2012-04-09 00:21 <DocScrutinizer> roh: ping
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2012-04-09 01:15 <roh> pong
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2012-04-09 02:02 <roh> DocScrutinizer: pong
2012-04-09 02:02 <roh> *blink*
2012-04-09 02:05 <DocScrutinizer> roh: hi! :-)
2012-04-09 02:07 <DocScrutinizer> roh: any news or ETA guessing for the big move of doc.om.org et al? seems quite some people are missing svn and a few others
2012-04-09 02:07 <roh> nope... sean sadly doesnt react on mail so its delaying
2012-04-09 02:08 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
2012-04-09 02:08 <roh> but i think i will happen sometime soon
2012-04-09 02:08 <roh> propably while regular work-hours
2012-04-09 02:09 <DocScrutinizer> any chances you kick svn and doc vserver? until the move
2012-04-09 02:10 <roh> the vm is up, but its filtered on the outside
2012-04-09 02:10 <DocScrutinizer> o.O ??
2012-04-09 02:11 <roh> had some 'guest' using it as spam-relay quite a while ago
2012-04-09 02:11 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, munin seemed to suggest they are all running
2012-04-09 02:11 <roh> kicked him out, but the block needs (signed?) paperwork
2012-04-09 02:11 <DocScrutinizer> oh shit
2012-04-09 02:12 <roh> well.. it will be resolved with the move, afaik
2012-04-09 02:12 <DocScrutinizer> could somebody (me?) contact hetzner and ask what's the deal?
2012-04-09 02:12 <roh> nope.
2012-04-09 02:12 <DocScrutinizer> re block
2012-04-09 02:13 <roh> in the current legal think i think sean would need to sign, but since we change all that it will be much easier.
2012-04-09 02:13 <roh> legal thing of course
2012-04-09 02:13 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
2012-04-09 02:13 <roh> relay. is ostermontag. nothing will happen in germany anyhow.
2012-04-09 02:14 <roh> irgh. relax
2012-04-09 02:14 <DocScrutinizer> sure
2012-04-09 02:14 <DocScrutinizer> no hurry, no hassle. Just asking
2012-04-09 02:15 <DocScrutinizer> esp since admintrac is down
2012-04-09 02:15 <DocScrutinizer> and I published nagging me via IRC is the fallback method then
2012-04-09 02:16 <DocScrutinizer> s/down/blocked
2012-04-09 02:17 <roh> weird.
2012-04-09 02:17 <roh> hetzer said they replaced the hw..
2012-04-09 02:23 <roh> well.. it seems agni is completely down and i dont know why.
2012-04-09 02:23 <DocScrutinizer> duh, again?
2012-04-09 02:23 <DocScrutinizer> not since long
2012-04-09 02:23 <roh> i cant reach it.
2012-04-09 02:23 <roh> anyhow.. will drive to the lab now. and dont think much will happen soon
2012-04-09 02:24 <roh> bbl
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2012-04-09 05:13 <kyak> xiangfu: hi
2012-04-09 05:13 <kyak> xiangfu: a question: do we still need everything from nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60/files/etc/uci-defaults?
2012-04-09 05:14 <kyak> it's setting up some links which was a workaround in previous releases, but now it could be unnecessary/dangerous
2012-04-09 05:16 <kyak> xiangfu: another question: nananote-base-files only provides kernel-6x11-font. Maybe we should move it to script-files and get rid of base-files at all? It seems strange that we provide both scripts/data with script-files and kernel-6x11-font looks like forgotten in base-files :)
2012-04-09 05:17 <kyak> xiangfu: and the last question; is there a reason why you decided not to send all openwrt-xburst patches to openwrt upstream?
2012-04-09 05:20 <kyak> my understanding is that if we use these patches for release, they are all ready for openwrt upstream. I'm not saying they are ready for kernel upstream
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2012-04-09 05:49 <xiangfu> kyak, Hi.
2012-04-09 05:49 <xiangfu> just back from lunch. 
2012-04-09 05:54 <xiangfu> 1.(nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60/files/etc/uci-defaults)  I think we still need this one: 01-optimization-for-ben-nanonote. the other two can remove.
2012-04-09 05:55 <xiangfu> 2. (kernel-6x11-font) totally agree. 
2012-04-09 05:59 <xiangfu> the plan is 'scripts' for the files that nanonote needs and don't over-write any other openwrt base files.
2012-04-09 06:00 <xiangfu> and hte 'data/qi_lb60/files' is for the files that over-write the openwrt base files.
2012-04-09 06:00 <xiangfu> I needs clean up them.
2012-04-09 06:02 <xiangfu> I think the namd of 'script-files' is not fit for those files any more.
2012-04-09 06:02 <xiangfu> I will move all files to base-files. just like the openwrt names
2012-04-09 06:07 <kyak> this is a good idea
2012-04-09 06:08 <kyak> btw, do we need the posinstall section in nanonote-files Makefile?
