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2012-10-28 01:22 <kristianpaul> DocScrutinizer05: Have you fixed your n900 for mic (people dont hear your) problems?
2012-10-28 01:22 <kristianpaul> Hi btw :_)
2012-10-28 01:22 <DocScrutinizer05> kristianpaul: I never knew I had those problems
2012-10-28 01:23 <kristianpaul> hmm
2012-10-28 01:24 <kristianpaul> but you heard of it perhaps?
2012-10-28 01:24 <kristianpaul> from googling seems to be a know issue
2012-10-28 01:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard of some allegedly hw defects triggered by hmmmm maybe early FM-radio app implementations, on maemo
2012-10-28 01:25 <DocScrutinizer05> some 2 or 3 years ago
2012-10-28 01:25 <kristianpaul> hmm? and an app can damage hw or just a soft issue?
2012-10-28 01:25 <kristianpaul> dont get it..
2012-10-28 01:25 <DocScrutinizer05> me neither
2012-10-28 01:25 <kristianpaul> xD
2012-10-28 01:26 <DocScrutinizer05> there've been like 2 or 3 reports of mic ceasing to work, and allegedly(!) a full reflash wasn't able to cure the problem
2012-10-28 01:26 <DocScrutinizer05> but maybe PEBKAC
2012-10-28 01:27 <kristianpaul> hope so :)
2012-10-28 01:27 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway those guys sent in their devices and got them back "repaired" - nobody knows what Nokia Care did, maybe they simply did proper reset/reflash
2012-10-28 01:28 <kristianpaul> lol
2012-10-28 01:28 <DocScrutinizer05> from schematics I have a hard time figuring how to kill mic and related circuitry on a hw level
2012-10-28 01:29 <kristianpaul> the wires are hard to access? or?
2012-10-28 01:29 <DocScrutinizer05> wires?
2012-10-28 01:29 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc the mics are SMT and digital
2012-10-28 01:29 <kristianpaul> s/wires/pcb routes/s
2012-10-28 01:29 <qi-bot> kristianpaul meant: "the pcb routes are hard to access? or?"
2012-10-28 01:30 <kristianpaul> sorry sorry yes
2012-10-28 01:30 <kristianpaul> digital..
2012-10-28 01:30 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
2012-10-28 01:30 <DocScrutinizer05> mompls, I check back
2012-10-28 01:30 <kristianpaul> now i see more senss for the  PEBKAC
2012-10-28 01:30 <kristianpaul> sure
2012-10-28 01:32 <DocScrutinizer05> B4030 "Digital Microphone"
2012-10-28 01:32 <DocScrutinizer05> VDD, CLK, DATA, GND
2012-10-28 01:33 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe they fried the DATA output of the mic by programming GPIO1_A of codec to output?
2012-10-28 01:34 <kristianpaul> erghh
2012-10-28 01:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't see any other way to fry mic
2012-10-28 01:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and I doubt this way would actually work
2012-10-28 01:35 <DocScrutinizer05> ooops sorry, GPIO2_A
2012-10-28 01:36 <DocScrutinizer05> GPIO1_A is mic's CLOCK, via 100R, so unlikely to do any harm, no matter what you'd do to that GPIO
2012-10-28 01:36 <kristianpaul> ah yes clk is is 01
2012-10-28 01:37 <DocScrutinizer05> DATA <-  [L4032,120R] -> GPIO2_A
2012-10-28 01:37 <DocScrutinizer05> so I gather the 120R are at 100MHz, according to writing on that bead
2012-10-28 01:38 <DocScrutinizer05> DATA <-  [L4032; 120R/100MHz] -> GPIO2_A   - actually
2012-10-28 01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, I doubt there's any hw problem re N900 internal mic
2012-10-28 01:40 <kristianpaul> okay
2012-10-28 01:41 <kristianpaul> what about microsd any know issues on your side?
2012-10-28 01:41 <DocScrutinizer05> uSD? no known issues either
2012-10-28 01:42 <kristianpaul> okay
2012-10-28 01:42 * kristianpaul click buy?
