2012-10-27 00:23 how long until a zynq based nettop/netbook? 2012-10-27 00:28 fire__ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-10-27 00:31 well basically a zedboard could be used as a nettop.. 2012-10-27 00:32 fire__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 00:34 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 00:41 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 2012-10-27 00:52 jluis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-27 00:58 kristianpaul: yes, that'd be nice, no? (a zynq-based computer...) 2012-10-27 00:58 keep an eye open for it and if you see something let us know... 2012-10-27 01:01 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 01:02 xilinx recently acquired petalogix (petalogix.com), presumably to offer linux/embedded solutions around the zynq 2012-10-27 01:08 wolfspraul, good morning. 2012-10-27 01:11 good morning! 2012-10-27 01:21 [commit] Xiangfu: uboot-xburst: split spl and usbboot patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cb2b6b5 2012-10-27 01:25 antgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-27 01:31 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-10-27 01:37 wolfspraul: nice yes :D 2012-10-27 01:37 maybe I should try to experiment with zynq instead of xc6/xc7a ? 2012-10-27 01:38 hmm 2012-10-27 01:38 with a xc7z7020 we could run a full Linux on the arm side, and milky or some pieces of it on the fpga side 2012-10-27 01:40 valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-10-27 01:44 having linux running is a nice entry :-) 2012-10-27 01:44 and the open thing that about reconfigure the fpga from the same os well :) 2012-10-27 01:44 but 2012-10-27 01:45 i think still some more bits to experiement no? 2012-10-27 01:45 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 01:47 at least at the point more resources (bram, dcm) are freed 2012-10-27 01:48 but of course if you are ina hurry for chip SoC solution zynq seems way go 2012-10-27 01:48 got disconnected 2012-10-27 01:48 ouch 2012-10-27 01:48 I saw "but" and then "at least at the point" 2012-10-27 01:48 what was in between? :-) 2012-10-27 01:49 but -> i think still some more bits to experiement no? -> at least at the point more resources (bram, dcm) are freed 2012-10-27 01:49 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-10-27 01:49 I need to check what petalogix has 2012-10-27 01:50 i was sewing xilinx wiki last night 2012-10-27 01:50 they seems to mention upstream... 2012-10-27 01:52 I think everybody by now learned that 'upstream' is the good thing 2012-10-27 01:52 like "iso 9001" in china 2012-10-27 01:53 what it means is another thing 2012-10-27 01:53 just yesterday I pealed off a sticker of a newly bought product that read "ISO 9001 QUATITY CONTROL" 2012-10-27 01:53 very convincing :-) 2012-10-27 01:53 so upstream, yep. great. 2012-10-27 01:53 sounds right 2012-10-27 01:54 now about sdr, i remenber larsc pointed out some interesting sdr combo using zynq 2012-10-27 01:55 nice 2012-10-27 01:55 here in the channel? url/ 2012-10-27 01:55 ? 2012-10-27 01:55 or in milkymist 2012-10-27 01:56 dont remenber link.. i just googled for analog instrument zynq ... 2012-10-27 01:57 but as my initial question i want to see a product that uses zynq currently 2012-10-27 01:58 i guess now is avaliable (xc7z7020) to buy ? 2012-10-27 01:58 engineering samples - yes 2012-10-27 01:59 ah samples.. 2012-10-27 02:02 fire__ is now known as fire_ 2012-10-27 02:20 fire_ is now known as nerd 2012-10-27 03:03 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-10-27 03:03 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 03:16 xiangfu: ok I'm just looking at packages... 2012-10-27 03:17 the slx9 is available in qfp144 and ftg256 as we know 2012-10-27 03:18 then also csg325 (0.8mm spacing) and csg225 and csg484 2012-10-27 03:18 and fgg484 at 1.0 mm spacing 2012-10-27 03:18 ah no, wait. not the slx9... :-) 2012-10-27 03:18 then a small cpg196 package (bga with 0.5mm spacing) 2012-10-27 03:21 artix-7 engineering samples on digikey right now in csg324 (0.8mm bga) and fgg676 (1.0 mm bga) 2012-10-27 03:21 (typo above - for the slx9 I meant csg324, not 325) 2012-10-27 03:22 later on the xc7a100 is also planned to be available in ftg256 and fgg484 2012-10-27 03:22 dvdk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 03:23 [commit] David Kühling: qemu-host: workaround for compile problem with latest openwrt (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/bafe658 