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[#qi-hardware] 2012-05-25 03:47 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 04:14 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-05-25 04:16 cladamw has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2012-05-25 04:26 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 04:41 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 2012-05-25 04:43 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 04:45 Jay7x is now known as Jay7 2012-05-25 04:56 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-05-25 05:05 xwalk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2012-05-25 05:08 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 05:10 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 05:26 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 05:30 kyak has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2012-05-25 05:30 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 05:32 phirs230 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 05:34 phirsch has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2012-05-25 05:42 antgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-05-25 06:24 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 06:42 jluis|work has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 07:12 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 2012-05-25 07:18 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 07:32 GeorgeH has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-05-25 08:06 jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 08:31 wej has quit [K-Lined] 2012-05-25 08:38 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 08:55 zedstar_ is now known as zedstar 2012-05-25 08:56 zedstar has quit [Changing host] 2012-05-25 08:56 zedstar has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 09:00 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-05-25 09:15 jivs has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 09:19 viric has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-05-25 09:19 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 09:27 reading about TI launchpad.. it has "touch-sense enabled I/Os" - wtf is that? 2012-05-25 09:28 well, MSP430G* has it.. i'm confused by "touch sense" 2012-05-25 09:30 lindi-_ is now known as lindi- 2012-05-25 09:30 kyak: it probably means that someone figured out a way to connect a capacitative sensor 2012-05-25 09:32 kyak: the leanest solution i've seen so far comes from atmel: just the internal ADC and a series resistor. and i suspect you don't need that resistor. so it's not all *that* demanding in the hw side :) 2012-05-25 09:33 wpwrak: ok, it's clear, thanks! so probably "touch sense I/O" is just a marketing word :) 2012-05-25 09:34 i could resist ordering it.. damn, it's so cheap 2012-05-25 09:34 shipping included 2012-05-25 09:35 the real cost is in the development effort :) 2012-05-25 09:36 at least, with a ben and ubb, you can easily make your own programmer (if they document the in-circuit programming protocol) 2012-05-25 09:36 well, i could run mspdebug on Ben 2012-05-25 09:37 and program launchpad easily without knowing the programming protocol, right? 2012-05-25 09:37 whatever works, as long as it works :) 2012-05-25 09:47 jivs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-05-25 09:47 wpwrak, http://dpaste.com/752070/ 2012-05-25 09:49 when I searched 'package drawing' and 'land pattern' for Analog Device, Wolfson, Maxim, SiLabs about QFP48, i got some info so that I recorded INFO there. 2012-05-25 09:50 you should also mention the conclusion. e.g., if they agree 2012-05-25 09:51 at the end of the day, a lot of those footprints correspond to some JEDEC standard. but there's a crazily large number of variants 2012-05-25 09:51 MAXIM has great completed lists about all package drawings and land patterns, AD has few but not completed. Micrel/Wolfson even has very poor on collecting land pattern. 2012-05-25 09:51 wolfson also have some rather crazy variants ;-) 2012-05-25 09:54 e.g., page 13 of http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/WAN0118.pdf 2012-05-25 09:55 to finish m1r4's total three QFP48 parts(WM9707, KS8001, ADV7125), i did almost 99.5% done roughly but i merged your qfp.fpd --> 2012-05-25 09:55 http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/adam/m1/tmp/kicad/qfp.fpd 2012-05-25 09:58 i now very feel uncomfortable to wolfson, even AD, i very like Maxim's data base. so we could change a little dimensions based on datasheet's package drawings, if chip vendor has less info on land pattern, then i recommend to refer to Maxim, then to meet footprint reasonably. 