2012-11-30 00:28 guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 00:43 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 01:04 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 01:05 xiangfu has quit [Client Quit] 2012-11-30 01:06 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 01:15 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 01:43 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-30 01:48 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 01:58 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-11-30 02:03 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 02:08 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-11-30 02:12 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2012-11-30 02:15 wej, what is the minimal pcb-via you have been made at home? 2012-11-30 02:16 one layer is no enough for me. I have to jump to 2 layer soon. 2012-11-30 02:17 guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 02:17 "wej" or "wpwrak" ? :) 2012-11-30 02:20 my small vias have an outer diameter of 30 mil (0.76 mm). i wouldn't make them much smaller, because you run into registration problems otherwise 2012-11-30 02:20 registration = location of layers with respect to each other. e.g., when you make the back layer, it'll be shifted a bit with respect to the font layer 2012-11-30 02:20 s/font/front/ 2012-11-30 02:20 wpwrak meant: "registration = location of layers with respect to each other. e.g., when you make the back layer, it'll be shifted a bit with respect to the front layer" 2012-11-30 02:21 with vias that size, the errors are usually small enough - in a DIY process - that there's no problem you couldn't work around. 2012-11-30 02:22 in an industrial process, you have better tolerances. you'd have to ask the fab what minimum via sizes they offer. 2012-11-30 02:22 you also have the choice between etching both sides of the PCB at once or in separate passes 2012-11-30 02:24 both sides at once saves time but yields large registration errors (typically up to about 0.5 mm). that's still fixable. 2012-11-30 02:24 one side at a time is better. there, you can expect almost perfect results (0.1-0.2 mm). but it takes more time. 2012-11-30 02:26 ( (0.76 mm)) ok. in my kicad. I send it to 0.6mm 2012-11-30 02:27 ("wej" or "wpwrak" ? :)) wpwrak :) 2012-11-30 02:27 the etching was very good on 0.6mm/0.3mm via. the problem is I am not sure I can drill that hole. 2012-11-30 02:28 (one side at a time is better.) yes. 2012-11-30 02:28 erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 02:28 yeah, drilling is messy. i'm VERY happy that my CNC mill does that for me. and it doesn't break drill bits, or almost never :) 2012-11-30 02:29 (one side at a time) what i do is this: i put the toner transfer paper on the table, then i drop the pcb on it, align it, and then fix it with adhesive tape on two sides. that gives very precise positions. 2012-11-30 02:30 of course, my boards from the cnc mill already have exact geometry 2012-11-30 02:30 in your case, you'd drill after the etching. so the first side will be perfect while the second side will be harder. 2012-11-30 02:30 btw xiangfu is getting really good on a number of steps :-) I think he can solder bgas in his oven as well now 2012-11-30 02:31 it's too many details so I cannot follow everywhere, but slowly he turns into a little factory :-) 2012-11-30 02:31 then it's time to outsource, I guess 2012-11-30 02:31 kewl :) i'm still too scared about them. particularly their lack of debuggability. 2012-11-30 02:31 so drilling now 2012-11-30 02:32 btw, an interesting idea: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Crowdfunding-fuer-Hardware-Tueftler-1759255.html 2012-11-30 02:32 wpwrak, (my boards from the cnc mill already have exact geometry) you drill the holes after etching both side right? 