2012-06-10 00:01 <GNUtoo> DocScrutinizer05, I guess theses laptops aren't cheap
2012-06-10 00:01 <GNUtoo> there are 2 rugged laptops supported by coreboot btw
2012-06-10 00:01 <DocScrutinizer05> aqctually quite cheap, on fleabay and refurbished
2012-06-10 00:01 <GNUtoo> ok
2012-06-10 00:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ~330EUR
2012-06-10 00:02 <DocScrutinizer05> for a CF-29 in top condition
2012-06-10 00:02 <GNUtoo> ok
2012-06-10 00:03 <GNUtoo> personally I'm more interested in the Getac 	P470 or the Roda 	RK886EX (Rocky III+) which are supported by coreboot, or simply a lenovo x60/t60
2012-06-10 00:03 <DocScrutinizer05> T500 typing here
2012-06-10 00:31 <kristianpaul> DocScrutinizer05: getting ready for next deluge?
2012-06-10 00:31 <DocScrutinizer05> just preparing to finally sniper poettering
2012-06-10 00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken
2012-06-10 00:34 <kristianpaul> :)
2012-06-10 00:34 <DocScrutinizer05> fucktards
2012-06-10 00:35 <kristianpaul> soon you'll read, booting without paying to microsoft a tax is ilegal :)
2012-06-10 00:39 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Due to this, many upstream developers have decided to consider the problem of a separate /usr that is not mounted during early boot an outdated question, and started to close bugs regarding these issues as WONTFIX. We certainly cannot blame them, as the benefit of supporting this is questionable and brings a lot of additional work with it.<< BWAHAHAAAHAAAA does this guy really think we'll buy his lame excuse for lazyness and not
2012-06-10 00:39 <DocScrutinizer05> maintaining his system properly?
2012-06-10 00:42 <DocScrutinizer05> A)mount /usr *early*! B) move stuff you need before mounting /usr to /[s]bin C) don't use friggin useless stuff like PA in early boot, for the "questionable benefit" of e.g. playing a powerup jingle with the default PA shite
2012-06-10 00:43 <kristianpaul> GNUtoo: x60 is really cheap !
2012-06-10 00:43 <kristianpaul> interesting
2012-06-10 00:43 <kristianpaul> anyway .. :-)
2012-06-10 00:43 * kristianpaul argghh not get distracted again :)
2012-06-10 00:43 <GNUtoo> kristianpaul, it's a computer, and the support is close to 100% complete
2012-06-10 00:44 <GNUtoo> so I guess you just need to :
2012-06-10 00:44 <GNUtoo> 1) take information on it
2012-06-10 00:44 <GNUtoo> 2)buy it
2012-06-10 00:44 <GNUtoo> 3)install coreboot on it + a distro
2012-06-10 00:44 <GNUtoo> and you're done
2012-06-10 00:44 <GNUtoo> no need to hack on it
2012-06-10 00:44 <GNUtoo> I mean on coreboot
2012-06-10 00:45 <kristianpaul> good deal
2012-06-10 00:47 <GNUtoo> indeed
2012-06-10 00:47 <GNUtoo> if you can find one in your area it's a good deal
2012-06-10 00:47 <GNUtoo> else it become complicated to buy second hand stuff online etc...
2012-06-10 00:48 <kristianpaul> i can but x40..
2012-06-10 00:56 <kristianpaul> anyway..
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2012-06-10 01:30 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/: generate for connectors CONN_1 to CONN_40X2 (in gencon.lib) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/7864070
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2012-06-10 01:51 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120609-0542
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2012-06-10 01:59 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: seems your m1 patches not work well http://paste.debian.net/173758/
2012-06-10 02:02 <kristianpaul> http://paste.debian.net/173760/ :-|
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2012-06-10 03:51 <wpwrak> they should work with rtems 5c51ba1333d96e2ada2c374ba22b551d179e6685
2012-06-10 03:52 <wpwrak> maybe something has changed upstream since. that was two months ago
2012-06-10 03:59 <kristianpaul> 1d179e6685, thats what i need it, thanks !
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2012-06-10 04:31 <kristianpaul> oh dear... http://paste.debian.net/173765/
2012-06-10 04:45 * kristianpaul trying with 07896ad5d78af2f47e79c6829e3a57718d660e44
2012-06-10 05:07 <wpwrak> the rtems-yaffs i have its cbe7492ee0e5a9bced8267d9c7ab2fd997299fda
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2012-06-10 08:24 <whitequark> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTExMzE
2012-06-10 08:51 <viric> nice
2012-06-10 08:53 <viric> how does GPL apply to verilog ?
2012-06-10 08:53 <viric> All verilog synthesized to a single chip has to be GPL?
2012-06-10 08:54 <lindi-> viric: what does it mean that "chip is GPL"?