2012-10-27 03:23 finally the xc7z7020 is available on digikey right now as engineering samples in clg400 and clg484 packages, both 0.8mm bga 2012-10-27 03:25 xiangfu: so we could try a csg324 slx9 next? :-) 2012-10-27 03:36 liuqi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-10-27 03:36 liuqi has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 04:23 [commit] David Kühling: qemu-host: fix compilation when ccache enabled (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/bf115de 2012-10-27 04:23 [commit] David Kühling: emacs: upgrade to version 23.4 plus various minor fixes (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/cc47920 2012-10-27 04:29 dvdk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-27 04:32 (6 vs. 7) discipline, discipline ... :) 2012-10-27 05:23 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2012-10-27 05:38 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 05:58 checkout this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone 2012-10-27 05:58 it's using zynq 7010, running Ubuntu OS. 2012-10-27 06:06 xiangfu: oh, nice 2012-10-27 06:06 I think I saw this before but didn't pay attention, have to check again 2012-10-27 06:06 and it seems they got their 750k usd that they were aiming for :-) 2012-10-27 06:07 they promised to "open everything" after getting those 750k usd, so what stops them now? we will find out soon :-) 2012-10-27 06:08 maybe that's a new open source business model - open blackmail 2012-10-27 06:08 "I will open these unbelievably valuable 'things' after I receive XXX USD" 2012-10-27 06:08 but anyway, looks like a good project - thanks! 2012-10-27 06:13 porchao has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 2012-10-27 06:16 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 06:17 Q: "will you open source the epiphany chips" A: not initially, but considered later 2012-10-27 06:17 I was thinking a bit more about artix vs. zynq, and realized the cost issue 2012-10-27 06:18 an xc7a100 costs 140 USD on digikey now, vs. 240 USD for the zynq (with 85k fabric cells compared to 100k for the xc7a100) 2012-10-27 06:18 that's 100 USD more for the ARM core 2012-10-27 06:18 LunaVorax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-27 06:18 we can divide digikey prices roughly in half, meaning xc7a100 = 70 USD, xc7z7020 = 120 USD 2012-10-27 06:18 still 50 USD more 2012-10-27 07:38 wolfspra1l: I remember a game writer that promised to give the games open source, if he got donetions over some limit. Didn't succeed, and then continued selling closed source. 2012-10-27 07:39 - he wrote that video game about making linux distributions 2012-10-27 07:42 Isn't the M1 running uclinux? Why the uclinux web page doesn't cite M1? 2012-10-27 08:00 it'srunning linux 2012-10-27 08:13 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 2012-10-27 08:14 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 08:28 kilae_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 08:29 kilae has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-27 08:32 kilae_ has quit [Client Quit] 2012-10-27 08:35 ah, was just going to write about parallella 2012-10-27 08:37 wolfspra1l: if the zynq chip costs $240, how are they able to sell the complete boards for $99? 2012-10-27 08:47 well, they at least have the complete reference manual published 2012-10-27 08:47 that chip has an interesting topology. inter-core write transactions are 16x more efficient than read ones. 2012-10-27 09:06 jluis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-27 09:19 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 09:30 whitequark: "PSoC Creator is a Windows-based IDE. However, I exclusively use Macs" 2012-10-27 09:30 *grin* 2012-10-27 09:30 whitequark: are you coming to EHSM? 2012-10-27 09:35 lekernel: as I've said already, I considered that a toy, so wine would be fine. but it turned out to be a completely un-fun toy. 2012-10-27 09:35 lekernel: EHSM? 2012-10-27 09:35 hm, Dec 28, Berlin... 2012-10-27 09:37 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-10-27 09:37 seems interesting. I wonder if I could get a visa soon enough. 