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2012-08-29 01:09 <qi-bot> The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120827-2243
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2012-08-29 11:22 <larsc> mth: to be honest I have no idea, I guess it does this because everybody else does it as well
2012-08-29 11:43 <mth> that was exactly my reason for doing it for the JZ4770 :)
2012-08-29 11:44 <wpwrak> cargo cult programming at its finest ;-)
2012-08-29 11:45 <wpwrak> (and no, i don't know either :)
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2012-08-29 12:20 <whitequark> wpwrak: just like the cache tricks magic in the initialization code
2012-08-29 12:20 <whitequark> I've stripped them and nothing has changed
2012-08-29 12:21 <wpwrak> those mistreated caches will wait for you in the afterlife ;-)
2012-08-29 12:21 <whitequark> haha
2012-08-29 12:22 * whitequark imagines several poor cache lines in the Charon's boat
2012-08-29 12:46 <mth> gdb aborts the process I'm debugging because it allegedly receives signal 128 pretty close to startup
2012-08-29 12:46 <mth> but if I run the process outside gdb it starts up fine, the thing I'm debugging happens much later
2012-08-29 12:46 <mth> and there doesn't seem to be a singal 128
2012-08-29 12:46 <mth> s/singal/signal
2012-08-29 12:46 <qi-bot> mth meant: "and there doesn't seem to be a signal 128"
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2012-08-29 13:12 <mth> maybe gdb is seeing ghosts: the signal does not come from __send_signal in the kernel
2012-08-29 13:13 <mth> could it be a tortured cache line?
2012-08-29 13:14 <DocScrutinizer51> is that process maybe skype? ;-P
2012-08-29 13:14 <mth> no, gmenu2x
2012-08-29 13:30 <mth> it is certainly something inside gdb: when trying to attach to a non-existing pid, the same "signal" occurs
2012-08-29 13:33 <lindi-> mth: on ARM?
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2012-08-29 13:35 <mth> on MIPS: JZ4770
2012-08-29 13:35 <Fallenou> wolfspraul: I've just read an email from you dating from 2009 about marvell combo chip 88w8688 , do you have more intel about what bugs are encountered or what's wrong with the chip etc ?
2012-08-29 13:35 <Fallenou> or some guy I could shoot an email about this chip ?
2012-08-29 13:35 <mth> but it happens on JZ4740 too
2012-08-29 13:35 <lindi-> mth: ok, no such hardware here
2012-08-29 13:35 <lindi-> mth: it doesn't happen on arm or x86?
2012-08-29 13:36 <Fallenou> on my daily job we happen to use this chip (connected to an OMAP 3630), and indeed we have a lot of troubles with bluetooth :/
2012-08-29 13:36 <Fallenou> I am referring to this email http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2009-November/001108.html
2012-08-29 13:36 <mth> I don't have an ARM device, on my x86_64 desktop everything is fine but that's an entirely different system (different gdb version, glibc vs uClibc)
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2012-08-29 13:37 <mth> it even happens on /bin/ls (busybox), so it's not related to the application that is being debugged
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2012-08-29 14:51 <wolfspraul> Fallenou: oh my, no I don't :-)
2012-08-29 14:52 <wolfspraul> that's a looong time ago and I learned many things, primarily to stay away from such chips :-)
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2012-08-29 14:53 <wolfspraul> if you are still fixing bugs on that chip today, that's itself a bug already. but other than such non-helpful 'suggestions' I don't have anything, sorry about that
2012-08-29 14:54 <Fallenou> yes marvell shipped a new firmware a few days ago to us
2012-08-29 14:54 <Fallenou> and it has a lot of regressions
2012-08-29 14:54 <Fallenou> it's a nightmare
2012-08-29 14:54 <wpwrak> ;-)
2012-08-29 14:55 <wolfspraul> all I can say about these things will not help you
2012-08-29 14:56 <wpwrak> there's indeed a bit of a message in "oh, we'll fix [many flaws] in the next firmware update", when that comes for a chip that's been around for so many years :)
2012-08-29 14:56 <wolfspraul> but: GOOD LUCK!
2012-08-29 14:56 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: the chip was never designed and made for companies like fallenous, imho
2012-08-29 14:57 <wolfspraul> so by now both marvell and fallenou's company are in a loose-loose situation on this
2012-08-29 14:57 <wolfspraul> fallenou can just "try his best" and be happy about his pay check, which is hopefully comforting...
2012-08-29 14:58 <wolfspraul> Fallenou: don't start drinking :-)
2012-08-29 14:58 <Fallenou> ahah I won't
2012-08-29 14:58 <Fallenou> it's just annoying
2012-08-29 14:58 <wolfspraul> you are paid for the annoyance?
2012-08-29 14:58 <wolfspraul> the enjoy the money...
2012-08-29 14:58 <Fallenou> I don't care that much deep inside
2012-08-29 14:58 <wolfspraul> it's all you will get :-)
2012-08-29 14:59 <Fallenou> Marvell seems to only have 2 automotive chips
2012-08-29 14:59 <Fallenou> and the 88w8688 is one of them
2012-08-29 14:59 <Fallenou> too bad it's just crap
2012-08-29 14:59 <Fallenou> I wonder what will happen when we will try to use te 3.0 features :)
2012-08-29 14:59 <Fallenou> the*
2012-08-29 14:59 <wolfspraul> it probably works for the 1 or 2 customers that are being directly supported
2012-08-29 14:59 <Fallenou> well we have kind of support
2012-08-29 14:59 <wolfspraul> you are not bmw, afaik
2012-08-29 14:59 <Fallenou> we have conf calls and firmware fixes/kernel driver shipping
2012-08-29 15:00 <Fallenou> wolfspraul: no we are not but we may ship to bmw/volvo/mclaren/whatever :)
2012-08-29 15:00 <wpwrak> reminds me of the times at openmoko ... an epic struggle with that wireless chip, yet it never quite worked. in the end, it came down to fatal firmware bugs nobody could be bothered to fix.
2012-08-29 15:00 <wolfspraul> the economics are tough for everyone
2012-08-29 15:00 <Fallenou> add Android on top of all this, and coexistence between wifi and bluetooth
2012-08-29 15:01 <Fallenou> and there you go
2012-08-29 15:01 <wolfspraul> anyway, all blurb that won't help fallenou, I'm afraid
2012-08-29 15:01 <Fallenou> head banging against the wall :)
2012-08-29 15:01 <wolfspraul> in a few years it's all forgotten
2012-08-29 15:01 <Fallenou> anyway thank you for the human conforting support !
2012-08-29 15:01 <wolfspraul> read the leaked apple genius thing today
2012-08-29 15:02 <wolfspraul> "I understand why you feel that way"
2012-08-29 15:03 <wpwrak> you should tell your bosses to find some small company that makes some halfway decent wifi chip, buy that company, then open the design - at least at the register level, deeper if you can - and let the hacker world work on it for a few years
2012-08-29 15:03 <Fallenou> that sounds like a good idea
2012-08-29 15:03 <wpwrak> then you could hope for having, say, decent 802.11g in a couple of years
2012-08-29 15:03 <Fallenou> I'm not high enough in the company hierarchy yet to give this kind of advice
2012-08-29 15:04 <wpwrak> apple genius ?
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