2012-10-28 01:42 <DocScrutinizer05> except for some kerneldriver fix for a particular transcend(?) card that might get permanently damaged otherwise
2012-10-28 01:43 <kristianpaul> urghh?...
2012-10-28 01:43 <kristianpaul> ha
2012-10-28 01:43 <kristianpaul> i tought the kernel damaging intel e1000 cards was the top...
2012-10-28 01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> well, one single build of a card
2012-10-28 01:43 <kristianpaul> the same i heard for the intel nic...
2012-10-28 01:44 <DocScrutinizer05> and that's a linuxwide bug fixed by TI or Intel
2012-10-28 01:44 <kristianpaul> yes sure
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2012-10-28 01:44 <DocScrutinizer05> you'd need powerkernel to get the fix, I guess
2012-10-28 01:45 <DocScrutinizer05> not sure if Pali included it or not
2012-10-28 01:45 <DocScrutinizer05> or you run your own bleeding edge kernel anyway, dunno what you plan to do
2012-10-28 01:46 <kristianpaul> i just sat the offer
2012-10-28 01:46 <kristianpaul> saw*
2012-10-28 01:46 <DocScrutinizer05> which offer?
2012-10-28 01:46 <kristianpaul> i will run maemo for sure (if i decide buy)
2012-10-28 01:47 <kristianpaul> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nokia-N-Series-N900-32GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/281010907326?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item416d8e28be
2012-10-28 01:47 <DocScrutinizer05> if you're about to buy used N900, take care, there are several with overclocking damage or semi-broken USB receptacle
2012-10-28 01:48 <kristianpaul> hmm
2012-10-28 01:48 <kristianpaul> just used avalible
2012-10-28 01:48 <kristianpaul> and i dont feel confident buying a newer cooler phone..
2012-10-28 01:49 <kristianpaul> overclocking :-)
2012-10-28 01:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think this is a good buy
2012-10-28 01:49 <kristianpaul> me either.. ;)
2012-10-28 01:49 <kristianpaul> i havent clicked
2012-10-28 01:50 <kristianpaul> but
2012-10-28 01:50 <kristianpaul> again my fever for a phone that run linux (not droid) begun...
2012-10-28 01:50 <DocScrutinizer05> there are used ones in supposedly "like new" condition available for ~100EUR, and really new ones for ~180
2012-10-28 01:51 <kristianpaul> 100 eur still aceptable to me
2012-10-28 01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll keep your demand in mind, maybe I can get another two nice phones eventually. My 4 feel a little lonely ;-D
2012-10-28 01:54 <kristianpaul> haha
2012-10-28 01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> but I actually don't like to buy used ones, since you never know what previous user did to them
2012-10-28 01:55 <kristianpaul> but new ones are still avaliable or those to claim to be new really are?
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2012-10-28 01:56 <DocScrutinizer05> last 2 ones I bought were new w/o original package w/o accessories other than fastcharger. ~240EUR per device
2012-10-28 01:56 <kristianpaul> hum hum
2012-10-28 01:56 <DocScrutinizer05> the hongkong source is shite, those are actually refurbished ones
2012-10-28 01:57 <DocScrutinizer05> here in Germany I see offers from BlueFon every now and then, 180..250EUR
2012-10-28 01:57 <kristianpaul> still hard to believe you can buy a 2009 phone as "new", if not refurbished
2012-10-28 01:57 <DocScrutinizer05> well, those are display devices etc
2012-10-28 01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess
2012-10-28 01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway they had no traces of usage, and they come with usual warranty
2012-10-28 01:59 <kristianpaul> ah good
2012-10-28 01:59 <DocScrutinizer05> though that might help little, when you can't get a replacement in 5 months, if yours actually breaks
2012-10-28 01:59 <kristianpaul> ;)
2012-10-28 02:00 <kristianpaul> traces, my laptop saids when was first poweron :)
2012-10-28 02:01 <kristianpaul> oh well
2012-10-28 02:06 <DocScrutinizer05> http://compare.ebay.de/like/190744280028?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar  no recommendations, just for reference
2012-10-28 02:06 <DocScrutinizer05> "neu" = new, "wie neu" = almost new
2012-10-28 02:07 <DocScrutinizer05> "gebraucht" = used
2012-10-28 02:08 * kristianpaul blind mode again
2012-10-28 02:08 <kristianpaul> but thanks !
