19:23 <wpwrak> #define NUL is asking for trouble ;-)
2012-12-20 19:24 <wpwrak> of course, so are people who speak of a "NULL (sic) character"
2012-12-20 19:24 <viric> yes
2012-12-20 19:24 <viric> You can define NIL too
2012-12-20 19:24 <viric> or NIHIL
2012-12-20 19:24 <viric> :)
2012-12-20 19:24 <viric> or all of them
2012-12-20 19:25 <viric> #define ZERO     that also rocks
2012-12-20 19:25 <viric> if (NULL == ZERO) {... }
2012-12-20 19:25 <wpwrak> NIL may upset LISP programmers :)
2012-12-20 19:25 <wpwrak> argh ;-)
2012-12-20 19:26 <viric> so, who needs macros? noone
2012-12-20 19:26 <wpwrak> actually, wolfgang, a CLEAR(x) macro for  memset(&(x), 0, sizeof(x))  may be handy in your fpgatools examples
2012-12-20 19:26 <wpwrak> naw, macros are cool
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2012-12-20 19:32 <wolfspraul> nice idea - done
2012-12-20 19:32 <wolfspraul> thanks!
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2012-12-20 19:44 * wpwrak wonder why NXP always have to use such anal pin names. PIO0_1 instead of P0_1 for pin 1 on port 0, CT32B0_MAT2 instead of something like T0M2 for the 2nd match output of timer 0, ...
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2012-12-20 21:01 <wpwrak> hehe, XC6SLX9-CSG324 (in kicad-libs/components/xc6slx9-csg324.lib) ... how that's a HUGE beast ;-)
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2012-12-20 21:31 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/HIERARCHY: add XC6SLX9-CSG324 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e10d1e9
2012-12-20 21:31 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/lpc1100-qfn33.lib: NXP LPC11xx series in HVQFN33 package (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/ecba9a3
2012-12-20 22:11 <whitequark> wpwrak: to avoid collisions in global namespace?
2012-12-20 22:17 <wpwrak> whitequark: hmm, with names like "R" or "AD1". the "R" even collides internally.
2012-12-20 22:17 <wpwrak> (i.e., there are several non-equivalent pins where one of the names is "R")
2012-12-20 22:19 <wpwrak> (one of the names) as in R/PIO1_2/AD3/CT32B1_MAT1 or R/PIO0_11/AD0/CT32B0_MAT3
2012-12-20 22:27 <wpwrak> what the "R" means is that this pin could have an additional function that is "reserved". the concept of indicating this in the pin names alone is somewhat mind-boggling.
2012-12-20 22:29 <wpwrak> and of course, the immediately visible problem with things like PIO0_1 is that you have two visually very similar characters (O and 0) right next to each other.
2012-12-20 22:51 <whitequark> ugh. yes.
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2012-12-20 22:52 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/lpc1100-qfn33.lib: remove dubious "R" (reserved) pin function (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/1f0d15c
2012-12-20 22:52 <wpwrak> restored at least a bit of sanity :)
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