2012-04-12 00:13 roh: hi morning :-) 2012-04-12 00:14 sorry I missed you yesterday but actually wanted to ask: have you ever experimented with any form of epoxy polymer to seal/enclose electronics? 2012-04-12 00:14 I'm thinking about my atben/atusb and how I can make them more rugged 2012-04-12 00:15 just want to dip them in some epoxy blob, or even superglue if that would work :-) 2012-04-12 00:26 wolfspraul: hey 2012-04-12 00:27 nope... epoxy is quite nasty, heavy and one cannot repair stuff when glued anymore 2012-04-12 00:27 well.. i used it to glue stuff, but not as case 2012-04-12 00:29 how heavy? 2012-04-12 00:29 which specific epoxies did you try with? 2012-04-12 00:29 about 'no repair', sure, I understand 2012-04-12 00:30 if the case is really good, maybe no repair needed :-) 2012-04-12 00:30 just kidding, but the one-way aspect of epoxy of course is clear 2012-04-12 00:31 same as first-level IC packaging or ultrasonic welding 2012-04-12 00:35 for my atben & atusb, I'm sure i just want to seal them and done, don't know what I would ever want to touch on the atben/atusb board 2012-04-12 00:41 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 00:51 cladamw: good morning :-) 2012-04-12 00:51 I saw that xiangfu was also starting to edit the board design now, great 2012-04-12 00:51 that gives me hope we can finish faster... 2012-04-12 00:53 yeah ... pipelines in qi. :-) 2012-04-12 00:54 wolfspraul: kinds... mostly 2-component glue stuff 2012-04-12 00:54 i havent used moldable stuff like 2-component PU or similars 2012-04-12 00:54 its on my list of stuff to try 2012-04-12 00:54 yeah, that's what I was getting at 2012-04-12 00:55 i was thinking.. fuck cases... lets use whats there 2012-04-12 00:55 I remember years ago Tully gave me a dvd from some US epoxy/resin manufacturer, that was very impressive to watch 2012-04-12 00:55 unfortunately I forgot the company name 2012-04-12 00:55 just use something.. exact form doesnt matter, as long as we can buy it and know how it works. its only mechanics. we can design our own when we do 5-digit numbers 2012-04-12 00:56 may look a bit 80s, but whats with teko and boppla cases or so? 2012-04-12 00:56 I agree conceptually, but when you start you still run into things that are really important to you 2012-04-12 00:56 oh absolutely 2012-04-12 00:56 or are you really thinking nanonote-style? 2012-04-12 00:56 I am 100% with you 2012-04-12 00:56 absolutely not 2012-04-12 00:56 I think just what is practical and what works, in *our* priority scale 2012-04-12 00:56 for example the current atben/atusb boards are a pain, so fragile! 2012-04-12 00:56 i mean... i see droid devices flying by for sub 100E now 2012-04-12 00:57 but I have a big tube of cyanoacrylate right here :-) 2012-04-12 00:57 another thing i think we should tackle 2012-04-12 00:57 the 'eco'-market 2012-04-12 00:57 sure, of course [eco] 2012-04-12 00:57 one sec, the prices don't surprise me at all 2012-04-12 00:57 opensource devices are the only real ecological things.. because you know what they contain (more than usual) and have a better repairability.. etc. 2012-04-12 00:57 an android wifi phone costs about 20-30 USD now 2012-04-12 00:58 and it will continue to go down 2012-04-12 00:58 that may help getting contrast to the cheap stuff in the droid area 2012-04-12 00:58 well 2012-04-12 00:58 the advancement is in the chips, the last 60 years, no? 2012-04-12 00:58 you can essentially think of every IC to be a 1 USD item 2012-04-12 00:58 wolfspraul: sure. but why for example do you have a new keyboard? 2012-04-12 00:59 (gracefully skipping over billions of investments) 2012-04-12 00:59 that's a big mechanical piece customized to fit my hands 2012-04-12 00:59 a ibm buckling spring from the 80s still would be 'recent developed' enough. nothing happened since then (besides usb, but there is adapters) 2012-04-12 00:59 the 'cheap materials' area is about to end. i know we will dig up garbage to mine for gold 2012-04-12 01:00 there are different price trajectories 2012-04-12 01:00 one ton of mobile-phones has more gold than the ore from a goldmine. 2012-04-12 01:00 GeorgeH has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 01:00 chips will continue to become more powerful while still costing "a dollar" in raw materials 2012-04-12 01:00 so lets make sure we know what we used, where and make modules where it makes sense (also to gain upgrade-pathes on hardware) 2012-04-12 01:00 I can see them getting a few thousand times more powerful still 2012-04-12 01:01 e.g. i could imagine a computer with a mm-like soc, consisting out of multiple chips on multiple boards plugged into one frame as case 2012-04-12 01:01 may be some need 3 or 4 fpga in the end, maybe some can use one or 2? 