2012-10-28 02:08 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Neu-Nokia-N900-32GB-5MP-GSM-ENTSPERRT-UNLOCKED-Ohne-Simlock-EXPRESS-VERSAND-/251174319027?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BP%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BIIUM%26otn%3D9%26pmod%3D190744280028%26ps%3D54 is fake, I heard
2012-10-28 02:09 <DocScrutinizer05> Hongkong
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2012-10-28 02:09 <kristianpaul> fake, urghhh
2012-10-28 02:10 <DocScrutinizer05> though they claim "new, unused, in unopened original package"
2012-10-28 02:11 <DocScrutinizer05> if that's the truth, it would be a good buy
2012-10-28 02:11 <DocScrutinizer05> if it's not true, you could send it back - haha
2012-10-28 02:11 <kristianpaul> ha
2012-10-28 02:38 <DocScrutinizer05> kristianpaul: well, this "Hongkong" offer is actually a seller from Israel with a lot of nasty negative ratings, all about "goods actually not new"
2012-10-28 02:40 <kristianpaul> ...... :-|
2012-10-28 02:42 <DocScrutinizer05> I suggest you check ebay for ~2 weeks, I'm rather confident something decent will show up
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2012-10-28 10:09 <LunaVorax> Hey!
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2012-10-28 11:41 <xiangfu> kyak, Hi.
2012-10-28 11:41 <xiangfu> kyak, I have tried linux-3.6.0 + xburst-tools. it works fine here. what is your libusb version? (`libusb-config --version` give me : 0.1.12)
2012-10-28 11:46 <kyak> xiangfu: hi
2012-10-28 11:46 <kyak> 0.1.12 here as well
2012-10-28 11:46 <kyak> but it's definitely kernel
2012-10-28 11:47 <kyak> mine is 3.6.3
2012-10-28 11:47 <kyak> i skipped 3.6.0
2012-10-28 11:47 <kyak> the previous working one was 3.5.6
2012-10-28 11:49 <kyak> i;m using xburst-tools version 201206 it that matters
2012-10-28 11:49 <kyak> though usbboot --version says 201104
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2012-10-28 12:33 <xiangfu> kyak, ok. I build both 3.6.0 and 3.7.0 (I am using the git source code). both work fine here. I am download 3.6.3 now.
2012-10-28 12:59 <xiangfu> reboot for test 3.6.3 + xburst-tools
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2012-10-28 13:03 <xiangfu> kyak: Hi. I am under linux-3.6.3 now.
2012-10-28 13:04 <xiangfu> linux-3.6.3 + xburst-tools works fine here. I have tried relfash bootloader and kernel to nanonote.
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2012-10-28 13:21 <kyak> xiangfu: damn -\ i'm glad it works for you, but i'm dissappointed that this is not reproducable
2012-10-28 13:21 <xiangfu> kyak, can you try run usbboot -c "boot;reset" now? paste the output somewhere.
2012-10-28 13:23 <kyak> http://dpaste.org/COPXH/
2012-10-28 13:23 <kyak> sometimes it errors out during stage1 though
2012-10-28 13:25 <kyak> like this: http://dpaste.org/553sm/
2012-10-28 13:30 <xiangfu> kyak, please try "wget http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/tmp/u-boot.bin && xbboot -u 0x80100000 u-boot.bin"
2012-10-28 13:32 <kyak> http://dpaste.org/Epuzj/
2012-10-28 13:32 <kyak> goes on like that endlessly
2012-10-28 13:33 <xiangfu> yes. until it found and upload file to nanonote. :)
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2012-10-28 13:34 <kyak> do you mean i shouldn't interrupt it?
2012-10-28 13:37 <xiangfu> we should interrupt it.
2012-10-28 13:39 <kyak> i let it run for a couple of minutes anyway :)
2012-10-28 13:41 <xiangfu> btw. you can start the xbboot first. then plug-in nanonote (usbboot mode). it will detect nanonote and upload files.
