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2012-11-06 08:13 <xiangfu> how can I count the vias in KiCAD?
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2012-11-06 11:48 <wpwrak> xiangfu: in pcbnew, File > Fabrication Outputs > Drill (.drl) File. The dialog that comes up has the number of vias. (Then just cancel.)
2012-11-06 11:50 <wpwrak> hmm, does IRC have a "send when user returns" feature ? would seem useful when communicating with those who are not "always on", particularly when timeshifted
2012-11-06 11:51 <viric> nickserv has a mailbox
2012-11-06 11:51 <viric> when the nick identifies, gets notified of messages there
2012-11-06 11:52 <viric> hm maybe it's not nickserv, but another freenode bot
2012-11-06 11:53 <larsc> wpwrak: that's called email ;)
2012-11-06 11:53 <wpwrak> bah, that's so pre-social media
2012-11-06 11:54 <viric> wpwrak: it's memoserv.    /msg memoserv help
2012-11-06 11:54 <larsc> wpwrak: twitter should work fine as well
2012-11-06 11:55 <wpwrak> viric: thanks ! let's see if it works :)
2012-11-06 11:56 <viric> memoserv is both the past and the future!
2012-11-06 11:56 <wpwrak> larsc: hmm, or maybe open a linkedin account, invite the recipient, and let linkedin flood him with nag mails
2012-11-06 11:56 <wpwrak> viric: so you say xiangfu will have read the message i just sent now before he left some time ago ?
2012-11-06 11:57 <viric> eh?
2012-11-06 11:58 <viric> I can't decode your message
2012-11-06 11:59 <larsc> timetravel
2012-11-06 11:59 <wpwrak> that was a reference to the past. ... yup :)
2012-11-06 11:59 <wpwrak> send message now, memoserv delivers it before it was sent.
2012-11-06 12:00 <wpwrak> viric: kewl, works :)
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2012-11-06 12:04 <viric> amazing technology
2012-11-06 12:10 <wpwrak> these fancy new "electronic brains" are quite something, eh ? maybe one day, they'll even play chess
2012-11-06 12:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: poke/: move over from svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/poke/ (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/355614b
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2012-11-06 13:23 <paul_boddie> Oh dear: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20219292 ("Imagination challenges ARM with Mips takeover")
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2012-11-06 13:31 <wpwrak> that may be good. other soc makers may be unwilling to license powervr if imagination are competing in the soc market.
2012-11-06 13:32 <paul_boddie> Knowing Imagination and their highly proprietary PowerVR stuff, this probably means that they want MIPS vendors to saddle their products with it.
2012-11-06 13:32 <wpwrak> xiangfu: you may have news from MemoServ ;-)
2012-11-06 13:32 <paul_boddie> Obviously Intel, AMD and ARM have dumped Imagination, so they're effectively a patent troll in waiting.
2012-11-06 13:33 <wpwrak> if you see a patent, the trolls usually aren't far ...
2012-11-06 13:35 <paul_boddie> Actually, AMD probably never used them, but now that AMD will also produce ARM-based products, it's almost reassuring that ARM seem to have dumped PowerVR. Then again, ARM aren't completely trustworthy.
2012-11-06 13:37 <wpwrak> from what i've heard, mali is somewhat open. not sure if that's thanks to ARM or thanks to good reverse engineers, though.
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2012-11-06 13:40 <xiangfu> wpwrak, [File > Fabrication Outputs > Drill (.drl) File.] thanks. I got 577 vias.
2012-11-06 13:41 <xiangfu> wpwrak, how do I know if them are blind vias or buried vias?
2012-11-06 13:43 <xiangfu> wpwrak, do you remember, once you talking about 'azonenberg' fpga PCB board. that something is not easy for command pcb fab?
2012-11-06 13:43 <xiangfu> something on azonenberg's board.
2012-11-06 13:44 <xiangfu> I have 2 azonenberg board kicad files here. one is 'minimal-spartan6-tq144 2 layers board', another one is xc6slx9 ftg256 4 layers board.
2012-11-06 13:49 <paul_boddie> What was the word on OpenRISC, by the way? I may go to a talk about that soon, and it'd be interesting to hear what people think of it in advance.
2012-11-06 13:54 <wpwrak> xiangfu: in general, you should try to avoid fancy vias. the best are through vias. then blind. buried are worst.
2012-11-06 13:55 <wpwrak> xiangfu: kicad doesn't seem to distinguish blind and buried in its statistics
2012-11-06 13:56 <xiangfu> wpwrak, ok. got it. I saw those fancy vias cost more money in PCB fab. :-)
2012-11-06 13:56 <wpwrak> xiangfu: azonenberg designs his boards to the capabilities of his pcb house. so you have to be a bit careful with his designs. they may be more demanding than necessary for a given design.
2012-11-06 13:57 <wpwrak> fancy vias also restrict your choice of fabs. and they're harder to debug if anything goes wrong.
2012-11-06 13:58 <wpwrak> s/for a given design/for a given circuit/
2012-11-06 13:59 <xiangfu> wpwrak, what is the special design?
2012-11-06 14:02 <wpwrak> what i mean is that he does some things in ways that complicate producing a board. that may include difficult via types or very narrow mechanical tolerances.
2012-11-06 14:02 * paul_boddie is looking at http://opencores.org/or1k/Ordb2a-ep4ce22
2012-11-06 14:03 <xiangfu> wpwrak, also there is a 'Impedance Control' like 10% or 5%. is that very important for 4 layer board?
2012-11-06 14:03 <wpwrak> i do the other extreme :) my boards are generally meant for DIY, so all vias are very simple, there's a lot of mechanical tolerance, etc.
2012-11-06 14:03 <wpwrak> depends on whether you have signals that need to be impedance matched :)
2012-11-06 14:04 <wpwrak> things like RF or other high-speed signals
2012-11-06 14:05 <xiangfu> wpwrak, (impedance matched) ok. what is the Impedance control on m1 board? do you know that?
2012-11-06 14:06 <wpwrak> not sure if any impedance constraints were specified for M1. most of the signals there are slow. you'd have to ask adam.
2012-11-06 14:06 <xiangfu> ok. then I think I also don't need that at all. :-)
2012-11-06 14:07 <wpwrak> with your little FPGA board ? no, i hope not ;-)
2012-11-06 14:07 <xiangfu> wpwrak, last question. how do I know the 'Min Annular Ring' on KiCAD?
2012-11-06 14:07 <xiangfu> every vias cost money. :(
2012-11-06 14:09 <xiangfu> about the Thickness (Finished Board), most common 2 or 4 layer board is 1.6mm. right?
2012-11-06 14:09 <xiangfu> some RF board may need 0.8 or 1mm PCB board.
2012-11-06 14:09 <wpwrak> (annular ring) that's a question from your pcb fab ? it would be either the outer diameter of vias or the difference between inner and outer diameter. not sure which.
2012-11-06 14:10 <wpwrak> 1.6 mm is very common, yes. for small boards, you can also pick thinner pcbs. but 1.6 mm is a good default choice.
2012-11-06 14:10 <xiangfu> wpwrak, this is the board full detail asked by PCB fab: http://pastebin.com/BNPK0vXu
2012-11-06 14:13 <wpwrak> they could get some of the parameters simply by processing your files ...
2012-11-06 14:13 <wpwrak> i guess they're lazy :)
2012-11-06 14:14 <xiangfu> yes. good thing is I learned something on those questions. :-)
2012-11-06 14:16 <xiangfu> also for calculate the order price before I send the Gerber files
2012-11-06 14:17 * paul_boddie notes fairly recent slides, video, audio about OpenRISC at http://opencores.org/or1k/OpenRISC_Project_Meeting
2012-11-06 14:18 <wpwrak> your vias seem a bit odd. the drill is quite large (0.3 mm / 12 mil) but the ring is narrow (only 0.1 mm)
2012-11-06 14:19 <wpwrak> i would make the hole a bit smaller (e.g., 0.25 mm / 10 mil). maybe also grow the ring a bit, in case you want to make DIY board from these parameters.
2012-11-06 14:28 <xiangfu> hmm...
2012-11-06 14:28 <xiangfu> in kicad. the Via shows: Diam: 0.551mm, Drill 0.330mm.
2012-11-06 14:29 <xiangfu> is that means ring is 0.22mm
2012-11-06 14:29 <xiangfu> 0.221mm
2012-11-06 14:31 <wpwrak> 0.22m / 2 for the ring width
2012-11-06 14:31 <xiangfu> oh. yes. 0.22 / 2
2012-11-06 14:38 <xiangfu> thanks wpwrak. I think I understand all those PCB Specification now. :)
2012-11-06 14:40 <wpwrak> kewl :) good luck with the board !
2012-11-06 15:06 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ioscript/: script-based toggling of IO pins (for device testing) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/025726e
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2012-11-06 16:33 <wpwrak> cool. i made a line with led so bright that i still have afterimages about a minute after looking at them ;-)
2012-11-06 16:46 <larsc> not cool...
2012-11-06 16:46 <larsc> ;)
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2012-11-06 16:57 <wpwrak> and was only at about a third of the maximum brightness :)
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2012-11-06 20:04 <whitequark> wpwrak: it should be quite hot actually
2012-11-06 20:06 <wpwrak> the board gets a little warm indeed
2012-11-06 20:07 <whitequark> as per afterimages
2012-11-06 20:07 <whitequark> once I tried to make a photo of myself with my smartphone
2012-11-06 20:07 <whitequark> and due to lightning conditions in the room, I had to do it with flash
2012-11-06 20:07 <whitequark> well
2012-11-06 20:07 <whitequark> it was quite literally painful
2012-11-06 20:08 <whitequark> and I wasn't able to open my eyes for at least 30 seconds after clicking the button
2012-11-06 20:08 <whitequark> I think that flash can be used as a weapon
2012-11-06 20:09 <whitequark> you can lit up a medium-sized room with it well enough to comfortably read 12-15pt text
2012-11-06 20:09 <whitequark> *light
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2012-11-06 20:12 <viric> are LED flash common?
2012-11-06 20:13 <whitequark> viric: almost any modern smartphone has one
2012-11-06 20:13 <whitequark> through not every one of these is as powerful of mine
2012-11-06 20:13 <viric> ok
2012-11-06 20:13 <whitequark> I think that samsung went a bit overboard
2012-11-06 20:13 <viric> do they use high voltage?
2012-11-06 20:13 <whitequark> fsvo high
2012-11-06 20:13 <whitequark> I think that the led is actually a compound one, with 4 or maybe 6-8 dies
2012-11-06 20:14 <whitequark> from what I know about bright LEDs
2012-11-06 20:14 <whitequark> they're connected sequentally, hence you'd need voltages in range of 10-20V to power it
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