2012-05-25 09:59 methril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-05-25 09:59 i found our m1r4's WM9707 and KS8001 both has the same package drawing.(almost :-) ) 2012-05-25 10:00 maxim's pas length seems to be a bit excessively long, while ad's seems a bit on the sort side. (maxim+AD)/2 would seem about right ;-)) 2012-05-25 10:00 s/sort/short 2012-05-25 10:00 wpwrak meant: "maxim's pas length seems to be a bit excessively long, while ad's seems a bit on the short side. (maxim+AD)/2 would seem about right ;-))" 2012-05-25 10:00 s/ pas / pad 2012-05-25 10:00 wpwrak meant: "maxim's pad length seems to be a bit excessively long, while ad's seems a bit on the short side. (maxim+AD)/2 would seem about right ;-))" 2012-05-25 10:01 yeah ... 2012-05-25 10:03 wpwrak, my qfp.fpd includes your SiLabs C8051F32x, but named "QFP$pins-$variant", do you think this naming is okay to you ? 2012-05-25 10:03 the maxim is in truth a JEDEC MS-026 BBA or BBC 2012-05-25 10:05 BBA for 32pins, BBC for 48pins. 2012-05-25 10:05 yes, i think maxim did a great work on them(almost the whole package, else chip vendors may not) 2012-05-25 10:05 yes, sounds good. without a proper reference, i'd consider the silabs thing a pseudo-vendor standard anyway 2012-05-25 10:06 BBA/BBC ah, right. maybe we can even get rid of the silabs critter then ... but lemme first check the 48 pin packages 2012-05-25 10:07 i find NXP very good. they have a weird naming scheme (they have a "SOT-xxxx" code for each package, which is not the same as what the rest of the world calls "SOT", but they adhere quite strictly to standards) 2012-05-25 10:08 if i didn't use your this Fped to edit correct land pattern, i'll never known how else famous chip vendors they are poor in such info collection referred to JEDEC or IPC. :-) 2012-05-25 10:08 (NXP) even better, they often specify reflow and wave soldering footprints. than often explains apparently crazy variations in other vendor's footprints - they may use some ancient wave soldering footprint 2012-05-25 10:09 ;-))) 2012-05-25 10:09 aha ... NXP, I've not digged into it now. since I started to build module one-by-one from wiki m1r4 bom. so maybe later I'll definitely run into NXP. :-) 2012-05-25 10:10 NXP also have some helpful background information. e.g., i found their design rules for QFN quite helpful, which include the solder paste islands and such 2012-05-25 10:10 so if you don't mind, I'll commit my qfp.fpd, but you may need to update your project used qfp.fpd. 2012-05-25 10:11 alright 2012-05-25 10:11 methril has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 10:11 mmm .... a more solder paste info is useful, nice news. I'll see it. 2012-05-25 10:12 man~ hehe ... i found i spent 2 days to work on this (qfp) but seems worthy and also learnt a lot that how your table v.s. vector works. :-) 2012-05-25 10:13 QFP48 of maxim and AD have an identical package, only maxim have +/- 0.1 mm while AD have +/- 0.2 mm for D/E/D1/E1. L is the same. 2012-05-25 10:13 so we should have only one footprint for maxim and AD 2012-05-25 10:14 that is, there should be an MS-026-BBC footprint that applies to both 2012-05-25 10:14 AD's (ST-48) land pattern is horrible, must be no one their internal to double confirm. 2012-05-25 10:14 my it was an "intern" who made it ;-) 2012-05-25 10:14 s/my/maybe/ 2012-05-25 10:14 wpwrak meant: "maybe it was an "intern" who made it ;-)" 2012-05-25 10:19 yeah, the AD pattern looks like trouble. at least the chip would just fit if you have the minimum values for D/E ;-) 2012-05-25 10:20 [commit] Adam Wang: qfp.fpd: added Maxim C48 and Analog Device ST-48 variant (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/bd5c1c3 2012-05-25 10:20 [commit] Adam Wang: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:kicad-libs (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/61fecbd 2012-05-25 10:21 i'd get rid of the AD pattern. there's no point in keeping that footprint if it's obviously wrong 2012-05-25 10:21 wpwrak, i think later we fix AD variant, meanwhile I'll go for another, if you see any err, let me know. 2012-05-25 10:21 aha ... okay 2012-05-25 10:21 wait ... 