2012-09-23 01:04 fire_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 01:12 Ayla is now known as AwAyla 2012-09-23 01:16 emeb has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-09-23 01:47 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-09-23 01:48 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 01:49 fire_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 2012-09-23 02:01 nikescar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-09-23 02:02 nikescar has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 02:10 freakazoid0223 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-09-23 02:23 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 02:57 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-09-23 02:57 fire_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 02:58 guanucoluis1 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 02:59 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 03:10 cladamw has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2012-09-23 03:18 pabs3 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-09-23 03:38 guanucoluis1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 03:45 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-09-23 03:45 DocScrutinizer06 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 03:46 pabs3 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 03:56 DocScrutinizer06 is now known as DocScrutinizer05 2012-09-23 03:58 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-09-23 03:58 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 04:07 fire_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 2012-09-23 05:40 Hoolxi has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 06:52 rozzin has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-09-23 06:52 gdm has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-09-23 06:52 roh has quit [*.net *.split] 2012-09-23 07:10 rozzin has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 07:10 roh has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 07:10 gdm has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 07:19 kristoffer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 07:40 AwAyla has quit [Quit: dodo] 2012-09-23 08:04 lekernel_ is now known as lekernel 2012-09-23 08:21 scientes has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 08:54 scientes has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-09-23 09:08 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 09:34 Hoolxi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-09-23 10:35 porchaso0 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 10:36 porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 11:11 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 11:11 kristoffer has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 2012-09-23 11:50 Jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 11:51 damn, this sheevapug tells me that reading /dev/mem is an operation not permitted 2012-09-23 11:52 ah only the specific register offset. 2012-09-23 11:52 wpwrak: that's why you wrote once a program that mmaps and reads or modifies a register, isn't it? mmap may work 2012-09-23 11:56 you can mmap() /dev/mem 2012-09-23 11:56 I think that's the way it's supposed to be used 2012-09-23 11:56 alexander has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 11:57 Anyone tried out http://delysid.org/tuneit.html ? 2012-09-23 11:57 alexander is now known as Guest65339 2012-09-23 12:11 Jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2012-09-23 12:11 Jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 12:16 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 12:38 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 12:57 Fallenou: ok 2012-09-23 13:04 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 13:07 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 13:40 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-09-23 13:41 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-09-23 13:41 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 13:50 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-09-23 13:50 viric: my program uses mmap, yes. it's here: http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/poke/ 2012-09-23 13:51 and i have at ton more programs that do similar things. some are in the ben-blinkenlights project 2012-09-23 13:53 :) ok 2012-09-23 13:53 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 13:55 normal. 