2012-06-10 08:54 <viric> And it can be connected only to other GPL chips?   A LGPL verilog would allow connecting it to non-GPL chips
2012-06-10 08:54 <viric> :)
2012-06-10 08:55 <viric> lindi-: I also don't know. hehe
2012-06-10 08:55 <viric> ah, I meant "verilog has to be GPL"
2012-06-10 08:55 <viric> (synthesized to a single chip)
2012-06-10 08:56 <viric> LGPL allows 'linking' to non-GPL pieces, but only if the LGPL pieces can be replaceable. Hence, a chip appart :)
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2012-06-10 11:21 * pabs3 didn't think copyright law applied to chips
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2012-06-10 12:11 <roh> hm. gpl/lgpl.. maybe even agpl...  i should ask the lawyers about that. thats a real good question
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2012-06-10 12:58 <viric> roh: I found my OOMK hangs relate to reiserfs. Having moved to ext4 it does not hang anymore, under OOMK conditions
2012-06-10 12:59 <viric> roh: nevertheless, when I filled the same-size new ext4 fs with the files I had in the reiserfs, not only ext4 took far more disk...
2012-06-10 12:59 <viric> but I had 92% of inode usage.
2012-06-10 13:04 * pabs3 finds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_layout_design_protection
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2012-06-10 14:22 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: it works now thanks a lot !
2012-06-10 14:34 <wpwrak> was a pleasure to help :) and sorry for the inconvenience.
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2012-06-10 14:58 <roh> viric: inode-count is set on format.
2012-06-10 14:59 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/pads-array.fpd: we need loop for pins and for packages, not just one (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/20c9436
2012-06-10 14:59 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/adxl32x.lib: Analog Devices ADXL321, ... accelerometers (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/96c7eb3
2012-06-10 14:59 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/qfn.fpd: add experimental footprint for AD CP-16-5a* MQ_LFCSP_LQ (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e01b8d6
2012-06-10 14:59 <roh> viric: you can easily make it have more inodes.
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2012-06-10 15:02 <viric> yes, reformatting, I know
2012-06-10 15:02 <viric> I used triple inodes (now ~33% usage) on the new format
2012-06-10 15:02 <roh> viric: well.. you did that anyhow. usually if you do not run a ntpd on it one doesnt need extra many inodes
2012-06-10 15:02 <viric> But I also noticed that for the very same files, ext4 needs 1,8GB *MORE* than reiserfs (on a 7,8GB disk. That's 23% of the disk)
2012-06-10 15:03 <roh> you are sure you set reseved blocks the same?
2012-06-10 15:03 <viric> ?
2012-06-10 15:03 <viric> I've a tar. I unpack it to a reiserfs, or to an ext4. That's the difference in "df" free.
2012-06-10 15:03 <roh> and not dialed around on bytes per inode or inode-size?
2012-06-10 15:04 <viric> The default "mkfs.ext4" used 1,6GB more than reiserfs.
2012-06-10 15:04 <viric> With triple inodes (500k vs 1500k) it uses 1,8GB more than reiserfs.
2012-06-10 15:04 <roh> well... i do not have any clue what your distro uses ad defaults
2012-06-10 15:04 <viric> my distro?
2012-06-10 15:04 <viric> I run mkfs.ext4 /dev/blabla
2012-06-10 15:04 <viric> why would the distro matter?
2012-06-10 15:05 <roh> they all patch stuff/package different defaults
2012-06-10 15:05 <viric> uh?
2012-06-10 15:05 <viric> hm
2012-06-10 15:05 <viric> I'll check the recipe
2012-06-10 15:06 <viric>   configureFlags = "--enable-elf-shlibs --disable-libuuid --disable-libblkid --disable-uuidd --disable-fsck";
2012-06-10 15:06 <viric> That's the only detail out of "./configure; make; make install"
2012-06-10 15:08 <roh> viric: i have a 116G filesystem here, which has 7684096 inodes. of that 30G are used (4 linux virtual machines) which is 419283 inodes.
2012-06-10 15:09 <roh> so inode used count is direct proportional to space used in mbytes (atleast within 1% error)
2012-06-10 15:09 <roh> ah. no. its 6% inodes used, to 28% diskspace used. sorry. checked the wrong table here.
2012-06-10 15:10 <viric> well, the number of inodes depends a lot on the number of files you have
2012-06-10 15:10 <viric> if you store videos, you'll have few inodes :)
2012-06-10 15:11 <viric> their default guess does not match my usage, it seems
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2012-06-10 15:11 <viric> and for the disk space used... ext4 looks somehow optimised to big files. Small files take a lot, compare to reisersf (23% of the full fs)
2012-06-10 15:12 <roh> viric: thats why one can adjust the settings. no heuristics can guess right in advance
2012-06-10 15:14 <viric> do you have any suggestion of settings?
2012-06-10 15:14 <viric> I'd be fine with 1500k inodes...
2012-06-10 15:14 <viric> But I want more free space. I've no idea what to touch.
2012-06-10 15:18 <viric> roh: I can paste you dumpe2fs
2012-06-10 15:18 <viric> roh:  http://sprunge.us/IRUY
2012-06-10 15:30 <roh> viric: how big is that fs in total?
2012-06-10 15:30 <roh> half a million inodes seems low
2012-06-10 15:31 <viric> roh: 8GB
2012-06-10 15:31 <viric> (7,8GB, well.)