2012-05-25 10:23 i would just rename the Maxim_C48 to something like MS025BBC. or maybe just call it "QFP48" or "LQFP48" without variant, since this seems to be the "standard" size anyway 2012-05-25 10:23 you can then put references to suitable chips / vendor packages and footprints in INFO 2012-05-25 10:23 Guest12542 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 10:24 I printed out a set of m1 schematics on paper for medidation 2012-05-25 10:24 hehe :) 2012-05-25 10:25 paper is great for reviewing. you see a log more than on the screen 2012-05-25 10:25 will put it under my pillow 2012-05-25 10:25 see whether that helps :-) 2012-05-25 10:25 but anyway, first thing that struck me again is lack of page numbers 2012-05-25 10:25 so I had to number them by hand 2012-05-25 10:25 interesting approach for information acquisition :) 2012-05-25 10:26 the font is a little on the small side, but just readable 2012-05-25 10:26 unlike say the m1-gps-extension :-) 2012-05-25 10:26 yeah, we should label the pages. maybe not with numbers but with short names 2012-05-25 10:26 but a bit bigger would be nice 2012-05-25 10:26 (readable) that's A3 sheets for you :) 2012-05-25 10:26 but overall it's really nice already, given that many schematics don't print at all or with all sorts of issues 2012-05-25 10:27 nah it fits nicely on A4, all fine 2012-05-25 10:27 and there is space for the font to be bigger 2012-05-25 10:27 but the #1 issue is lack of page numbers, lack of license or any form of attribution 2012-05-25 10:27 hmm. if you auto-scale the fonts, a lot of things will start to look weird 2012-05-25 10:28 the fonts have some readability issues, though. they could look better at exactly the same size 2012-05-25 10:28 #1 issue is page numbers, license, attribution 2012-05-25 10:28 should we just write something manually on each page? 2012-05-25 10:29 perhaps some bold individual could write a converter that takes each text field, calculates the exact size with the original font, then places a PS font scaled to just that size (aspect rate not necessarily 1:1) instead 2012-05-25 10:29 I also printed out the (quite simple) atben page, that one looks even better, I guess the fonts come out a bit bigger 2012-05-25 10:29 but the atben one is also missing any form of license, copyright or attribution 2012-05-25 10:30 i use A4 sheets, so the font has the "natural" size 2012-05-25 10:30 that's sad 2012-05-25 10:30 the creators should be honored :-) 2012-05-25 10:31 the author is in the little text box in the corner, if you have that one (schhist suppresses it to avoid cluttering things even more than they already are) 2012-05-25 10:31 yes, I know 2012-05-25 10:31 but that box is ugly and overloaded and we disable it for a reason in schhist 2012-05-25 10:31 yeah :) 2012-05-25 10:31 but maybe we should write *something* manually instead? 2012-05-25 10:32 otherwise it's just totally blank, which is also not right 2012-05-25 10:32 dunno. perhaps in the case of M1, since it has a big overview sheet already 2012-05-25 10:32 I wouldn't mind if schhist picked up a textual change, that would also be the case already now for notes 2012-05-25 10:32 overview yes, but again 2012-05-25 10:32 for smaller projects, it would just add more clutter 2012-05-25 10:32 absolutely nothing about license, creators, copyright, attribution 2012-05-25 10:33 it's like something that fell from the sky 2012-05-25 10:33 one question about atben 2012-05-25 10:33 the RFP and RFN wires are swapped 2012-05-25 10:33 the default is "no rights, no copying" so you have to look in the project (which you'll have to do if you're going to do anything interesting with the schematics anyway) 2012-05-25 10:33 is there a technical reason for that, or just a random effect of the drawing? 2012-05-25 10:34 maybe turning B1 upside down would be even uglier? don't know 2012-05-25 10:35 maybe you could just turn the right side of B1 upside down? 2012-05-25 10:35 i did it this way to help with the layout 2012-05-25 10:35 those pin numbers don't look like on the device anyway 2012-05-25 10:35 layout? 