2012-05-29 00:28 Openfree` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-29 00:32 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 00:41 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 00:49 cladamw has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2012-05-29 00:52 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 01:14 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 01:14 qwebirc77136 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 01:14 qwebirc77136 is now known as rjeffries 2012-05-29 01:15 good morning everybody 2012-05-29 01:15 cladamw: hi! :-) 2012-05-29 01:15 I am reading over the m1 schematics and I am so impressed about their quality! 2012-05-29 01:15 This project is new to me. seems very open, but I am not expert on licenses etc.: http://www.ethernut.de/ 2012-05-29 01:15 good morning 2012-05-29 01:16 that is really fun to read through and think about, one can feel it's not the typical sloppy junk with all sorts of loose ends and "don't cares" 2012-05-29 01:16 thank you (and Werner) so much for your excellent work on this 2012-05-29 01:16 the quality derived from werner's suggestions. :) 2012-05-29 01:16 I have a few small questions here and there, clueless as I am about circuits 2012-05-29 01:17 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 01:17 and adam's relentless work on applying them with great care :) 2012-05-29 01:19 cladamw: i'm actually a bit puzzled how you avoided making a lot more mistakes :) i mean trivial things that you just overlook. after a while, i simply don't see my own mistakes anymore. but try as i might, i found almost nothing in your work. 2012-05-29 01:19 wolfspraul: and thanks :) 2012-05-29 01:19 wolfspraul when do you plan to have thge new itereatuion of MM available for customers to oreder? 2012-05-29 01:19 [commit] Adam Wang: ir.fpd: added front edge silkscreen (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/b88a133 2012-05-29 01:20 ok I start a little 2012-05-29 01:20 on the pdf side, we already know we could be better in technical things like searchable text, links, page titles, what not 2012-05-29 01:21 some things I noticed on the power supply page 2012-05-29 01:21 U11 pin4 "Inhibit" ends in a little 'x' 2012-05-29 01:21 does that mean it's not connected/floating? 2012-05-29 01:21 I would think so but that may not be 100% clear 2012-05-29 01:22 all those little "x" mean unconnected 2012-05-29 01:22 yeah 2012-05-29 01:22 ok 2012-05-29 01:22 most of my feedback is about 'understandability' 2012-05-29 01:22 wpwrak, hehe ... i eventually got used to your rules but still not convinced myself to good quality once I saw all explanations you mentioned. All reasonable ! 2012-05-29 01:22 it's something you put there manually, so that kicad warn you if you forgot to assign some pins 2012-05-29 01:23 something I noticed in the 5V bottom-left part - D15 says "5.6Vdc" but C142 is just "100n" 2012-05-29 01:23 so the cap doesn't have a unit, but the voltage does 2012-05-29 01:23 yes, we use the compact unit-or-multiplier-as-decimal-point notation for the most common values 2012-05-29 01:24 only occured to me because the two are right next to each other 2012-05-29 01:24 we only switch to regular SI style for the more exotic parts 2012-05-29 01:24 but not for 5.6Vdc? :-) 2012-05-29 01:24 voltage is not exotic 2012-05-29 01:24 R and C are a lot more common than zeners :) 2012-05-29 01:24 I agree to leave the Vdc there btw, but it makes me feel sad about the missins 'farad' :-) 2012-05-29 01:24 sure sure, just saying because I saw those two back to back 2012-05-29 01:24 besides, zeners have multiple voltages. so the "dc" does convey information. 2012-05-29 01:24 it felt wrong 2012-05-29 01:25 next one - I noticed those blocks "POWERED" on nets 2012-05-29 01:25 do you also feel bad about the missing Omega for resistors ? 