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2012-10-28 13:49 <xiangfu> kyak, in 'ingenic_usb.h' there is a USB_TIMEOUT. let's try to change it to '0'. see what happen.
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2012-10-28 14:06 <kyak> xiangfu: (start xbboot first) http://dpaste.org/U0BnE/
2012-10-28 14:06 <kyak> xiangfu: (USB_TIMEOUT) should i drop the usleep patch?
2012-10-28 14:07 <xiangfu> no needs.
2012-10-28 14:07 <kyak> after xbboot has uploaded the files, i can now use usbboot nprog?
2012-10-28 14:07 <xiangfu> (xbboot) is that boot your nanonote?
2012-10-28 14:07 <xiangfu> it should boot your nanonote to openwrt.
2012-10-28 14:08 <kyak> no
2012-10-28 14:08 <kyak> the screen is blank
2012-10-28 14:08 <kyak> the lsusb shows still XBurst Jz4740 boot mode
2012-10-28 14:08 <kyak> why would it be in openwrt?
2012-10-28 14:12 <xiangfu> xbboot -u 0x80100000 u-boot.bin: it upload the u-boot.bin to 0x80100000  and run it.
2012-10-28 14:12 <xiangfu> so it everything goes fine. it should boot kernel then goto openwrt.
2012-10-28 14:13 <xiangfu> if the screen is blank. mean the upload was failed.
2012-10-28 14:13 <kyak> then something went wrong... it was still left in usb boot mode
2012-10-28 14:15 <kyak> after changing USB_TIMEOUT to 0, it hangs forever when trying to upload
2012-10-28 14:15 <kyak>  Download stage 2 program and execute at 0x81c00000
2012-10-28 14:15 <kyak>  CPU data: JZ4740V1
2012-10-28 14:18 <kyak> fawk
2012-10-28 14:18 <kyak> kernel panic again
2012-10-28 14:18 <kyak> in xhci
2012-10-28 14:18 <kyak> it happens after i unplug and replug ben while it's in usb boot mode
2012-10-28 14:19 * panda|x201 downloading new 2012-10-24 image ...
2012-10-28 14:21 <kyak> nothing in system logs
2012-10-28 14:21 <xiangfu> hmm... kyak, should I try xhci? I use the /boot/config-3.2.0-24-generic for compile 3.6.3.
2012-10-28 14:21 <kyak> i guess i need to take a photo of my screen
2012-10-28 14:22 <kyak> xiangfu: probably you could try that
2012-10-28 14:22 <kyak> maybe xhci is a merge is uhci and ehci
2012-10-28 14:23 <kyak> but i don't know when this happened.. probably somewhere between 3.5.6 and 3.6.3 :)
2012-10-28 14:23 <kyak> xiangfu: i can give you my config. In fact, i'm just running a stock kernel in Arch linux
2012-10-28 14:27 <xiangfu> kyak, I will try xhci tomorrow. then let you know.
2012-10-28 14:28 <kyak> thanks!
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2012-10-28 14:35 <kristianpaul> kyak: do you still using the sd-wifi card?
2012-10-28 14:36 <kristianpaul> Hi there btw :)
2012-10-28 14:43 <whitequark> wolfspra1l: you here?
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2012-10-28 16:43 <kyak> kristianpaul: nope, and i never used it.. that is, never had success using it :)
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2012-10-28 16:49 <kristianpaul> he
2012-10-28 16:51 <whitequark> kyak: never had much problems
2012-10-28 16:52 <kyak> whitequark: yeah, i heard that from several people
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2012-10-28 16:53 <kyak> i wanted to try again with the latest image, but i'm kinda stuck because i can't flash Ben since i upgraded to 3.6
2012-10-28 16:54 <kyak> downgrading is too much trouble
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2012-10-28 19:33 <e2580> Anyone interested in a sneak peek at a hardware based security device we are about ready to release? www.CryptX2.com/demo
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2012-10-28 21:09 <wpwrak> e2580: web site suggests you're doing a number of things right :) "open source for personal use" is a bit lame, though
2012-10-28 21:09 <e2580> it is lame to not want other companies to mass produce and sell our work ?