2012-05-25 10:36 the crossing. but yes, i could have flipped B1 and then uncrossed RFP/RFN 2012-05-25 10:37 what does the /RF in C1/C2 stand for? 2012-05-25 10:37 I mean what parameters are we watching for in those caps? 2012-05-25 10:38 [commit] Adam Wang: qfp.fpd: get rid of the AD land patter and rename variant to name (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/d4be1a4 2012-05-25 10:38 my schematics have the balun drawn like in atmel's reference design. (but atmel don't cross RFP/RFN) 2012-05-25 10:38 the R1 is 0R, and C12 is NC - is this left purely for tweaking & playing reasons? 2012-05-25 10:38 C1/C2 good question ;-) the parameters we're "watching" for are somewhere three to four orders of magnitude beyond the parameters whet component makers actually specify 2012-05-25 10:38 on the RF path, I think at least I would feel better if there would be a note like "can safely be removed" if that is so 2012-05-25 10:38 s/whet/the 2012-05-25 10:39 wpwrak meant: "C1/C2 good question ;-) the parameters we're "watching" for are somewhere three to four orders of magnitude beyond the parameters the component makers actually specify" 2012-05-25 10:39 otherwise one might thing that whatever effect is meant to be achieved with those 0R or even the NC pads :-) 2012-05-25 10:39 might think 2012-05-25 10:39 having a place for inductors and caps at the antenna side is a common arrangement for matching 2012-05-25 10:40 and yes, if you make your own derivative design, you're free to omit them :) 2012-05-25 10:40 during design maybe, ok. but I think a note "can be removed" would clarify things, no? 2012-05-25 10:40 since this is on the RF path 2012-05-25 10:40 there are always implementation details like this that creep into schematics. schematics aren't expositions of pure theory :) 2012-05-25 10:40 otherwise I can lookup 20 effects at least that one 'might' want to achieve with a 0R resistor, or the empty pads 2012-05-25 10:40 [commit] Adam Wang: INFO: removed AD QFP info (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/6c2655c 2012-05-25 10:41 my question is: should we add a note "can be removed"? 2012-05-25 10:41 naw, i think it's just a question of recognizing that pattern. it's common in RF design 2012-05-25 10:41 I think that may be helpful, if that is what was last in the designers mind about R1 and C12 2012-05-25 10:42 sure 2012-05-25 10:42 I think you don't understand my point :-) 2012-05-25 10:42 you'll even find some that have something like four caps and such there. atben is very light on obscure RF critters :) 2012-05-25 10:42 not 'obscure' 2012-05-25 10:42 you design it, you have some state of your thinking about the design 2012-05-25 10:42 that is either conveyed through the schematics or not 2012-05-25 10:42 yes, but that's basic RF design knowledge 2012-05-25 10:42 it seems that right now you are not aware of any effect of R1 or (the NC) C12 2012-05-25 10:43 if you don't know what these parts are not essential, then you probably shouldn't remove them anyway, because your circuit may need tuning ;-) 2012-05-25 10:43 alrigh then, I tried :-) 2012-05-25 10:44 so the /RF then? 2012-05-25 10:44 it stands for? 2012-05-25 10:45 i know their effect (in general terms). it's for adding small inductances or small capacitances to adjust the properties of that signal path. there are incidental parameters we don't know. so if one goes off the scale, we may need too tweak things 2012-05-25 10:45 sure but your design is stable and works 2012-05-25 10:45 the /RF means that the caps are specifically designated for RF applications 2012-05-25 10:45 unfortunately, that's about as good as it gets, in terms of specifics 2012-05-25 10:46 you could put even more matching networks there and leave them all empty, but what would be the point? 2012-05-25 10:46 by leaving R1 and C12 there you want to remind people that the matching is not done properly? 2012-05-25 10:46 :-) 2012-05-25 10:47 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 10:47 sure. i have a basic matching network there. if you have other means to accomplish the same or if you're certain you don't need one, then drop it by all means 2012-05-25 10:47 how do you source the caps then, with /RF in digikey? 2012-05-25 10:47 yes [matching] 2012-05-25 10:47 but it seems that R1 and C12 are not needed 2012-05-25 10:48 so leaving them there may add confusion 2012-05-25 10:48 someone with enough RF experience will easily know how and where to add matching networks anyway 2012-05-25 10:48 but leaving those seemingly unneeded R1 and C12 there conveys a strange message, at least to me 2012-05-25 10:48 R1 and C12 remind people that RF is tricky. e.g., if you add some case, you may find that the device is detuned. then you need to make adjustments. 