2012-09-23 13:55 I was just trying to find accessible gpìo in the sheevaplug schematics, playing with some 'efuse' things there... 2012-09-23 13:56 what do you think of the sheevaplug initiative by globalscale, with open source, schematics, bom, layouts, cam files... 2012-09-23 13:56 ? 2012-09-23 13:56 do you find the marvell pieces too hidden? 2012-09-23 13:57 oh, no idea. haven't paid much attention to the sheevaplug. 2012-09-23 13:58 if they publish all that, then it would certainly sounds a like a good thing 2012-09-23 13:58 ah ok 2012-09-23 13:58 they did, and since years ago 2012-09-23 13:58 fire_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 13:58 I'm using the sheevaplug since long 2012-09-23 13:58 http://www.plugcomputer.org/downloads/plug-basic/ 2012-09-23 13:58 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 13:59 ^that's for the one I own 2012-09-23 13:59 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 13:59 wpwrak: if you ever need a low power server, you could support them by buying one :) 2012-09-23 14:00 I'd like to know how many blobs they have around 2012-09-23 14:02 mh their wifi seems to have blobs: http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/libertas (same as OLPC) 2012-09-23 14:05 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-09-23 14:06 for "low-power servers", i have a bunch of linksys wireless routers :) and most of the wallwart-type devices probably don't have the right plug for argentina (or australia) anyway. the sheevaplug is among them. 2012-09-23 14:06 ah well 2012-09-23 14:06 the sheevaplug has 512MB of flash and 512MB of RAM 2012-09-23 14:07 and 1.2GHz. That bands out all linksys routers 2012-09-23 14:07 i do use the ben a lot, though. with the 8:10 card slot, it's perfect for talking to DIY electronics :) 2012-09-23 14:07 sure; the sheevaplug isn't that good for electronics; I can't find a single gpio pin with a connector. 2012-09-23 14:08 And the sheevaplug is sold with 3 power connectors (european, US, and british) 2012-09-23 14:09 neither of which looks even remotely like ar/au :) 2012-09-23 14:09 but 2012-09-23 14:10 the 'sheevaplug' side is a usual connector 2012-09-23 14:10 viric: they also die faster than any router 2012-09-23 14:10 http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/images/img_0007s.jpg 2012-09-23 14:10 roh: bah, the stupid power supply. But you can replace it with a $6 external supply, 5A 3A. 2012-09-23 14:10 5V 3A 2012-09-23 14:11 viric: ah, okay. so one could use a cable. or, with luck, find a fitting adapter 2012-09-23 14:11 viric: well.. rather buy hardware with no broken psu and heat concept. 2012-09-23 14:11 roh: they overheat only at 220V iirc 2012-09-23 14:11 I think 120V countries are happy :) 2012-09-23 14:12 still fail. 2012-09-23 14:12 what still fails? 2012-09-23 14:12 no. i meant its a fail. 2012-09-23 14:12 broken design. 2012-09-23 14:12 ah yes 2012-09-23 14:12 sure. 2012-09-23 14:12 but you can open and fix it. 2012-09-23 14:13 also the nanonote has a bad speaker volume. 2012-09-23 14:13 and since i know that also the psu of other devices die over time... i'd rather use one with either a proper one or no internal one. especially if i want to leave them unattended 2012-09-23 14:14 it's very easy to remove the internal power supply 2012-09-23 14:14 http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/images/img_0008s.jpg 2012-09-23 14:15 What was available at the time of the sheevaplug appearance, that could perform similarly? 2012-09-23 14:15 The plug had big advantages about many devices of its time 2012-09-23 14:16 actually i dont like the case at all. 2012-09-23 14:16 :) 2012-09-23 14:16 especially since i do not want mechanical strain on power sockets. a psu which is directly on the plug is seldomly a good idea 2012-09-23 14:17 It comes with both a direct wall-plug connector, and with a cable. 