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2012-10-28 21:10 <e2580> the only restriction we have is you cant sell and compete against us
2012-10-28 21:10 <e2580> which means in the USA
2012-10-28 21:10 <e2580> outside the usa, you can sell for profit as we cant export
2012-10-28 21:13 <wpwrak> inability to export sucks
2012-10-28 21:13 <wpwrak> what sort of magic chip did you use that got you into this ?
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2012-10-28 21:15 <wpwrak> s/did/do
2012-10-28 21:15 <qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "what sort of magic chip do you use that got you into this ?"
2012-10-28 21:22 <e2580> at32uc3a3256s
2012-10-28 21:22 <e2580> it has hardware crypto accelerator
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2012-10-28 21:43 <lindi-> e2580: "Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player."
2012-10-28 21:44 <e2580> video if flv, we havent posted other versions yet
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2012-10-28 21:48 <lindi-> e2580: is the licensing information somewhere on that site or only in the product itself?
2012-10-28 21:48 <e2580> license is not posted yet
2012-10-28 21:49 <e2580> it is fully open source, the only restriction is competing sales of the hardware within the USA
2012-10-28 21:49 <lindi-> e2580: if the license is not open source then I'd strongly urge you to not market it as open source
2012-10-28 21:49 <lindi-> e2580: hard to say anything about that without seeing the license first
2012-10-28 21:49 <lindi-> e2580: how do you define open source?
2012-10-28 21:50 <e2580> we post all source code, and allow changes, redistribution etc..
2012-10-28 21:50 <e2580> ie, open source
2012-10-28 21:50 <lindi-> e2580: but not selling in usa?
2012-10-28 21:51 <e2580> we dont allow sales of the device itself in the USA. you can make them for personal use
2012-10-28 21:51 <lindi-> e2580: "The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away" -- http://opensource.org/osd.html
2012-10-28 21:52 <e2580> that is for software
2012-10-28 21:53 <lindi-> e2580: ?
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2012-10-28 21:53 <lindi-> e2580: I thought we were talking about software here
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2012-10-28 21:55 <e2580> this is hardware
2012-10-28 21:55 <lindi-> e2580: I don't think we have a clear definition for open source hardware
2012-10-28 21:56 <e2580> have you seen the video ?
2012-10-28 21:56 <lindi-> e2580: how could I see it? it wants adobe flash player
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2012-10-28 21:56 <lindi-> e2580: I tried to tell you :)
2012-10-28 21:56 <e2580> anti adobe huh :)
2012-10-28 21:57 <lindi-> e2580: no, just pro open source
2012-10-28 21:57 <e2580> yes, me too, this was just for screening the sample video
2012-10-28 21:57 <lindi-> e2580: I do use some adobe stuff that is open source like flex
2012-10-28 21:58 <lindi-> e2580: but the flash player isn't
2012-10-28 21:59 <e2580> check the downloads page, that will explain a bit better what we will offer
2012-10-28 21:59 <e2580> literally everything
2012-10-28 22:00 <lindi-> e2580: I still can't see how you can call something open source and then not allow selling
2012-10-28 22:01 <e2580> there are different open source licenses
2012-10-28 22:01 <lindi-> e2580: can you give some concrete example?
2012-10-28 22:01 <e2580> all source code and files are available, you can make your own
2012-10-28 22:01 <lindi-> e2580: all open source licenses that I know allo selling
2012-10-28 22:02 <lindi-> e2580: open source does not only mean that source code is available, it means more than that
2012-10-28 22:02 <e2580> http://www.tapr.org/OHL
2012-10-28 22:03 <e2580> one of many different licenses
2012-10-28 22:04 <lindi-> e2580: but where does it say that it is an open source license?
2012-10-28 22:06 <e2580> several places on the page
2012-10-28 22:06 <lindi-> e2580: well it says it is similar to open source
2012-10-28 22:06 <e2580> the first line it says it
2012-10-28 22:07 <e2580> it says it is similar to the open source software license
2012-10-28 22:07 <lindi-> yeah similar
2012-10-28 22:07 <e2580> this is hardware, which is different
2012-10-28 22:07 <lindi-> yeah I don't think there is a clear definition on what "open hardware" means
2012-10-28 22:07 <e2580> no, there isnt
2012-10-28 22:07 <lindi-> thus it's confusing to use "open source" there since open source has a clear meaning
2012-10-28 22:07 <e2580> that is still a new area
2012-10-28 22:08 <e2580> the software is open source, as you expect it to be
2012-10-28 22:08 <lindi-> e2580: I hope so :)
2012-10-28 22:09 <e2580> we are just trying to prevent big industry from comoing in and making a ton of the devices and knocking us out of market
2012-10-28 22:09 <e2580> we dont care what individuals do
2012-10-28 22:09 <lindi-> if open hardware means that then I'll definition want to work on something else
2012-10-28 22:09 <e2580> the device is made to be modified
2012-10-28 22:09 <lindi-> s/definition/definitely/
2012-10-28 22:09 <qi-bot> lindi- meant: "if open hardware means that then I'll definitely want to work on something else"
2012-10-28 22:10 <roh> make it copyleft, but excluding business per se isnt compatible with 'opensource' from most definitions
2012-10-28 22:11 <roh> also it would kill all verticals, even the ones buying your hw
2012-10-28 22:12 <e2580> so what is your suggestion for securing we are able to get our investment back in the sales of the hardware and still keep it open source ?
2012-10-28 22:12 <roh> copyleft license
2012-10-28 22:12 <e2580> significant cost has gone into the development of this project
2012-10-28 22:12 <e2580> any links you suggest?
2012-10-28 22:13 <roh> look up copyleft
2012-10-28 22:13 <roh> you know the bsd vs gpl differences? most of that
2012-10-28 22:14 <roh> if someone can copy your hw and redo all the 'getting it produced' hoops and loops, and still make money, you didnt listen to your customers
2012-10-28 22:15 <roh> because you can sell cheaper than anybody who doesnt know the design and all its details
2012-10-28 22:15 <roh> making hardware is 20% concept, 20% design/development, 20%software and 40% production complications
2012-10-28 22:16 <roh> the latter 40% is what you dont release, since the data would only be valid for your process on your machines. thats what makes you money. because its your advantage in time to 'get things falling out of the production line'
2012-10-28 22:19 <e2580> we plan to release all files, so the gerber files for pcb, solder mask files, BOM, etc..
2012-10-28 22:19 <e2580> you can order pcbs, and parts and build them
2012-10-28 22:20 <e2580> even source files from altium will be provided
2012-10-28 22:20 <e2580> schematic, pcb layout files etc..
2012-10-28 22:20 <e2580> for editing
2012-10-28 22:21 <e2580> our other option is to hold these hardware files until we recoup our investment, then release them
2012-10-28 22:21 <e2580> or change the license after we hit profit
2012-10-28 22:22 <e2580> open it at that point
2012-10-28 22:22 <roh> sure. if you dont have anybody elses code in there...
2012-10-28 22:22 <e2580> not for hardware
2012-10-28 22:23 <e2580> we are open to ideas and suggestions on this
2012-10-28 22:26 <roh> well.. i am not your target group, so maybe i am the wrong one to ask ;) but i'd advice to sell worldwide.
2012-10-28 22:26 <e2580> we cant
2012-10-28 22:26 <roh> no reason to make hw and not sell it. make it in china and sell it directly to europe or via some european importer if us exports are worrysome.
2012-10-28 22:26 <e2580> export laws on crypto
2012-10-28 22:26 <roh> pfff.
2012-10-28 22:27 <roh> your phone pbx are chinese code already... dont worry *veg*
2012-10-28 22:27 <e2580> well, if you want to make and sell outside the US, let me know
2012-10-28 22:28 <e2580> we will sell pcb to anyone
2012-10-28 22:28 <roh> e2580: you want to make and source everything in the us?
2012-10-28 22:28 <e2580> and we will sell device with no MCU on it
2012-10-28 22:28 <e2580> no, i work with people all over the world to make this project
2012-10-28 22:29 <roh> whow.. expensive chip
2012-10-28 22:29 <e2580> its not that i have issues it, there is export laws we have to abide by
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2012-10-28 22:30 <roh> e2580: and that means 'you need to loose money'?
