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2012-10-16 02:16 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: mplayer disable libgsm (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e0f74ab
2012-10-16 02:16 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: libggi: fix depends (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/5faa9e4
2012-10-16 02:16 * xiangfu finial create my first ugly pcb design. 
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2012-10-16 02:55 <xiangfu> s/finial/finally :)
2012-10-16 02:57 <kristianpaul> picture picture !
2012-10-16 03:03 <wpwrak> midnight ... marie antoinette remembrance day, the day when we honor our disconnected political elites, has just begun :)
2012-10-16 03:04 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, I already print it on a photo paper.
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2012-10-16 03:04 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, this will not working on photo paper. since you can see the BGA ball short a lot.
2012-10-16 03:05 <kristianpaul> bga :o
2012-10-16 03:06 <kristianpaul> i tought was tqfp
2012-10-16 03:07 <kristianpaul> you are moving to slx45 now? ;-)
2012-10-16 03:07 <kristianpaul> it should not short on the paper...
2012-10-16 03:07 <xiangfu> no. it's slx9, ftg256.
2012-10-16 03:08 <xiangfu> the short , you think it is my printer problem?
2012-10-16 03:08 <kristianpaul> i bet
2012-10-16 03:08 <qi-bot> The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20121016-0420
2012-10-16 03:09 <kristianpaul> i never trust my re-charged cardrige laser printed for those tasks..
2012-10-16 03:10 <kristianpaul> but hey you need a more than two layer pcb anyway...
2012-10-16 03:11 <xiangfu> great. this build will test for release.
2012-10-16 03:11 <kristianpaul> good :-) lts release?
2012-10-16 03:11 <kristianpaul> you should follow owrt release cycles, i havent update my router since years
2012-10-16 03:12 <kristianpaul> and seems newest fimrmware will no run well anyway so.. ;-)
2012-10-16 03:12 <wpwrak> for diy, i'd strongly suggest to stay away from bga
2012-10-16 03:12 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: mplayer: fix deps (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/fe641a3
2012-10-16 03:13 <kristianpaul> and ftg?
2012-10-16 03:13 <wpwrak> it can be painful enough to debug things where you don't have to worry so much about the contacts
2012-10-16 03:13 <wpwrak> let's see what ftg is ..
2012-10-16 03:13 <kristianpaul> same :)
2012-10-16 03:13 <kristianpaul> to me eyes
2012-10-16 03:14 <wpwrak> naw, don't try bga for your first project. use something simple. tqfp or such.
2012-10-16 03:15 <wpwrak> the next step is qfn / mlf. some are pretty friendly, i.e., the ones with inclined sides. others less so, i.e., the ones with vertical sides.
2012-10-16 03:16 <kristianpaul> and let said you got soldering all the balls, you still need more layers to route all chip...
2012-10-16 03:18 <wpwrak> depends on the pitch and on how many balls you actually need. but yes, in general, bga isn't suitable for diy pcbs. the best you can hope for is diy aoldering.
2012-10-16 03:18 <xiangfu> ftg256 is bga.
2012-10-16 03:19 <wpwrak> xiangfu: how do you plan to solder it ?
2012-10-16 03:20 <wpwrak> xiangfu: and do you expect to make your own pcb, or have the pcb made at a fab ?
2012-10-16 03:20 <xiangfu> direct use the hot air or an oven.
2012-10-16 03:21 <kristianpaul> oven oven !
2012-10-16 03:21 <kristianpaul> had you previous hot air esperience btw?
2012-10-16 03:21 <kristianpaul> be careful
2012-10-16 03:21 <xiangfu> wpwrak, about pcb, I want do that parallel, etching and send the file out to some fab.
2012-10-16 03:21 <xiangfu> 100RMB give you 10cmX8cm. 10 pcs. it needs 4~5 days
2012-10-16 03:22 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, hot air. not much. I have a useless pcba for test. :)
2012-10-16 03:22 <wpwrak> fab sounds reasonable for the pcb. that may allow you to have vias under the fpga. in general, it's almost unavoidable to have vias there (with a bga). and diy can't do that.