2012-10-27 09:38 jluis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-27 09:38 if you need an invitation letter or such, I can produce one... 2012-10-27 09:40 thanks! I'll consider the options I have. 2012-10-27 09:41 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 09:54 ... and if adapteva just published the sources, I could load it to my M1 and use it right now. sigh. 2012-10-27 09:55 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2012-10-27 09:59 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-10-27 10:00 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 10:00 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2012-10-27 10:00 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 10:04 this EHSM looks very interesting 2012-10-27 10:07 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-27 10:09 whitequark: (un-fun toy) psoc or their IDE ? 2012-10-27 10:10 wpwrak: the psoc-specific parts of toolchain 2012-10-27 10:10 apparently there's no way to compile the PLD bitstream except for that .NET IDE 2012-10-27 10:12 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 10:12 mono can run many .net things 2012-10-27 10:12 well, the chip is completely documented at the register level. so you can just roll your own ;-) 2012-10-27 10:13 viric: it requires native components 2012-10-27 10:13 the ide won't run under either mono@linux, mono@wine or dotnet@wine 2012-10-27 10:14 ok 2012-10-27 10:14 and I'm not going to waste my time by developing the whole application under windows. it's just unproductive. 2012-10-27 10:14 they help you to stay pure ;-) 2012-10-27 10:14 wpwrak: roll my own... that's at least a year of work to make a good toolchain 2012-10-27 10:15 and the chip is too expensive for real projects anyway 2012-10-27 10:15 whitequark: i don't fully understand the parallella thing either, need to read a bit more 2012-10-27 10:15 maybe 99 USD is just for the board containing their newly made asic 2012-10-27 10:15 which is what they need the 750k usd for 2012-10-27 10:15 wolfspra1l: yeah, that's for the board with ASIC 2012-10-27 10:15 (and which won't be opened either) 2012-10-27 10:16 so they found a way to offload the risk of an asic tape-out via kickstarter - great! :-) 2012-10-27 10:16 there should be more such projects, wherever the chips go in the end... 2012-10-27 10:16 whitequark: yeah, they made their new psocs very nice from a technical point of view, but also quite ugly from a price point 2012-10-27 10:18 wolfspra1l: on one hand, they have a really really nice and well thought out ISA (I just read the reference manual), and I'm fairly certain for the completely open toolchain 2012-10-27 10:19 on the other one, the chips will probably never be open 2012-10-27 10:19 you mean at the verilog level ? 2012-10-27 10:19 yup 2012-10-27 10:19 okay, that would be asking for a lot 2012-10-27 10:20 indeed. 2012-10-27 10:21 but when i looked at them a few years ago, they had a very nice reference manual that explained every last bit of "FPGA" state. (among a ton of other things) 2012-10-27 10:21 but it's a coprocessor. it doesn't have as much value as it could unless it can be incorporated in other designs 2012-10-27 10:21 so until wolfgang publishes his results, these psocs are probably the best-documented non-trivial programmable logic in the world :) 2012-10-27 10:22 wpwrak, whitequark: I think you are talking about differnt chips 2012-10-27 10:22 wpwrak: oh, you're talking about PSoCs 2012-10-27 10:22 ah, and you about the parallela critter :) 2012-10-27 10:22 PSoC is what should have actually been at the heart of arduino. it's a perfect prototyping platform. 2012-10-27 10:23 maybe when freeSoC completes their job, someone will write a good toolchain for it 2012-10-27 10:23 yeah, good point 2012-10-27 10:31 e2580 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 10:32 something on the scale of PSoC might be a good starting point for a kind of opensource fpga 2012-10-27 10:49 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-27 10:51 hi 2012-10-27 10:51 panda|z has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 10:52 xiangfu: yo ;) 2012-10-27 10:52 Anyone interested in a sneak peek at a hardware based security device we are about ready to release? 2012-10-27 10:52 e2580: sure, what's that? 2012-10-27 10:52 www.cryptx2.com 2012-10-27 10:53 details on the info page. i can answer questions if you have any 2012-10-27 10:53 e2580: can you give a short overview/introduction? 2012-10-27 10:55 the device is a hardware encrypted storage device 2012-10-27 10:55 in short 2012-10-27 10:55 for details the website lists the features and functions on info page mostly 2012-10-27 10:55 the video is not quite ready yet... 2012-10-27 10:56 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 10:56 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2012-10-27 10:56 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 10:57 e2580: OK, sounds like to protect your data on SD card? 2012-10-27 10:58 e2580: so data on those 2 SD card is not accessable without this device? 2012-10-27 10:58 sd card is used for the storage of the data 2012-10-27 10:58 the data on the sd cards is aes256 encrypted, you will not be able to decrypt it without the device 2012-10-27 11:00 e2580: OK, I see, it's cool, but probably I have no chance to use it :) 2012-10-27 11:01 there will be suppliers outside the USA shortly after release 2012-10-27 11:01 we are restricted on the export due to US law :( 2012-10-27 11:01 but it is pen source, so the device will be built by other :) 2012-10-27 11:04 e2580: so a lot of people in U.S need such device to protect their data on SD card? or just for some professional users? 2012-10-27 11:06 this device is mostly for IT or security professionals. but anyone interested in true data security, or small businesses, or anyone doing R&D that needs secure data storage will be interested 2012-10-27 11:06 the average person will likely not need this device 2012-10-27 11:07 you dont need a bank vault at fort knox to protect $20 lol 2012-10-27 11:11 yeah, it's a too heavy gun 2012-10-27 11:11 it will have some other functions for normal users 2012-10-27 11:12 such as emulating a cdrom with iso, so you cn load iso on one of the sd cards, and it will act as cdrom 2012-10-27 11:12 the other will be storage encrypted 2012-10-27 11:12 firmware is upgradeable on the device, so you can make it do many other things 2012-10-27 11:15 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 11:17 e2580: so I need to enter the passkey via the buttons?.. 2012-10-27 11:17 sounds quite tedious 2012-10-27 11:17 besides that, there were quite a few articles on circumventing hardware security 2012-10-27 11:18 simplest is to cover parts of the chip with UV-impenetrable substance and then use UV to erase the, for example, firmware, or fuse bits 2012-10-27 11:20 you can do very interesting things with an AFM, and you can get one with $10k if you want 2012-10-27 11:20 also, hardware AES bitstream crypto was broken on a certain military-grade FPGA by analyzing EM emissions 2012-10-27 11:20 statistically 2012-10-27 11:21 being open-source is nice, but I assume from the export restrictions that you use a specialized chip with a hardware crypto module, and it's pretty certainly not open-source 2012-10-27 11:22 I also don't see the partnumber of the chip anywhere on the website 2012-10-27 11:28 whitequark, link me to any articles 2012-10-27 11:29 DPA is not going to be possible on this device, it has ECM enabled 2012-10-27 11:29 also, this device is not UV eeprom 2012-10-27 11:30 e2580: obviously it isn't UV eeprom 2012-10-27 11:30 but you can erase any eeprom with UV rays if you expose the die :) 2012-10-27 11:30 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sps32/mcu_lock.html 2012-10-27 11:30 http://hackaday.com/2011/06/27/bunnies-archives-unlocking-protected-microcontrollers/ 2012-10-27 11:30 kristoffer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 11:30 also, the aes key is not stored on the device, so you wont be able to gain much from the mico even if you found a way to crack it (highly unlikely) 2012-10-27 11:31 where is it stored? 2012-10-27 11:31 or, rather, the salt part of the key 2012-10-27 11:32 I guess the AES key is derived from the user input. is that correct? 2012-10-27 11:32 5 button means total of 2012-10-27 11:33 kyak: the key is entered with four buttons, and it has arbitrary length 2012-10-27 11:33 oh ok) 2012-10-27 11:33 think entering 2-bit characters per click 2012-10-27 11:33 user input key > salt, stored on the micro controller > hash = aes key. aes key is not stored. instead a data block is decrypted with the resulting aes key and checked for a value, if the value that is decrypted is correct, they the key is considered valid, else it is not valid 2012-10-27 11:34 which classes of attacks are you trying to prevent? 2012-10-27 11:34 5 buttons, each is 2bit, so you can have 4-128 digit passwords. but since the user data is salted, it doesnt matter much (in theory) what the length of user input is 2012-10-27 11:35 it matters a lot 2012-10-27 11:35 we are trying to defeat all kinds of attacks.. 2012-10-27 11:35 because if your input is short, and you can extract the salt from within the microcontroller 2012-10-27 11:35 you can trivially brute-force the key 2012-10-27 11:36 all kinds of attacks? hah. what about the "connect standalone VBUS and just steal the device with the key in RAM" attack? 2012-10-27 11:36 removing the data from the micro will not be as easy as this article describes.. i would like to see someone try it on this at32uc3a3256s. 2012-10-27 11:37 I would like to see an analysis of that attack channel, too. 2012-10-27 11:37 however, i would suggest a long password just in case salt is some how obtained 2012-10-27 11:37 btw, i just bought a soldering iron, literally half an hour ago :) it this is used for attack, it will be very hard to prevent :) 2012-10-27 11:39 the key is only in the device memory when it is unlocked 2012-10-27 11:39 and then, only in secure memory 2012-10-27 11:39 there isnt a ram dump to get the key from memoryon the MCU 2012-10-27 11:40 e2580: that is correct. but I don't see any hardware countermeasures against selective erasing mentioned in the datasheet 2012-10-27 11:40 which means that no, the need to erase complete chip could be easily circumvented as it has been already shown 2012-10-27 11:41 it _is_ circumvented even when the EEPROMs are covered by metal areas, and here they're probably bare. 2012-10-27 11:41 there are 6 user accessable gpio on the device, you can add your own solutions 2012-10-27 11:42 the countermeasure for a UV attack like you suggested, if it is even possible for this micro is already used. only the salt is store. so the key is still missing 2012-10-27 11:44 you need the user entered password, and the salt to generate the aes key for encryption/decryption 2012-10-27 11:44 yeah, I understand that 2012-10-27 11:45 which hash do you use? 2012-10-27 11:45 so unless the data is in an unlocked state, the aes key is not in the device.. if the device is unlocked, why do all the work for a UV attack, just read the data 2012-10-27 11:45 unless it's a hard-to-compute hash function like PBKDF2, a, for example, 64-bit user input could be trivially bruteforced by an array of FPGAs 2012-10-27 11:46 sha256 will likely be used for the default hash, we will offer many firmware versions, and users can ad their own code. 2012-10-27 11:46 I would suggest to use a hash function which isn't optimized for speed 2012-10-27 11:47 we may chain several hash alg. to increase compute time 2012-10-27 11:47 there are well-known solutions for that problem already 2012-10-27 11:48 google 'bcrypt' 2012-10-27 11:48 the problem is, your microcontroller is severely underpowered. what takes a hour on it could be computed in a second on an fpga. 2012-10-27 11:49 The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20121026-0410 2012-10-27 11:50 the key only needs to be calculated on unlocking, so a few seconds delay to user is not a big deal. yes, i know this is less time of fpga or gpu cluster etc.. but still adds computational cost to brute force 2012-10-27 11:50 exactly 2012-10-27 11:51 so you need to estimate the bruteforce times and give an advice on the size of user input 2012-10-27 11:52 e2580: it's pretty interesting, AES256 key is stored on this device, so users need to maintain it in the safe place physically such as safe box 2012-10-27 11:52 we do have methods to prevent hardware attack on the MCU, which will be released on the forum later. the user can make use of the gpio to add protections. we will not add these optional methods, due to praticallity, leagality or other reasons. but it is possible to prevent any type of mcu attack 2012-10-27 11:53 aes256 key is not stored on the device... 2012-10-27 11:53 e2580: crackers might anonymously install some daemon like USB monitor on host side to try to sniff the data? 2012-10-27 11:53 the host side data is plain text 2012-10-27 11:54 plain text goes into and comes out of the device, it is encrypted on the fly in the MCU and written encrypted to the sd cards 2012-10-27 11:54 you can monitor the data lines on the usb all you want, its plain text, so why bother if you have that access ? 2012-10-27 11:55 e2580: oh, I see 2012-10-27 11:55 e2580: sorry, I'm still wondering the use case :) 2012-10-27 11:56 the device is for securing data at rest 2012-10-27 11:56 stored data 2012-10-27 11:56 e2580: OK, so howto generate, dispatch and maintain the aes256 key? 2012-10-27 11:57 dispatch ? 2012-10-27 11:58 user enter password > salt > hash = aes key. then check the aes key is correct by reading a block of encrypted data and check for expected value. if value is ok, then aes key is ok, if not, key is bad 2012-10-27 11:59 aes key is stored while in use only, in secure ram of the mcu 2012-10-27 12:00 e2580: ah, I used to think all the aes256 key are under control from you guys, just in case, if end user lost their crypt2x, then you guys can help them issue a new one as replacement 2012-10-27 12:00 haha 2012-10-27 12:00 no 2012-10-27 12:00 if the key is lost, or if you wipe the salt ie by too many bad passkey attempts the data is lost 2012-10-27 12:00 no? so if end user lost their crypt2x or it's physically been destoryed by force, there is no way to recovery any crypted data on SD card? 2012-10-27 12:01 there is no recovery 2012-10-27 12:01 unless you can break aes256 then no 2012-10-27 12:01 em ... it is really a secure device ... 2012-10-27 12:01 so what's the risk for you guys hold user's aes key as a truested 3rd party? 2012-10-27 12:01 the device goal is security over ease of use... so no recovery functions 2012-10-27 12:02 users still hold their 5 key code, just like automobile manufacture for holding engine code 2012-10-27 12:02 that adds unneeded risk to the security of the device, you cant validate our storage methods 2012-10-27 12:03 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 12:03 sorry, I'm totally a newbie with those naive questions, but trust me, I just ask cause those are not included in your current FAQ 2012-10-27 12:03 do you trust us... companies like RSA and ssl cert issuers can be attacked, so why trust us ? 2012-10-27 12:03 the goal of open source is to make the code openly available for review 2012-10-27 12:04 if you give us the key, that means somewhere out there, there is a way to break your security 2012-10-27 12:04 e2580: but it's a two factor authentication, user still hold their 5 buttons password 2012-10-27 12:05 ok, so you are asking if we can backup the salt ? 2012-10-27 12:05 oh, right, that's the point! 2012-10-27 12:06 you can do some kinds of data back up 2012-10-27 12:06 you can do a disk image of the sd cards. but you still need the cryptx2 to decrypt it, so you must use the same device, and user passkey 2012-10-27 12:07 e2580: oops, nono ... 2012-10-27 12:07 or, you can unlock the cryptx2, and copy the files like you would on a normal hard drive and save them somepalce else 2012-10-27 12:08 e2580: what is the defination of 'salt', if user hold their password, they can re-generate the salt again? 2012-10-27 12:09 salt is like a second part of the password 2012-10-27 12:09 so to unlcok the device you need both, user entered passkey and the salt, to then make the aes key 2012-10-27 12:10 the salt is stored in the MCU 2012-10-27 12:10 randomly generated when you format the device 2012-10-27 12:11 in the default firmware the salt is randomly generated, so you dont know what it is, and you cant restore it 2012-10-27 12:11 e2580: so user backup salt is possible and will be able to use the same password with salt to get the same aes256 key if they lost their crypt2x? 2012-10-27 12:11 on alternate firmware we will allow users to create their own, so they can back it up then in case the cryptx2 needs to be replaced, they can gain access to the data on a new one 2012-10-27 12:12 in the default firmware, you CANT backup the salt. that is part f the security 2012-10-27 12:12 xiangfu: hi, just checking the latest minimal build.. i think you should keep the xorg.feed patches, otherwise it will fail all the time. 2012-10-27 12:13 the salt is going to be more secure if it is randomly generated, VS user input which is much less likely to be high entropy 2012-10-27 12:13 e2580: well, I'm thinking of using this device in this way, plug one at home PC, another one at home, then bring SD cards with me everyday, so if I can clone with the same salt, then it's possible? 2012-10-27 12:13 sigh, maybe using crypt2x in this way will break some basic known security regulation:( 2012-10-27 12:13 with the alernate firmware we will offer, you can do that. but not with the default firmware. you can change the firmware easily yourself 2012-10-27 12:18 e2580: cool, I see, thanks for your details, so how much for such a device? 2012-10-27 12:21 target price is $65-75 USD with no sd cards 2012-10-27 12:23 e2580: wow! any possible to run it on kickstarter and make it much cheap with big volume? 