2012-04-12 01:01 the cost of raw materials will generally increase I agree, but not explosively I think 2012-04-12 01:01 just a few percent each year, inflation 2012-04-12 01:01 wolfspraul: more than explosivly... just see the prices of rare earth skyrocketing. 2012-04-12 01:02 nah, I think most of that is propaganda and lobbying 2012-04-12 01:02 wolfspraul: well.. china has export limits on that now (new) 2012-04-12 01:02 there are lots of discontinued mines all over the world, where people just got too lazy to compete with the chinese 2012-04-12 01:02 yeah finally 2012-04-12 01:03 the chinese are destroying their environment and poisoning people in nearby villages 2012-04-12 01:03 really 2012-04-12 01:03 and the government cannot keep the activities of greedy local miners under control 2012-04-12 01:03 and when the wto mumbled, the chinese argued with protection of the environment. 2012-04-12 01:03 if I would be in the chinese govt, we would cut down harder against this :-) 2012-04-12 01:03 some people who did the arguing there must been laughing a day long 2012-04-12 01:03 but there are plenty of mines in australia and many other places that could be reopened 2012-04-12 01:03 where workers would be paid australian rates, and australian environmental standards would apply 2012-04-12 01:04 which is a good thing! 2012-04-12 01:04 the chinese govt is right on this! 2012-04-12 01:04 maybe. still limited ressources. means in the end we need to stop using, and start making whole cycles out of it. 2012-04-12 01:04 china is a big big country, and there are very greedy local miners that don't care that the entire village nearby their mine is poisoned 2012-04-12 01:04 all kids loosing their teeth etc. 2012-04-12 01:04 while their own kids (of the factory owners) go to expensive private schools in shanghai 2012-04-12 01:05 wolfspraul: also china has extremely bad performance when it comes to economy of such things. 2012-04-12 01:05 and the australian mines could easily produce the rare earths as well, they just cannot compete with such gross violations of labor and environmental standards 2012-04-12 01:05 there are clean processes which do not dirty everything and get more ressources out in the end. 2012-04-12 01:05 someone has to stop this, and it's good that this (seems) to be happening now 2012-04-12 01:05 it's not "china", it's individual people that are responsible 2012-04-12 01:06 what I try to tell you is that the problem are greedy local miners, who put their own profits above everything else 2012-04-12 01:06 i know. actually i think the chinese planers are much more considerate about the future than our western economies 2012-04-12 01:07 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 01:07 but for electronics, the fact is that the amount of rare/expensive raw materials is very small 2012-04-12 01:08 what do all raw materials in the typical smartphone add up to? 2012-04-12 01:08 if you just look at weight and cost of raw materials per kg/ton ? 2012-04-12 01:08 must be a few USD at most 2012-04-12 01:08 even less than a dollar maybe :-) 2012-04-12 01:08 ok let's say 5 USD - MAX 2012-04-12 01:09 its availability, not only the per piece price which counts afaik 2012-04-12 01:09 compared to the service revenues being driven out of this device, it's negligible 2012-04-12 01:09 same as for weird chips. can kill your whole product if not avail in time 2012-04-12 01:09 there is no shortage in rare metals, just a totally lopsided mining environment 2012-04-12 01:09 the chinese got 9x% market share because they were willing to ignore labor and environmental standards 2012-04-12 01:10 'the chinese' being individual mine owners 2012-04-12 01:10 I hope this stops soon. I certainly don't want any such mine anywhere near where I live. 2012-04-12 01:10 orsonzhai has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 01:11 what were you thinking with 'take any case'? 2012-04-12 01:11 I agree conceptually, but when you start you run into major inconveniences that will still make you want to customize this or that aspect of the case. that's what I found. 2012-04-12 01:11 well.. depends on what the target usecase is. 2012-04-12 01:11 for the nanonote its hard 2012-04-12 01:11 so I think it's more like "make case v1 asap" with least cost and resources 2012-04-12 01:11 then use it, run into the major daily issues 2012-04-12 01:11 then proceed to case v2 2012-04-12 01:12 but what hinders us to use some readymade thing like the ben case? 2012-04-12 01:13 cases are nearly always designed with a specific production method in mind for every part 2012-04-12 01:13 yes 2012-04-12 01:13 and hopefully someone has the (daily) usage routine in mind as well 2012-04-12 01:13 so using one concept on low volume, and the switch is basically impossible 2012-04-12 01:14 one would rather learn from one case and the manufacturing method, and try others over time, depending on scale, needed detail, strength, volume and on how many 2012-04-12 01:14 yes 2012-04-12 01:14 that's what we do, no? 2012-04-12 01:15 i think the most realistic best mechanics for the buck we can get is what ben has 2012-04-12 01:15 anything we do would be more expensive and bulkier by far 2012-04-12 01:18 so maybe the nn isnt the best device to experiment with new case making stuff and learn? 2012-04-12 01:18 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 01:18 hmm, hard to say 2012-04-12 01:19 we learn, that's the good part 2012-04-12 01:19 can't really pin down how we remix what we learnt into something really good yet 2012-04-12 01:20 for sure the plastic injection path with expensive steel tools has lots of pros and cons, which we know now, so we can use that when needed... 2012-04-12 01:20 sure. but i have good experiences with only changing few things from revision to next, to make it work at all 2012-04-12 01:20 phew. back. 2012-04-12 01:20 so.. new soc AND new case.. may be too hard? 2012-04-12 01:20 it comes down to experience and picking the right tool for the job, and designing the case (and even use case) with those things in mind from day 1 2012-04-12 01:21 i think we have no chance even replicating what the nn has now in mechanical keyboard quality with a non-injection molding manuf. process 2012-04-12 01:21 (metric/one file) without switch, metric is better, because there's a clean conversion imperial -> metric but not metric -> imperial 2012-04-12 01:21 maybe we can, but not for sane money. 2012-04-12 01:22 (one file) probably doesn't matter much as far as pos2fab is concerned 2012-04-12 01:22 (atben/atusb) how about acid-free silicone ? 2012-04-12 01:29 (keyboard) do it the apple way. mill it keycaps from some fancy material, then sell it at a high price ;-) 2012-04-12 01:29 s/it k/the k 2012-04-12 01:29 wpwrak meant: "(keyboard) do it the apple way. mill the keycaps from some fancy material, then sell it at a high price ;-)" 2012-04-12 01:33 dvdk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 01:33 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 01:37 wpwrak: we can't compete in any sane way doing something like that 2012-04-12 01:38 I think more incremental 2012-04-12 01:38 nobody buys keyboards for >100 euros 2012-04-12 01:38 dvdk, thanks on mplayer. works just fine. :) I will release image today. test then release. 2012-04-12 01:38 yes agreed, those are products that are part of a huge marketing and design world and experience 2012-04-12 01:38 it's like saying the candy sold in disneyland has such huge profit margins 2012-04-12 01:38 sure it does 2012-04-12 01:39 but you try to go into disneyland with your own bag of candies and sell them there 2012-04-12 01:39 ha ha 2012-04-12 01:39 security people will be at your place within, what. 30 seconds? :-) 2012-04-12 01:39 roh: sure ? :) http://www.trustedreviews.com/Art-Lebedev-Optimus-Maximus_Peripheral_review 2012-04-12 01:39 I think our path is excellent in making incremental experiments and adding more tools, processes and materials to our arsenal 2012-04-12 01:40 it just has to be documented well, reproducible, so later we can build upon that, refine parts, next iteration 2012-04-12 01:41 roh: the one i'm typing on at the moment also cost something like USD 250. of course, it'll probably outlive me :) 2012-04-12 01:42 wolfspraul: yeah, we'll eventually have to crack the injection molding nut 2012-04-12 01:43 wolfspraul: for now, i'd be happy with STLs and functioning mechanical prototypes. then someone who knows the process details can re-capture the critter for the plastic fab. 2012-04-12 01:43 it's not a big black box 2012-04-12 01:43 and you could probably print STLs of you care to 2012-04-12 01:43 so that just won't happen 2012-04-12 01:43 s/of /if / 2012-04-12 01:43 wpwrak meant: "and you could probably print STLs if you care to" 2012-04-12 01:44 what won't happen ? 2012-04-12 01:44 but maybe someone starts experimenting with plastic and manual moulding 2012-04-12 01:44 if you really want to do plastics 2012-04-12 01:45 for manual molding, i see some potential in heating the whole system, with the mold. they probably don't do that in industry, because then they'd have to wait for it to cool. but if we don't care about time, we could test fairly accurate molds this way 2012-04-12 01:46 everything is heated afaik 2012-04-12 01:46 the 'industry' (which is also just individual companies and people) optimizes as to their own needs 2012-04-12 01:46 there is no big 'strategizing' going on, really 2012-04-12 01:46 you know the optimization potential right when you have it in front of you 2012-04-12 01:46 roh sits at his workbench, and spends hours and hours doing some step X 2012-04-12 01:47 (which is already profitable, assuming that he works for a paying customer) 2012-04-12 01:47 well, a similar set of goals and capabilities often leads to similar solutions 2012-04-12 01:47 while doing this manual repetitive thing, he calculates and says "if I invest 5 hours into making this tool, I can then make back those 5 hours and save another 3 hours on top compared to continuing with the current process" 2012-04-12 01:47 those 3 saved hours increase his hourly rate 2012-04-12 01:47 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 01:48 so he may take the risk (the tool making may still fail) 2012-04-12 01:48 there is a nearly infinite variety of optimizations in mechanical 2012-04-12 01:49 xiangfu: cool. 2012-04-12 01:49 I just want to learn more, and I think as I've said initially I want to try with some epoxies :-) 2012-04-12 01:49 dvdk: is the ssl problem gone now? (just double-checking) 2012-04-12 01:49 thanks a lot for the heads up! that deadline somehow bypassed my attention 2012-04-12 01:50 wolfspraul: seems to work here (sslpatrol tells me about new certificate, but no info, no warning nor error) 2012-04-12 01:51 roh: one detail. a while ago we talked about the heads of the screws on the m1 case 2012-04-12 01:51 and I kept saying I prefered phillips over the hex keys you seemed to like better 2012-04-12 01:52 well, after some time I have to say unless you changed again, I am now in the hex camp as well :-) 2012-04-12 01:52 I rather explain people that they have to get this relatively rare driver, because the phillips heads just wear out too fast 2012-04-12 01:52 wolfspraul: maybe you shouldn't use HTTPS based CSS references on the non-HTTPS entry page to the shop? This way it'd fail less fatally on the next cert timeout. 2012-04-12 01:52 nah, if anything I will move everything behind ssl 2012-04-12 01:52 on all sites 2012-04-12 01:53 makes the life of the various traffic shapers and deep packet inspectors and friends a bit harder 2012-04-12 01:53 wolfspraul: that's a great idea I think. With all the recent deep packet inspection, java-script injecting proxies etc. that can subtly break pages 2012-04-12 01:53 a new term I heard there was "revenue extractor" 2012-04-12 01:53 which are people that are inserting extra ads into html streams! :-) 2012-04-12 01:54 I know ssl is no ultimate solution, at all. but it ups the ante a bit. 2012-04-12 01:55 the "revenue extractor" is pretty evil. well, if it sounds like a pickpocket who went to school, what can you expect ? :) 2012-04-12 01:55 yeah, nice term, eh? 2012-04-12 01:55 but I can see how that sells 2012-04-12 01:55 "do you want to install our revenue extractor at your hotel/coffee shop/whatever?" 2012-04-12 01:56 who would say no??? :-) 2012-04-12 01:56 we have to be very clear that 99% or more people really have no understanding at all how this internet and protocol and computer stuff works, it just does work. so when someone comes with a message like that, it really *is* hard to say no. 2012-04-12 01:57 you don't want to be the last idiot refusing some good new thing... and you cannot tell whether there is any problem with this or not. 2012-04-12 01:57 that's why I rather see the responsibility on my side for example in moving everything behind ssl. 2012-04-12 01:57 and who would be able to tell it's the hotel's fault anyway 2012-04-12 01:58 I think the hotel staff (in this example) making the decision has no way to tell whether this is good or not. 2012-04-12 01:58 no chance, zero 2012-04-12 01:59 the salesmen could use something like "this is like twitter, it will take off. get on it early before everybody else does. don't be stupid" 2012-04-12 01:59 "the other hotels are all installing it now" 2012-04-12 01:59 anyway 2012-04-12 01:59 ssl :-) 2012-04-12 01:59 a small step 2012-04-12 02:06 well. let's hope the message makes the round 2012-04-12 02:25 wpwrak: so you think an acid-free silicone may be able to enclose atben/atusb without affecting rf performance? 2012-04-12 02:25 acid-free so that the board remains undamaged 2012-04-12 02:25 panda|x201 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 02:28 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 02:35 (acid-free) yes. seems that the regular silicone is a bit acidic. though they still don't mind recommending it for metals. but not for electronics. 