2012-10-16 03:23 <wpwrak> still, i'd try to find a nice *qfp package if i was you :)
2012-10-16 03:25 <wpwrak> (or qfn, but i don't think they use that for fpgas. qfn is harder to solder than tqfp/lqfp but still manageable.)
2012-10-16 03:25 <kristianpaul> but xilinx..
2012-10-16 03:25 <kristianpaul> 7 series seems have all from bga
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2012-10-16 03:27 <kristianpaul> :-/
2012-10-16 03:27 <xiangfu> wpwrak, my first plan even complicate. with all power ic and caps on pcb.
2012-10-16 03:27 <xiangfu> then I found I have problem on routing wires.
2012-10-16 03:27 <kristianpaul> tought csg is 0.8mm pitch..
2012-10-16 03:27 <xiangfu> so I remove again and again. then it only have the ftg256 chip and osc. :)
2012-10-16 03:28 <kristianpaul> ah ftg is .2 bigger
2012-10-16 03:28 <xiangfu> wpwrak, yes. since I have those qfp pin-out board. I direct jump to bga. for new xilinx chips.
2012-10-16 03:29 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, yes. that is 1mm pitch.
2012-10-16 03:29 <wpwrak> XC6SLX9-2TQG144C doesn't sound too evil. lqfp. 0.5 mm pitch is a bit tight, though.
2012-10-16 03:29 <kristianpaul> i like that
2012-10-16 03:30 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, most of xilinx chip is 1mm. only CSG and SBG is 0.8mm
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2012-10-16 03:30 <wpwrak> yeah, only bga for series 7
2012-10-16 03:31 <wpwrak> but ... if experimenting with series 6 now, AND it's your first pcb, there's little point in making your own life miserable
2012-10-16 03:31 <kristianpaul> tought you can follow azonenberg adventures on bga :)
2012-10-16 03:32 <wpwrak> i'm sure the wright brothers dreamed of flying to the moon, but they had the good sense of not trying their first flight with a supersonic rocket engine ;-)
2012-10-16 03:34 <kristianpaul> were diferent times ;-)
2012-10-16 03:34 <xiangfu> wpwrak, about XC6SLX9-2TQG144C, after follow your advices. I made 3 quiet stable board. now it is like: http://www.openmobilefree.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_1190.jpg and http://www.openmobilefree.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_1192.jpg
2012-10-16 03:35 <xiangfu> wpwrak, the cable that for osc. it have GND wrap the singal around.
2012-10-16 03:35 <wpwrak> nice :) it's getting better
2012-10-16 03:35 <xiangfu> wpwrak, (not trying their first flight with a supersonic rocket engine ) :-)
2012-10-16 03:36 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, yes. I use azonenberg libs.
2012-10-16 03:36 <wpwrak> it'll still be a miracle if it works, but you're one step closer to something that might :)
2012-10-16 03:37 <kristianpaul> wrap?
2012-10-16 03:37 <kristianpaul> why?
2012-10-16 03:38 <xiangfu> wpwrak, I have a jtag-communication, can read the clock counter out. for 1000 time, it give 3 ~4 errors. still not stable enough.
2012-10-16 03:38 <wpwrak> why "why" ?
2012-10-16 03:39 <kristianpaul> why wrap things on a pcb with a fpga :)
2012-10-16 03:39 <wpwrak> xiangfu: yeah, that's roughly what i'd expect. circuits rarely fail 100%, but if you abuse them badly enough, they fail noticeably often.
2012-10-16 03:39 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: because he hasn't made his own pcb yet :)
2012-10-16 03:40 <wpwrak> alas, that adapter board is likely to do more harm than good
2012-10-16 03:40 <wpwrak> e.g., i doubt is has correct bypassing
2012-10-16 03:40 <xiangfu> wpwrak, I have to jump to BGA now. :) or it will take me too much time . good thing is I don't want all 256 pins out. I only need ~10 of them. so I want keep it 2 layer.