2012-09-23 14:17 (in the package) 2012-09-23 14:18 but I see you have a personal trouble with it. I won't insist. :) 2012-09-23 14:19 Ayla has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2012-09-23 14:20 yes. its just a very bad design. without a proper usecase which it can do really good. 2012-09-23 14:20 I know three people who own them, people who don't deal with embedded devices usually, and they are very happy with it as a home usual linux server, where they deploy their public services 2012-09-23 14:21 if you use its cpu, it gets really hot and dies. if you want stability.. its no good because of the overheating psu again.. it has a harddisk-connector, but no space for a harddisk.. its completely not-thought-through in my opinion 2012-09-23 14:21 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 14:21 People who have not bought any other open hw 2012-09-23 14:21 I use the cpu 2012-09-23 14:21 and with its flaws it should simply not be built till they are fixed (atleast the heat and reliability issues) 2012-09-23 14:21 The psu I have replaced. Mine builds a lot, like a build farm, cpu 100% often 2012-09-23 14:22 I mean... 90% of the day at 100% cpu 2012-09-23 14:22 all with a usb hd. All fine. Some of my friends use it with a SD card. 2012-09-23 14:22 hi, what about the dreamplug? 2012-09-23 14:22 GNUtoo-desktop: I find it expensive. 2012-09-23 14:22 And provides little over the sheevaplug, for my taste 2012-09-23 14:23 ok, can it do hostapd? 2012-09-23 14:23 I think so 2012-09-23 14:23 it has the same wifi board as the olpc 2012-09-23 14:23 ok so it's libertas 2012-09-23 14:24 yes 2012-09-23 14:24 I was unsure about that 2012-09-23 14:24 then if I buy one I backport libertas_tf_sdio and it would work 2012-09-23 14:24 hm in fact I talk about the guruplug wifi card. I expect the dreamplug has the same. 2012-09-23 14:24 ah ok 2012-09-23 14:24 GNUtoo-desktop: I'm not sure it's _sdio, or _usb. 2012-09-23 14:24 I need to verify that's it's compatible with libertas_tf_sdio 2012-09-23 14:24 which is not in mainline 2012-09-23 14:25 but for instance there are newer drivers for marvell 2012-09-23 14:25 that probably lacks AP 2012-09-23 14:25 you seem to know better than I :) 2012-09-23 14:26 yes but I'm unsure if they changed the wifi chip at some point or exactly what chip it is 2012-09-23 14:26 ah 2012-09-23 14:27 basically if it works with libertas_sdio it works with libertas_tf_sdio 2012-09-23 14:27 but only libertas_tf_sdio provides AP 2012-09-23 14:27 and the tf_sdio version is not in mainline 2012-09-23 14:27 somehow I think it'll be _usb 2012-09-23 14:29 porchaso0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-09-23 14:31 heberth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 14:31 well.. its seems i should stay with different hw for what i need in services at home. 2012-09-23 14:32 GNUtoo-desktop: the little references I find, indicate that people configure the kernels as guruplug 2012-09-23 14:36 ok let me look.... 2012-09-23 14:36 GNUtoo-desktop: http://www.plugcomputer.org/405/us/guru-plug/kernel/uImage-guruplug.config guruplug is libertas_sdio 2012-09-23 14:36 ah they use devicetree 2012-09-23 14:37 ok 2012-09-23 14:37 devicetree? 2012-09-23 14:37 I was looking in mainline 2012-09-23 14:37 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 14:37 as you probably know arch/arm/config doesn't scale 2012-09-23 14:37 *configs 2012-09-23 14:37 so they came up with a new system to replace the board init c files 2012-09-23 14:37 it's called devicetree 2012-09-23 14:38 s/new/I mean that using device tree for arm is new, not that device tree is new 2012-09-23 14:39 oops 2012-09-23 14:39 I said wrong stuff 2012-09-23 14:39 ah 2012-09-23 14:39 I meant it's to replace C files like board-kirkwood.c 2012-09-23 14:39 fire_ is now known as nerd 2012-09-23 14:39 not the config 2012-09-23 14:39 is it upstream? 2012-09-23 14:39 yes 2012-09-23 14:39 since when? 2012-09-23 14:40 since recently 2012-09-23 14:40 3.4? 2012-09-23 14:40 arch/arm/boot/dts 2012-09-23 14:40 git log and see 2012-09-23 14:40 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-09-23 14:40 ah ok 2012-09-23 14:41 I wasn't aware. 