2012-05-25 10:49 he 2012-05-25 10:49 that I fully understand 2012-05-25 10:49 of course, if you're able to make meaningful adjustments, it's rather likely that you understand what R1 and C12 mean :) 2012-05-25 10:49 but trying to get that across by leaving two unused parts there is strange :-) 2012-05-25 10:49 well that's the thing, they mean nothing 2012-05-25 10:49 I guess 2012-05-25 10:49 it's pretty much standard practice 2012-05-25 10:49 from your answer 2012-05-25 10:50 standard practice is to leave one empty resistor and one empty/nc cap as a reminder for a matching network? 2012-05-25 10:50 I will pay attention to that 2012-05-25 10:50 they're not only reminders. they have real-life footprints. 2012-05-25 10:51 i need these components in the schematics for kicad to know what to do with the footprints. 2012-05-25 10:51 you think someone may want to put a part there if they add a case? 2012-05-25 10:52 and that's standard on an RF path to leave some slots for matching parts? 2012-05-25 10:52 doesn't sound very credible to me, but I will keep an eye on it 2012-05-25 10:53 you wouldn't be able to predict what parts are needed, and in fact the empty pads themselves may be the source of uncertainties 2012-05-25 10:53 (case) yes, or if they want to optimize the circuit further. e.g., there may be RF leakage issues i'm not aware of. my lab isn't set up to do full FCC compliance testing. 2012-05-25 10:53 sure 2012-05-25 10:53 that I understand 2012-05-25 10:53 hmm, i had typed "complicance". thank you, Freud :) 2012-05-25 10:53 but you cannot predict whether that one resistor and one cap is what you will need 2012-05-25 10:54 it looks a little helpless, unless this is really a common way to do it that I'm not aware of 2012-05-25 10:54 but I'm learning, and now I will pay attention to this 2012-05-25 10:54 and yes, leaving slots is common, particularly in designs that may experience environmental variations or experiments 2012-05-25 10:54 wpwrak, do you have SOIC module ? i saw SSOP but seems no SOIC. if you have it, point me the link. tks. :-) 2012-05-25 10:54 back to the /RF cap - so how do you source it then? 2012-05-25 10:55 I should look into the sources, sorry haven't done that yet 2012-05-25 10:55 if you need a more complex matching network, you'll need a redesign anyway. but L and C (the R is really a placeholder for an L) are your starting point 2012-05-25 10:55 just noticed the /RF and didn't know what it means 2012-05-25 10:55 yes, I know 2012-05-25 10:55 it seems half-baked to me 2012-05-25 10:56 the /RF selects a part that has the X=RF field set. "X" is a field for "additional characteristics". so when building my characteristics database, i set that field for caps from an "RF" series 2012-05-25 10:56 hmm 2012-05-25 10:56 I see 2012-05-25 10:56 just from that series 2012-05-25 10:56 without going into the specifics of the parameters 2012-05-25 10:56 jivs has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 10:57 the quantitative parameters don't really help 2012-05-25 10:57 they tell you how the part behaves at, say, 1 MHz. we're running it at 2.4 GHz. 2012-05-25 10:58 but the vendor stating that it's for HF, microwave, RF, whatever, tells you that you're less likely to experience nasty surprises with that part than with one that's not rated for such uses 2012-05-25 10:58 nasty surprises may including one batch working just fine and the next not 2012-05-25 10:58 and yes, it looks very half-baked to me too :) 2012-05-25 10:59 wpwrak, if no SOIC module, i'll build it same likely SSOP. :-) 2012-05-25 10:59 cladamw: (SOIC) lemme see if i have any of those fat pigs somewhere ... 2012-05-25 11:00 nope, don't think so 2012-05-25 11:01 xwalk has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-05-25 11:01 wpwrak, yeah ... i didn't find it after searching wernermisc and ben-wpan. tks. :-) 2012-05-25 11:03 cladamw has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2012-05-25 11:12 wolfspraul: (RF caps) here's a typical collection of such critters: http://www.johansontechnology.com/images/stories/catalog/JTI_CAT_2012_MLCC_HighQ.pdf 2012-05-25 11:12 note the "DIELECTRIC" table on page 1. "ultra high Q", "high Q", ... 