2012-11-30 02:32 oh crowdfunding is booming right now 2012-11-30 02:32 wpwrak, I PLAN TO etching one side --> drill holes --> etching another side. 2012-11-30 02:33 I see so many crazy projects being funded, it's nice 2012-11-30 02:33 xiangfu: no, i first drill, then i cut the board, and then i do the toner transfer 2012-11-30 02:33 I fully expect >90% of them to fail entirely, but still good to see so many experiments funded 2012-11-30 02:33 wpwrak, what kind of tools for cutting pcb? 2012-11-30 02:33 xiangfu: so it's the just the reverse of a manual process 2012-11-30 02:33 let's hope it lasts and the donors/backers/hopeful will not wear out 2012-11-30 02:33 xiangfu: the same CNC mill :) 2012-11-30 02:34 it's fun to see the inevitable "he are the reasons for our latest delay" dramas 2012-11-30 02:34 ;-)) 2012-11-30 02:34 openpandora is still chewing on their 2008 preorder list 2012-11-30 02:34 there must have been several hundred dramas in between 2012-11-30 02:35 and now we have hundreds of openpandoras - yay! 2012-11-30 02:35 (bgas in oven) yes. now I have thermometer and camera used when cook bga. :) it gets much better. 2012-11-30 02:35 perhaps we should get into crowdfunding, too. some project that's not too sexy to get stolen right away. 2012-11-30 02:35 that may be a new way to educate people, since I don't believe that much in academia 2012-11-30 02:35 now it's happening via kickstarter - cool! 2012-11-30 02:35 wpwrak, CNC mill. great. 2012-11-30 02:35 well the problem is the promise-competition 2012-11-30 02:35 wolfspraul: the real life school of hard knocks ;-) 2012-11-30 02:35 wpwrak, I cut by hand. :( 2012-11-30 02:35 you really have to over-promise big time, since everybody fails anyway 2012-11-30 02:35 like "reinvent the lightbulb" 2012-11-30 02:36 our 2 man team out of a garage can do what Philipps cannot... 2012-11-30 02:36 xiangfu: i did that too. it's okay. just more work. and you never the get board geometry exactly right. 2012-11-30 02:36 now you find someone who believes you, urgh 2012-11-30 02:36 xiangfu: and of course, something like ubb or atben would be a pain (uSD card shape) 2012-11-30 02:37 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/limemouse/lifx-the-light-bulb-reinvented 2012-11-30 02:37 I rather buy the meethue.com starter pack in my nearby apple temple... :-) 2012-11-30 02:37 wolfspraul: well, it's the same everywhere. you have to look sexier than the rest to get chosen :) 2012-11-30 02:37 I see this growth of 'crowdfunding' really as a booster for education 2012-11-30 02:38 there are hundreds and thousands of people that finally can go after the really fun experiments 2012-11-30 02:38 USD 1.3 M. cute. 2012-11-30 02:38 yep 2012-11-30 02:38 that's enough for a few folks for a few years of drama 2012-11-30 02:38 that may be more than philips have for blue sky research projects :) 2012-11-30 02:38 and after that they are really good :-) 2012-11-30 02:38 hopefully they won't invest it in an extended carribean vacation right away though 2012-11-30 02:38 or even a little beach house there 2012-11-30 02:39 yeah, that would suck 2012-11-30 02:39 panda|x201 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-30 02:39 depends for whom 2012-11-30 02:39 for everyone but them 2012-11-30 02:39 I also see a number of ic-related experiments getting funded 2012-11-30 02:39 it would also hurt future projects 2012-11-30 02:39 like parallela 2012-11-30 02:39 not sure 2012-11-30 02:39 vcs also deal with 90% failure rates 2012-11-30 02:40 it's early for the whole crowdfunding thing 2012-11-30 02:40 time to draw up the plans for your matter-antimatter chip :) 2012-11-30 02:40 totally 2012-11-30 02:40 (failure) i think failure is okay. fraud isn't. makes people paranoid. 2012-11-30 02:40 of couse, that moment will inevitably come 2012-11-30 02:40 hah, looking at the lifx team 2012-11-30 02:40 100% male of course :-) 2012-11-30 02:40 well 2012-11-30 02:41 let the drama start! the 'backers' paid, now the show shall begin 2012-11-30 02:41 (lifx) you're just envious :) 2012-11-30 02:41 absolutely 2012-11-30 02:41 I get that early om feeling again 2012-11-30 02:41 we can take on the giants with 10 friends 2012-11-30 02:41 sure we can! 2012-11-30 02:42 I am sure they will be having lots of fun, and learn lots of things 2012-11-30 02:42 [commit] Paul Cercueil: Enable support for multiple .desktop for one platform inside OPKs (packages) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/efdf766 2012-11-30 02:43 well, every once in a while, someone succeeds with such crazy plans 2012-11-30 02:43 yes 2012-11-30 02:43 like I said, it's great to see this opening up now 2012-11-30 02:44 this is one of the successful (successfully funded) ic projects http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone 2012-11-30 02:44 some play money to 'tape-out' stuff 2012-11-30 02:44 nice :-) 2012-11-30 02:45 that's one thing I would still like to do, since all the rest I already did and feel good about 2012-11-30 02:47 rejon motivated me to buy a 100 USD sewing machine at ikea yesterday 2012-11-30 02:47 I will take it apart to see how much mechanical and electrical is inside, which will probably make it dysfunctional. oh well. 2012-11-30 02:47 we had that "let's go to ikea" urge suddenly 2012-11-30 02:48 interesting to see that ikea has a section now with sewing machine and selling garments etc 2012-11-30 02:48 (make chips) sounds like fun. but i think you're onto something worth following with the fpga analysis. 2012-11-30 02:48 ah yes, of course 2012-11-30 02:48 erikkugel has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-11-30 02:49 this project toped (toped.org.uk) has a scripting language 'tell' 2012-11-30 02:49 the name is all I know about it right now 2012-11-30 02:49 maybe I can work on a fp2tell utility one day 2012-11-30 02:49 fp = fpga floorplan 2012-11-30 02:49 but yes of course, I focus on the fpga and to bring out what is unique about that chip, the programmability etc. 2012-11-30 02:50 this week I took a rest on fpgatools to cleanup some systems/servers/backup etc. 2012-11-30 02:50 almost ready to jump back in 2012-11-30 02:50 creative break :) 2012-11-30 02:51 that, and a bottle of wine, often helps to get out of mental loops :) 2012-11-30 03:32 oh wow, I just notice that one of the two raid1 disks in the new buildhost is faulty and the server is limping along on one leg 2012-11-30 03:32 good to find that before I move more stuff onto this server, so let's see how hetzner handles it and expect some (hopefully not too much) downtime on this machine... 2012-11-30 03:35 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 03:45 lekernel_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 03:45 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-11-30 03:57 guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 04:01 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-11-30 04:01 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 05:57 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 06:10 wolfspraul: downtime? for raid1 recovery? hmm. I'd think there should be better ways depending on hw, and for sure Hetzner should be able to handle a hotswap 2012-11-30 06:11 usually you migtht (not) notice some reduced performance during sync of the new HDD 2012-11-30 06:21 well let's see 2012-11-30 06:21 I am waiting until the last backup finishes, then I file a support ticket :-) 2012-11-30 06:24 how you're doing backup? 2012-11-30 06:35 yes good question 2012-11-30 06:35 I went through many iterations 2012-11-30 06:35 from a plain rsync 'through' the live rootfs 2012-11-30 06:35 not really recoverable 2012-11-30 06:36 then smarter ways with flushing and read-locking mysql, then lvm snapshots, then rsyncing those 2012-11-30 06:36 and now I am trying lxc instead of kvm, and the same mysql-read-lock+lvm snapshot on the entire lxc container including configuration 2012-11-30 06:36 so theoretically I think I could bring up the system on a new physical machine with a downtime not much more than my uploading time of the rootfs 2012-11-30 06:37 but then I rarely/never test such recoveries, so it's more like a plan... :-) 2012-11-30 07:25 panda|x201 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 07:39 jluis|work has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 07:41 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-30 07:44 larsc has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-30 07:44 larsc has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 07:57 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 08:01 methril has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 08:25 wolfspraul: academia, for all its faults, have fewer issues like http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1091976372/open-source-5-axis-cnc-router-and-plasma-machine-p vs. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joylabs/makey-makey-an-invention-kit-for-everyone 2012-11-30 08:28 in other words: you can get research and development funded without having to get thousands of people to understand it and support it directly 2012-11-30 08:30 you wouldn't get, say, the first laser diode funded on something like kickstarter 2012-11-30 08:40 I don't understand the point 2012-11-30 08:41 there is no denying that kickstarter works, very well, and moves lots of money 2012-11-30 08:41 why should you be the judge on which project gets funded? :-) 2012-11-30 08:41 it's the backers... 2012-11-30 08:42 banana piano - nice! :-) 2012-11-30 08:43 and it seems they shipped on time and as promised - awesome 2012-11-30 08:45 lekernel_: i think the main issues of that project are that 1) there are only very few people for whom it would be of immediate practical use, and 2) the number of people just willing to sponsor without expecting any specific return isn't very large 2012-11-30 08:47 things need to be 'shut up and take my money'-concrete .. and you need to really invest money/time into that fscking video ;) 2012-11-30 08:47 so if your idea isnt something obvious and useable to the average viewer.. its hard. 2012-11-30 08:49 that's the deal, yes 2012-11-30 08:50 after all, you're expected to provide a list of items that come out of it. kickstarter also limit the scope of projects, possibly to avoid trying too many new things at once. 2012-11-30 08:50 well.. lets see where circuits.io and similar bring us... i believe in the end one needs a business which works withoit such extreme pr to be successfull in the long run. 2012-11-30 08:51 wpwrak: kickstarter didnt like beer.. and europeans.. so my friend went somewhere else 2012-11-30 08:52 wpwrak: http://www.inkubato.com/de/projekte/bogkbier 2012-11-30 08:53 so.. well.. yes.. science can be funded. but you need to make it a bit mythbustery and give the people something to cheer about 2012-11-30 08:55 roh: nice links, I will check those. thanks! 2012-11-30 08:56 21,000 EUR for that beer! 2012-11-30 08:56 GREAT! 2012-11-30 08:57 that's an expensive beer :) 2012-11-30 08:57 it's for the rescue! 2012-11-30 08:57 :-) 2012-11-30 08:57 rescue missions are expensive 2012-11-30 08:59 i am a bit confused about this one 2012-11-30 08:59 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/limemouse/lifx-the-light-bulb-reinvented 2012-11-30 08:59 didnt philips just announce and ship something like that? 2012-11-30 09:01 well.. i'll stay away from line voltage projects for now anyhow. too much certification stuff needed for overseas shipping 2012-11-30 09:03 wolfspraul: so if some scientist wanted to invent the laser diode on kickstarter, he'd have to promise $10 laser pointers (and ship dozens of millions of units to make it down to that cost) and stay credible :-) 2012-11-30 09:06 lekernel_ is now known as lekernel 2012-11-30 09:11 well.. we stay at producing stuff... got a new machine recently 2012-11-30 09:12 a big cutting plotter... cutting foil up to something like 1800x800mm 2012-11-30 09:12 retrofit hp pen plotter eating hpgl 2012-11-30 09:13 lekernel: you could also offer a honorable mention on the project's web site for a little less :) (and maybe people who check that option can increase the amount they pay. not sure if kicstarter has that - i've been told that idea.me does) 2012-11-30 09:16 i dont think one can fund fundamental physics projects... 2012-11-30 09:24 hmm, try pure mathematics for a proper challenge :) 2012-11-30 09:26 there's a nice joke about applied mathematics. alas, it only works in german: "es gibt die angewandte mathematik und die abgewandte mathematik" 2012-11-30 09:48 otoh math research is relatively inexpensive (unless you need supercomputers, and still) 2012-11-30 09:49 if you use computers, it's not pure anymore :) 2012-11-30 09:51 haha 2012-11-30 10:16 roh: I'm starting my sewing machine learning. bought a 100 USD sewing machine at ikea and will take it apart 2012-11-30 10:16 interestingly ikea has a new section with a sewing machine and fabric etc. 2012-11-30 10:17 maybe that thingie has no electronics at all, just electro-mechanical? I shall find out :-) 2012-11-30 10:17 I mean no microcontroller etc. 2012-11-30 10:18 does it have a display ? 