2012-09-23 14:42 since june 2011 in fact 2012-09-23 14:43 I never understood much about initializing complex boards 2012-09-23 14:43 ok 2012-09-23 14:43 I did board init already 2012-09-23 14:44 but not from scratch 2012-09-23 14:44 basically I took old code and ported it to mainline 2012-09-23 14:44 and also did device tree for the same device 2012-09-23 14:45 basically I had to md the memory reagion of the printk buffer to see logs in uboot 2012-09-23 14:46 btw what else could replace a dreamplug? 2012-09-23 14:46 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 14:46 it needs to be compact.... 2012-09-23 14:46 is there any compact x86 with PCI? 2012-09-23 14:46 ah nice. 2012-09-23 14:47 maybe I should look in coreboot-supported boards 2012-09-23 14:47 there are pico-itx atom boards and so 2012-09-23 14:47 ok 2012-09-23 14:47 but I know very little about these things :) 2012-09-23 14:48 ok 2012-09-23 14:48 pci, to hold any pci card? 2012-09-23 14:48 yes 2012-09-23 14:48 I prefer ath9k chips 2012-09-23 14:48 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 14:48 ah, can be that minipci of laptops and so 2012-09-23 14:49 a simple search pointed me to http://www.portwell.com/products/detail.asp?CUSTCHAR1=NANO-8044 2012-09-23 14:51 yes at think penguin they sell ath9k minipci 2012-09-23 14:51 I guess it uses a BIOS tough 2012-09-23 14:52 I try to avoid that if possible 2012-09-23 14:52 dptech has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 14:53 x86 board without bios? 2012-09-23 14:53 that won't be very popular :) 2012-09-23 14:53 GNUtoo-desktop: what do you want PCI for? 2012-09-23 14:54 wifi ath9k card 2012-09-23 14:55 GNUtoo-desktop: I think we use miniPCIe 2012-09-23 14:55 GNUtoo-desktop: with http://www.pcengines.ch/alix6b2.htm 2012-09-23 14:55 ok 2012-09-23 14:55 hmm, not that exact model I think 2012-09-23 14:55 is that compatible with v4? 2012-09-23 14:56 viric, chromebook have no BIOS either 2012-09-23 14:56 GNUtoo-desktop: v4? 2012-09-23 14:56 ok 2012-09-23 14:56 it's compatible with v3 at least? 2012-09-23 14:56 that's some PCIe version number? 2012-09-23 14:56 coreboot v4 2012-09-23 14:56 GNUtoo-desktop: ah, no idea 2012-09-23 14:56 I've already a coreboot desktop btw 2012-09-23 14:57 I had a coreboot laptop until I rebooted also 2012-09-23 14:57 GNUtoo-desktop: did you need to buy some server motherboard? 2012-09-23 14:57 lindi-, no, I did the port on my desktop 2012-09-23 14:58 for the laptop I'm waiting for the pomona clips for recovering it 2012-09-23 14:58 GNUtoo-desktop: hmm, that sounds potentially buggy :) 2012-09-23 14:58 (I was told I could reboot after bucts 0 which wasn't true) 2012-09-23 14:58 what would be potentially buggy? 2012-09-23 14:58 GNUtoo-desktop: being one of the first users of coreboot on that hardware 2012-09-23 14:59 ah ok 2012-09-23 14:59 I dreamed of having coreboot hardware for years..... 2012-09-23 14:59 GNUtoo-desktop: do you have vendor and product name from DMI? 2012-09-23 15:00 then I found that m4a785-m was supported 2012-09-23 15:00 and I had m4a785-t-m 2012-09-23 15:00 cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_name 2012-09-23 15:00 so I did the port 2012-09-23 15:00 M4A785T-M 2012-09-23 15:00 hmm, smolts.org is down today :( 2012-09-23 15:01 Vendor: coreboot 2012-09-23 15:01 from dmidecode 2012-09-23 15:01 I've still some stuff to fix but I'm mostly happy 2012-09-23 15:01 porchao has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 2012-09-23 15:02 sounds promising then 2012-09-23 15:02 like x86_64 usb init issues => I use x86_not-64 2012-09-23 15:02 last time I looked there wasn't anything easily available that'd be well supported 2012-09-23 15:02 and I also use the internal graphic card 2012-09-23 15:02 however I've 4G of ram..... 2012-09-23 15:02 we fixed that 2012-09-23 15:02 and it was hard.... 2012-09-23 15:03 and graphics works flawlessly 2012-09-23 15:03 basically what doesn't work is suff that I didn't use or worked arround 2012-09-23 15:03 ok 2012-09-23 15:04 http://www.coreboot.org/ASUS_M4A785T-M 2012-09-23 15:04 I should update and says that 4G works 2012-09-23 15:04 and put a new hash 2012-09-23 15:04 even 4 GB is not that much nowadays 2012-09-23 15:05 but it's still enough for most stuff of course 2012-09-23 15:06 4G is enough for me for now 2012-09-23 15:06 linking webkit uses swap tough 2012-09-23 15:06 with gold? 2012-09-23 15:06 a few virtual machines and it starts to feel really tiny 2012-09-23 15:07 nerd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 2012-09-23 15:07 ok 2012-09-23 15:08 vm are for servers tough 2012-09-23 15:09 I use coreboot on my desktop 2012-09-23 15:09 GNUtoo-desktop: yeah unless you use qubes on your desktop :) 2012-09-23 15:09 lol ok 2012-09-23 15:10 I don't need to isolate proprietary stuff anyway 2012-09-23 15:10 What is the status of QEMU for the NN? The link in the mailing list is dead. 2012-09-23 15:10 since I don't use any(apart the CPU microcode and the VGA option rom) 2012-09-23 15:10 I'm not even sure if I use the microcode or not 2012-09-23 15:10 GNUtoo-desktop: qubes is for much more than just isolating non-free stuff 2012-09-23 15:15 do you use serial ports in the PC much? 2012-09-23 15:16 I somehow think that the uart driver is broken in recent kernels 2012-09-23 15:16 with stty, I end up often with I/O Error on /dev/ttyS= 2012-09-23 15:16 ttyS0 2012-09-23 15:16 fixed only if I reboot 2012-09-23 15:16 viric, what computer? 2012-09-23 15:16 a PC 2012-09-23 15:16 It happened to me in two computers. A pentium IV and a phenom II 2012-09-23 15:16 because I've no issues at all with my m4a785-t-m reguarding serial 2012-09-23 15:17 I run that kernel: 2012-09-23 15:17 3.4 and 3.5 kernels 2012-09-23 15:17 Linux gnutoo-desktop 3.0.0-24-generic-pae #5trisquel1 SMP Sun Aug 12 12:48:43 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux 2012-09-23 15:17 ah ok 2012-09-23 15:17 but I simply didn't play much with the serial between 2.6.30 and 3.0 2012-09-23 15:17 so I can't tell. 2012-09-23 15:17 ok 2012-09-23 15:18 I use the serial for doing coreboot developement so I know it works for me 2012-09-23 15:18 'i686 athlon i386' ? :) 2012-09-23 15:18 model name : AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor 2012-09-23 15:18 you use it from linux userspace? What's at the other end? 2012-09-23 15:19 what do you mean? 2012-09-23 15:19 the other computer 2012-09-23 15:19 ok 2012-09-23 15:19 xiangfu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-09-23 15:19 whatever silent laptop running trisquel too 2012-09-23 15:19 with big enough screen preferably 2012-09-23 15:19 using picocom 2012-09-23 15:19 I don't know; with usb serial adapters, I never get I/O error 2012-09-23 15:19 but with the mainboard serial, I do. 2012-09-23 15:19 I've coreboot<->laptop with laptop beeing usb-serial 2012-09-23 15:20 ok 2012-09-23 15:25 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 15:27 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 15:32 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-09-23 15:32 DocScrutinizer06 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 15:44 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 15:45 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-09-23 15:46 Hi! 2012-09-23 15:46 heberth has quit [Quit: leaving] 2012-09-23 15:50 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 15:53 DocScrutinizer06 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 16:02 LunaVorax has quit [Quit: Quitte] 2012-09-23 16:02 heberth has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 16:03 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 16:23 dptech has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 2012-09-23 16:23 dptech has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 16:47 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 18:02 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 18:14 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 18:41 dptech has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 2012-09-23 19:19 jluis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 19:31 LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-09-23 19:33 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 19:36 fire_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 19:41 fire_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 2012-09-23 19:44 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 20:07 kristoffer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 20:17 qwebirc9666 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 20:17 qwebirc9666 is now known as diginet 2012-09-23 20:17 hello 2012-09-23 20:19 so I was thinking, what would it take to create a truly open workstation, that was at least on par with something, from say, early to mid 2000s (so at least usable today) 2012-09-23 20:20 You could start with OpenSPARC or LEON, the OpenGraphics OGC1, wishbone bus, the various peripherals on open cores for ethernet and USB. 2012-09-23 20:20 you'd probably need something for sound, there's an opencores clones of a TI DSP that could work 2012-09-23 20:21 I realise this would be by no means easy, but aside from the cost of manufacturing the boards and sourcing the ASICs, how feasible would it be to realize this? 2012-09-23 20:21 fire_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 20:21 by who? 2012-09-23 20:21 or you mean, how feasible is it, to find someone to do all this? 2012-09-23 20:21 I dunno, a hobbyist 2012-09-23 20:21 fire_ has quit [Client Quit] 2012-09-23 20:22 lekernel: 2012-09-23 20:22 lekernel can answer better 2012-09-23 20:22 What I mean is, based on what we have, how possible would it be for a small team to put something together? 2012-09-23 20:22 depends a lot on the small team 2012-09-23 20:22 I just mean the design, not negotiating the manufacture or whatever 2012-09-23 20:23 5 or so people with a good knowledge of HDL and hardware 2012-09-23 20:23 I'm trolling a bit, but sometimes it matters more to find the people who are ready to do something. 2012-09-23 20:23 diginet: rather start with LM32 (best performance/area of all open source CPUs) and the milkymist tmu (which has a lot of advance on the opengraphics fpga design) 2012-09-23 20:23 diginet: but anyway, if technical problems don't kill you, marketing will 2012-09-23 20:23 lekernel: yeah, I know 2012-09-23 20:24 lekernel, assuming the the TMU were put into custom silicon, how could it compare, with say, the a graphics chip in smartphones these days? It isn't 3D is it? 2012-09-23 20:24 luckily there is a number of freedom-fans with money. 2012-09-23 20:24 diginet: and don't count on the hacker/maker community, all they understand is arduino makerbot and raspberry pi 2012-09-23 20:24 lekernel: don't get me started on arduino and makerbot 2012-09-23 20:24 lekernel: haha 2012-09-23 20:25 Makerbot is made up of a bunch of panhandling charlatans 2012-09-23 20:25 I guess I'm missing something, but outside of the context of their original purpose, I don't see the value in making plastic pieces of junk 2012-09-23 20:25 diginet: it's not 3d, no, and several other features are missing. I don't know how the performance compares. 2012-09-23 20:25 lekernel: IMO the "maker community" is acceptable for poplism, obviously not for real work 2012-09-23 20:26 lekernel: don't be negative like that :/ 2012-09-23 20:26 *populism 2012-09-23 20:26 lekernel: the OGC1 has 3D, that's why I suggested it 2012-09-23 20:26 does the LM32 really beat out Leon though? 2012-09-23 20:26 lekernel: i.e. show arduino to 10k people, 3 of them will maybe become good EEs. not sure if it works like that, through. 2012-09-23 20:26 what is the predicted clock speed for, say, a 90nm ASIC 2012-09-23 20:27 well there is no LM32 asic yet 2012-09-23 20:27 diginet: last time I checked... they only *claimed* to have 3D. and only a basic framebuffer worked ... 2012-09-23 20:27 I know 2012-09-23 20:27 but there is LEON asic 2012-09-23 20:27 when I checked OGC1, it was all very preliminar. 2012-09-23 20:27 whitequark: I hate how people think arduino is a replacement for an MCU, I see people using it in the most asinine scenarios 2012-09-23 20:27 viric: you could be right 2012-09-23 20:27 diginet: yes, LM32 has more performance/LUT than LEON in FPGAs 2012-09-23 20:28 diginet: I'd rather say they think it's the only MCU in the world, but yes 2012-09-23 20:28 I know nothing of the architecture, is it fairly standard RISC? 2012-09-23 20:28 yes, it's a very straightforward RISC 2012-09-23 20:28 whitequark: I literally saw a guy who used 6 arduinos to blink an array of LEDs 2012-09-23 20:28 diginet: yeah, happens all the time 2012-09-23 20:29 http://hackaday.com/2012/03/07/adding-a-lot-of-twinkle-to-this-rebar-sculpture/ 2012-09-23 20:29 well, it's described on its website as a tool for artists 2012-09-23 20:29 the douche is strong with this one 2012-09-23 20:29 i.e. non-techie people. I think it perfectly fits its goal. 2012-09-23 20:29 an artist doesn't, won't and shouldn't care about the MCUs or whatnot 2012-09-23 20:29 kristoffer has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-09-23 20:29 re. LEON they might release an optimized version in the next years. might compete with or beat LM32... but it's not out yet. 2012-09-23 20:29 I'm just sick of the attention whores who derail actual discussion 2012-09-23 20:29 lekernel: LM32 is used in M1 right? 2012-09-23 20:29 yes 2012-09-23 20:29 what is the clock speed on the M1? 2012-09-23 20:30 80MHz 2012-09-23 20:30 is LM32 competitive with ARM in terms of MIPS/Mhz? 2012-09-23 20:30 I think so 2012-09-23 20:31 at least with ARM7... of course the superscalar cores are faster 2012-09-23 20:31 LM32 isn't superscalar? 2012-09-23 20:31 no, it's a regular 6-stage pipelined RISC 2012-09-23 20:31 what about OpenSPARC T2? 2012-09-23 20:31 opensparc is super large 2012-09-23 20:32 iirc it's not superscalar either 2012-09-23 20:32 to be fair a lot of that is all the crypto stuff 2012-09-23 20:32 but you need a $500+ FPGA to use it 2012-09-23 20:33 at the same mhz, how would a T2 core compare to a cortex-A9 2012-09-23 20:33 MHz please :) 2012-09-23 20:33 and it's frequency 2012-09-23 20:34 are you really considering building an ASIC ? 2012-09-23 20:34 do you have the money for this ? 2012-09-23 20:34 no, I'm just thinking about it 2012-09-23 20:34 dunno... check http://www.spec.org/ http://www.eecs.umich.edu/mibench/ 2012-09-23 20:34 or pondering 2012-09-23 20:35 I'm just weird, I like to think about hypothetical projects 2012-09-23 20:35 for possible funding? :) 2012-09-23 20:36 with the right connections in research/academia, you can get ASICs done for free... 2012-09-23 20:36 describe your project and put it on kickstarter ;) 2012-09-23 20:37 but why would anyone do something like that? there are LEON ASICs, free hardware, and no one gives a crap outside the aerospace industry 2012-09-23 20:37 I hate kickstarter though 2012-09-23 20:38 yes I would say use LEON asic 2012-09-23 20:38 it's already made 2012-09-23 20:38 viric, no I'm not talking about this with the intent of making it, I just think its interesting 2012-09-23 20:38 yeah, but it's slow 2012-09-23 20:38 200mhz 2012-09-23 20:38 aouch 2012-09-23 20:38 and probably inordinately expensive for what you get 2012-09-23 20:38 you can have 200 MHz LM32 on Kintex 7 :p 2012-09-23 20:38 LeonV4 is supposed to go up to 1500mhz at 90nm' 2012-09-23 20:39 Fallenou: hey, not bad! 2012-09-23 20:39 rhombus-tech maybe in the future they can fund something? 2012-09-23 20:41 if I had unlimited funds, my dream would be something like the openpandora or clamshell zaurus, in terms of form factor, but with totally free hardware inside 2012-09-23 20:41 kickstarter is hardcore liberalism. and it makes one thing clear: this approach doesn't encourage great open technology. e.g. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joylabs/makey-makey-an-invention-kit-for-everyone vs. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1091976372/open-source-5-axis-cnc-router-and-plasma-machine-p 2012-09-23 20:42 lekernel: yep. 2012-09-23 20:42 I just hate it because of all the stupid hipsters on there 2012-09-23 20:42 and idiots in general 2012-09-23 20:43 something which isn't easily digestible by people who know nothing about electronics will never be funded 2012-09-23 20:43 lekernel: the bananas keyboard example can make any engineer with helpful projects sad. 2012-09-23 20:43 thus why the particularly egregious space elevator project got half a million in funding 2012-09-23 20:44 people are interested in nonsense like that Ouya thing 2012-09-23 20:44 or uninteresting raspberry pi esque stupidity 2012-09-23 20:45 plus, I just don't like the panhandling nature of it 2012-09-23 20:45 I knew I would start yet another kickstarter troll :p 2012-09-23 20:45 sorry for the topic switch 2012-09-23 20:47 sorry, sorry, I just hate it 2012-09-23 20:47 anyway, the problem with stuff that's even nominally "open" like the Pandora are the lack of drivers for half the stuff in the OMAP 2012-09-23 20:47 like the DSPs and HW acceleration 2012-09-23 20:48 if they exist, they're horribly buggy binary blobs 2012-09-23 20:48 Maybe there could be some committee ceryifying openness 2012-09-23 20:48 forget about omap, there is nothing open inside 2012-09-23 20:48 yeah 2012-09-23 20:48 Like there is for "ecological agriculture", or "fair trade" 2012-09-23 20:49 ouya is just a game in personal connections 2012-09-23 20:49 the thing that bothers me though is this, there are companies which make chips that are well documented, but what happens when they stop manufacturing them? You can't source your own. 2012-09-23 20:49 http://www.linkedin.com/in/julieuhrman 2012-09-23 20:49 even though it's expensive, if gaisler went out of business, if I had to, I could acquire a LEON asic 2012-09-23 20:49 by sourcing my own 2012-09-23 20:50 But even some people don't consider FSF any good about software/hardware freedom 2012-09-23 20:50 rms isn't a fan of OHW last time I checked 2012-09-23 20:50 then again, I'm not a fan of him 2012-09-23 20:50 :) 2012-09-23 20:50 And the licences? 2012-09-23 20:50 my favourite is zlib 2012-09-23 20:50 ok 2012-09-23 20:51 the problem is, FOSS is all for naught if you have no control over the hardware it runs on 2012-09-23 20:51 rms was using one of those fuloong computers 2012-09-23 20:51 yeloong 2012-09-23 20:51 just for the bios, iirc 2012-09-23 20:51 yeeloong 2012-09-23 20:51 he's a nut 2012-09-23 20:51 haha 2012-09-23 20:52 he stopped using the OLPC because the organization looked at Windows 2012-09-23 20:52 yes, just because they looked 2012-09-23 20:52 I like the idea of free software, but I hate his politics 2012-09-23 20:52 well, FSF is one thing, he is another 2012-09-23 20:52 I prefer my own term: public source software 2012-09-23 20:53 anyway, to me the major difficulty is how to design a GPU that isn't worthless 2012-09-23 20:54 one idea I had was to scrap the idea of a dedicated GPU altogether, and include a more general vector coprocessor 2012-09-23 20:54 the design could be based on the Crays 2012-09-23 20:54 (if one needed inspiration) 2012-09-23 20:55 diginet: use migen flow :) 2012-09-23 20:55 fire_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 20:57 migen flow? 2012-09-23 20:57 diginet: I think you might have some success cloning Mali-400 2012-09-23 20:57 from what I know it's a decent GPU, simple and powerful 2012-09-23 20:57 really? 2012-09-23 20:58 wouldn't I be violating patents or something? 2012-09-23 20:58 http://milkymist.org/3/migen.html - but I must say, it's still quite early, and you need some design experience to be really productive with it 2012-09-23 20:58 from the architectural point of view, not precise implementation 2012-09-23 20:58 I bet you'll violate some of the patents even if you'll make a clean-room design 2012-09-23 20:58 but it is/will be the best tool I can think of to design a GPU 2012-09-23 20:59 yeah 2012-09-23 20:59 going backwards somewhat, another idea I've had, that is much less absurd, is designing a sort of ultimate 2D game console 2012-09-23 21:00 I've looked at things to do homebrew for, SNES, GBA, Neo Geo, but they're all lacking in some way or another, not the least being finite supply of hardware 2012-09-23 21:00 Ayla has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2012-09-23 21:01 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-09-23 21:02 i.e. something at parity with the Sega Saturn (albeit, minus the tacked on 3D stuff which I don't care about) 2012-09-23 21:03 fire_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 2012-09-23 21:03 I imagine something which meets those requirements would be a whole lot cheaper to source 2012-09-23 21:04