2012-10-28 22:31 <roh> is this the right controller? http://www.watterott.com/de/Atmel-UC3-A3-Xplained-AT32UC3A3-XPLD
2012-10-28 22:31 <roh> AT32UC3A3256
2012-10-28 22:31 <roh> or is the 's' important?
2012-10-28 22:32 <e2580> AT32UC3A3256S
2012-10-28 22:32 <e2580> yes, s means it has the crypto accelerator
2012-10-28 22:33 <e2580> evk1104s is the devkit
2012-10-28 22:35 <roh> hmm., can't order the chips without export declaration paperwork
2012-10-28 22:35 <roh> so its the same if you solder it and your customers fill out paperwork or if they solder themselves.. paperwork anyhow
2012-10-28 22:37 <e2580> order from someplace else
2012-10-28 22:37 <e2580> thats not the only supplier
2012-10-28 22:37 <roh> all sources i find with an s inside europe are us companies
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2012-10-28 22:50 <qi-bot> The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20121027-1510
2012-10-28 23:14 <wpwrak> perhaps the best way to circumvent the export restrictions on the chip is to manufacture abroad. e.g., china probably doesn't care about such things :)
2012-10-28 23:15 <wpwrak> roh: the cost calculation between original maker and copycat is different: the original maker also tries to recover the initial R&D investment. the copycat doesn't have that issue and can therefore be profitable on lower margins.
2012-10-28 23:17 <wpwrak> e2580: you'd probably be fine just gpl/cc-by-sa/etc.-ing it. the rock-bottom copycats won't care about your license anyway, but they may also be too busy cloning some big brand name stuff to even notice you.
2012-10-28 23:19 <wpwrak> e2580: the "big but still reasonably nice guys" tend to fear gpl-type licenses, so it would take forever for a clone to clear their legal department. besides, they'd want to do their own branding and so on.
2012-10-28 23:20 <wpwrak> e2580: that leaves the small and nice guys who have high overhead and who'd probably have a hard time competing with your volume production.
2012-10-28 23:23 <wpwrak> besides, you have a headstart with your brand name. as long as people associate it with quality, they may not trust the copycats. security is a good place to play on customer paranoia ;-)
2012-10-28 23:25 <e2580> not really trying to sell paranoia
2012-10-28 23:25 <e2580> enough security devices do that
2012-10-28 23:25 <e2580> we wanted to provide an actual solution
2012-10-28 23:27 <e2580> we have no interest in directly selling outside the US, actually if a reliable distributor outside the US wants to work a deal, we may consider listing them in our website for official non US sales
2012-10-28 23:27 <wpwrak> oh, you don't need to sell paranoia. but you can still be quite certain that it's out there ;-)
2012-10-28 23:28 <wpwrak> besides, anyone who cares enough about security to buy your device is unlikely to be the blissfully unconcerned and blindly trusting type
2012-10-28 23:28 <e2580> its only paranoia until someone trys to attack you
2012-10-28 23:29 <wpwrak> why limit yourself to the US ? it's a big world out there ...
2012-10-28 23:29 <wolfspra1l> wpwrak: yes here, good morning. what's up?
2012-10-28 23:30 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2012-10-28 23:30 <wpwrak> wolfspra1l: wrong w* ;-) whitequark was looking for you
2012-10-28 23:33 <wolfspra1l> oh
2012-10-28 23:33 <wolfspra1l> no coffee yet
2012-10-28 23:34 <wpwrak> e2580: of course, having international distributors is always good, also to limit shipping costs, customs hassles, local crypto regulations, and so on
2012-10-28 23:43 <wpwrak> hmm ... does anyone know whether FR4 (the pcb material, without copper or any other coating/treatment) is food-safe ? i just figured that i could mill a nice garlic-peeling device, but i need one or two boards of material that can resist mild acids. alas, that eliminates aluminium.
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2012-10-28 23:53 <wpwrak> actually, Al may still be an option, as long as it's washed soon after use. hmm. need to conduct some experiments on that.
2012-10-28 23:54 <wpwrak> acrylic would be an all-around safe choice, but it's probably too brittle for that task.
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