2012-10-16 03:41 <wpwrak> and the long cables probably act are excellent antennas. so maybe the board works at daytime, when the neighbour is away, but fails when he's back in the evening, downloading porn over wifi
2012-10-16 03:41 <xiangfu> wpwrak, 4 layer will totally not fit for me. I can read the 4 layer pcb. I can not create it now by kicad. :(
2012-10-16 03:42 <xiangfu> wpwrak, :-D
2012-10-16 03:42 <wpwrak> why do you think bga will help you save time ?
2012-10-16 03:43 <xiangfu> wpwrak, (, i doubt is has correct bypassing) what do you mean ?
2012-10-16 03:43 <xiangfu> wpwrak, skip qfp-pcb, direct go to bga-pcb. I think it will same me 50% time of qfp-pcb. :)
2012-10-16 03:43 <wpwrak> (bypassing) capacitors, placed very near (not more than a few mm) to the fpga's pins
2012-10-16 03:44 <xiangfu> wpwrak, oh. yes.
2012-10-16 03:45 <wpwrak> well ... in addition to the circuit problems you'll have to fight the soldering problems. and if you discover that you need to access some pin that's unconnected, you have to make another board
2012-10-16 03:45 <xiangfu> wpwrak, one of the 3 board have little improvement. the capacitors at the back of qfp144 pin-out board.
2012-10-16 03:45 <wpwrak> with *qfp, you just solder a little wire to that "new" pin
2012-10-16 03:45 <wpwrak> (caps) ah, that's good. that should help a lot.
2012-10-16 03:47 <wpwrak> the oscillator may need a cap, too
2012-10-16 03:47 <xiangfu> wpwrak, yes.
2012-10-16 03:48 <xiangfu> wpwrak, about this print [http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/tmp/ftg256_ugly_pcb.JPG]. do you think it is my printer problem?
2012-10-16 03:48 <xiangfu> wpwrak, I am using Brother HL-2140 laser printer.
2012-10-16 03:49 <kristianpaul> use foil paper at night :-)
2012-10-16 03:50 <wpwrak> that looks rather odd indeed
2012-10-16 03:51 <wpwrak> does the postscript look fine ?
2012-10-16 03:52 <xiangfu> (with *qfp, you just solder a little wire to that "new" pin) I think I have experience on pin-out board. so I direct jump to pcb. and I this one not working. I have to learn more knowledge on pcb (via etc)
2012-10-16 03:53 <xiangfu> wpwrak, too bad. I am still not read the book you advise me.
2012-10-16 03:53 <xiangfu> wpwrak, the postscript looks good.
2012-10-16 03:54 <wpwrak> looks like a printer driver problem then. maybe google around a bit. cups may also have more than one driver for your printer and selecting a different one may help
2012-10-16 03:55 <wpwrak> the pin-out board was a detour. if you make your own board, you can improve a lot of things even if still using *qfp.
2012-10-16 03:55 <wpwrak> e.g., you can have a nice big ground plane. and much shorter tracks for everything.
2012-10-16 03:56 <xiangfu> wpwrak, wait. I check the postscript agian.
2012-10-16 03:56 <xiangfu> wpwrak, it looks same as the result.
2012-10-16 03:56 <wpwrak> hah ! :)
2012-10-16 03:56 <wpwrak> in pcbnew, did you "plot" or "print" ?
2012-10-16 03:57 <xiangfu> "print"
2012-10-16 03:57 <wpwrak> i rest my case ;-)
2012-10-16 03:57 <wpwrak> "print" is broken. only use "plot"
2012-10-16 03:57 <xiangfu> (the pin-out board was a detour....  you can improve a lot...) yes. totally agree.
2012-10-16 03:58 <xiangfu> wpwrak, trying plot now..
2012-10-16 03:58 <wpwrak> you should find the "make front" and "make back" targets in my various projects useful. they invoke pcbnew with all the right settings for toner transfer
2012-10-16 03:59 <wpwrak> in particular, they select the right mirroring
2012-10-16 04:00 <xiangfu> plot looks much much better.
2012-10-16 04:00 <wpwrak> kewl :)
2012-10-16 04:02 <xiangfu> huge difference :)
2012-10-16 04:05 * kristianpaul take note about plot
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2012-10-16 05:38 <kyak> xiangfu: qt4 build is still failing on buildhost?
2012-10-16 05:49 <kyak> xiangfu: also, why mpg123 gets built? It depends on BUILD_PATENTED...
2012-10-16 05:50 <kyak> that's pretty damn strange, i see qt4 has built.. perhaps it's one of qt4's packages that fails to build
2012-10-16 05:52 <kyak> ah, ok we are hitting this bug: https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/11266 with BUILD_PATENTED
2012-10-16 06:06 <xiangfu> kyak, part of qt4 failed.
2012-10-16 06:07 <xiangfu> kyak, so we can just remove mpg123 instead of re-build. right?
2012-10-16 06:13 <kyak> xiangfu: just forget about mpg123, it won't get built
2012-10-16 06:14 <kyak> xiangfu: do you know which part of qt4 failed?
2012-10-16 06:15 <kyak> there are two dependent packages, which have failed due to qt4 - these are qball and qstardict. Makes we wonder, because qball has exactly the same deps as Tile, which built just fine
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2012-10-16 07:42 <xiangfu> kyak, qt-xml. and I know qt-demos also failed.
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2012-10-16 10:16 <roh> h
2012-10-16 10:22 <roh> re
2012-10-16 10:37 <kyak> xiangfu: strange, qt4-xml builds just fine here
2012-10-16 10:38 <viric> damn serial port
2012-10-16 10:38 <xiangfu> yes. here[http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20121016-0420/packages/] only have 3 qt4 packages.
2012-10-16 10:38 <viric> Has anyone ever connected two linuces by serial port, and then expect one side "echo hello > /dev/ttyS0" to emit hello at the other side, running "cat /dev/ttyS0"?
2012-10-16 10:38 <viric> what magic is there?
2012-10-16 10:41 <xiangfu> viric, I just do then on ben nanonoto and laptop. it works fine.
2012-10-16 10:42 <viric> maybe I have some broken hw in the middle
2012-10-16 10:42 <viric> I just can't tell what
2012-10-16 10:42 <viric> xiangfu: does 'cat' and 'echo' work for you?
2012-10-16 10:43 <viric> xiangfu: can you paste 'stty -F serialdevice -a' ?
2012-10-16 10:44 <xiangfu> viric, laptop[/dev/ttyUSB0](running cat /dev/ttyUSB0) --> nanonote[/dev/ttyS0] (running echo hello > /dev/ttyS0)
2012-10-16 10:44 <xiangfu> wait..
2012-10-16 10:45 <xiangfu> http://dpaste.com/814225/ this is the laptop output.
2012-10-16 10:45 <xiangfu> http://dpaste.com/814229/ this is the nanonote output.
2012-10-16 10:48 <xiangfu> 'cat' and 'echo' works fine here.
2012-10-16 10:49 <viric> hm ok
2012-10-16 10:49 <viric> I might have something wrong
2012-10-16 10:52 <roh> viric: try using screen on both sides
2012-10-16 10:53 <roh> screen /dev/ttyS0 9600
2012-10-16 10:53 <roh> and make sure its a nullmodem cable ;)
2012-10-16 10:53 <roh> pin 5 straigh through (gnd) and 2 and 3 crossed
2012-10-16 10:53 <roh> +t
2012-10-16 10:54 <viric> 2 and 3 are crossed
2012-10-16 10:54 <roh> some weird serials loose state as soon as you close them (baudrate, handshake etc)
2012-10-16 10:54 <roh> so simply cat may npt work
2012-10-16 10:55 <viric> it's a full featured null modem cable.