2012-11-30 10:18 I don't think so (still in the box) 2012-11-30 10:19 even if there is no serious electronics inside, it's a starting point for me 2012-11-30 10:19 I rather start with a 100 usd thingie before moving on to more expensive stuff 2012-11-30 10:19 trying to draw your wife into hacking ? :) 2012-11-30 10:19 no no 2012-11-30 10:20 jon said "ikea is now selling sewing machines" and I said "let's buy one and take apart" 2012-11-30 10:20 that's about it right now 2012-11-30 10:21 interesting reasoning :) 2012-11-30 10:21 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 10:25 roh: do you think circuits.io can get some tracking? 2012-11-30 10:26 seems they are just starting 2012-11-30 10:33 wolfspraul: i hope so 2012-11-30 10:33 wolfspraul: but i think it needs to grow up a bit... still only simple stuff there as far as i can see 2012-11-30 10:34 i wonder if there is a nicer word than 'tinkering' or 'hacking' for 'buying something readymade and reusing/abusing it by a documented pattern 2012-11-30 10:35 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 10:35 since the result is then a combination of commercial, usually closed and some opensource technology/design.. maybe it needs its own word ;) 2012-11-30 10:36 yes 2012-11-30 10:36 agree 2012-11-30 10:36 not sure highlighting the tech parts is a good idea, but it looks like a very clean project so let's see 2012-11-30 10:36 I don't need any of that stuff though :-) 2012-11-30 10:36 bogk-bier.de is impressive however 2012-11-30 10:38 the setup reminds me a bit of http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/main.htm 2012-11-30 10:42 wolfspraul: :) 2012-11-30 10:43 lekernel: yeah.. just that its more an art than pure science 2012-11-30 10:43 in the end.. its a human who consumes it, not a machine.. so its not only purely scientific facts that count 2012-11-30 10:58 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 11:21 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 11:24 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 11:26 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2012-11-30 11:36 lekernel_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 11:36 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 11:41 lekernel_ is now known as lekernel 2012-11-30 11:52 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 12:03 lekernel_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 12:03 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 12:05 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2012-11-30 12:17 lifx-bulb? haha, just seen that one at Conrad, basically 2012-11-30 12:17 lindi- has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 12:17 it seemed to have a 430MHz remote, replacing by WiFi probably is a weekend project 2012-11-30 12:17 lindi- has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 12:17 lindi- has quit [Changing host] 2012-11-30 12:17 lindi- has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 12:19 DocScrutinizer05: they also want to do full color like meethue.com 2012-11-30 12:19 ohwell, iPhone reinvented the wheel from beginning, I recall #openmoko laughing about iPhone "new innovative" capabilities like 5 years ago 2012-11-30 12:19 full color? 2012-11-30 12:20 like in RGB LED? That's exactly what that conrad lightbulb did, even looked exactly like the lifx one 2012-11-30 12:22 yes 2012-11-30 12:22 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2012-11-30 12:22 the conrad one is maybe from Samsung? 2012-11-30 12:23 if Phillips has this then Samsung cannot be that far behind I would think, or even Osram? I don't know... 2012-11-30 12:23 lifx will have a good time learning though, right? now that they got a 1.3m educational budget :-) 2012-11-30 12:23 looked like samsung 2012-11-30 12:23 I'm happy for them... 2012-11-30 12:24 though they rebranded it "Conrad" 2012-11-30 12:24 WTF???? 1.3M for a weekend project???????? 