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2012-08-15 05:18 <qi-bot> Pete Ippel ‽: In addition @fabricatorz @billkendrick @openclipart @sharism @qihardware  I'm also planning on giving the presentation on a @Milkymistvj ( 235606080116359168@hypermodern - 40s ago via HootSuite )
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2012-08-15 11:58 <paul_boddie> Hello again! I did some Wiki tidying, but is there any information about getting OpenWrt build changes adopted anywhere?
2012-08-15 12:02 <wpwrak> hmm, not sure we have a formal process. i guess posting to the qi-hw list or discussing the changes here ought to do the trick
2012-08-15 12:03 <wpwrak> and you can always bother xiangfu :)
2012-08-15 12:03 <paul_boddie> Currently, they're on the Wiki as that was the easiest place to put them temporarily: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Patches-pygame-sdl.tar.gz
2012-08-15 12:03 <wpwrak> urgh :)
2012-08-15 12:03 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: someone here badly needs access to downloads.qi-hardware.com ;-)
2012-08-15 12:05 <paul_boddie> It looked like libsdl_mixer wasn't linking to the Vorbis libraries, and I think someone misunderstood the logic in the configure script for that package, so there's a change to the build Makefile there.
2012-08-15 12:06 <paul_boddie> The only thing stopping pygame working was the mention of two undesirable libraries in the build configuration. I was really happy to see pygame in the image supplied on the NanoNote, but was disappointed to see it disappear in later images.
2012-08-15 12:14 <wpwrak> maybe wait a bit to see if someone who's working on openwrt responds here. people who should be able to help with further steps include mth, ayla, kyak, and xiangfu
2012-08-15 12:15 <wpwrak> if everyone is away, enjoying a beer while watching scantly clad girls playing beach volleyball, then you could just post to the list
2012-08-15 12:18 <paul_boddie> But I thought the Olympics were over! :-)
2012-08-15 12:18 <paul_boddie> I'll probably also post to the list, too, as I was just looking for some quick answers here.
2012-08-15 12:19 <paul_boddie> The only real answers I need would be related to compiling numpy, but I suspect that the toolchain doesn't support the necessary floating point functionality in target programs.
2012-08-15 12:21 <wpwrak> dunno. does numpy need something unusual ?
2012-08-15 12:22 <paul_boddie> It includes <fenv.h> which does exist in uClibc but isn't installed as part of the working toolchain. There seems to be workarounds for Cygwin, but I suspect that these are nasty hacks that only work on x86(-64).
2012-08-15 12:23 <paul_boddie> I might look at the Vorbis/Tremor stuff for inspiration, however.
2012-08-15 12:23 <mth> wpwrak: we're using buildroot, not openwrt, for OpenDingux; there are lots of similarities though
2012-08-15 12:24 <kyak> paul_boddie: probably the best way is to send patches to mailing list, someone will take care and merge them
2012-08-15 12:24 <wpwrak> hmm, fenv.h even seems to be in POSIX. first time i see it, though
2012-08-15 12:24 <paul_boddie> mth: I'm using the openwrt-xburst stuff.
2012-08-15 12:24 <paul_boddie> kyak: I guess I'll do that, then. Thanks!
2012-08-15 12:27 <mth> paul_boddie: these are the configure flags we use: https://github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-buildroot
2012-08-15 12:27 <mth> the use of tremor instead of the plain libvorbis is important, since softfloat is very slow
2012-08-15 12:28 <wolfspraul> paul_boddie: just stay in this channel and/or wait for xiangfu's reply, we will definitely get this folded into the builds...
2012-08-15 12:28 <wolfspraul> you are at the right place here :-)
2012-08-15 12:29 <paul_boddie> mth: Thanks for the link! I've noticed that if I play Vorbis in pygame it works well, but if I use the play command the sound breaks up badly. So I imagine that there's a linkage change possible with that program, too.
2012-08-15 12:29 <mth> direct link: https://raw.github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-buildroot/opendingux-2010.11/package/sdl_mixer/sdl_mixer.mk
2012-08-15 12:31 <paul_boddie> I think the SDL mixer stuff was combining --disable-music-ogg with --enable-music-ogg-tremor (and also enabling dynamic loading and explicitly using the tremor library), but without looking at the configure logic, I guess that --disable-music-ogg just short-circuits everything and disables all support.
2012-08-15 12:32 <paul_boddie> wolfspraul: Do you remember any discussions about floating point support?
2012-08-15 12:32 <wolfspraul> not really
2012-08-15 12:32 <wolfspraul> I think there is no hw floating point support on the Ben, and software support is slow...
2012-08-15 12:32 <wolfspraul> something like that
2012-08-15 12:33 <paul_boddie> I should really search a bit harder in the uClib documentation for such things, I suppose.
2012-08-15 12:34 <paul_boddie> By the way, I think the result of everyone's hard work putting the device together and getting the software onto it is really amazing. :-)
2012-08-15 12:47 <wolfspraul> thanks!
2012-08-15 12:47 <wolfspraul> :-)
2012-08-15 12:47 <wolfspraul> that was and continues to be extremely hard indeed
2012-08-15 12:47 <wolfspraul> lots of people helped...
2012-08-15 12:48 <wolfspraul> btw today is bison day for me. I'm dusting off my old parser knowledge :-)
2012-08-15 12:49 <wolfspraul> so far it doesn't really work yet, but I know with bison you have to be a little patient at the beginning, and will be rewarded richly over time :-)
2012-08-15 12:53 <paul_boddie> After trying a few images out at the weekend, I spent some time reading the list archives to see what discussion I might have missed - I only ever vaguely followed the different projects here, I'm afraid - but I regard the result as a genuine success, even if not everybody's goals were met.
2012-08-15 12:59 <paul_boddie> I'm really looking forward to trying out some projects, possibly fixing up some stuff on the way, and perhaps eventually getting some low-level software or hardware experience.
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2012-08-15 13:10 <mth> I'm not sure how the openwrt for the NanoNote handles it, but for OpenDingux we have a toolchain that uses softfloat by default
2012-08-15 13:10 <mth> there is no hw floating point in Ingenic CPUs until I think JZ4760
2012-08-15 13:11 <mth> and the in-kernel FPU emulation is much slower still than softfloat
2012-08-15 13:25 <paul_boddie> I've not really looked at the toolchain configuration yet. I used to use ARM CPUs when they were first around, and the lack of floating point hardware often led to a range of strategies for optimising performance. For pygame, I found that instead of needing numpy, which is a huge bundle of tangential stuff, I can probably use the pixel array support instead, and I suppose there will be similar workarounds for other software.
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2012-08-15 13:59 <paul_boddie> I guess the uClibc settings of interest are UCLIBC_HAS_FLOATS and UCLIBC_HAS_FPU.
2012-08-15 14:01 <paul_boddie> And, of course, UCLIBC_HAS_FENV. Maybe that is set as a consequence of the others being set or unset.
2012-08-15 14:02 <paul_boddie> There seems to be a CONFIG_SOFT_FLOAT setting in the OpenWrt, perhaps similar to the BR2_SOFT_FLOAT in buildroot.
2012-08-15 14:05 <jow_laptop> yes, that just results in -msoft-float for gcc calls (openwrt softfloat option)
2012-08-15 14:07 <paul_boddie> Would it give me fenv.h? :-)
2012-08-15 14:09 <jow_laptop> likely not
2012-08-15 14:09 <jow_laptop> I only have some C++ related fenv.h here
2012-08-15 14:10 <jow_laptop> it provides ::fenv_t and ::fexcept_t
2012-08-15 14:10 <jow_laptop> but no equivalent for C
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2012-08-15 14:22 <paul_boddie> I'd have to take a look. I swear I saw an fenv.h for C in the uClibc sources as well as the C++ wrapper that appears to get installed, but I'd have to look again and understand what it's for, too.
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2012-08-15 23:15 <LunaVorax> hi
2012-08-15 23:15 <pabs3> hola
2012-08-15 23:16 <LunaVorax> que tal? :P
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2012-08-15 23:19 <pabs3> no mucho
2012-08-15 23:22 <LunaVorax> You don't speak spanish pabs3, right?
2012-08-15 23:22 <pabs3> solo un poco
2012-08-15 23:22 <LunaVorax> That's great because me neither
2012-08-15 23:22 <pabs3> :)
2012-08-15 23:22 <LunaVorax> :P
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