2012-06-10 15:31 <roh> that seems ok.
2012-06-10 15:31 <roh> what stuff do you put in there that you need so many small files?
2012-06-10 15:32 <viric> OS files mostly
2012-06-10 15:32 <viric> but as far as I understand, I can't make ext4 give me more free space for my use case.
2012-06-10 15:33 <roh> viric: still weird. try finding out where you have 'many small files'
2012-06-10 15:33 <viric> I know where they are... whether they are a lot or not, I can't tell
2012-06-10 15:33 <viric> It's a matter of taste I imagine
2012-06-10 15:33 <roh> viric: as shown above i have very few files per 'OS'
2012-06-10 15:33 <roh> the 419283 inodes are 4 complete ubuntu server vms(12.04)
2012-06-10 15:34 <viric> well, it's a development machine; I have all headers, libs, ...
2012-06-10 15:34 <viric> not only runtime
2012-06-10 15:34 <roh> ah. i see.
2012-06-10 15:35 <roh> well.. then just tell it do use more inodes
2012-06-10 15:35 <viric> in any case, I'm loosing 1,8GB that using reiserfs I'd have free
2012-06-10 15:35 <viric> losing
2012-06-10 15:35 <viric> pity
2012-06-10 15:35 <viric> A hardcore dev would just fix reiserfs :)
2012-06-10 15:36 <roh> i still dont get where those 1.8g should go. i dont have that here
2012-06-10 15:36 <roh> well. yeah. the journal needs to be somewhere, but reiser needs that also, right?
2012-06-10 15:36 <viric> roh: I've two loop devices of the same size, same tar unpacked to them. I run 'df', and shazam... 1,8G difference
2012-06-10 15:36 <viric> yes, reiser has journal to
2012-06-10 15:36 <viric> too
2012-06-10 15:37 <viric> hum maybe I did not pass the hardlinks with tar... does tar pick hardlinks by default?
2012-06-10 15:37 <viric> hm maybe it's that. I'll resolve the hardlinks
2012-06-10 15:38 <roh> viric: reserved space?
2012-06-10 15:38 <viric> I should have used --hard-dereference
2012-06-10 15:38 <viric> Let's try.
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2012-06-10 19:02 <DocScrutinizer05> viric: check for stuff hidden under mountpoints
2012-06-10 19:02 <DocScrutinizer05> age old prank
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2012-06-10 19:04 <DocScrutinizer05> also semantics of "used space" differs a lot, depending if you count and sum up real filelength, or you calculate space taken on storage - incl. sector overhead which is statistically 0.5 sectors/file
2012-06-10 19:04 <DocScrutinizer05> plus inodes and whaztnot
2012-06-10 19:05 <viric> DocScrutinizer05: I only look at 'df' free space
2012-06-10 19:06 <viric> DocScrutinizer05: I mount one fs into ./r, the other into ./o;
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2012-06-10 19:30 <DocScrutinizer05> viric: ooh, I didn't mean mountpoint where the fs under test got mounted. Hidden files under a mountpoint count for the disk usage of the fs where the mountpoint dir is located, not for the mounted fs
2012-06-10 19:31 <DocScrutinizer05> so aiui you mount a fs under ./o or ./r, and probably both have no mounts on them, so are unaffected by any hidden files
2012-06-10 19:34 <viric> yes
2012-06-10 19:34 <viric> in any case I look at 'df'
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2012-06-10 19:35 <viric> I think that maybe the hardlinks explain the story... one fs has hardlinks, the other not
2012-06-10 19:35 <DocScrutinizer05> df probably just looks for free blocks
2012-06-10 19:35 <viric> but I don't know how to convey hardlinks from one side to the other.
2012-06-10 19:35 <viric> tar --hard-dereference clearly fails
2012-06-10 19:35 <viric> in fact when I used --hard-dereference, I had even less free space
2012-06-10 19:35 <viric> AH!
2012-06-10 19:36 <viric> because 'tar' by default respects hard links, and with --hard-reference I made it copy the contents...
2012-06-10 19:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, sounds right
2012-06-10 19:36 <viric> Weird. Then ext4 is really taking 23% of *additional* metadata compared to reiserfs
2012-06-10 19:36 <viric> 23% of the total filesystem.
2012-06-10 19:36 <viric> I've 1,8GB unavailable only because I use ext4 instead of reiserfs.
2012-06-10 19:36 <DocScrutinizer05> hard to believe
2012-06-10 19:37 <viric> do you want to test yourself? I could prepare a public tar. :)
2012-06-10 19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> well, reiserfs afaik packs files, which means there's no wasted space at and of files (this average half sector)
2012-06-10 19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> for a lot of files this can sum up
2012-06-10 19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> s/at and/at end/
2012-06-10 19:40 <viric> they have that 'tail' thing, yes
2012-06-10 19:40 <viric> 400k files
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2012-06-10 20:26 <viric> Does somebody know if UML works for anything other than x86?
2012-06-10 20:27 <viric> (no arm and no mips, I imagine)
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