2012-11-30 12:26 well production cost too 2012-11-30 12:26 dang, for 0.3M I'll find a fsckng iPhone coder monkey. I'll do the swapping of 433MHz RX vs WiFi module on a weekend and have a nice travel to Taiwan for the remaining 1.0M 2012-11-30 12:29 well and they only wanted 100k anyway 2012-11-30 12:33 silly, 100k might not really last till end of your life 2012-11-30 12:36 with 1M+ you must be a douchebag to not be able to live from interest 2012-11-30 12:37 or is that italian lira or NTD or sth? 2012-11-30 12:37 it's a whole bunch of people and they probably believe the stuff they write on the project page, so they will go fight mighty Samsung/Phillips/Osram etc. now 2012-11-30 12:37 and "reinvent the lightbulb" 2012-11-30 12:38 at the end of which the 1.3M will be gone and they will all be a lot wiser :-) 2012-11-30 12:38 LOL, that's a hoax, they even used the original product pictures 2012-11-30 12:38 more power to them! 2012-11-30 12:38 yes I know, the use Samsung mechanical stuff which alone would probably cost >1M to pull off :-) 2012-11-30 12:38 no need to figt anybody 2012-11-30 12:38 DocScrutinizer05: so just do it, heh? ;) 2012-11-30 12:39 seems they already did it 2012-11-30 12:39 anyway they will go reinvent now :-) 2012-11-30 12:39 hoax or not, let the drama start 2012-11-30 12:39 I'm already thinking of some similarly silly idea 2012-11-30 12:39 at the very least they owe their backers 'updates' with ever more absurd things that are happening :-) 2012-11-30 12:40 oh well 2012-11-30 12:40 at openpandora may favorite was the fedex truck which caught fire! 2012-11-30 12:40 loaded with a bunch of important openpandora parts and right before delivering them 2012-11-30 12:40 SO CLOSE! 2012-11-30 12:40 didn't they offer a real product which donations basically prepaid? 2012-11-30 12:41 lifx or openpandora? op is still "working" on the original 2008 predorders. with infinite dramas in between since then... 2012-11-30 12:41 lifx that is 2012-11-30 12:41 lifx no idea 2012-11-30 12:41 that's just starting now, a new show 2012-11-30 12:41 since conrad is asking an incredible 49EUR iirc 2012-11-30 12:41 the lifx thingies are so expensive they may just resell existing ones 2012-11-30 12:42 plus rework, you need to charge 150 per unit, to get (and stay) rich 2012-11-30 12:43 prolly it's a fart app for 1.99 then 2012-11-30 12:43 way less effort to do 'mass production' 2012-11-30 12:45 bbl, damn med.Doc has 45min til weekend, and I'm short on a prescription 2012-11-30 12:45 lekernel_ is now known as lekernel 2012-11-30 12:54 I finally got a raspberry pi thing... they don't have much code in upstream kernel either 2012-11-30 12:55 http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/361700/MUELLER-RGB-LED-mit-Farbwechselfunktion-und-Fernbedienung-E27-6-W-RGB/SHOP_AREA_22519&promotionareaSearchDetail=005 2012-11-30 12:56 and many blobs 2012-11-30 12:58 anyway, what are the devices you'd like to see? instead of those you don't want to see :) 2012-11-30 13:03 DocScrutinizer05: same but half the price http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/361131/Basetech-LED-RGB-mit-IR-Fernbedienung-E27-37W-Globeform/?ref=detview1&rtl=reco_detail_top&rb=1 2012-11-30 13:05 woakas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 13:05 lekernel: is the question for me? 2012-11-30 13:07 lekernel: in fact I'm happy with the sheevaplug kind of devices. They had some bad designs (power supplies burning up, requirement of moving mechanical parts, ...), but I think it's a good line. 2012-11-30 13:08 I haven't bought the pi for me; but a 512MB device is very nice, because it can natively build most things. No cross building required. 2012-11-30 13:09 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 2012-11-30 13:12 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 13:14 jluis|work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-11-30 13:17 DocScrutinizer05: maybe something like http://electricimp.com/ is the right thing for such an app 2012-11-30 13:28 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 13:28 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 13:37 it'd be great if the nanonote could build itself the software it runs 2012-11-30 13:43 yeap.. 2012-11-30 13:44 that can be done 1) changing the nanonote or 2) changing the software ;) 2012-11-30 13:44 software :-) 2012-11-30 13:45 I've just tested... the raspberry pi runs at half the speed of the sheevaplug. 2012-11-30 13:45 I didn't expect a difference so big. 2012-11-30 13:46 how is that relate to self boostraping nanonote? i got lost.. 2012-11-30 13:46 I'm changing topics. 2012-11-30 13:46 software boostrasping* 2012-11-30 13:47 Before, I said that the sheevaplug can build its software just fine, with 512MiB of RAM, while the nanonote cannot. 2012-11-30 13:47 I could say something similar for the raspberry pi, if it had all the source for what it runs :) 2012-11-30 13:48 so basically the problem is ram, cause no matter how slow cpu is it will end someday or week.. ;-) 2012-11-30 13:48 you could use swap ! 2012-11-30 13:48 i read gentoo for yeeloong was build using 4Gb of swap and several days 2012-11-30 13:48 if something can run prboom, it should be able to build itself :) 2012-11-30 13:49 haah i ran it. like two years ago 2012-11-30 13:49 kristianpaul: I build NixOS just fine natively, in a fuloong minipc (1GB of RAM) 2012-11-30 13:49 was a binary hanging on somewhere.. 2012-11-30 13:49 kristianpaul: prboom is what I use most in my nanonote :) 2012-11-30 13:49 viric: and NixOS for nanonote :-) ? 2012-11-30 13:50 NixOS can only be natively built, now. 2012-11-30 13:50 but 'nanonixos' can be cross-built. 2012-11-30 13:50 can, why? 2012-11-30 13:50 So, there is NixOS for the sheevaplug, for the fuloong, but not for the nanonote. 2012-11-30 13:50 "can, why?" 2012-11-30 13:50 i mean sounds good, but sounds like an enforcements somwhere.. 2012-11-30 13:50 ? 2012-11-30 13:50 what sounds good? 2012-11-30 13:51 can only be natively built 2012-11-30 13:51 that^ 2012-11-30 13:51 no, that sounds bad. :) 2012-11-30 13:51 it'd be better if it could be cross built :) 2012-11-30 13:51 i dont like cross buitl :P 2012-11-30 13:51 Ah 2012-11-30 13:51 becus the bootstrap thing.. 2012-11-30 13:52 nut ignore me :-) 2012-11-30 13:52 well, I mean having the possibility. NixOS can't be natively built in the nanonote because it hasn't enough ram. 2012-11-30 13:52 but* 2012-11-30 13:52 only that. 2012-11-30 13:52 and why not use swap? whats the deal? 2012-11-30 13:52 well. swap and memory are quite different :) 2012-11-30 13:52 hehe 2012-11-30 13:52 use the cloud 2012-11-30 13:52 I hope you understand 'the deal' 2012-11-30 13:53 i try not thing about it ;) 2012-11-30 13:53 larsc: modprobe cloudmemory mem=4G 2012-11-30 13:56 excatly 2012-11-30 13:57 :) 2012-11-30 13:57 :-/ 2012-11-30 14:02 or modprobe cloudcpu ncpu=16 2012-11-30 14:05 ha 2012-11-30 14:20 paul_boddie has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 14:22 I never really looked at the Dingoo stuff until surfing Wikipedia recently, although I guess that a bunch of people develop for it here. Isn't the Dingoo very similar to the NanoNote in terms of hardware? 2012-11-30 14:25 an ingenic soc 2012-11-30 14:25 The "hardware evolution" of those products seems to be modest, and perhaps related to the development schedule of the SoC family, but I saw that the A380 has 64GB instead of 32GB RAM. 2012-11-30 14:25 Has the product that the NanoNote was based on evolved similarly? Did anyone keep track of that? 2012-11-30 14:31 larsc: half the price and almost half the power 2012-11-30 14:32 but actually I meant that one 2012-11-30 14:37 xiangfu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-11-30 14:40 64GB *RAM*?? 2012-11-30 14:40 sounds like a big iron rather than something palmtop 2012-11-30 14:41 well, googling for A380 will probably yield the right hits ;-P 2012-11-30 14:44 i guess he meant MB 2012-11-30 14:52 :nod: 2012-11-30 14:54 erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 14:55 Oops, was writing a mail talking about disk space and my brain froze on the wrong units. :-) 2012-11-30 14:55 Yes, 64MB versus 32MB. 2012-11-30 14:55 friggin bad timing: sailfish announces partnership with ST-E for getting NovaThor, just when I left the company 2012-11-30 14:57 two months ago I could've looked up all the internals of that Thorium modem 2012-11-30 14:57 now only a few cloudy memories are left over 2012-11-30 15:00 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 15:09 kyak has quit [] 2012-11-30 15:10 I guess the http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/AVT2_RC2_Reference_Board was tracking developments initially, but the effort stalled. 