2012-05-25 11:14 and then you go to page 10, to learn that all NP0 have Q >1,000 @ 1 MHz, Typical 10,000 2012-05-25 11:15 and that's all you get. you just have to trust them that they'll also behave in multi-GHz circuits :) 2012-05-25 11:22 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 11:29 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2012-05-25 11:33 some other descriptions read "ultra-high Q", "mid-high Q", and "excellent high Q". some engineering poetry, i guess :) 2012-05-25 11:38 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 11:47 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-05-25 11:49 DocScrutinizer has quit [Disconnected by services] 2012-05-25 11:49 DocScrutinizer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 11:51 interesting .. the silabs LQFP32 is 0.1 mm smaller than the maxim (JEDEC 95 MS-026 BBA) part 2012-05-25 11:51 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 11:52 yet silabs claim their is MS-026 BBA, too :) 2012-05-25 11:52 s/their/theirs 2012-05-25 11:52 wpwrak meant: "yet silabs claim theirs is MS-026 BBA, too :)" 2012-05-25 11:53 ah, no. they're the same. confused the column of typical with maximal sizes. 2012-05-25 12:02 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-05-25 12:02 jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-05-25 12:11 jluis|work has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2012-05-25 12:12 heh. we could express all this in terms of the IPC-7351 formulas :) 2012-05-25 12:14 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-05-25 12:34 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 12:39 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-05-25 12:42 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 13:10 they are tiny but i still can read on my screen 2012-05-25 13:11 btw i'll add license, already agreed one with Artyom, but just a license.txt file or also add in the sheet? 2012-05-25 13:15 start with license.txt that's great 2012-05-25 13:15 look how long it took you to even find out what it is :-) 2012-05-25 13:16 you like i separate the "blocks" in sheets? 2012-05-25 13:16 anyway after the cutoff just the half will remain.. 2012-05-25 13:18 erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 13:18 wolfspraul: the license you mean? 2012-05-25 13:18 or the font? 2012-05-25 13:20 erghh i cant search in those pdf.. 2012-05-25 13:21 license 2012-05-25 13:21 obviously knowing the license is by far more important than size of font, no? :-) 2012-05-25 13:22 so one by one. seems the license and copyright info for m1-gps-extension is clear now? great! 2012-05-25 13:22 yes, share a like by license is 2012-05-25 13:22 what I was talking about in the m1 and ben-wpan was at another level, because as wpwrak already said the license and copyright is clear there, just the pdf is a little unspecific on those things 2012-05-25 13:22 i se 2012-05-25 13:22 e 2012-05-25 13:30 better write license as a schematic component, so that way is kept 2012-05-25 13:34 cladamw has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2012-05-25 13:37 kristoffer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 13:50 jivs has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 13:57 lg_quassel is now known as losinggeneration 2012-05-25 14:02 paroneayea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-05-25 14:02 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 14:05 paroneayea has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 14:07 jivs has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 14:19 Ayla has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-05-25 14:20 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 14:23 (license as component) that's an interesting idea :) lemme see if you can actually make it such that it doesn't end up on the BOM by default 2012-05-25 14:26 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 14:28 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 14:28 yeah. make its component reference start with # and set the field (reference) to invisible. that should do the trick. 2012-05-25 14:34 jekhor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-05-25 14:50 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 15:25 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 15:25 jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 15:30 jekhor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-05-25 15:59 jluis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2012-05-25 16:13 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 16:13 [commit] Jiva Nath Bagale: fixed guile2 Makefile to use guile from toolchain instead of host machine (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e88e68e 2012-05-25 16:26 jivs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2012-05-25 16:29 kyak: adc from launchpad plus a nice plotting app in the nanonote (i guess we already have) 2012-05-25 16:30 msp430 have adc/dac i read somwhere.. 2012-05-25 16:30 kyak: looks interesting idea for uses in the field.. 2012-05-25 16:30 s/field/wild? 2012-05-25 16:30 kristianpaul meant: "kyak: looks interesting idea for uses in the wild?.." 2012-05-25 16:42 kristianpaul: there already a python+gnuplot plotting script here: http://losinggeneration.homelinux.org/2010/07/02/msp430-launchpad-on-linux/. Both python and gnuplot are available on Ben, so it should work :) 2012-05-25 16:42 nice 2012-05-25 16:43 it seems that the USB connection is not very reliable.. You have to replug every time, as mentioned here: http://dbindner.freeshell.org/msp430/index.html#Talking_to_MSP430 2012-05-25 16:43 also mspdebug only work via USB as i understand 2012-05-25 16:43 kyak: I can vouch for it being less than reliable :) 2012-05-25 16:44 it tought over uart as well.. shame 2012-05-25 16:44 so probably there is a need for another software programmer, as werner mentioned 2012-05-25 16:45 losinggeneration: do you have an idea what might be the problem? 2012-05-25 16:47 off the top of my head: no. It's actually been quite some time since I've last picked up the launchpad, so I can't recall the exact issue besides it not working well without unplugging it and plugging it back in 2012-05-25 16:49 it will lead to loose usb connector and unusable board at the end 2012-05-25 16:49 IIRC it was acting as if the connection to the device was blocked 2012-05-25 16:51 pehaps is because uart is emulated in software? 2012-05-25 16:51 perhaps* 2012-05-25 16:52 first time i pluged the thing, my ubuntu freezed for about 10 seconds :-| 2012-05-25 16:52 perhaps is a cdc running in other TI MCU.? 2012-05-25 16:56 [commit] Werner Almesberger: bacon/prog/: simple PIC 18F{2,4}xJxx programmer (for the Ben Nanonote) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/6bdfea6 2012-05-25 16:56 ah no 2012-05-25 16:56 kyak: this may be useful as an example: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/bacon/prog/ 2012-05-25 16:57 it have its own Serial-to-USB chip 2012-05-25 17:04 qwebirc12081 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 17:04 qwebirc12081 is now known as rjeffries 2012-05-25 17:05 This program sounds interesting. Will it work on a Ben NN? http://www.kiwix.org/index.php/Main_Page 2012-05-25 17:08 there was a reader for kiwix on the ben 2012-05-25 17:08 actually need some loving.. 2012-05-25 17:09 but keep in mind the interesting and long process involve get those mediawifi offline files, they even require a server farm :) 2012-05-25 17:10 in the other side there is humane project, who developed what seems an easy/fast alternative 2012-05-25 17:10 zrafa from #jlime ported it 2012-05-25 17:10 to nanonote's muffiman, i think is on qi wiki if you wanna try 2012-05-25 17:12 kristianpaul agree extraction the conent is a lot of work. but once done (maybe every 3 months or so) the value of access to wikipedia offline seems Most Excellent. OTOH the other offshoot of OM offers a purpose built off-like reader, and seems to not be thriving 2012-05-25 17:12 s/qi/jlime 2012-05-25 17:12 kristianpaul meant: "to nanonote's muffiman, i think is on jlime wiki if you wanna try" 2012-05-25 17:12 I guess this is not all that interesting. fair enough. 2012-05-25 17:13 rjeffries: no work, is already there, well not using zim files but it is 2012-05-25 17:13 check jlime.com 2012-05-25 17:14 emeb has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-05-25 17:16 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 17:17 Guest12542 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 17:27 jurting has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-05-25 17:28 wpwrak: thanks for sharing! 2012-05-25 17:37 kristianpaul as you prolly know, I do not own a Ben. But thanks. I don't need an offline reader for myself, but it seems like a cool idea maybe for kids? 2012-05-25 17:40 yes i'm aware ;-) 2012-05-25 17:47 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 17:50 Martix has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 17:51 Guest12542 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2012-05-25 18:01 phirs230 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-05-25 18:02 phirsch_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 18:10 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2012-05-25 18:36 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 18:38 methril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 18:50 methril has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 19:26 mth: what do you do with zram in the dingoo? Allocate 32MB of swap? 2012-05-25 19:30 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 19:52 urandom__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 19:52 Jay7 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-05-25 19:52 Jay7 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 20:03 methril has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2012-05-25 20:15 methril has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 20:22 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-05-25 20:30 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 20:32 erikkugel has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2012-05-25 20:38 antgreen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-05-25 20:54 xwalk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-05-25 21:15 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 21:24 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 21:25 GNUtoo-desktop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 21:32 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 21:38 kilae has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 2012-05-25 21:42 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 21:56 Textmode has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 22:00 rjeffries has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2012-05-25 22:05 The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120524-1615 2012-05-25 22:17 GNUtoo-desktop has quit [Quit: [INFO] fsogsmd : received signal -11, exiting.] 2012-05-25 22:18 viric: less than 32 MB, but we do use it as swap 2012-05-25 22:19 the dingoo also has 32MB of ram? 2012-05-25 22:19 yes 2012-05-25 22:19 we create a 20MB swap by default 2012-05-25 22:20 kristoffer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-05-25 22:20 how much ram that takes? 2012-05-25 22:21 worst case 20MB of course, I don't know average case 2012-05-25 22:21 a lot of software doesn't swap at all 2012-05-25 22:22 Ayla was the one who introduced zram, maybe he knows more 2012-05-25 22:23 ok 2012-05-25 22:23 I remember I couldn't run 'g++' to build a simple program :) 2012-05-25 22:23 and I had to add some swap 2012-05-25 22:23 well, it was swapping with the read only pages of the images 2012-05-25 22:24 but I did not have any 'paging' for writeable pages 2012-05-25 22:31 methril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2012-05-25 22:43 methril has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 22:55 methril has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2012-05-25 23:09 methril has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 23:32 [commit] Werner Almesberger: change use of curly braces with "if-else" to kernel style (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/424b74e 2012-05-25 23:32 [commit] Werner Almesberger: inst.h (FOR_PKG_INSTS): protect against active_pkg == NULL (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/b06ed92 2012-05-25 23:32 [commit] Werner Almesberger: make active package track active variables (for the GUI) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/e0351bd 2012-05-25 23:46 xwalk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2012-05-25 23:47 crosswalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 23:48 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-05-25 23:48 xwalk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2012-05-25 23:48 crosswalk has quit [Client Quit] 2012-05-25 23:49 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware