2012-10-13 00:01 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 00:07 Jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-10-13 00:14 thanks 2012-10-13 00:22 DocScrutinizer05: light in the sense of simple or light in the sense of being able to service lots of requests on modest hardware? 2012-10-13 00:22 aiui as in simple 2012-10-13 00:22 or small 2012-10-13 00:22 easy probably 2012-10-13 00:23 a friend of mine maintains this server: http://www.xs-httpd.org/ 2012-10-13 00:23 and there is also a small http server included in python 2012-10-13 00:23 example code using the python server: http://code.google.com/p/toys4droids/source/browse/easy_webserver.py 2012-10-13 00:23 [2012-10-13 00:22:50] hm what's the quickest way to start a local http server for some time? 2012-10-13 00:27 maybe /etc/init.d/httpd start; sleep SOME_TIME; /etc/init.d/httpd stop ? :) 2012-10-13 00:27 replace "httpd" with whatever you fancy 2012-10-13 00:37 loking at this eQ3 homematic CCU station, I feel like paying RMS a beer 2012-10-13 00:37 looking* 2012-10-13 00:39 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-10-13 00:39 one of those rogue companies who thing printing the GPL on last 2 pages of their user manual "booklet" is all it needs to abuse OSS 2012-10-13 00:39 think* - damn typos 2012-10-13 00:40 DocScrutinizer05: homematic has gpl stuff in it? 2012-10-13 00:41 on the CCU there's quite obviously a linux 2012-10-13 00:42 all the way from ntpd to kernel 2012-10-13 00:42 and I can't find the source anywhere 2012-10-13 00:45 ~ # uname -a 2012-10-13 00:45 Linux homematic 2.6.21.3 #6 Thu May 31 12:51:30 CEST 2012 armv4tl unknown 2012-10-13 00:46 BusyBox v1.00 (2012.05.14-12:29+0000) Built-in shell (ash) 2012-10-13 00:47 crippled to death 2012-10-13 00:47 ~ # df -h 2012-10-13 00:47 Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on 2012-10-13 00:47 /dev/mtdblock2 32.0M 22.5M 9.5M 70% / 2012-10-13 00:48 /dev/mtdblock3 32.0M 2.4M 29.6M 7% /usr/local 2012-10-13 00:48 tempfs 32.0M 576.0k 31.4M 2% /var 2012-10-13 00:50 freakazoid0223 has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-10-13 00:57 http://pastebin.com/yCUELZkV 2012-10-13 01:00 roh: I know I'll get banned now for owning such a crappy device ;-P 2012-10-13 01:01 freakazoid0223 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 01:01 freakazoid0223 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-10-13 01:02 esp for that hefty pricetag 2012-10-13 01:02 freakazoid0223 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 01:04 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 01:04 ancient kernel as well 2012-10-13 01:05 I even heard their glorified "bidCos[TM!1!!]" is not safe against replay attacks - something particularly nasty for a bidir protocol that could easily run proper challenge-response auth 2012-10-13 01:05 DocScrutinizer05: maybe send in a report to gpl-v ;) 2012-10-13 01:05 when you know a ticket# holler... 2012-10-13 01:08 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 01:21 roh: well, I guess I first should write a "Einschreiben mit Rueckschein" to them, asking for source 2012-10-13 01:42 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 01:59 aisa has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-10-13 02:09 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 2012-10-13 02:30 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 02:32 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 02:46 guanucoluis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-13 03:01 DocScrutinizer05: http://irclog.whitequark.org is updated instantly :) 2012-10-13 03:04 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-10-13 03:04 DocScrutinizer06 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 04:12 DocScrutinizer06: could you make it so IP addresses are not logged? 2012-10-13 04:14 DocScrutinizer06: generally, logging an irc channel and making it public without letting anyone know is not ethical (as in irc ethics) 2012-10-13 04:14 i know it's logged by qi-hw and whitequark, and i know that these logs don't contain personal information 2012-10-13 06:14 cladamw has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2012-10-13 06:40 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 06:59 Hoolxi has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 07:03 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-10-13 07:03 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 07:03 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2012-10-13 07:03 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 07:26 [commit] kyak: uboot-xburst: fix dl url, add md5sum (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/490004f 2012-10-13 08:50 kristoffer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 09:16 Jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 09:32 jluis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-13 09:40 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 10:44 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-10-13 11:09 kyak: while I partially understand your concerns, I can't change anything with infobot's logging. Just like I can't change how qibot logs. Anyway rhe fact that this channel is logged actually _is_ announced in topic, I don't think we could or need to list every log or guarantee that certain info is _not_ logged. There are other ways on (freenode) IRC to take care about your privacy if you're concerned 2012-10-13 11:27 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 12:01 it's an open channel and storage is cheap. i don't think there's any reason to assume it's not logged by NSA, KGB, and so on, quite independently from what qi-bot and friends do. 2012-10-13 12:11 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 12:13 wpwrak: kyak is right about general freenode policy somewhat dicourrages chan logging, and requires announcing any logging. I'm not entirely in line with this sentiment, but will happily follow requirement for log-warning in chan topic. But that's it 2012-10-13 12:16 since there are a lot of self-nominated 'services' that sneak in aribrary IRC channels with their bots, to log them publicly, and they do so without any announcement, I think the warning/info about QiBot logs in topic, plus naming infobot like that, plus making infobot standing out in chanuser list by giving it +v, plus ~logs, is just good enough for everybody. after all you're right that this is a public channel 2012-10-13 12:18 obviously kyak knows how to hide his IP and take care about his privacy, as everybody can tell from /whois kyak. Those IRC users who care less about those things maybe don't need somebody to fight for their rights 2012-10-13 12:19 DocScrutinizer06 is now known as DocScrutinizer05 2012-10-13 12:25 wpwrak: aiui those concerned about logging are so because of "google'ability" of what's been said and "done" in IRC channels. I have a hard time adopting this rationale. 2012-10-13 12:48 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2012-10-13 13:02 in the end, it all gets lost in the noise 2012-10-13 13:03 it's only a problem when there are very few people who get exposed that way. once a google search will find a bunch of atrocities for just anyone, it gets irrelevant 2012-10-13 13:11 otoh being able to google the actual ip history of somebody may be problematic (but then, if somebody is following you he might as well whois you) 2012-10-13 13:31 well, you may want to use an anonymizer when discussing the plans for overthrowing the government with your fellow conspirators. especially when approaching the implementation phase :) 2012-10-13 13:32 that's simpler than trying to stay 100% undercover. and also less suspicious :) 2012-10-13 13:32 just make sure the anonymizer is immune to traffic analysis 2012-10-13 13:35 i think it was discussed already in this channel 2012-10-13 13:35 and wolfgang even did some extra job to remove personal information from existing logs 2012-10-13 13:36 DocScrutinizer05: you are saying you have no control over logs, but it's your bot and your responsibility 2012-10-13 13:36 kyak: that's outright incorrect 2012-10-13 13:36 it's neither my bot nor do I have any control whatsoever over logs it creates 2012-10-13 13:36 you said "I can't change anything with infobot's logging." 2012-10-13 13:37 whos bot is that? 2012-10-13 13:37 [2012-10-13 15:37:15] [Whois] infobot ist ~infobot@rikers.org (TimRiker's infobot) 2012-10-13 13:37 ok, then i don't know what is the reason for this bot to be here 2012-10-13 13:38 which is more in line with freenode's requirements about bots than what qi-bot announces 2012-10-13 13:39 infobot was kicked from #qi-hardware by ChanServ [User is banned from this channel] 2012-10-13 13:39 kyak set flags +b on apt. 2012-10-13 13:39 kyak: the reason is that some chan users thought it's a good idea to have it here, mainly for its factoid database, and assumed chan owner appreciated it 2012-10-13 13:39 dafaq!!! 2012-10-13 13:39 i think the problem is solved now, thank you 2012-10-13 13:39 kyak: that's extremely nasty 2012-10-13 13:40 no need to discuss what's already been discussed and agreed 2012-10-13 13:40 * DocScrutinizer05 thinks kyak is rapidly approaching a state of insane rage, not appropriate for chanop 2012-10-13 13:41 no, i'm actually pretty calm. Just taking care about our users 2012-10-13 13:41 heberth_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 13:42 i set infobot to ignore a long time ago and don't worry much about the logs. problem solves ;-) 2012-10-13 13:42 banning a bot is not the suggested way to handle that stuff 2012-10-13 13:43 I'm in control over join lists for bot, and it's absolutely incorrect to ban a bot without discussing it with bot owner and/or the chan owner which is wolfspraul in my book 2012-10-13 13:43 this is uncontrolled bot, it should not be here. I can't ask his owner to stop logging/or not to log IP's 2012-10-13 13:43 bullshit 2012-10-13 13:43 you're spreading incorrect assumptions here 2012-10-13 13:44 * wpwrak brings a bundle of wood to the village square 2012-10-13 13:44 you're about to go mad with cahnop tduties 2012-10-13 13:46 wpwrak: for FBI/KGB.. they sure don't make their logs public 2012-10-13 13:46 i log this channel, too (and probably with IPs). But don't make them searchable on google 2012-10-13 13:47 so, where is the rule that suggests logging isn't supposed to log parts of the public info in a chan? 2012-10-13 13:47 you made that up 2012-10-13 13:47 it was agreed by users of this channel 2012-10-13 13:47 and actions were taken not to log sensitive information 2012-10-13 13:48 point me to the log saying so, please! 2012-10-13 13:48 kyak: correction: they make those parts public that look good in show trials 2012-10-13 13:48 timestamp just fine, since I also have private logs if the chan 2012-10-13 13:48 kyak: their PR departements insist on that :) 2012-10-13 13:49 * wpwrak too 2012-10-13 13:49 (logs) 2012-10-13 13:49 btw wtf is the sensitivity of an IP? 2012-10-13 13:49 when it's published every day in the chan anyway 2012-10-13 13:50 if it changes over time, then the old info is useless and obsolete anyway and googling for it is nonsense. If it's a static IP, then nobody needs to google for it since everybody can get the info 'live' from IRC 2012-10-13 13:50 if you choose a different persona on each site/environment/community you use, and your IP is relatively constant, then the IP could be used to reconstruct a larger part of your real identity 2012-10-13 13:51 also, if someone catches you doing something (e.g., file sharing) and all they have is your IP, then it may help them to identify you 2012-10-13 13:51 it's not IRC's nor logging bots' responsibility to take care about *that* niche case 2012-10-13 13:51 DocScrutinizer05: http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2010-08-11.log.html#t11:10 2012-10-13 13:52 if somebody does that, he's the only one responsible to hide his IP 2012-10-13 13:53 wolfspraul: could you please step in? 2012-10-13 13:53 DocScrutinizer05: well, it's called "defense in depth". you try to make things hard for an attacker at every point of the way. this won't protect you against a sufficient determined and resourceful foe but it can at least make you a very unattractive target 2012-10-13 13:53 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 13:53 kyak: i'll talk to Tim about disabling logging for #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 13:54 DocScrutinizer05: thanks 2012-10-13 13:54 np 2012-10-13 13:55 kyak set flags -Vbv on apt. 2012-10-13 13:56 kyak set flags +Vv on apt. 2012-10-13 14:25 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 14:25 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 14:51 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 15:10 Hoolxi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-13 15:18 kristoffer has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-10-13 15:18 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 15:27 kristianpaul has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-13 15:27 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 15:27 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2012-10-13 15:27 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 16:14 Jurting has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-10-13 16:23 guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 16:23 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 16:35 heberth_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-10-13 16:39 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 16:43 kyak: sorry, but you are insane. 2012-10-13 16:43 if you think that IP logging is an issue with privacy, I would take care to add another bot, which would explicitly disclose IPs. 2012-10-13 16:44 I've removed hostnames from my logs simply because they don't have any reason to stay there and distract attention from actual information. 2012-10-13 16:45 note that in the case that I would actually write that another bot, no countermeasures except for closing channel for the general public, could impose any restrictions on it. this is the whole principle of public channels. 2012-10-13 16:45 talking about this even further, the fact is that _freenode_ discloses IPs. There are plenty of irc servers around which don't. 2012-10-13 16:48 but those who want to hide it at freenode, can ask for hiding 2012-10-13 16:48 it's basically the same with saying things under your nickname 2012-10-13 16:49 it's your name and your words. it is actually very good that they are connected. creates responsibility. 2012-10-13 16:49 if you don't want your nickname to be associated with some words, don't use it 2012-10-13 16:49 if you don't want your IP... hide it, it's never been easier. 2012-10-13 16:50 viric: yeah, this is why I see nothing wrong with freenode. 2012-10-13 16:51 you could also set up rDNS for your IP, and then set up forward DNS for that record which won't match reverse one. just off my mind. 2012-10-13 16:51 if you don't mind about publishing the ip, it's even of help 2012-10-13 16:52 for p2p things maybe 2012-10-13 16:52 dcc, ctcp, ... 2012-10-13 16:52 whatever that is called 2012-10-13 16:56 it won't work in case of NAT anyway 2012-10-13 16:56 well 2012-10-13 16:56 nat can be clever 2012-10-13 16:56 not for irc-on-ssl :) 2012-10-13 16:56 though. 2012-10-13 16:56 Freemor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 16:56 it's generally stupid :) and I don't know anyone using those features anyway 2012-10-13 16:58 because file transfer between people has always been a nightmare 2012-10-13 17:00 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-10-13 17:01 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 17:01 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2012-10-13 17:01 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 17:02 Freemor has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-10-13 17:02 Freemor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 17:10 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 17:17 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 17:26 Freemor has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-10-13 18:42 guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 18:57 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-10-13 19:03 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 19:03 lekernel_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 19:06 nikescar has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 19:15 heberth_2 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 19:43 hellekin has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 20:30 heberth_2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-10-13 21:57 guanucoluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 22:04 guanucoluis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-10-13 22:04 whitequark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 2012-10-13 22:06 whitequark has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 22:33 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-10-13 22:48 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-10-13 23:06 nikescar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-10-13 23:08 nikescar has joined #qi-hardware 2012-10-13 23:46 urandom__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]