2012-11-30 15:11 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 15:11 kyak has quit [Changing host] 2012-11-30 15:11 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 15:29 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 15:32 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2012-11-30 15:34 I guess I should note some of the old discussions from the mailing list down on the Wiki somewhere. For example, http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-January/001588.html covers the SAKC board and even touches on OpenRISC. And http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-January/001593.html covers the AVT2 board. 2012-11-30 15:39 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 15:44 I met some of the OpenRISC guys at FSCONS and they're still doing stuff. 2012-11-30 15:57 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2012-11-30 16:10 DocScrutinizer05: why did you left? 2012-11-30 16:11 left? 2012-11-30 16:11 ST-E? 2012-11-30 16:11 qwebirc34025 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 16:11 whitequark: left what? 2012-11-30 16:11 yeah, ST-E 2012-11-30 16:12 they had a hard time and set all external contractors free 2012-11-30 16:13 actually scratch that with 'hard time' since I don't know the reasons 2012-11-30 16:13 hm. reminds me how TI got out of mobile. 2012-11-30 16:17 I was at Ericcson a couple of weeks ago to give a presentation, a day before that they announced that they would let go 10%, in the end only 3 people showed up at the presentation... 2012-11-30 16:21 I also met some Ericsson people at FSCONS. Hello to them if they're reading! 2012-11-30 16:39 larsc: at least they didn't blame you :) 2012-11-30 16:40 qwebirc34025 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-11-30 16:41 Jurting_pc2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-11-30 16:53 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 16:53 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 17:04 paul_boddie has quit [Quit: Kopete 0.11.3 : http://kopete.kde.org] 2012-11-30 17:05 methril_home has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 17:08 methril has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 17:08 panda|z has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-30 17:08 panda|z has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 17:17 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-30 17:30 jurting has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-11-30 17:47 jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 17:49 rz2k has quit [] 2012-11-30 18:15 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 18:23 nerd has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 18:23 Ornotermes has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-11-30 18:25 Ornotermes has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 18:35 nerd is now known as harsh_bhatt 2012-11-30 18:38 harsh_bhatt is now known as nerd 2012-11-30 18:51 lekernel_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 18:53 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 2012-11-30 18:56 lekernel has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-11-30 19:01 kristian1aul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 19:07 kristianpaul has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-11-30 19:08 woakas has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-30 19:26 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 19:26 LunaVorax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-11-30 20:10 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 20:19 kristian1aul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-30 20:43 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 21:03 GNUtoo|laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 21:07 GNUtoo|laptop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-11-30 21:52 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 22:23 erikkugel has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-11-30 22:41 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2012-11-30 22:52 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 23:05 dandon_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-30 23:07 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-30 23:07 dandon_ is now known as dandon 2012-11-30 23:28 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-11-30 23:54 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware