2012-11-12 00:22 all embedded http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/11-2010-Bowman.pdf 2012-11-12 00:23 seems J1 forth is cool for solving those problems with less verilog and fancy hihg level optimization 2012-11-12 01:02 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 01:36 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-11-12 01:40 guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-12 02:14 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 02:17 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-12 02:21 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 02:23 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-12 02:33 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 02:36 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-11-12 02:38 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 02:38 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-11-12 02:42 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-11-12 02:43 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 03:05 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 03:07 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2012-11-12 03:10 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 03:10 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-12 03:37 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 03:37 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2012-11-12 04:04 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-11-12 04:04 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 04:04 liuqi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-12 05:46 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-12 05:47 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 06:22 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-11-12 06:27 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 06:30 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 08:10 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-12 08:15 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 08:30 jekhor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-11-12 08:31 mth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 08:35 panda|x201 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2012-11-12 08:49 panda|x201 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 09:07 eintopf has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 09:10 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 09:58 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 10:01 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2012-11-12 10:03 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 10:42 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 10:45 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-11-12 11:16 lekernel_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-11-12 11:31 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 11:32 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 11:33 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-11-12 11:35 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-11-12 11:36 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 12:05 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-11-12 12:32 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 12:42 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-12 12:43 Jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 12:49 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 13:53 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 13:57 erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 15:03 zrafa has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 15:03 hi 2012-11-12 15:03 how are you qiers? 2012-11-12 15:06 One comment/question: some of you tried to build an openrwrt rootfs and then to replace some android rootfs (in a phone or tablet) with the openwrt rootfs built? 2012-11-12 15:12 zrafa: the qi-world is quite silent these days ... 2012-11-12 15:13 wpwrak: hi!! :) 2012-11-12 15:13 wpwrak: I will do some noise to not let you sleep :) 2012-11-12 15:14 hmm, android kernel with openwrt rootfs. i guess that would depend a lot on how android distributes things between initramfs and rootfs. 2012-11-12 15:14 which would help for statitistics as well 2012-11-12 15:14 yeah ;-) 2012-11-12 15:14 wpwrak: yes. Some guy showed me here at uni 2012-11-12 15:15 wpwrak: a samsung phone with android, and he said me that he is able to replace kernel only, or android rootfs with another android rootfs, etc 2012-11-12 15:15 wpwrak: Then I checked a bit the old android version for freerunner 2012-11-12 15:15 s 2012-11-12 15:15 and I saw init at least in the android rootfs. Then I was guessing that maybe 2012-11-12 15:16 current android phones boot kernel, then mount and run init 2012-11-12 15:16 and then android sdk is ran from there. 2012-11-12 15:16 if there is cyanogenmod for your device, that may make things easier. at least i suppose they have full sources for most of the kernel. 2012-11-12 15:16 wpwrak: So I was asking me if openwrt/openembedded/whatever could be used 2012-11-12 15:16 as rootfs on those phones/tablets 2012-11-12 15:17 without to touch kernel part if the kernel part is not distribuited 2012-11-12 15:17 (so we do not break everything with out a rescue :P ) 2012-11-12 15:18 wpwrak: what is cyanongenmod :) 2012-11-12 15:18 ? 2012-11-12 15:18 hi rafa 2012-11-12 15:18 cyanogenmod the "free" android for some android devices 2012-11-12 15:19 "free" indeed... 2012-11-12 15:19 i think cyanogenmod should give you more control over the kernel than you'd have by using a fully closed vendor binary 2012-11-12 15:19 not-so-free 2012-11-12 15:19 kristianpaul: yeah, still with nasty binary-only drivers 2012-11-12 15:20 libraries.... 2012-11-12 15:20 GNUtoo-desktop: let's say, with a chain as long as you can get with android :) 2012-11-12 15:20 oh, user space is a different matter. 2012-11-12 15:20 indeed 2012-11-12 15:21 GNUtoo-desktop: libraries as well? 2012-11-12 15:21 tought was just kernel drivers 2012-11-12 15:21 no 2012-11-12 15:21 let me explain 2012-11-12 15:21 of course, some hardware bits may need (closed) user space drivers, which would involve also user space directly in hw support 2012-11-12 15:21 go ahead 2012-11-12 15:21 ahmm 2012-11-12 15:22 you're interested only in cyanogenmod or in all cases? 2012-11-12 15:22 because I've a presentation here: 2012-11-12 15:22 git clone git://gitorious.org/replicant/advocacy.git 2012-11-12 15:22 there are some schematics 2012-11-12 15:22 zrafa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-12 15:22 let's follow it together 2012-11-12 15:23 after everyone interested downloaded it 2012-11-12 15:23 Replicant_en.odp is the interesting one 2012-11-12 15:23 first schematics is Modem<->CPU 2012-11-12 15:24 modem is red because the code inside it is proprietary 2012-11-12 15:24 then "Problem Average Joe USer": what's in red is proprietary and what's in greed is free 2012-11-12 15:24 Note that firmwares are not taken in account here 2012-11-12 15:25 #18 ? 2012-11-12 15:25 #18 is a tipical qualcomm phone 2012-11-12 15:25 #5 then ? 2012-11-12 15:25 #10 is cyanogenmod: it's in yellow because it's half-free 2012-11-12 15:25 #11 is a zoom on #10's cyanogenmod 2012-11-12 15:26 wpwrak, in 5 I meant that CPU could be freed 2012-11-12 15:26 aren't there also some binary-only drivers in the cyg kernel ? 2012-11-12 15:26 not in my devices 2012-11-12 15:26 * kristianpaul installs openoffice 2012-11-12 15:26 in some other devices probably 2012-11-12 15:26 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 15:27 (cpu free) yup. and modems are always a mess. certain other things (wlan, gps, etc.) often enough as well. 2012-11-12 15:27 oh gps yeah.. 2012-11-12 15:27 and wlan well should be similar... 2012-11-12 15:28 yes 2012-11-12 15:28 actually gps could be considered as a soc inside a soc 2012-11-12 15:28 but modem has access to the network 2012-11-12 15:28 and is most of the time evil 2012-11-12 15:28 with embdded firmware 2012-11-12 15:28 yes 2012-11-12 15:29 I'm simplifying for explaining it to people that are not as knowledgable than you 2012-11-12 15:29 sure sure 2012-11-12 15:30 i guess they dragged zrafa off to lunch 2012-11-12 15:31 :p 2012-11-12 15:31 so it worth the effort GNUtoo-desktop ? 2012-11-12 15:31 freed 2012-11-12 15:31 since there are so many devices.... 2012-11-12 15:31 yes it is 2012-11-12 15:31 wpwrak, ( the qi-world is quite silent these days ...) silent is good for working hours. :-) 2012-11-12 15:31 see like osmocom commented some plans to build its own modem 2012-11-12 15:32 xiangfu: oh hi :-) 2012-11-12 15:32 many people wants replicant to succeed 2012-11-12 15:32 including RMS and eben moglen 2012-11-12 15:32 btw: I added a fped screenshot at here: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/electronics/fped 2012-11-12 15:32 kristianpaul, Hi. good evening. 2012-11-12 15:33 kristianpaul, the thing is that we can't target all phones, but we can free some good ones 2012-11-12 15:33 so people buy a phone compatible with replicant 2012-11-12 15:33 for instance here in europe, the galaxy S is cheap (90E second hand) 2012-11-12 15:34 * kristianpaul have a galaxy ace 2012-11-12 15:34 actually downloaded some source from samsung... yday 2012-11-12 15:34 kristianpaul, that's not compatible unfortunately....unless you do the port 2012-11-12 15:34 yeah ... :-/ 2012-11-12 15:34 was cheapo here 2012-11-12 15:34 xiangfu: nice. make people feel the power ;-) 2012-11-12 15:34 i did the surbey :) 2012-11-12 15:34 unfortunately the first galaxy ace is qualcomm 2012-11-12 15:35 hum hum 2012-11-12 15:35 indeed 2012-11-12 15:35 so even you free the phone still the network 2012-11-12 15:36 remenber in the USA carriers not leting openmokos to be used? 2012-11-12 15:36 there are several degrees of freedom yes 2012-11-12 15:36 * xiangfu document the home-made-pcb here: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Mini-slx9. 2012-11-12 15:36 ah? 2012-11-12 15:36 but having the maximum freedom is very important 2012-11-12 15:36 I mean the maximum possible 2012-11-12 15:36 for instance with qualcomm the mic is attached to the modem 2012-11-12 15:37 GNUtoo-desktop: yup. it's definitely a step in the right direction 2012-11-12 15:37 which makes listennign you when you're not calling possible 2012-11-12 15:37 and having to be selective when it comes to buying hardware isn't anything new 2012-11-12 15:37 try to do that with an openmoko..... 2012-11-12 15:37 yes 2012-11-12 15:37 oh no 2012-11-12 15:37 sure 2012-11-12 15:38 kristianpaul, next time talk to me at least 2012-11-12 15:38 before buying 2012-11-12 15:38 well, i wouldn't worry too much about the conspiracy theory scenarios. the main issue is functionality. 2012-11-12 15:38 GNUtoo-desktop: will do 2012-11-12 15:39 wpwrak, it really happened for people listened at when they were not in calls 2012-11-12 15:39 of course, in this case, the two may merrily coincide :) 2012-11-12 15:40 trough the cases we know are trough court order 2012-11-12 15:40 but in so many countries you don't really need a court order for that 2012-11-12 15:40 (if it's legal or not is not the question) 2012-11-12 15:41 GNUtoo-desktop: since this is not a universal feature, these must be very specific attacks. at some point, they'll just bug your office, car, and home. so the phone doesn't add a lot more. 2012-11-12 15:41 that doesn't scale 2012-11-12 15:41 individualized attacks often don't 2012-11-12 15:41 and it requires efforts, money etc.... 2012-11-12 15:42 but the "subvert modem firmware" depends on having a device that lets you do that 2012-11-12 15:42 in france, very long time ago there was some watergate-ilke scandal 2012-11-12 15:42 with the french president mitterand 2012-11-12 15:42 that's what i meant with it not being a universal feature 2012-11-12 15:43 he ordered to listen to many personalities's phones 2012-11-12 15:43 it was illegal still 2012-11-12 15:43 of course, it's a good idea to avoid such devices, to prevent the feature from becoming more common 2012-11-12 15:43 GNUtoo-desktop: i was looking functionality and price phone is mostly for work 2012-11-12 15:43 ok 2012-11-12 15:43 but i do consider cynamodgen :) 2012-11-12 15:44 considered* 2012-11-12 15:44 GNUtoo-desktop: if you start with illegal wiretapping, bugging places is just one very small step. besides, there's already "legal" wiretapping in the networks. 2012-11-12 15:45 yes but let's consider that use case: 2012-11-12 15:45 I go to some conferences 2012-11-12 15:45 and they remote-activate my mic 2012-11-12 15:45 so they can listen what I tell 2012-11-12 15:45 it all depends on your threat model. if your government hates you, better start taking precautions. if it's just joe random hacker who may be after you, it's sufficient to not be among the 90% easiest targets. 2012-11-12 15:46 do you have a simtrace to verify that (remote-activate my mic) ? 2012-11-12 15:46 kristianpaul, I've the hardware yes 2012-11-12 15:46 but I've not a trace 2012-11-12 15:46 btw: https://terminal-profile.osmocom.org/ 2012-11-12 15:47 I added many phones there 2012-11-12 15:47 like gta04, galaxy nexus, palm pre etc... 2012-11-12 15:48 zrafa has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 15:48 sorry 2012-11-12 15:48 internet sucks here :( 2012-11-12 15:49 I read the qi hw irc logs :) 2012-11-12 15:49 and wiretaping could be problematic: imagine I'm discussing free software strategy in theses meetings 2012-11-12 15:49 ok 2012-11-12 15:51 cool, I did not understand anything :( 2012-11-12 15:51 sorry 2012-11-12 15:52 What are all of you talkinga about? Saying that kernel in android phones would not be useful for an openwrt rootfs (or openembedded, whatever)? 2012-11-12 15:53 like you boot those android kernels, mount openwrt rootfs, and then your rootfs built will not work? 2012-11-12 15:54 I've no idea how it started 2012-11-12 15:55 ah maybe you started talking about android 2012-11-12 15:55 GNUtoo-desktop: yes, I wanted to ask if somebody tried to build an openwrt rootfs (or openembedded rootfs) to use in an android phone 2012-11-12 15:56 GNUtoo-desktop: for examplke, without replacing the kernel part 2012-11-12 15:56 GNUtoo-desktop: if that is a problem (Problem=for example, kernel sources are not available for that phone/tablet) 2012-11-12 15:57 yes, me 2012-11-12 15:57 what's the device 2012-11-12 15:57 ? 2012-11-12 15:57 because we run android kernels recompiled and modified in SHR 2012-11-12 15:58 GNUtoo-desktop: I do not have any android phone/tablet :) 2012-11-12 15:58 so what's the goal? 2012-11-12 16:01 GNUtoo-desktop: but I would like to know if most of phones/tablets are similar. It is, if somebody did, then to replicate the work or 2012-11-12 16:01 no, it depends a lot on the SOC 2012-11-12 16:01 the best ones are the high end samsung ones that do not have qualcomm SOC 2012-11-12 16:02 it's very close to GNU/Linux 2012-11-12 16:02 else with qualcomm you are very far from GNU/Linux 2012-11-12 16:02 with nearly no mainline support 2012-11-12 16:02 etc... 2012-11-12 16:02 GNUtoo-desktop: the goal would be to learn if that is possible, and then to encourage to people to try a real linux on their devices 2012-11-12 16:03 GNUtoo-desktop: in which way it depends on the soc? I mean, if you have the kernel linux in the android phone (free or not, supposly no, with binary drivers and firmware) 2012-11-12 16:03 if the device is high end samsung without qualcomm SOC it's really easy to do it: 2012-11-12 16:03 we've already done it for nexus S 2012-11-12 16:03 it can be ported easily 2012-11-12 16:03 GNUtoo-desktop: but it boots and puts the kernel API to rootfs and userspace 2012-11-12 16:04 that's the problem: 2012-11-12 16:04 Jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-12 16:04 in qualcomm devices for instance they do not have alsa 2012-11-12 16:04 or maybe they do recently 2012-11-12 16:04 GNUtoo-desktop: or do you mean because the arch is too strange that it is difficult to cross compile? 2012-11-12 16:04 but it's not usable anyway 2012-11-12 16:04 no 2012-11-12 16:04 I mean it's a driver problem 2012-11-12 16:04 the qualcomm drivers are not standard 2012-11-12 16:04 GNUtoo-desktop: okey, if qualcomm does not have alsa. How android use the audio thing? With userspace drivers or something like that? 2012-11-12 16:04 for instance only to boot GNU/Linux is a pain 2012-11-12 16:05 they have a wrapper on top 2012-11-12 16:05 they have abstractions layer for audio 2012-11-12 16:05 same for every peripherals 2012-11-12 16:05 for instance the htc dream had no alsa 2012-11-12 16:05 GNUtoo-desktop: what is abstractions layers? userspace drivers? 2012-11-12 16:05 it had non-standard but free wifi (but firmware is non-free) 2012-11-12 16:05 yes 2012-11-12 16:05 GNUtoo-desktop: sorry for the ignorance 2012-11-12 16:05 libraries in userspace 2012-11-12 16:05 like the libaudio 2012-11-12 16:06 which will talk to java 2012-11-12 16:06 which will provide the API that the apps use 2012-11-12 16:06 GNUtoo-desktop: okey, now I see the problem you are talking about. The problem with a custom linux rootfs is that it would not have many drivers which android rootfs bring 2012-11-12 16:07 in all the devices I saw most of the kernel (firmwares apart) were free software 2012-11-12 16:07 but in qualcomm devices the drivers were non-standard 2012-11-12 16:07 they didn't implement the correct userspace interfaces 2012-11-12 16:07 GNUtoo-desktop: the companis of those phones/tables publish the sources of those kernels or android user space libraries? 2012-11-12 16:07 they publish kernel sources 2012-11-12 16:07 usually 2012-11-12 16:07 but not the userspace libs 2012-11-12 16:07 for instance look at that: 2012-11-12 16:08 which are not free software most of them (libs) ? 2012-11-12 16:08 https://raw.github.com/CyanogenMod/android_device_samsung_crespo/gingerbread-release/extract-files.sh 2012-11-12 16:08 it depend on the device 2012-11-12 16:08 look in the link I've just pasted for nexus S 2012-11-12 16:08 replicant wiki document what they do 2012-11-12 16:08 http://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/NexusSProprietary 2012-11-12 16:08 reading 2012-11-12 16:09 GNUtoo-desktop: those adb pull are taking the binary non-free software drivers libs? 2012-11-12 16:09 yes 2012-11-12 16:10 they're taking it from the device 2012-11-12 16:10 it's from cyanogenmod 2012-11-12 16:10 which uses theses 2012-11-12 16:10 ah.. okey. 2012-11-12 16:10 we (replicant) don't use them 2012-11-12 16:10 GNUtoo-desktop: do you know some effort of people documenting devices and if those bring or non complete kernel+drivers as free software, and which not? 2012-11-12 16:10 (android devices) 2012-11-12 16:11 only the people porting GNU/Linux can tell..... 2012-11-12 16:11 but some driver are shim 2012-11-12 16:11 some are not 2012-11-12 16:11 the ones which are not are sometimes non-standard 2012-11-12 16:11 such as audio 2012-11-12 16:12 arossDOTme has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 16:12 you get a complete driver in qualcomm devices 2012-11-12 16:12 but the interface is very different 2012-11-12 16:12 it's ioctl , and you can even send an mp3 to the device 2012-11-12 16:12 it's different from the alsa ioctls etc... 2012-11-12 16:12 and you can never know what problems you'll face 2012-11-12 16:13 but if you know well enough the devices, you can avoid somes 2012-11-12 16:13 ah.. okey. And android apps know how to talk with those interfaces of qualcom devices binary drivers right? 2012-11-12 16:13 which are non standar 2012-11-12 16:14 xiangfu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-11-12 16:15 yes, the android apps talk to the java framework 2012-11-12 16:15 which talks to the libs 2012-11-12 16:15 which talks to the kernel 2012-11-12 16:15 which talks to the hardware 2012-11-12 16:16 ah.. oke. then the java framework are the ones who know how to talk with those nonfree userspace libs/drivers 2012-11-12 16:16 the non-free userspace libs implement the same interfaces 2012-11-12 16:16 like non-free audio lib from qualcomm 2012-11-12 16:17 or non-free audio lib from samsung 2012-11-12 16:17 or free lib 2012-11-12 16:17 they all use the same interface 2012-11-12 16:17 zrafa, I also wonder what's the best way to run GNU/Linux programs on some android devices 2012-11-12 16:18 I've looked to it a bit: 2012-11-12 16:18 startkde fails in the android Xorg application (android doens't use xorg but that apps implement xorg on top of the android display thing) 2012-11-12 16:19 I'll try with vnc soon 2012-11-12 16:24 GNUtoo-desktop: from your knowledge it seems that the best way to try that is to know if the phone+android there is mostly a linux kernel standar 2012-11-12 16:24 I am trying to install the latest image onto my sd card and have not had success... 2012-11-12 16:25 Te .ubi file lives in "/" right? 2012-11-12 16:26 are 1 or two partions needed? 1 for uImage and 1 for / 2012-11-12 16:26 Te= the 2012-11-12 16:29 Jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 16:32 zrafa, yes 2012-11-12 16:32 you have 2 SOCs that are good enough: 2012-11-12 16:32 The samsung ones (exynos etc...) 2012-11-12 16:32 The TI ones (like omap4 for galaxy nexus) 2012-11-12 16:33 the 2 phones I know are : 2012-11-12 16:33 Galaxy Nexu 2012-11-12 16:33 *Galaxy Nexus 2012-11-12 16:33 and the Nexus S 2012-11-12 16:33 I guess that the rest of the samsung phones are pretty similar(galaxy S for instance is similar to the Nexus S) 2012-11-12 16:33 but beware with the audio of galaxy SII 2012-11-12 16:34 it's a yamaha CODEC with an driver that is too hard to be understood 2012-11-12 16:35 pcercuei has quit [Quit: brb] 2012-11-12 16:36 GNUtoo-desktop: thanks a lot for all the information man 2012-11-12 16:37 np 2012-11-12 16:37 and now we have the qi hw irc archive logs for future reference ;) 2012-11-12 16:38 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 16:40 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 16:48 anything nexus is also a good choice if you're staying within the android world 2012-11-12 16:49 so it's good that this overlaps also with real freedom :) 2012-11-12 16:57 wpwrak: one example of some "anything nexus"? 2012-11-12 16:58 wpwrak: i do not know mucho about nexus devices 2012-11-12 16:58 mucho=much 2012-11-12 17:06 wpwrak, no 2012-11-12 17:06 Nexus 4 is not good 2012-11-12 17:06 Nexus one is also not good 2012-11-12 17:47 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2012-11-12 18:17 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 2012-11-12 18:20 lekernel has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 2012-11-12 18:22 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-11-12 18:28 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 18:44 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 18:46 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 18:48 does the order of the partitions really matter? 2012-11-12 18:52 LunaVorax has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-11-12 18:52 I guess the problem is I need to update uboot due to my 32gb sd card 2012-11-12 18:53 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-11-12 18:55 risks of bricking my NN by upgrading uboot? 2012-11-12 18:59 none 2012-11-12 18:59 it has the 'usbboot' mode 2012-11-12 19:03 thank you. 2012-11-12 19:13 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 19:20 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 19:54 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-11-12 20:24 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-12 20:29 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 20:34 GNUtoo-desktop: do you know if the android interface changes from time to time (between versions for example). 2012-11-12 20:34 yes I know 2012-11-12 20:34 it does 2012-11-12 20:34 shit 2012-11-12 20:35 so if we would have some driver in userspace which "knows" how the android interface works, and then can talk with binary drivers. Then I was thinking that we could have something like this : 2012-11-12 20:35 - native linux application (for example, an alsa program to play sounds) 2012-11-12 20:36 - userspace driver which shows an alsa API to the alsa applications. And also knows the android sound interface to talk with binary or not sound driverrs. 2012-11-12 20:37 - binary or free driver for the audio (in userspace or not. It would be the current driver hard to replace/remove). 2012-11-12 20:37 - kernel 2012-11-12 20:37 - hw 2012-11-12 20:37 GNUtoo-desktop: But, if the android api changes then this idea is just useful for an specific android version :P 2012-11-12 20:38 that already exist 2012-11-12 20:38 libphysis or something like taht 2012-11-12 20:39 it's made by a meego person 2012-11-12 20:41 GNUtoo-desktop: I do not find info about.. what is that? some middle driver? 2012-11-12 20:41 I don't know 2012-11-12 20:41 I never had to do with it 2012-11-12 20:43 I don't find it 2012-11-12 20:43 ask morphis 2012-11-12 20:43 he knows about it 2012-11-12 20:46 https://github.com/morphis/libhybris 2012-11-12 20:46 found it 2012-11-12 20:46 which is forked from: 2012-11-12 20:46 https://github.com/stskeeps/libhybris 2012-11-12 20:47 GNUtoo-desktop: I didn't say the overlap was complete :) i'm already happy that nexus && freedom_friendly doesn't yield the empty set :) 2012-11-12 20:49 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 20:51 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-11-12 21:20 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-11-12 21:41 GNUtoo has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 21:53 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-11-12 22:05 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 22:12 erikkugel has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-11-12 22:13 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 22:19 GNUtoo has quit [Quit: Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.] 2012-11-12 22:19 On http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Uboot what’s the difference between the 2 methods? 2012-11-12 22:22 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-11-12 22:34 not sure if xbboot is actively supported anymore 2012-11-12 22:34 the difference would be that it's two ways (i.e., two different programs) to accomplish the same. so if you run into troubles with one, you can try the other 2012-11-12 22:42 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 22:44 thanks and do I need to reflash my nn nand afterwards? I wouldn't have thought so but the wording of the article makes me think again. 2012-11-12 22:48 I also have 2 goodies for I have put together. They are just under 200lines but could reach 200lines long if some features are added. I guess they don't deserve to be copyrighted(GPL)? 2012-11-12 22:49 s/for I/, I/ 2012-11-12 22:49 arossDOTme meant: "I also have 2 goodies , I have put together. They are just under 200lines but could reach 200lines long if some features are added. I guess they don't deserve to be copyrighted(GPL)?" 2012-11-12 22:49 qi-bot: help 2012-11-12 22:50 wpwrak: another qi-bot2 to talk with qi-bot could help with statistics as well :) 2012-11-12 22:51 lol 2012-11-12 22:55 zrafa: i'm sure DocScrutinizer would be more than happy to help with that ;-) 2012-11-12 22:56 zrafa: in fact, i have infobot on ignore because of his monologues with the bot. hmm. just noticed that the bot is no longer around. good :) 2012-11-12 22:57 arossDOTme: i'd say you don't need to reflash all the NAND if you just upgrade u-boot. i'd still make sure there's nothing overly valuable to be lost if something goes wrong, though. 2012-11-12 22:58 (copyright) copyright applies even for ridiculously small items. if you don't specify a license, the default assumption is that no copying, modification, etc., is allowed. 2012-11-12 23:00 well i mean i would make it public domain 2012-11-12 23:01 its just on the fsf or gnu web they say 200lines 2012-11-12 23:03 one of goodies consists of 10 line .sh's and a big config file and very small config files. 2012-11-12 23:03 oh, pick whatever license suits your intentions. it's your intentions that matter :) 2012-11-12 23:04 my thinking was one somthing small does it end up being like a patent in a way. 2012-11-12 23:04 ? 2012-11-12 23:04 but then 2012-11-12 23:04 :/ 2012-11-12 23:13 gpl then 2012-11-12 23:20 mth has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-11-12 23:20 woakas has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-11-12 23:20 uwe_ has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-11-12 23:22 urandom__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-11-12 23:23 hmm? 2012-11-12 23:25 DocScrutinizer05: we were talking about bots. and you like bots :-) 2012-11-12 23:25 :shrug: 2012-11-12 23:28 arossDOTme: copyright != patent. and yes, there is plenty of evidence that even the most trivial things can be (and are) patented. 2012-11-12 23:29 mth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 23:29 uwe_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 23:29 woakas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 23:29 I like the database supporting my memory, since I'd not keep in mind each friggin URL and whatnot 2012-11-12 23:30 not to mention typing it 2012-11-12 23:30 I know copyright != patent. I ment in a wield way but the "but then" line was me doubting/negativing that thought. 2012-11-12 23:30 here's no infobot anymore, so the topic is moot 2012-11-12 23:31 o/ 2012-11-12 23:40 pcercuei has quit [Quit: brb] 2012-11-12 23:41 on the website how do I add an project? 2012-11-12 23:42 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-11-12 23:44 arossDOTme: according to http://techlogon.com/2011/11/15/how-many-websites-are-there-in-the-world/ there are some 620 million Web sites in the world. perhaps you may wish to be more specific :) 2012-11-12 23:45 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/dashboard/ 2012-11-12 23:46 what a surprise, he meant qi website 2012-11-12 23:46 aah ! :) 2012-11-12 23:46 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, i suspected that it may be qi (though some projects in the qi universe also use github). but even there, it could be the wiki and not the projects server. 2012-11-12 23:47 then your quote about those 620 million helped how? 2012-11-12 23:48 its fine 2012-11-12 23:48 "github, wiki, or projects server" anyway would've been a shorter comment 2012-11-12 23:48 upgrading uboot fixed it yea! 2012-11-12 23:49 arossDOTme: can you reach this one ? http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/admin/projects/create/ 2012-11-12 23:49 oh pyclock.. don't seam to work 2012-11-12 23:49 403 2012-11-12 23:49 s/403/wpwrak: 403/ 2012-11-12 23:49 arossDOTme meant: "wpwrak: 403" 2012-11-12 23:50 DocScrutinizer05: you should know me better ;-) 2012-11-12 23:50 sorry, lost my sense of humor sometime during fighting trolls today 2012-11-12 23:51 (403 hmm. let's see ... 2012-11-12 23:51 pyclock does not like being run from them menu 2012-11-12 23:54 hmm, i don't see a way to create projects. odd. i though one could at least request them. 2012-11-12 23:55 arossDOTme: which brings us to the fallback option: ask someone with suitable permissions to do it. luckily, i happen to have those :) 2012-11-12 23:56 i would need the project name and the "shortname" 2012-11-12 23:56 examples for "names" are, on http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/, the text on the links 2012-11-12 23:57 the "shortnames" would be the last element these links point to 2012-11-12 23:57 e.g., "Antorcha" / "antorcha" or "IEEE 802.15.4 subsystem" / "ben-wpan" 2012-11-12 23:58 the syntax rule for the "shortname" is "It must be unique for each project and composed only of letters, digits and dash (-) like "my-project"." 2012-11-12 23:58 oh great :D right then one name Decent CL Countdown (decentclcountdown) and Mplayer OSD Menu (mp-osd-menu) 2012-11-12 23:58 wpwrak: hang on 2012-11-12 23:59 and i'll need your account name 2012-11-12 23:59 ah, aross i presume 2012-11-12 23:59 s/Decent CL Countdown/NN Decent CL Countdown maybe/ 2012-11-12 23:59 yep