2012-10-16 10:55 <viric> with hw flow control even
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2012-10-16 11:01 <viric> I think I have a bad mainboard-to-db9 cable
2012-10-16 11:02 <viric> or a broken mainboard port
2012-10-16 11:04 <viric> the mainboard manual even does not include the pinout of the COM1 connector
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2012-10-16 11:15 <viric> crossing tx/rx doesn't give echo, in one end.
2012-10-16 11:15 <viric> on the other, yes.
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2012-10-16 21:24 <pcercuei> hi fellow neighbours
2012-10-16 21:24 <pcercuei> I want to introduce some change on GMenu2X, that might break things, I want your green light first
2012-10-16 21:25 <pcercuei> each app on gmenu2x can be given parameters
2012-10-16 21:25 <pcercuei> I want to drop that feature
2012-10-16 21:25 <pcercuei> that's unpractical, and redundant; if an app requires specific (and constant) parameters, then it's much more practical to wrap the binary using a script
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2012-10-16 21:30 <mth> is "exec=application --arg" equivalent to the parameters feature?
2012-10-16 21:32 <pcercuei> I think in the current code, the value given to "exec" must be a file without arguments, as there is a check on the existence of the binary: if the binary is not present the link won't display
2012-10-16 21:32 <pcercuei> but that's fixable very easily
2012-10-16 21:33 <mth> since in .desktop, "Exec" can include arguments, including things like %f for a file name
2012-10-16 21:34 <mth> gmenu2x doesn't use .desktop at the moment, but maybe could in the future (also outside of OPK support)
2012-10-16 21:34 <whitequark> pcercuei: why drop that feature? it isn't hard to implement/maintain by any means
2012-10-16 21:35 <pcercuei> whitequark: just like every other "feature" we dropped, because it's crappily implemented, we don't use it at all, and it's redundant
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2012-10-16 21:46 <pcercuei> meh
2012-10-16 21:46 <pcercuei> GMenu2X will chmod() the binaries
2012-10-16 21:46 <pcercuei> how dirty is that?
2012-10-16 21:47 <whitequark> ow.
2012-10-16 21:58 <kyak> pcercuei: not a very good idea to drop params, since we've found a use to that feature: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/nanonote-files/gmenu2x-icons/gmenu2x/sections/terminals/ash-default
2012-10-16 21:58 <kyak> yeah, we could just create a shell script wrapper for that :)
2012-10-16 21:59 <pcercuei> kyak: all those params could be appended to the exec= line
2012-10-16 22:00 <kyak> then we would have to re-write the code that check if a link is existing, just as you mentioned
2012-10-16 22:01 <pcercuei> that's not really a problem
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2012-10-16 22:02 <kyak> we've got 26 links using "params"
2012-10-16 22:03 <kyak> well, that's fixable..
2012-10-16 22:03 <kyak> but maybe better leave it as it is for good
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2012-10-16 22:03 <pcercuei> mmhhh
2012-10-16 22:04 <pcercuei> in that case, can I just remove the option to edit the parameters on the config menu?
2012-10-16 22:05 <pcercuei> I assume the user never need to modify the params
2012-10-16 22:05 <kyak> i don't even remember a shortcut for that option :)
2012-10-16 22:06 <pcercuei> on the "edit" menu, you can modify the parameters
2012-10-16 22:06 <pcercuei> which shouldn't happen IMHO
2012-10-16 22:06 <kyak> i think you can remove it, it's easier to edit the link file itself (in my opinion)
2012-10-16 22:07 <pcercuei> also, are you aware that the "params" of gmenu2x are heavily parsed for keynames?
2012-10-16 22:07 <kyak> sorry, gtg..
2012-10-16 22:07 <pcercuei> like "[selFile]"
2012-10-16 22:08 <pcercuei> if you use "[selFile]" on the params, it will be replaced by the file selected
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2012-10-16 22:24 <pcercuei> btw, could we add an "editable" option?
2012-10-16 22:24 <pcercuei> if editable=false is set on a link, then the "Edit" option on the contextual menu is hidden
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