2012-10-27 12:26 we are doing kickstarter, within about 2 weeks 2012-10-27 12:26 this is the kickstarter price 2012-10-27 12:28 e2580: cool! I will think about to back your project 2012-10-27 12:28 hopefully as a early bird:) 2012-10-27 12:30 the website has an email notification list, we will send an advanced email to people on that list 2012-10-27 12:30 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 12:41 damn autotools 2012-10-27 13:09 kyak, yes. applied. it will apply those 2 patch(xorg. and your openwrt.ticket12317.patch) to both minimal and full_system build. 2012-10-27 13:11 kyak, let's see how emacs build. 2012-10-27 13:11 thanks to David for fixing the emacs build error. 2012-10-27 13:12 damn podofo. I can't build it for mips32 2012-10-27 13:12 /tmp/nix-build-r9q21gmnzjd324c7ygldpj53afx5mmvi-podofo-0.9.1-mipsel-unknown-linux.drv-1/podofo-0.9.1/src/base/PdfCompilerCompatPrivate.h:148:37: error: invalid 'asm': invalid use of '%w' 2012-10-27 13:13 I think it has some "htons" in asm 2012-10-27 13:15 viric, some head files problem? like gcc parameters -I etc. (I just do a quick google :) 2012-10-27 13:15 e2580 has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2012-10-27 13:16 no idea :) 2012-10-27 13:16 I've to dig. 2012-10-27 13:16 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2012-10-27 13:25 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-27 13:27 heberth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 13:39 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 2012-10-27 13:44 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 13:44 xiangfu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-10-27 14:57 porchaso0 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 14:58 porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-10-27 15:11 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 15:13 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 15:18 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 15:46 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 15:49 heberth has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2012-10-27 16:14 heberth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 16:37 antgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-27 16:42 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 16:57 heberth has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-10-27 17:22 viric_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 17:22 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2012-10-27 17:30 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 17:40 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2012-10-27 17:45 jluis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-27 17:57 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 17:57 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 17:58 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 18:21 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-10-27 18:22 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 18:56 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 19:04 lekernel_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 19:04 lekernel has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-10-27 19:23 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-10-27 19:24 heberth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 19:27 LunaVorax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-27 20:19 antgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-27 20:20 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 20:30 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2012-10-27 20:42 kristoffer has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-10-27 20:58 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 21:02 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 21:46 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-27 21:47 heberth has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-10-27 21:47 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 21:47 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2012-10-27 21:47 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 22:14 dandon has quit [Quit: i'll be so back later. lol women in binders. a binder of women] 2012-10-27 22:33 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 22:59 freakazoid0223 has left #qi-hardware ["Leaving"] 2012-10-27 23:12 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-27 23:14 antgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]