2012-05-29 01:25 I'm wondering whether that is more helpful or more confusing 2012-05-29 01:25 no 2012-05-29 01:25 I understand the system 2012-05-29 01:25 but you have to admit seeing those "5.6Vdc" and "100n" next to each other feels unbalanced 2012-05-29 01:25 so our instincts work in similar ways ;-) 2012-05-29 01:25 it feels like "one of them must be wrong" 2012-05-29 01:26 small detail 2012-05-29 01:26 just my impressions 2012-05-29 01:26 "POWERED" 2012-05-29 01:26 basically we want to clarify where the power lines are 2012-05-29 01:26 my instinctive response to 100n is also that it's a little odd. but i have a hard time coming up with a rule that would require an F for caps but no Omega for resistors. 2012-05-29 01:26 a "strong and continuous" signal :-) 2012-05-29 01:27 "POWERED" is to help kicad with error checking 2012-05-29 01:27 I find that "POWERED" confusing because I think there must be a wire/net "POWERED" somewhere 2012-05-29 01:27 hi wolfspraul :) 2012-05-29 01:27 is it? 2012-05-29 01:27 until I understand it's more like a comment/note 2012-05-29 01:27 you can have pins that are defined as "power input". you must connect them to a "power output" 2012-05-29 01:27 and even then it's quite fuzzy since "powered" is still about electrons and physics as everything else 2012-05-29 01:27 that can be a pin marked as such, or some other pin with the POWERED on top 2012-05-29 01:27 again, just describing my confusion 2012-05-29 01:28 but eventually I got it 2012-05-29 01:28 it's a confusing concept :) 2012-05-29 01:28 all sorts of lines are marked "POWERED" :-) 2012-05-29 01:28 not sure what to think of this 2012-05-29 01:28 kicad makes it even more confusing by just having a mysterious diamond-shaped symbol 2012-05-29 01:28 some devices can be powered using just the energy coming over signal wires... 2012-05-29 01:28 at least we got rid of that one :) 2012-05-29 01:28 you could argue this forever 2012-05-29 01:29 power is flowing all over 2012-05-29 01:29 think of it as a declaration 2012-05-29 01:29 yeah but very strange one 2012-05-29 01:29 sort of a comment for kicad 2012-05-29 01:29 don't know what the point should be 2012-05-29 01:29 you could easily take this concept apart I think 2012-05-29 01:29 thinking about something as simple as a PWM circuit 2012-05-29 01:29 Ayla has quit [Quit: dodo] 2012-05-29 01:29 so first it's not a "powered" line, and then it is? after the lowpass filter? 2012-05-29 01:29 i consider it borderline useful, too. but that's what you have to do to get kicad to be happy with your design 2012-05-29 01:30 sure sure 2012-05-29 01:30 just my feedback 2012-05-29 01:30 here's another one... 2012-05-29 01:30 we have a lot of ICs, on the power page for example "TPS76301" 2012-05-29 01:30 a regulator? so I am wondering whether ICs should have 2 more fields in the schematics, just text: 1) type 2) maker 2012-05-29 01:31 if you run an ERC on, say, atben, you'll find more weirdness. nasty things i didn't work around. such as "output" pins that connect to ground. (for RF hardening) of course, kicad complains. but it doesn't provide a means for modeling such oddball concepts. 2012-05-29 01:31 emeb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2012-05-29 01:31 I think chip brands are important, and so might be a quick categorization like "regulator" or "ldo" or whatever 2012-05-29 01:31 i wouldn't be opposed to specifying the maker. 2012-05-29 01:31 great 2012-05-29 01:32 how about category/type ? 2012-05-29 01:32 speeds up reading I think 2012-05-29 01:32 (maker) because boom may be mislead, too. it does matching on vendor part numbers. 2012-05-29 01:33 dunno. it's usually pretty clear what the things do. just a question of recognizing design patterns. 2012-05-29 01:33 oh 2012-05-29 01:33 we continued the thread in 2 channels :-) 2012-05-29 01:33 sorry about that 2012-05-29 01:33 #milkymist then 2012-05-29 01:33 or here? 2012-05-29 01:33 I'm confused now 2012-05-29 01:34 so for ICs - add maker & type 2012-05-29 01:34 ? 