2012-04-12 02:35 (rf performance) good question :-) 2012-04-12 02:36 it will almost certainly affect rf performance. but at least there's hope it won't be overly bad because it's thin. but then, i don't really know 2012-04-12 02:36 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 02:36 ok, got it 2012-04-12 02:37 more experiments 2012-04-12 02:37 pabs3 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 02:40 yeah. pretty heavy RF experimenting 2012-04-12 02:41 well, it could start easy as well, just by doing high-level performance tests and seeing whether something gets worse 2012-04-12 02:42 that doesn't tell us whether the lower layers are struggling with more noise though (for example), at least not precisely 2012-04-12 02:42 but have to start somewhere 2012-04-12 02:42 sure. if it's a total failure, that would be easy to detect 2012-04-12 02:43 you can actually measure the signal strength with atben/atusb alone 2012-04-12 02:44 see "Spectrum" under http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/test.html#procedure 2012-04-12 02:44 this does a frequency sweep and measures what arrives on the other side 2012-04-12 02:45 still extremely coarse. nothing like these http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/20110306/ 2012-04-12 02:47 you could also try acrylic paint. that should be thinner than silicone. drawback: not nice to remove 2012-04-12 02:50 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 02:56 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 03:01 [commit] Werner Almesberger: genex/: added support for multi-part components (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/0f0e732 2012-04-12 03:01 [commit] Werner Almesberger: genex/sym2xps: also translate and pass on text fields (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e52c3cf 2012-04-12 03:01 [commit] Werner Almesberger: genex/sym2xps: also check that the unit parameter is present (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/3bbd0e7 2012-04-12 03:01 [commit] Werner Almesberger: genex/sym2xps: use @ as regexp delimiter, to accommodate symbols names with / (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/dcee390 2012-04-12 03:15 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 03:36 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 03:58 dvdk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 04:04 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 04:05 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 04:05 wolfspraul: I see you already made sharism.cc https-only? 2012-04-12 04:06 wolfspraul: there are two side effects: the (totally outdated) blog is gone. BUT: the Developers link to qi-hw.com is also gone! 2012-04-12 04:06 forgot, when I work on a server I tend to move things behind ssl whenever I can 2012-04-12 04:06 I want to move the shop back to qi-hw anyway :-) 2012-04-12 04:06 btw today I am having terrible trouble with the gfw (great firewall of china), so I may drop out a lot 2012-04-12 04:07 something is acting up, they are probably testing more aggressive intrusion schemes 2012-04-12 04:07 I mean, people might not buy if they can't find a reference to firmware upgrades and manual? 2012-04-12 04:07 dns interception, attacks against all sorts of protocols, ssl, ssh, non-standard ports, artificial delays, you name it, they try it :-) 2012-04-12 04:08 dvdk: yes I agree this all needs to be united better 2012-04-12 04:08 btw, on the nanonote's shop page https://sharism.cc/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1 2012-04-12 04:09 if i click on "please visit this products webpage.", i get here: 2012-04-12 04:09 http://sharism.cc/specs/ 2012-04-12 04:09 he he. you are right! spring cleanup needed... :-) 2012-04-12 04:09 and suddenly SSL is gone but the Developer link is back. This link graph has too many (directed :) nodes 2012-04-12 04:10 looking forward to the shop being moved to the qi-hw wiki. so we can edit the price at will :) 2012-04-12 04:11 yep 2012-04-12 04:11 :-) 2012-04-12 04:12 (plus all the bots finally get a chance at increasing nanonote sales) 2012-04-12 04:19 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 04:20 dvdk: is the qi wiki down right now? 2012-04-12 04:21 nope 2012-04-12 04:42 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 04:44 wolfspraul: SSL is the way to go. On my sites I use HSTS, that is, require an user agent to always use SSL, even when the user has typed http:// 2012-04-12 05:24 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 05:31 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 05:31 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 05:32 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 05:34 [commit] Xiangfu: nanonote files: we still need this gforth workaround (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0b9b2b3 2012-04-12 05:35 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 05:42 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 06:03 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 06:51 i revisited linux usb gadget in RNDIS mode and Windows and it still doesn't work 2012-04-12 06:51 i was hoping it would work in 3.2 2012-04-12 06:52 i suspect it might be not a software issue 2012-04-12 06:52 DocScrutinizer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 06:52 is Ben's USB port is capable of RNDIS? i;m asking because not all usb gadgets work - for exmaple, mass storage doesn't work as well 2012-04-12 06:59 maybe it's still the software issue, but it must be fixed not in RNDIS driver (on Linux or Windows side), but in linux/drivers/usb/gadget/jz4740_udc.c ? 2012-04-12 07:05 from what i read, it seems that dingoo has no problems being a mass storage device in Windows 2012-04-12 07:06 i guess RNDIS would work as well 2012-04-12 07:08 Azbuka owners claim that their device also connects fine with Windows 2012-04-12 07:41 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 07:50 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 07:53 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 07:54 qwebirc1900 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 08:05 Hi 2012-04-12 08:13 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 08:19 kyak: xz0032 has been verified to work with rndis 2012-04-12 08:19 and it has the same 4740_udc gadget 2012-04-12 08:20 kyak: what's in dmesg (on the host) and lsusb -vv ? 2012-04-12 08:24 I'm trying to flash, but when on usbboot y try to run "nprog 2048 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-root.ubi 0 0 -n", it gives me an error 2012-04-12 08:26 which one? 2012-04-12 08:28 the nanonote 2012-04-12 08:29 with the latest image (2012-04-09) 2012-04-12 08:30 which error does it show? 2012-04-12 08:31 not enough argument 2012-04-12 08:32 hmm... 2012-04-12 08:32 I haven't release the 2012-04-09 yet. 2012-04-12 08:32 it will release today. sorry I am slow. I found a small bug. so it will release in next few hours. 2012-04-12 08:33 qwebirc1900, can you paste all output from usbboot? and the command you using. 2012-04-12 08:33 only the one from the error? 2012-04-12 08:33 usbboot :> nprog 2048 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-root.ubi 0 0 -n not enough argument. Usage: nprog (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (1) start page number (2) image file name (3) device index number (4) flash index number (5) image type must be: -n: no oob -o: with oob no ecc -e: with oob and ecc 2012-04-12 08:35 what is the usbboot version? 2012-04-12 08:37 201002-1 2012-04-12 08:37 qwebirc1900, ok. there is a bug on that one. 2012-04-12 08:37 I think it because there is space at the end of command. if I don't remember wrong. 2012-04-12 08:38 qwebirc1900, please update to recently xburst-tools.http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/downloads/77/ 2012-04-12 08:38 it have a new command "reset" for reboot nanonote from host. 2012-04-12 08:38 and a lot of bug fixed. 2012-04-12 08:38 the latest version is 201105 2012-04-12 08:38 ok, thanks 2012-04-12 08:41 orson_zhai has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 08:44 flashing now, thanks again. Is there a way of making a splash screen for gmenu2x? 2012-04-12 08:47 you mean the boot splash ? 2012-04-12 08:48 yes, but not the Qi Hardware Logo one, I mean another one, for example, made with python that requires to press Enter 2012-04-12 08:51 qwebirc1900, check the /usr/bin/gmen2x. 2012-04-12 08:51 ok, i'll give it a look 2012-04-12 08:52 it's a script wrap the real gmen2x. I think you can add some lines before "exec /usr/bin/gmenu2x.bin" 2012-04-12 08:55 whitequark: by "host" you mean Ben, of course? 2012-04-12 08:56 whitequark: hard to copy-paste something from Ben when i'm on Windows. Basically, im using linux.inf frmo kernel.org to install rndis driver. In windows xp, Ben says something "chosen config #2: RNDIS". After 2-5 seconds, Windows shows error code 10 "unable to start device" 2012-04-12 08:57 on Windows 7, Ben shows the same "chosen config #2: RNDIS", and after 2-5 seconds Windows also shows error code 10, but Ben also displays "config #0: unconfigured" 2012-04-12 08:58 WIndows 7 is kinda smarter than WIndows XP i guess and informs linux side that something went wrong 2012-04-12 08:59 the error code 10 with regards to rndis is mentioned here and there in Internet 2012-04-12 08:59 but no real solution 2012-04-12 09:00 and i also tried different cables/ports/and even laptops 2012-04-12 09:06 kyak, have you try this one : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_and_Windows#USB_Ethernet_emulation 2012-04-12 09:06 try some other Rndis.inf. 2012-04-12 09:06 not sure if this works fine with Ben Nanonote 3.2 kernel. 2012-04-12 09:08 orson_zhai has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-04-12 09:18 xiangfu: yes, i tried all possible linux.inf files i could find 2012-04-12 09:19 openmoko, dingoo, beagleboard, some pocket readers and whatever else 2012-04-12 09:19 they are mostly the same 2012-04-12 09:20 jivs_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 09:41 kyak: of course no 2012-04-12 09:41 I mean a linux host 2012-04-12 09:41 that is, a PC 2012-04-12 09:43 there is a rndis_host driver for that 2012-04-12 10:19 GNUtoo has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 10:26 whitequark: that's a good idea to try that. At least it will prove there is no hardware problems 2012-04-12 10:27 but even if it works Linux<->Linux, there is no point 2012-04-12 10:27 there is a CDC-ECM driver for Linux, i don't know who would use RNDIS 2012-04-12 10:27 it must work with Windows 2012-04-12 10:49 qwebirc31535 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 10:59 has the new software imagen for nanonote been published? 2012-04-12 11:32 qwebirc31863 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 11:44 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 11:48 cladamwa has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 11:48 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 11:58 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 12:07 kyak: well, there are at least three USB ethernet drivers 2012-04-12 12:07 CDC Ethernet, CDC-ECM and whatever RNDIS uses 2012-04-12 12:07 and AFAIK CDC-ECM won't work on NN due to endpoint count or something like that 2012-04-12 12:08 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 12:11 Hello everyone! 2012-04-12 12:13 JCGsp has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 12:13 hi everyone 2012-04-12 12:14 Hey JCGsp 2012-04-12 12:15 xiangfu, did you published new image for nanonote? 2012-04-12 12:15 JCGsp, downloading and test. I fix small bug today. 2012-04-12 12:15 JCGsp, please wait ~ 1 hour :-) 2012-04-12 12:16 Nice, where's the changelog xiangfu? 2012-04-12 12:16 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/OpenWrt_Software_Image#Image_2012-04-09 2012-04-12 12:16 fixed all 'FAILED PACKAGES' 2012-04-12 12:16 mplayer back. QT/GTK program back. etc. 2012-04-12 12:17 thats great. Sadly, there's no SD boot yet? 2012-04-12 12:33 whitequark: cdc-ecm does work on Ben 2012-04-12 12:37 in fact, it's the main and the only operating mode as of now 2012-04-12 12:38 since RNDIS was explicitely disabled to be able to use cdc driver on Windows (yes, there is such driver, but it's not free of charge and can only work 4 hours in trial mode before it disables) 2012-04-12 12:38 hm 2012-04-12 12:38 maybe that was CDC-Ethernet and not -ECM 2012-04-12 12:39 and frankly speaking it works just perfect.. too pity it's not free 2012-04-12 12:40 it's called Ethernet Gadget (with CDC Ethernet support) 2012-04-12 12:42 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 12:45 jow_laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 13:00 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 13:29 xwalk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 13:35 [commit] Xiangfu: reflash_ben.sh: remove useless -t option (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/891cce1 2012-04-12 14:08 JCGesp has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 14:09 Hi everyone again 2012-04-12 14:13 JCGesp, Hi 2012-04-12 14:14 JCGesp, I just finished the test and release the new image. 2012-04-12 14:14 JCGesp, changlog updated: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/OpenWrt_Software_Image#2012-04-09 2012-04-12 14:14 sorry. correct URL: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/OpenWrt_Software_Image#Image_2012-04-09 2012-04-12 14:38 JCGsp has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 14:39 xiang, http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/2012-04-09/ is where the image is? 2012-04-12 14:43 losinggeneration has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 14:55 whitequark: endpoint count might be a driver rather than a hardware issue 2012-04-12 14:55 is CDC-ECM supported by Windows out of the box? 2012-04-12 14:55 if it is, it would be worth investing some time in to get it running 2012-04-12 14:56 mth: from the times when I read jz4740-udc docs and sources, it's a driver issue 2012-04-12 14:59 me and a friend tried for several hours to get CDC Ethernet working with a netbook running Win7 and various .inf files, both against a kernel with and without RNDIS support in the CDC Ethernet driver 2012-04-12 14:59 and we didn't succeed in making it work 2012-04-12 15:00 while with Linux and OS X, it's a matter of plugging in and accepting an IP address via DHCP 2012-04-12 15:01 I think OS X only works when RNDIS support is disabled in the kernel though 2012-04-12 15:01 you didn't do a ritual sacrifice 2012-04-12 15:01 that's why 2012-04-12 15:01 I'm not a religious man, maybe that's why I don't get along with Windows 2012-04-12 15:05 infobot has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 15:05 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_and_Windows could one of these .inf work on windows? (maybe changing the IDs...) 2012-04-12 15:20 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 15:36 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 16:12 wpwrak: ping 2012-04-12 16:13 wpwrak: what's the recommended tool nowadays to relabel a vfat partition? 2012-04-12 16:16 wpwrak: please don't kill me answering "mtools", see `less /etc/mtools.conf' to stare in shock 2012-04-12 16:21 panda|x201 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 16:25 jow_laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 16:25 yeah, i was thinking of mlabel :) 2012-04-12 16:32 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Revert "MIPS: JZ4740: reset: Initialize hibernate wakeup counters." (jz-3.3) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b386be6 2012-04-12 16:32 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: MIPS: JZ4740: reset: Initialize hibernate wakeup counters. (jz-3.3) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/ba6ccf4 2012-04-12 16:32 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Revert "MIPS: Enable vmlinuz for JZ4740" (jz-3.3) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/d1c6dd7 2012-04-12 16:32 [commit] Llu 2012-04-12 16:32 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASoC: jz4740: A320: Add .owner to struct snd_soc_card (jz-3.3) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/032d0e3 2012-04-12 16:32 [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: MIPS: JZ4740: Use round robin DMA channel priority mode. (jz-3.3) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/4bbb1ee 2012-04-12 16:33 larsc: can you review the round robin DMA commit? 2012-04-12 16:38 does that fix the audio glitches? 2012-04-12 16:49 no, it doesn't seem to have any immediate effect 2012-04-12 16:50 but it is more useful this way than have more-or-less random DMA channel priorities 2012-04-12 17:09 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 17:11 The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120411-1055 2012-04-12 17:35 DocScrutinizer: hexdump and sed 2012-04-12 17:35 whitequark: LOL, exactly what I suggested ;-D 2012-04-12 17:36 dd perhaps ? :) 2012-04-12 17:39 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 18:10 kuribas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 18:21 jurting has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 19:14 GNUtoo has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 19:38 mth: looks good 2012-04-12 19:38 though i would have made prio an actual bool and called it low_prio or something like that 2012-04-12 19:39 but that's just a minor nitpick 2012-04-12 19:41 that was how I thought about it originally, but the PM mentions priority groups and then numbering them makes more sense 2012-04-12 19:41 i'd like to switch to dmaengine at somepoint, but the dmaengine framework isn't quite there yet 2012-04-12 19:42 a future SoC might have more than two priority groups 2012-04-12 19:42 ok, makes sense 2012-04-12 19:42 I'm assuming the groups have 3 channels each: the PM states 4 channels each but there are only 6 channels 2012-04-12 19:44 hmm, looking at the other priority schemes it could be 4-2 instead of 3-3 as well 2012-04-12 19:45 012345, 023145, 201345 have their permutations in the first 4 channels 2012-04-12 19:45 oops, I've got 2 as the value for round robin instead of 3 2012-04-12 19:46 which is strange, because I checked the reg contents and it was 0x300 2012-04-12 19:47 ...because I swapped mask and value 2012-04-12 19:48 I don't know if you're reading #dingoonity, but weird things happen if I set RDIL to a non-zero value 2012-04-12 19:48 even though in block mode RDIL should be ignored 2012-04-12 19:50 JCGsp has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 20:29 wpwrak: actually my suggestion was to use dd and/or sed 2012-04-12 20:30 a bit of tongue-in-cheek though 2012-04-12 21:03 jow_lapt1p has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 21:03 liuqi_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-12 21:06 DocScrutinizer: it's either that, mtools, or roll-your-own :) 2012-04-12 21:06 dosfslabel 2012-04-12 21:06 seems also buggy 2012-04-12 21:07 allegedly 2012-04-12 21:07 IroN900:~# dosfslabel --version 2012-04-12 21:07 dosfslabel 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN 2012-04-12 21:07 *cough* 2012-04-12 21:08 so we updated to version 3.sth, and then... 2012-04-12 21:09 [2012-04-12 20:01:01] FUUUK, seems this dosfslabel has bugs too 2012-04-12 21:09 [2012-04-12 20:01:23] it does not update root directory label, only bootsector :( 2012-04-12 21:19 you went to seek DOS and you found suffering. have your desired thus been fulfilled ? :) 2012-04-12 21:19 s/desired/desires 2012-04-12 21:19 wpwrak meant: "you went to seek DOS and you found suffering. have your desires thus been fulfilled ? :)" 2012-04-12 21:37 DocScrutinizer: I recall there was a tool which performed the inverse of what hd does 2012-04-12 21:38 hd? 2012-04-12 21:38