2012-04-09 06:09 <kyak> i think the idea was to overwrite openwrt base-files, but this doesn't always work (depends on installation order).. since we set up a symlink like feeds/local_qipackages/nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60/files/ in openwrt-xburst, we coudl remove the postinstall 
2012-04-09 06:09 <xiangfu> I think we needs keep the nanonote-data-files/postinst. it should be works fine on overwrite
2012-04-09 06:10 <xiangfu> kyak, my plan is remove the 'CONFIG_PACKAGE_nanonote-base-files=y' in config.full_system.
2012-04-09 06:10 <xiangfu> but people can still opkg install this package.
2012-04-09 06:10 <kyak> ah
2012-04-09 06:10 <xiangfu> the opkg install should works fine with postinstall.
2012-04-09 06:10 <kyak> yeah, totally agree then
2012-04-09 06:11 <xiangfu> kyak, the build order. yes correct.
2012-04-09 06:12 <xiangfu> I think we needs move 'gmen2x' to base-files 
2012-04-09 06:14 <kyak> xiangfu: maybe we should do like that: put all gmenu2x icons in nanonote-gmenu2x-icons package, OR - just get rid of all nanonote-whatever-package and just keep everything (except for example files) in nanonote-base-files
2012-04-09 06:14 <kyak> to make things simple
2012-04-09 06:15 <xiangfu> (nanonote-gmenu2x-icons) great. 
2012-04-09 06:15 <kyak> xiangfu: btw, gmenu2x-settings, can't exit on "S" -\
2012-04-09 06:15 <kyak> have to kill gmenu2x :)
2012-04-09 06:17 <kyak> we kind of paid too small attention to gmenu2x, and it floated away in direction of dingoo.. too many regressions on Ben
2012-04-09 06:21 <xiangfu> let me commit first. I will split the gmenu2x-icons in next commit. 
2012-04-09 06:22 <kyak> it's great if we reorganize nanonote-files in a smart way. I'm starting to get lost in all those files :)
2012-04-09 06:22 <xiangfu> kyak,(gmenu2x) maybe we switch to David's 'alfilesel' someday :-)
2012-04-09 06:22 <kyak> yeah! it's simple and just works
2012-04-09 06:22 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: cgminer update to 2.3.2, update the BIT_ENDIAN patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/9d550b8
2012-04-09 06:22 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: nanonote-files: cleanup the file structure. update version to 201204 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/223a158
2012-04-09 06:23 <xiangfu> kyak, yes. gmen2x is big. complicate. 
2012-04-09 06:27 <kyak> xiangfu: so basically it's like that now: 1) nanonote-base-files is to keep all files (both scripts and data) except for gmenu2x icons and /etc. 2) Those files in /etc are provided by the "files" symlink or nanonote-data-files on "opkg install" 3) nanonote-gmenu2x-icons holds gmenu2x icons
2012-04-09 06:28 <xiangfu> kyak, yes.
2012-04-09 06:28 <kyak> 4) and there is nanonote-example-files holding music and whatever
2012-04-09 06:29 <xiangfu> yes. 
2012-04-09 06:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: naonote-files: split the gmenu2x icons to one package (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/65baf01
2012-04-09 06:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: nanonote-files: config.full_system include gmenu2x-icons (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/625f215
2012-04-09 06:30 <kyak> ok, this is great.. perhaps i would suggest one more change to make it more clear: move nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60/files to nanonote-files/files (so that other directories in nanonote-files/data/qi_lb60 don't confuse)
2012-04-09 06:31 <kyak> then by looking at root of nanonote-files/ we can't directly say which directory goes where
2012-04-09 06:32 <kyak> *we can
2012-04-09 06:33 <qi-bot> Jon Phillips: @christopheradam made a concise post about @qihardware and @milkymistvj + has a great new picture of the hardware: http://t.co/l7P8mabZ ( 189239979438907392@rejon - 1m ago via Ping.fm )
2012-04-09 06:34 <xiangfu> kyak, yes. 
2012-04-09 06:35 <kyak> i wonder if git will handle it when i pull all the changes :)
2012-04-09 06:36 <kyak> need to recreate the symlink in openwrt-xburst then
2012-04-09 06:38 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: nanonote-files: cleanup the file structure. move data/qi_lb60/files to package root (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f74c593
2012-04-09 06:38 <xiangfu> kyak, also needs update the buildhost compile script file.
2012-04-09 06:38 <xiangfu> more clear is better.
2012-04-09 06:40 <xiangfu> I will add a 'wpan-ipv4.ogg' for video sample 
2012-04-09 06:40 <kyak> i like David's sample video with bunny, not sure about the size though
2012-04-09 06:40 <xiangfu> 20MB
2012-04-09 06:41 <kyak> probably too much
2012-04-09 06:41 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu: nanonote-files: compile-openwrt-xburst.sh update the files symlink (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b2d577a
2012-04-09 06:43 <kyak> xiangfu: thanks a lot!
2012-04-09 06:44 <xiangfu> kyak, example video. 20MB should be ok. since people should install to /data/ 
2012-04-09 06:47 <kyak> xiangfu: that is, if /data is actually mounted :)
2012-04-09 06:48 <kyak> and probably opkg will fail downloading ipk that big anyway
2012-04-09 06:48 <kyak> due to RAM
2012-04-09 06:51 <xiangfu> ok. yes. correct. 
2012-04-09 06:51 <kyak> xiangfu: what about the openwrt upstream patches?
2012-04-09 06:52 <xiangfu> we are use /usr/share/opkg for download hte package. but same situation .
2012-04-09 06:53 <xiangfu> kyak, the patches I didn't send out are 3 parts 1. WPAN patches. 2. KS7010 patches. 3. the Nanonote patches (logo, keyboard)
2012-04-09 06:53 <kyak> i see! any good reason for that?
2012-04-09 06:54 <xiangfu> 1. (wpan) I needs split it to atUSB and atBen. for atUSB needs to send to target/linux/generic for all targets.
2012-04-09 06:54 <xiangfu> 2. not sure if we need that any more. keep in our repo first. 
2012-04-09 06:55 <xiangfu> 3. since those patches is for Ben Nanonote not fit for 'xburst' target. 
2012-04-09 06:56 <kyak> ah, ok; sure
2012-04-09 06:56 <xiangfu> it will influence  other xburst target. 
2012-04-09 06:56 <kyak> yeah, i understand now
2012-04-09 06:57 <xiangfu> next task split WPAN first. atUSB atBen.
2012-04-09 06:57 <xiangfu> if we have atUSB upstream that will be great. Ben Nanonote can connect to openwrt router(with usb host) 
2012-04-09 06:57 <kyak> yes, this would be great
2012-04-09 06:58 <kyak> i will go an upgrade my router to the one with usb host right away :)
2012-04-09 06:59 <kyak> xiangfu: do you know if atUSB is compilable is module?
2012-04-09 06:59 <kyak> i remember it could only be built monolitically
2012-04-09 07:01 <xiangfu> not sure that. 
2012-04-09 07:01 <xiangfu> I haven't try atUSB yet. :(
2012-04-09 07:01 <xiangfu> only tried 2 atBen talk to each other.
2012-04-09 07:04 <kyak> i did try atusb, and it is really disturbing that i had to compile it in
2012-04-09 07:35 <xiangfu> will pay attention on this built-in.
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2012-04-09 10:37 <xiangfu> this is cool: https://home.comcast.net/~sdwalker/uscan/index.html
2012-04-09 10:38 <xiangfu> I have asked sdwalker add openwrt-package 
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2012-04-09 14:42 <LunaVorax> Hello everyone!
2012-04-09 14:42 <wolfspraul> hi
2012-04-09 14:43 <Fallenou> hi
2012-04-09 14:43 <wolfspraul> Fallenou: hey, nice to see you in Qi Hardware too! ;-)
2012-04-09 14:44 <wolfspraul> I thought you were an exclusive milkymister
2012-04-09 14:44 <Fallenou> hehe I'm trying to be more social
2012-04-09 14:44 <Fallenou> I have just read your email
2012-04-09 14:44 <Fallenou> about Ya NanoNote being based on Milkymist SoC
2012-04-09 14:44 <Fallenou> what a crazy (and awesome) idea :)
2012-04-09 14:45 <wolfspraul> well, why do we work on an SoC if we then don't use it *everywhere*?
2012-04-09 14:46 <wolfspraul> it's like the Linux kernel, my friends for many years knew me as someone who would first install Linux on *every* computing device he got. OF COURSE!? huh?
2012-04-09 14:46 <wolfspraul> :-)
2012-04-09 14:46 <wolfspraul> so let's see. I am learning about IC design and SoC. total beginner.
2012-04-09 14:47 <wolfspraul> but I think we will use a free IC design as the central digital signalling hub for everything, sure. yes. what else? :-)
2012-04-09 14:47 <wolfspraul> is there any legacy stuff left out there?
2012-04-09 14:47 <Fallenou> that makes totally sense to me 
2012-04-09 14:48 <wolfspraul> see!?
2012-04-09 14:48 <wolfspraul> I knew it
2012-04-09 14:48 <wolfspraul> so then
2012-04-09 14:48 <Fallenou> why using some proprietary chip if there is a functional competitive alternative which is open source :)
2012-04-09 14:48 <wolfspraul> yes, a few pieces of legacy here and there, we clean them up, and then into the future
2012-04-09 14:48 <Fallenou> indeed it's work
2012-04-09 14:48 <Fallenou> but I think you don't fear working =)
2012-04-09 14:48 <wolfspraul> there's just enormous power available to us once we move beyond the x86/arm black box / iron curtain
2012-04-09 14:49 <wolfspraul> since I only do what I love, how could I fear anything?
2012-04-09 14:49 <wolfspraul> no, it feels right
2012-04-09 14:49 <wolfspraul> milkymist one today is still too basic, many things it could do don't work today
2012-04-09 14:49 <wolfspraul> so...
2012-04-09 14:50 <DocScrutinizer> moo
2012-04-09 14:50 <Fallenou> yes a lot of work to do
2012-04-09 14:50 <Fallenou> you would need a few dozen engineers 
2012-04-09 14:51 <Fallenou> every open source project does not have the Linux work force
2012-04-09 14:52 <wolfspraul> well I don't like to look at this just by how much one could work
2012-04-09 14:52 <wolfspraul> the reason there are many linux devs is because linux is valuable to many companies and lots of the devs make their living that way
2012-04-09 14:52 <wolfspraul> keep in mind that we made a usable and fun product around the milkymist soc today
2012-04-09 14:53 <wolfspraul> it's not like "we need another xyz"
2012-04-09 14:53 <wolfspraul> no we need nothing
2012-04-09 14:53 <wolfspraul> we just need m1 and some good music
2012-04-09 14:53 <wolfspraul> the rest is non-technical :-)
2012-04-09 14:54 <Fallenou> sure 
2012-04-09 14:54 <Fallenou> I was just thinking about work force because there is a road map and a lot to do (usb, mmu, linux etc)
2012-04-09 14:55 <wolfspraul> every creator is faced with shortage of resources
2012-04-09 14:56 <wolfspraul> from people with access to vast resources - how many create something lasting?
2012-04-09 14:56 <wolfspraul> so let's see. you have limited resources, and became passionate about the mmu, which a lot of people would love to have. is it enough to create something? we shall find out :-)
2012-04-09 14:57 <wolfspraul> but whatever the result is, it's worth trying and the most important is that you enjoy being on that path! irrespective of the result
2012-04-09 14:57 <wolfspraul> by the time we just buy what we need things are boring
2012-04-09 14:58 <wolfspraul> Fallenou: you mentioned some roadblocks recently? did sleeping over them help in any way?
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2012-04-09 14:59 <wolfspraul> writing this up could be helpful in itself, since there are a number of beginners/lurkers around
2012-04-09 14:59 <Fallenou> oh a sum up of the state of the mmu dev ?
2012-04-09 15:00 <Fallenou> I'm planning on sending a sum up email with a call for advices and ideas, not done yet, I tried a few more things yesterday
2012-04-09 15:00 <wolfspraul> you mentioned something you got stuck on
2012-04-09 15:00 <wolfspraul> ah ok
2012-04-09 15:00 <Fallenou> yes I'm still stuck :(
2012-04-09 15:00 <wolfspraul> I see
2012-04-09 15:01 <Fallenou> I asked a few fpga engineers , they didn't help much about my problem
2012-04-09 15:01 <Fallenou> but they did point a few things in Milkymist design
2012-04-09 15:01 <Fallenou> not sure if it's a real issue but I could talk to lekernel about it
2012-04-09 15:01 <Fallenou> about meta stability, asynchronous reset and DCM initialization
2012-04-09 15:02 <wolfspraul> trust yourself
2012-04-09 15:02 <Fallenou> I lost a few hours trying to get my hands on ModelSim , a verilog simulator
2012-04-09 15:02 <wolfspraul> the most those people can often help you with is to be angry at their uselessness and finally realize yourself what's going on :-)
2012-04-09 15:02 <Fallenou> right now I am doing simulations using ISim (ISE stuff)
2012-04-09 15:03 <Fallenou> I wanted to try something else, since ISim does not help much here
2012-04-09 15:03 <Fallenou> the MMU is working in ISim, so there must be something wrong with the simulation being too optimistic somewhere :)
2012-04-09 15:04 <Fallenou> 17:11 < wolfspraul> the most those people can often help you with is to be angry at their uselessness and finally realize yourself what's going on :-) < ahah yes, that's the good moments, when you eventually figure out what is going wrong and fix it yourself :)
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2012-04-09 16:55 <kyak> !seen dvdk
2012-04-09 16:55 <qi-bot> kyak, dvdk (~dvdkhlng@g225045026.adsl.alicedsl.de) was last seen quitting #milkymist 1 day 16 hours 52 minutes ago (08.04. 00:06) stating "Remote host closed the connection" after spending 3 hours 37 minutes there.
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2012-04-09 21:53 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120408-1732 
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