2012-05-29 01:34 if possible, I would vote for keeping that "POWERED" box out altogether 2012-05-29 01:34 in the PDF 2012-05-29 01:35 if you drop the POWERED, ERC gets messy 2012-05-29 01:35 I don't want to drop a kicad concept 2012-05-29 01:35 I only talk about the PDF I am reading 2012-05-29 01:35 and I describe the things that cause me a little mental bump 2012-05-29 01:35 without any subsequent aha moment 2012-05-29 01:35 more like "urgh" moment 2012-05-29 01:36 I have some more 2012-05-29 01:36 i think it's just another concept you have to get used to. i think the "POWERED" is already much better than the diamond. e.g., you guessed right that it's just some sort of comment. you'd have had a much harder time figuring out what the diamond means. 2012-05-29 01:36 in a PWM you first have a pulse, then a DC current 2012-05-29 01:36 right? 2012-05-29 01:36 (diamond) consider this: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/atben/pdf_atben.pdf 2012-05-29 01:36 where does "POWERED" start? 2012-05-29 01:37 the critters are in the lower right corner 2012-05-29 01:37 just with my tiny little knowledge of electronics I already kinda swallow hard on this 'powered' thing 2012-05-29 01:37 you're over-analyzing :-) 2012-05-29 01:37 good thing we don't document intricate regulator circuits 2012-05-29 01:37 not over-analyzing 2012-05-29 01:38 I run into this, it wastes my brain energy 2012-05-29 01:38 until I mentally dump it into the trash bin 2012-05-29 01:38 because I see those "5V" marks clearly 2012-05-29 01:38 or "1V8" 2012-05-29 01:38 so what could that be? 2012-05-29 01:38 a DC current? 2012-05-29 01:38 then what is "POWERED"? 2012-05-29 01:38 nothing, just confusion 2012-05-29 01:38 rjeffries has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-29 01:39 perhaps we should have left the diamonds. you may have found them easier to overlook :) 2012-05-29 01:39 the bikeshed problem :) 2012-05-29 01:39 and again, I do want to learn. in a PWM, where does 'powered' start? 2012-05-29 01:39 first it's a pulse, right? 2012-05-29 01:39 then it becomes a DC current 2012-05-29 01:39 true? 2012-05-29 01:39 or did I misunderstand this 2012-05-29 01:39 phirsch has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-05-29 01:39 seems very artificial to me where the "POWERED" starts 2012-05-29 01:40 it starts on the net to which you connect to a "power in" pin and which doesn't already connect to a "power out" pin 2012-05-29 01:40 and your example of shunting to ground or whatever in atrf as well 2012-05-29 01:40 this "powered" concept feels wrong to me 2012-05-29 01:40 but the "1V8" are clear 2012-05-29 01:40 think of it as a directive to guide ERC 2012-05-29 01:41 it's in the mental trash bin now 2012-05-29 01:41 I don't think about it anymore :-) 2012-05-29 01:41 I can't see it 2012-05-29 01:41 it disappeared! :-) 2012-05-29 01:41 another one 2012-05-29 01:41 its presence does not affect what your circuit does. only what complains you get from ERC. 2012-05-29 01:41 we have a nice little table with hw revision on one of the fpga sheets 2012-05-29 01:41 I understand [kicad/erc] 2012-05-29 01:41 maybe we should call it "FNORD" then :) 2012-05-29 01:41 but I talk about readability/understandability of the pdf 2012-05-29 01:42 and I think I may have a point there 2012-05-29 01:42 coming from that angle... 2012-05-29 01:42 it's a quirky kicad concept 2012-05-29 01:42 phirsch has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 01:42 so, that hw revision table 2012-05-29 01:42 I like those little tables 2012-05-29 01:42 on the power supply page, we have a bunch of voltages we are generating 2012-05-29 01:42 wouldn't it be nice to have a little table that lists who the different voltages are for? 2012-05-29 01:42 just high-level, but I think it could help 2012-05-29 01:43 in fact, on the top left side we have a 4V3 = 4.3V? who is that for? 2012-05-29 01:43 sure. you commonly have power distribution diagrams. also things like current would be interesting. 2012-05-29 01:43 doesn't even have to be part of the schematics 2012-05-29 01:43 yes, current too 2012-05-29 01:44 although we have a few little "4A" etc here and there 2012-05-29 01:44 my idea was just to start with a little table on the power supply page 2012-05-29 01:44 very simple 2012-05-29 01:44 who is the 4V3 for? 2012-05-29 01:44 yes, that's the beads. since openmoko, i'm very picky about seeing them properly specified ;-) 2012-05-29 01:45 i think it's for audio 2012-05-29 01:45 yes, audio 2012-05-29 01:45 ah, ok 2012-05-29 01:45 well then, "little overview table" 2012-05-29 01:45 I have some more 2012-05-29 01:45 on the fpga decoupling page 2012-05-29 01:45 the larger caps are polarized, the smaller ones not? 2012-05-29 01:45 this touches on a broader problem: it would be nice if global labels indicated there else the signal appears 2012-05-29 01:45 it there an obvious reason/explanation for that that any EE would know, or should we add a little comment? 2012-05-29 01:46 say for example C88 is polarized (4u7) but C98 (470n) is not 2012-05-29 01:46 maybe this is obvious for more knowledgeable folks 2012-05-29 01:46 i'm not even sure if all of the caps drawn as polarized are really polarized. i'm almost certain they're not. 2012-05-29 01:46 well ok 2012-05-29 01:46 then I even may have a point 2012-05-29 01:46 some more 2012-05-29 01:47 on the U22C page (btw I don't know which page is bank 0/1/2/3) 2012-05-29 01:47 I really hate those DNP/0R resistors without explanation 2012-05-29 01:47 feels like some uncertainty/sloppiness/unfinishedness to me 2012-05-29 01:47 that's bank 2 2012-05-29 01:47 R158-R161 2012-05-29 01:48 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2012-05-29 01:48 R158 is 0R DNP, R159 is 0R 2012-05-29 01:48 bah 2012-05-29 01:48 :-) 2012-05-29 01:48 -> xilinx manual ;-) 2012-05-29 01:48 so it has to be like this? 2012-05-29 01:48 can R159 also be DNP? 2012-05-29 01:48 M0/M1 set some sort of boot mode. but the details are probably complicated. 2012-05-29 01:48 can all those 4 be removed? 2012-05-29 01:49 ok but you admit that a block of 2*2 resistors, all 0R, two DNP two not is confusing! 2012-05-29 01:49 it's really a "go to the current xilinx docs if you need an answer" type of question 2012-05-29 01:49 something like this I mentally want to rip out entirely and understand what is really going on 2012-05-29 01:49 i mean, in the general sense 2012-05-29 01:49 or it's a leftover of unfinished/partial works 2012-05-29 01:50 Openfree` has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 01:50 I have some more :-) 2012-05-29 01:50 hope this is interesting for anyone... 2012-05-29 01:50 similar issue on the nor flash page 2012-05-29 01:50 R60/61, R184 2012-05-29 01:50 a 0R / DNP pair is usually clear: we want to be able to generate H or L. there's one choice that's the normal condition for our board. but someone may what to change it. therefore, we add a footprint that allows doing that 2012-05-29 01:50 60 and 61 are 10k dnp 2012-05-29 01:50 think USB_BOOT on the ben 2012-05-29 01:50 184 is 4k7 2012-05-29 01:51 so those are all pull-up resistors? 2012-05-29 01:51 why is one 4k7 and two are 10k? 2012-05-29 01:51 where are they ? 2012-05-29 01:51 and the 10k - is the pullup needed or not? 2012-05-29 01:51 those are the ones we fiddled around with forever in the reset battles :-) 2012-05-29 01:51 nor flash page 2012-05-29 01:52 but I see those 3, and it looks confusing/unfinished 2012-05-29 01:52 if r60/r61 are dnp now, can we remove them? 2012-05-29 01:52 no pullup needed? 2012-05-29 01:52 on which page are they ? 2012-05-29 01:52 I may misunderstand it of course 2012-05-29 01:52 u9 nor flash 2012-05-29 01:53 thanks ! ah yes, they're indeed a bit odd 2012-05-29 01:53 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 01:53 some more 2012-05-29 01:53 C127 on that page, value is 1u, but not polarized 2012-05-29 01:53 the bigger ones before were polarized, the smaller ones not 2012-05-29 01:53 what is the cutoff/reason? 2012-05-29 01:54 i think polarization is quite arbitrary 2012-05-29 01:54 just saw it. C128 is 100n C127 is 1u 2012-05-29 01:54 well 2012-05-29 01:54 as i said, several caps drawn as polarized probably have components that aren't 2012-05-29 01:54 should we remove the + then? 2012-05-29 01:54 in some use cases the difference can be quite dramatic though I would think 2012-05-29 01:55 i don't know what rules adam applies. in the end, i does't bother me too much, since they're nearly equivalent 2012-05-29 01:55 ok 2012-05-29 01:55 next one first 2012-05-29 01:55 (nearly equivalent) in the cases we have here. you're right that there are situations where things are less obvious. 2012-05-29 01:56 on the usb a/b page, some more wonderful DNP resistors 2012-05-29 01:56 DNP can mean a number of things :) 2012-05-29 01:56 and even better, a note saying "full speed: mount R168" "low speed: mount R169" 2012-05-29 01:56 now that is confusing 2012-05-29 01:56 do we really mean a difference between full and low? 2012-05-29 01:56 or between host and slave? 2012-05-29 01:57 why is that comment/dnp resistors missing on the usb c/d and e/f pages? 2012-05-29 01:57 design variants, things where we want to leave a plan b open, and then stuff we simply leave to the user to equip 2012-05-29 01:57 there's a lot of the latter in audio 2012-05-29 01:57 low and full? 2012-05-29 01:57 with resistor values? 2012-05-29 01:57 what do we mount on R4 then? 2012-05-29 01:57 both dnp? 2012-05-29 01:57 I don't get it 2012-05-29 01:57 it's just confusing 2012-05-29 01:57 so with both dnp, neither low nor full with work? 2012-05-29 01:57 something is not clear there 2012-05-29 01:57 dammit, never close kicad even you already saved... for some reason things get messy... 2012-05-29 01:58 at least eeschema.. 2012-05-29 01:58 those are 1k5 (dnp) resistors on the D+ and D- lines? huh? 2012-05-29 01:58 wolfspraul: it's for configuring the port for a full or low-speed device 2012-05-29 01:58 totally unsupported by gateware and firmware, of course :) 2012-05-29 01:58 I don't get it 2012-05-29 01:58 close by powering off computer* 2012-05-29 01:59 DNP means the circuit is open there? 2012-05-29 01:59 it connects to 3V3! 2012-05-29 01:59 the pull up/down configuration depends on whether you have a host, low-speed device, and full-speed device 2012-05-29 01:59 I don't get it, sorry 2012-05-29 01:59 we have only host ports, hence only the pull-downs but no pull-ups 2012-05-29 01:59 that's how USB works :) 2012-05-29 02:00 what this circuit does is give you the choice to configure it for any of these modes, should you choose to do so 2012-05-29 02:00 maybe we should write "full speed client" and "low speed client"? 2012-05-29 02:00 right now one could very easily think this somehow affects full and low speed in host mode 2012-05-29 02:00 but I think it doesn't 2012-05-29 02:00 we could add a comment that it's for configurint the port as a device, yes 2012-05-29 02:00 it's just confusing, to me 2012-05-29 02:01 device, sorry 2012-05-29 02:01 host and device 2012-05-29 02:01 no, host mode is unaffected 2012-05-29 02:01 but that's not obvious 2012-05-29 02:01 it's a common source of confusion :) 2012-05-29 02:01 such is life in usb land :) 2012-05-29 02:01 so then let's write "FULL SPEED DEVICE" and "LOW SPEED DEVICE" instead 2012-05-29 02:01 when i first saw it, i thought someone had misunderstood the USB spec 2012-05-29 02:01 nah come on, that one word can help clarify things. it's not impossible to explain... 2012-05-29 02:01 only then did i realize these were meant as configuration alternatives 2012-05-29 02:02 the lack of clarifying "device" confused me 2012-05-29 02:02 kristianpaul: if you do that, do at least a few sync first :) 2012-05-29 02:02 that's it! 2012-05-29 02:03 1. 'powered' designator 2012-05-29 02:03 2. add maker and type to ics 2012-05-29 02:03 3. small table to clarify power users and current 2012-05-29 02:03 4. clarify decoupling caps polarization 2012-05-29 02:03 i wouldn't touch "powered". it's a cost of living with kicad 2012-05-29 02:04 5. R158-R161 could be documented better/cleaned up 2012-05-29 02:04 but you can try to make a patch that lets eeschema omit things like POWERED and submit it ;-) 2012-05-29 02:04 6. same for R60/R61 2012-05-29 02:05 7. usb device config resistors could be documented better 2012-05-29 02:05 that's it 2012-05-29 02:05 though it may be tricky to get that right. there are other pieces of meta-data you don't want to suppress. and you'd also have to follow the wires, maybe convert junctions, too. etc. it's a bit of work. 2012-05-29 02:05 I feel most strongly about #2 and #3 in this 2012-05-29 02:05 god no, I won't touch that [powered] 2012-05-29 02:05 then I think #4, and #5/#6 should also be possible to improve slightly 2012-05-29 02:05 (((-:C 2012-05-29 02:05 #7 is just adding one word 2012-05-29 02:05 #1 is just ranting 2012-05-29 02:06 but overall the schematics are a joy to read! 2012-05-29 02:06 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 02:06 cladamw: can you help with a power diagram/table? 2012-05-29 02:06 this concludes my feedback :-) 2012-05-29 02:07 kewl. not too bad :) 2012-05-29 02:08 thanks 2012-05-29 02:08 if even I can read that stuff, it's already written for dummies 2012-05-29 02:08 hehe :) 2012-05-29 02:08 the IC maker/type could help even more 2012-05-29 02:09 or, at least in the online PDF, some cool little links to wikipedia one can click on to find out about some background concepts 2012-05-29 02:09 but those are just bells and whistles, plus the PDF has some serious technical shortcomings like text search 2012-05-29 02:10 ability to follow wires by clicking on them 2012-05-29 02:10 etc. 2012-05-29 02:10 some concepts are difficult to convey because they depend on a lot of background. just like that usb pull business. it's a very common source of confusion everywhere. but yes, we can make it a little bit more accessible on our side. 2012-05-29 02:10 (pdf) all things that really need support from kicad itself 2012-05-29 02:10 as I said I feel most strongly about my #2 and #3 2012-05-29 02:10 those are really valuble 2012-05-29 02:10 valuable 2012-05-29 02:10 the small cleanup is always nice too 2012-05-29 02:10 polarity, dnp resistors, etc 2012-05-29 02:10 wpwrak, wolfspraul do you mean like this ? http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_Power_Tree 2012-05-29 02:11 another thing that would be nice to clear up would be to have chip pin numbers on all the bypass caps :) we have that now for the RAM 2012-05-29 02:12 yes, although that also doesn't include the mystery 4V3 user :-) 2012-05-29 02:12 but yes, that's what I mean just integrated nicely as a little table or so in the "power supply" schematics page 2012-05-29 02:12 and it was a pretty good lesson - before these things weren't there, which led to a good amount of weirdness and miscommunication with layout. fortunately, harmless. this time. 2012-05-29 02:12 right now we have a set of regulators and circuits prepping this or that voltage 2012-05-29 02:12 but little info on where this goes, current, overview 2012-05-29 02:13 definitely [chip pin numbers for bypass caps] 2012-05-29 02:14 maybe the power tree needs updating. i see that it still has that ancient noisy codec 2012-05-29 02:14 maybe we can move it into the schematics? 2012-05-29 02:14 remove from wiki? 2012-05-29 02:14 that should be possible, yes 2012-05-29 02:15 not to remove it now, i think that i can use KiCad editor to edit a new power tree. 2012-05-29 02:16 a power tree i can equip them with power net name, chip reference, circuit block and etc. 2012-05-29 02:17 regards to chip pin numbers with bypass caps, i'll also clean them up. 2012-05-29 02:17 i would put the circuit block before the chip reference. less intimidating :) 2012-05-29 02:17 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2012-05-29 02:18 the chip pin name don't need to be accurately same as current m1rc3 if later m1r[4..n] producing. 2012-05-29 02:19 for examples two 100nF placed to pin 1 and pin 19, layout guy can place whatever 100nF to pin1 or pin19, 2012-05-29 02:20 we made unclear and unreadable in previous runs. 2012-05-29 02:20 wpwrak: no it not 2012-05-29 02:20 i still deleted same components 2012-05-29 02:20 save 2012-05-29 02:20 rsync 2012-05-29 02:20 close kicad 2012-05-29 02:20 no poweroff 2012-05-29 02:20 re-open 2012-05-29 02:20 (pin 1 vs. 19) well, it shouldn't cause much work for the layout guys either way :) 2012-05-29 02:20 and got EESchema file text load error at line 788 2012-05-29 02:20 (circuit block) wpwrak ? 2012-05-29 02:20 hmm 2012-05-29 02:21 and now there are lots of missing components on the screen... 2012-05-29 02:22 cladamw: yes, good! 2012-05-29 02:22 of course, first make a new and clean version in kicad before removing the wiki one 2012-05-29 02:22 now that we have kicad, we have a better place for this info than the wiki 2012-05-29 02:22 cladamw: i mean "Audio LM4550BVH" looks nicer than "LM4550BVH Audio". 2012-05-29 02:22 before we needed the wiki to have any place outside of the dark and closed AD files :-) 2012-05-29 02:23 kristianpaul: did you use a weird character in some name ? 2012-05-29 02:23 wpwrak, okay. :) 2012-05-29 02:23 wpwrak: let me see, but this wasnt happening before the component cutoff.. 2012-05-29 02:25 nope 2012-05-29 02:25 just can see 3 components right now afaik, 2012-05-29 02:25 the rest wires and nodes.. 2012-05-29 02:27 can you paste line 788 and its context ? 2012-05-29 02:28 is empty.. 2012-05-29 02:28 aparently 2012-05-29 02:29 and what is around it ? 2012-05-29 02:30 http://paste.debian.net/171665/ 2012-05-29 02:33 is very curious, after check the diff with tig, i noticed new text when i just removed compoments why?.. 2012-05-29 02:34 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-29 02:35 [commit] Adam Wang: tsop.fpd: added new TSOP module (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/dfcaa9d 2012-05-29 02:35 hum 2012-05-29 02:35 looks like a bug 2012-05-29 02:36 i just deleted one block now and the same error popup.. 2012-05-29 02:36 kristianpaul: it gets better: pick a text comment. double-click to edit the text. delete it. then press OK. you'll get "Empty text !". and then kicad segfaults ;-) 2012-05-29 02:36 (at least here) 2012-05-29 02:37 dont cheerme up that much ;) 2012-05-29 02:37 perhaps you can recover it by putting some text in the empty line with a text editor 2012-05-29 02:37 i'll try found root cause 2012-05-29 02:37 by trial and error :) 2012-05-29 02:37 wpwrak, would you mind if I outline frame to your header or he10 module ? 2012-05-29 02:38 s/I/I add 2012-05-29 02:38 cladamw meant: "wpwrak, would you mind if I add outline frame to your header or he10 module ?" 2012-05-29 02:38 or try another versio perhaps? this is 2011-05-25 2012-05-29 02:38 wpwrak, are you qi-bot ? hehe ... 2012-05-29 02:40 (mind) not at all. i've just been lazy :) 2012-05-29 02:42 putting some text in the empty line seems works, but how many empty lines left :) 2012-05-29 02:42 perhaps i need sed help 2012-05-29 02:43 wpwrak, also since a dedicated pin number 1, 2, or n, (n-1) there would be good. :) 2012-05-29 02:44 you mean to mark #1 ? the default kicad lib uses quare pins for #1, round for the rest 2012-05-29 02:44 argh, EESchema file undefined object at line 2012-05-29 02:44 better replace not remove empty spaces.. 2012-05-29 02:44 wpwrak, i'd like a feature for Fped. i.e. place number (txt) in outline, can it be now ? 2012-05-29 02:44 no, it can't do text 2012-05-29 02:45 Can KiCad do #n, #n-1 ? 2012-05-29 02:45 lemme see ... 2012-05-29 02:46 xwalk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-05-29 02:46 hmm .... i was thought your pin# can be shown inside solder paste in Fped, but can't add number text in outline in the future ? 2012-05-29 02:46 yeah, the module editor has text 2012-05-29 02:47 hmm ... alright. 2012-05-29 02:47 i only show the pin number as non-physical text (i.e., something pcbnew shows but that doesn't go to the gerber) 2012-05-29 02:48 the problem with supporting text that goes to the gerber would be matching kicad's fonts and such. tricky. 2012-05-29 02:48 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-05-29 02:48 if yours(Fped) can do, that would be super ole. 2012-05-29 02:48 ha 2012-05-29 02:49