2012-04-03 00:02 [commit] David K 2012-04-03 00:52 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 01:52 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 04:02 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 04:46 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 05:11 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 05:22 viric: mhm, nice 2012-04-03 05:42 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 06:41 pabs3 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 07:13 pabs3 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 07:17 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 07:55 Martix has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 08:13 pabs3 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 08:22 Aylax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 08:25 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 08:41 pabs3 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 09:00 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 09:14 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 09:33 larsc: ping 2012-04-03 09:36 wolfspraul: reviewing patches now 2012-04-03 09:38 currently looking at http://pb.nanl.de/1061/34458611/ - this is mostly ben-specific kernel modules 2012-04-03 09:38 and they will only work when the xburst kernel patches are applied (implies the xburst target is selected) 2012-04-03 09:39 so it doesn't make sense to put them into package/kernel/modules/ but should go into own packages which depend on the xburst target 2012-04-03 09:53 mirko: that's the wpan stuff - ben specific? 2012-04-03 09:53 where do you want to have it in the tree? 2012-04-03 09:53 the 802.15.4 stuff is meant to go into kernel.org, not ben-specific I think 2012-04-03 09:54 you could plug an atusb into any router with usb... 2012-04-03 10:00 ok I think you want this as an individual package, same as the other apps 2012-04-03 10:01 can it still be compiled into the kernel statically then? as long as that's the case of course we can move it over to the qi packages 2012-04-03 10:02 so your choice: kernel module or qi package. I think kernel module makes more sense, especially given what the wpan project aims for and is working on. 2012-04-03 10:02 * lindi- maintains the qi package 2012-04-03 10:02 http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=qi 2012-04-03 10:03 Martix has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 10:07 the bootloader, wow 2012-04-03 10:08 lindi-: do you have a feeling/guess/knowledge who is using it? 2012-04-03 10:09 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 10:15 MabYwen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 10:15 MabYwen has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-04-03 10:15 wpwrak: I am :) 2012-04-03 10:30 wpwrak, i just manually fixed *.lib :-) 2012-04-03 10:31 wpwrak, it lost one line. :-) 2012-04-03 10:32 wolfspraul: I just got sick of having wiki.debian.org point people to random websites to download bootloader binaries 2012-04-03 10:33 sure, it's good 2012-04-03 10:34 wpwrak, I created two empty but only have rectangle multi-parts and then compared two multi-parts library http://dpaste.com/726195/ the line "S -1150 2700 1250 -2800 1 1 0 N" was lost. :-) 2012-04-03 10:34 I'm a little worn out with Debian packages, although I very much recognize the enormously important work happening there 2012-04-03 10:35 it took 1.5 years or so to get xburst-tools in, and I think it will be removed again due to cross-compilation issues 2012-04-03 10:35 :-) 2012-04-03 10:35 well then 2012-04-03 10:35 the one thing I looked for recently and could not find was a debian package for openscad 2012-04-03 10:51 wpwrak, it makes me remembered that deleted the rectangle block in FIRST sub-part. then eeschema confuses/or can't handle such deleted act in FIRST sub-part, then no matter whatever I tried to draw new rectangle in which sub-part will ALWAYS add into all else sub-part. It's a BUG in eechema. ;-) 2012-04-03 10:52 too early, but at least there is now a opencsg 2012-04-03 10:52 about openscad 2012-04-03 10:53 wolfspraul: well, the wpan-stuff depends on TARGET_xburst - at elast what xiangfu sent me 2012-04-03 10:54 spi_atben definitely is ben specific 2012-04-03 10:55 WHEN it is not xburst-specific, the kernel patches need to go into the 'generic patches' directory 2012-04-03 10:55 otherwise they only get applied, when the xburst target is selected 2012-04-03 10:55 this way they won't be available for other platforms than xburst 2012-04-03 10:59 so, either it's xburst-specific: patches need to be target-specific, packages should be usual packages (not package/kernel/modules) 2012-04-03 11:00 or the patches are generic (applied for all targets) and do not depend on a particular target/architecture, then they could go into package/kernel/modules 2012-04-03 11:00 right now - looking at the patch - it's mixed up 2012-04-03 11:02 i've no problem committing the wpan-stuff for all targets 2012-04-03 11:05 [commit] Adam Wang: 1. renamed wm9707scft.* to wolfson.* (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/ff07877 2012-04-03 11:06 which implies generic WPAN stuff needs to be extracted from the xburst-specific patches and converted into generic ones (referring to drivers/ieee802154/* in particular) 2012-04-03 11:22 DocScrutinizer2 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 11:44 mirko: pong 2012-04-03 12:02 mirko: perfect, I got it. so mostly you care that the builds and dependencies are consistent 2012-04-03 12:02 I will find out whether we see wpan more ben-specific or more kernel-generic, and then you should get an updated patchset tomorrow 2012-04-03 12:02 thanks for feedback! 2012-04-03 12:04 the atben drivers are definitely ben-specific. atusb and the rest of the stack (from linux-zigbee) aren't. 2012-04-03 12:06 well, driver(s). one variant replaced the other. 2012-04-03 12:08 Martix has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 12:18 pabs3 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 12:32 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 12:33 cladamw: (lines in the wrong part) are you sure the part/body switch was set correctly ? i think, when you restart the component editor, it'll reset 2012-04-03 12:34 cladamw: (wm9707scf rename) is that the only part wolfson produce ? :) 2012-04-03 12:36 wpwrak, yes, i was sure 'locked' switch was checked. ;-) 2012-04-03 12:36 wpwrak, once you deleted FIRST rectangle in first sub-part, you run into this problem. 2012-04-03 12:37 (locked) i mean "Edit pins per part" 2012-04-03 12:37 wpwrak, i'd prefer to use wolfson. ;-) 2012-04-03 12:37 yes, it's locked. 2012-04-03 12:38 you can use Editor to delete it first then try it. ;-) 2012-04-03 12:40 wpwrak, i can easily reproduce the bug now. ;-) 2012-04-03 12:40 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 12:41 (wolfson) what i mean is that things get messy if more wolfson chips get added since git can't track changes inside a .lib file. so all the changes to one part will appear to affect all the wolfson chips 2012-04-03 12:41 once you deleted rectangle in first sub-part. 2012-04-03 12:43 no, i noticed that git can track changed codes inside *.lib , are you sure ? 2012-04-03 12:43 (rectangle) seems that the flag doens't affect drawings 2012-04-03 12:43 wolfspraul: welcome :) 2012-04-03 12:44 (.lib) what i mean is that you can't search for changes of, say, only the wm9707scft in a .lib if there are other things in there 2012-04-03 12:44 yes, flag doesn't affect it. but if you switch to else sub-part, you can see your all changes go to else sub-part. :-) 2012-04-03 12:45 cladamw: if you keep one component per lib, then you can git log wm9707scft.lib and see the revision history of that part 2012-04-03 12:45 okay. have not used git log though. i try it. :) 2012-04-03 12:45 (git) similar with other commands 2012-04-03 12:47 (rectangle) if you double-click on it, you get a pop-up with a "Shared by all parts in component" checkbox. that one seems to do the trick. 2012-04-03 12:49 oah..yeah...that one i knew. :-) 2012-04-03 12:50 so this solves the problem ? or do deletes still affect other parts if you un-check "Shared ..." ? 2012-04-03 12:52 but i meant once you deleted rectangle in first sub-part, then draw a new rectangle still in first sub-part, then switch to else sub-part, you will see the new rectangle is all existed there, which is not the need we want. no matter what you checked "Edit pins per part" or not. :-) 2012-04-03 12:53 yes, i added one line after comparing those two empty *.lib, then try a while, now it's okay. 2012-04-03 12:53 inserted one line in lib. 2012-04-03 12:53 i'm confused :) 2012-04-03 12:54 does the "one line" refer to the rectangle problem ? or are you talking about something else ? 2012-04-03 12:54 let me git push the new spartan-6 then later you can follow my steps above, you will see. :-) 2012-04-03 12:56 [commit] Adam Wang: added Xilinx XC6SLX45-2FGG484C (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e2393f3 2012-04-03 13:00 you have "Shared by all parts in component" set 2012-04-03 13:00 wpwrak, 1 - make you that's checked 2 - delete rectagnle in part A 3 - re-draw a new rectangle 4 - switch to other part [B:F], see there's a new rectangle on there. It's wrong 5. added one line as i posted earlier then fixed. 2012-04-03 13:01 move the mouse over the edge of the rectangle, then press E 2012-04-03 13:01 then you'll get a dialog with a checkbox "Shared by all parts in component" 2012-04-03 13:02 if there's an [X], the rectangle will appear in all parts. if you click to change it to [ ], it won't be shared (as far as i can tell) 2012-04-03 13:03 you meant that "Apply changes to all parts in components" ? 2012-04-03 13:05 which verion of kicad are you using ? 2012-04-03 13:05 verSion 2012-04-03 13:05 arh ? your dialog msg isn't same as mine ? 2012-04-03 13:05 i don't know :) 2012-04-03 13:05 Build: (2010-08-11 BZR 2448)-unstable 2012-04-03 13:06 i have 2012-03-20 BZR 3482 2012-04-03 13:06 okay, so some things may be different 2012-04-03 13:06 oah...man! 2012-04-03 13:06 nice ! yours are super new though. :-) 2012-04-03 13:07 ah, ignore the date. that's just when i compiled it 2012-04-03 13:07 well...nevermind now on my problems. let's ignore it now. 2012-04-03 13:07 well....so how do i install yours ? 2012-04-03 13:07 or wait .. no, that's actually from then. hmm 2012-04-03 13:08 lemme clean up my stuff :) 2012-04-03 13:08 it should be BZR 3378. but that's still newer than what you have 2012-04-03 13:09 yeah...but it's safe on my site now. since I'll super carefully on editing multi-part. but no more such part needed to create now. haha... 2012-04-03 13:12 seem that kicad's build process uses the information from the latest commit not from the one checked out. 2012-04-03 13:13 (electrical type of pin properties) wpwrak btw, although I git pushed lib, but may few of those pins are not set well though. It's quite a lot of check works. I think in DRC stage I'll meet err then. :-) 2012-04-03 13:14 then I'll fix them somewhere. :-) 2012-04-03 13:15 soon you'll be able to use this tool: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/out.pdf 2012-04-03 13:16 make sit much easier to check the pin types 2012-04-03 13:17 wow~ nice 2012-04-03 13:17 "make sit" ? 2012-04-03 13:19 s/make sit/makes it 2012-04-03 13:19 wpwrak meant: "makes it much easier to check the pin types" 2012-04-03 13:19 race condition between my fingers :) 2012-04-03 13:19 ha :-) 2012-04-03 13:25 wpwrak, do you think that NC we should use "Unspecified" or "Not connected" ? 2012-04-03 13:26 from your out.pdf you used an "Unspecified". 2012-04-03 13:28 i think NC didn't exist when i did these 2012-04-03 13:28 lemme check how it works ... 2012-04-03 13:29 Unspecified for those that have no internal connection 2012-04-03 13:29 NC for those that are "do not connect" or those where we don't know if it's safe to connect something or not 2012-04-03 13:29 this is defined by yourself or KiCad ? 2012-04-03 13:30 this way, one can still use "NC" pins for routing 2012-04-03 13:30 this is what i suggest to use 2012-04-03 13:30 okay. 2012-04-03 13:41 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 13:50 The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120402-0952 2012-04-03 13:58 jivs_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 14:31 Aylax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 14:31 urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 14:39 Martix has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 14:54 Aylax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 15:02 Aylax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 15:05 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 15:05 Aylax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 15:06 capiscuas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 15:18 Aylax- has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 15:39 wolfspraul: hm, disassembled my microUSB-HDMI adapter 2012-04-03 15:39 it only uses four pins 2012-04-03 15:39 of which two are power 2012-04-03 15:39 and the two rest seem to be just like USB data lanes 2012-04-03 15:40 but 480 mbit/s isn't enough for uncompressed full-HD video afaik, so how does it work? 2012-04-03 15:47 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 16:17 It's enough for blu-ray 2012-04-03 16:41 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 16:52 emeb has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-04-03 16:55 GNUtoo has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 17:00 paroneayea has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 17:02 whitequark: 24bpp 1920*1080 at 60 Hz is almost 3 Gbit/s 2012-04-03 17:03 480 Mbit/s would be just enough for 640*480 2012-04-03 17:03 mth: exactly 2012-04-03 17:04 and I definitely remember a whole lot of problems with USB displays 2012-04-03 17:04 there's even a chip for that 2012-04-03 17:04 so it either supports lower resolution, lower bpp, lower frame rate or it does do compression 2012-04-03 17:04 DisplayLink or DisplayPort or whatever 2012-04-03 17:04 [commit] kyak: Revert "gmenu2x update to latest git commit date: 20120331" (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/cbd1c61 2012-04-03 17:04 Aylax-: blu-ray isn't uncompressed 2012-04-03 17:05 mth: the problem with compression is, you can't compress screen contents fast and efficiently 2012-04-03 17:05 you need a good hardware encoder, a good hardware decoder and it still will lag on some patterns 2012-04-03 17:06 if you don't care about efficiency too much, you can compress it quickly though 2012-04-03 17:06 but you need to fit hd to 480mbit 2012-04-03 17:06 through it probably does not do 60hz 2012-04-03 17:06 compress every frame as JPEG image? 2012-04-03 17:06 ffuuuu~~~ 2012-04-03 17:07 not to mention that jpeg is surprisingly costly for such a crappy algorithm 2012-04-03 17:08 and the hw I have definitely does not do jpeg 2012-04-03 17:08 nor it does any other kind of lossy compression 2012-04-03 17:08 since the PC side is USB, the compression has to be done by the driver, so it's likely not hardware accelerated, or at least not accelerated by this adapter (it could use the GPU) 2012-04-03 17:09 it's not PC 2012-04-03 17:09 it is a phone 2012-04-03 17:09 ah 2012-04-03 17:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-definition_Link with this 2012-04-03 17:09 looks like it just uses USB data lanes for some kind of LVDS 2012-04-03 17:09 I suppose you could fit 3gbit/s there if you try hard 2012-04-03 17:10 does it actually conform to the USB spec though? 2012-04-03 17:10 indeed 2012-04-03 17:10 maybe it cheats and uses the connector but not the protocol 2012-04-03 17:10 it has USB too 2012-04-03 17:10 OTG 2012-04-03 17:13 it says "5-pin interface", while USB is 4-pin 2012-04-03 17:21 mini/microUSB is 5-pin 2012-04-03 17:21 surprise! 2012-04-03 17:21 well, miniusb actually has a 4-pin variant, but no one ever uses it AFAIK 2012-04-03 17:22 not sure about microusb, but they probably ditched the 4-pin variant 2012-04-03 17:22 just look at the connector. 2012-04-03 17:23 indeed, my cable has 5 pins too 2012-04-03 17:24 the 5th pin is used to indicate which kind of device is on the other end 2012-04-03 17:32 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 17:33 yeah 2012-04-03 17:33 it's shorted to GND via a resistor 2012-04-03 17:34 or just shorted to GND or left opened 2012-04-03 17:34 one of the variants is for OTG and the other is for phone to detect a high-current charger 2012-04-03 17:35 there are also some resistor values used for uart-via-usb and audio-via-usb 2012-04-03 17:36 in which case they just use the usb data lanes 2012-04-03 17:40 see here for more: http://www.ulpi.org/ulpi_whitepaper_v2.pdf 2012-04-03 17:44 larsc, hi 2012-04-03 17:45 hi GNUtoo 2012-04-03 17:47 larsc, I sent a patch to linux-samsung from you about fixing boot of gta02, I got no responses, should I send to another list? the patch is linked from here: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.samsung-soc/10350 2012-04-03 17:47 larsc: huh, interesting, thanks for the link 2012-04-03 17:50 GNUtoo: try to ping the maintainer again 2012-04-03 17:50 patches sometimes get overlooked 2012-04-03 17:50 ok 2012-04-03 17:50 thanks 2012-04-03 17:55 DocScrutinizer2: (qualcomm-atheros) 2012-04-03 17:55 UPDATE: I have been contacted by Qualcomm PR regarding this expected presentation next week. The content of the Qualcomm Atheros developers was not approved by Qualcomm's legal department and the views to be expressed will be of their own personal beliefs. 2012-04-03 17:56 hmm? 2012-04-03 17:56 aah 2012-04-03 17:56 what presentation though? 2012-04-03 17:57 larsc: actually the 5th pin just indicates whether this is an A or a B plug 2012-04-03 17:58 which arguably implies some general indication what the other end of cable might look like, and this which remote device 2012-04-03 18:00 short to GND = A, open = B, some resistor indicates fastcharger, or charging Y-cable setup for charging A-OTG host 2012-04-03 18:01 some ultraweird "standard" is using ID pin as *output* to control chargers 2012-04-03 18:01 or somesuch 2012-04-03 18:03 DocScrutinizer: they [Atheros guys] presented their thoughts in a form of a presentation 2012-04-03 18:03 maybe want to speak at some conf 2012-04-03 18:03 and some very tricky battery dongles seem to use ID pin as anohter power-in or -out 2012-04-03 18:05 ooh, those "nuke all proprietary drivers zealots?" 2012-04-03 18:05 yeah 2012-04-03 18:05 hahaha 2012-04-03 18:06 but maybe it's the same as some Samsung employees giving away a lot of internal docs without any NDAs or similar shit 2012-04-03 18:06 now either they get twice the wages, or they are already fired 2012-04-03 18:06 just because they couldn't do it officially 2012-04-03 18:06 hehe 2012-04-03 18:07 whitequark: are those dudes relatives of me? ;-D 2012-04-03 18:07 DocScrutinizer: no idea, I didn't talk to them, just heard on #replicant 2012-04-03 18:07 Ingenic folks tend to do the same 2012-04-03 18:08 e.g. they sent us a full minios source tree 2012-04-03 18:08 OM folks too ;-) 2012-04-03 18:08 well 2012-04-03 18:08 are they supposed to be proprietary?.. 2012-04-03 18:08 hough there's not much closed stuff inside OM 2012-04-03 18:09 some crappy calypso GSM stack, 90% binary libs, already 'leaked' by somebody else 2012-04-03 18:09 some glamo docs that meanswhile are semi-public 2012-04-03 18:10 dunno shit about atheros wl6001 or whatever WLAN firmware 2012-04-03 18:11 but that's no APE land blob anyway (neither is modem) 2012-04-03 18:11 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 18:12 well, given that some pre-android motorola actually had a probe in the wlan firmware... 2012-04-03 18:12 I would care about this stuff 2012-04-03 18:12 and I think there actually were some accidentally publicly accessable schematics where the calypso modem pages didn't lack 2012-04-03 18:13 probe? 2012-04-03 18:13 like you cannot sandpaper the board and reverse-engineer that layout anyway 2012-04-03 18:13 hm 2012-04-03 18:13 you could ICMP it 2012-04-03 18:13 and it would happily relay all traffic to whoever had sent the secret ICMP 2012-04-03 18:14 ooh 2012-04-03 18:14 nice 2012-04-03 18:14 no "verifiable" (in terms of wikipedia) source, but I pretty much sure that there was 2012-04-03 18:14 Somebody highlighted me here? 2012-04-03 18:14 would show immediately on my monitored and logged WLAN AP 2012-04-03 18:14 DocScrutinizer: and now you're saying you are not paranoid ;) 2012-04-03 18:15 I am just laughing at paranoids, they always are so helpless 2012-04-03 18:15 maybe paranoidness should be measured on a logarithmic scale 2012-04-03 18:15 most people are at -1 2012-04-03 18:15 I'm, dunno, maybe at 3 2012-04-03 18:15 then you are at 8. 2012-04-03 18:16 or measure it in decibels 2012-04-03 18:16 80 dBp! 2012-04-03 18:17 look, the diff between me and a paranoid is: I'm enjoying it 2012-04-03 18:17 I'm eager to see some attack 2012-04-03 18:17 so I got something to laugh and to fight and to investigate 2012-04-03 18:18 oh, I understand it 2012-04-03 18:18 but all this should eat a lot of time, no? 2012-04-03 18:18 and damn, if the dude is really really *really* good, he might take my browser history and I'm not scared at all, just respectful for a really great hacker 2012-04-03 18:19 and all that takes just as much time as I can spend on it 2012-04-03 18:19 often less 2012-04-03 18:20 that's sole reason I'm not doing similar things. I do things which don't require constant attention from you, or require you to understand loads of bullshit you'll forget anyway and then screw up something important 2012-04-03 18:20 hehe 2012-04-03 18:20 well, probably you got a life 2012-04-03 18:21 i'm not that sure about me in that regard 2012-04-03 18:21 so I have SSH and passphrases on _really_ important things (other ones just go in KeePassX), and even an encrypted VM for _really really_ important things 2012-04-03 18:21 but heck, to monitor AP logs?! no no no 2012-04-03 18:21 daily logwatch from 2+ servers is more than enough 2012-04-03 18:22 apropos, have to check my own box' munin 2012-04-03 18:22 (got a life) probably not. as I recently understood, I wake up, stare at the screen, go to screen. 2012-04-03 18:22 sometimes even eat. 2012-04-03 18:22 *go to sleep. 2012-04-03 18:23 go to work, return to screen, switch screen, go to sleep 2012-04-03 18:23 not that "work" means anything but "stare atyet another screen" 2012-04-03 18:24 WITH WIN-XP!!!!!! 2012-04-03 18:24 nah, I can work at home 2012-04-03 18:24 *BLAERGH!!* 2012-04-03 18:24 (winxp) interestingly, I'm way more irritated by win7 or gnome3 or osx than winxp 2012-04-03 18:24 VISTA 2012-04-03 18:25 and now that new shit 2012-04-03 18:25 coming up 2012-04-03 18:25 win8, yes 2012-04-03 18:25 the embedded desktop for desktops 2012-04-03 18:25 far worse than anything which happened before 2012-04-03 18:25 I tried beta 2012-04-03 18:25 indeed 2012-04-03 18:25 hope it will kill them 2012-04-03 18:25 apart from the fact that it BSODs endlessly in VMs 2012-04-03 18:25 it has a REALLY SHITTY interface 2012-04-03 18:25 definitely 2012-04-03 18:25 orders of magnitude more shitty than vista 2012-04-03 18:26 magnitudes shittier than even wind2.0 2012-04-03 18:26 -d 2012-04-03 18:26 like if someone at MS thought "tablets are cool, let's pretend desktops are tablets" 2012-04-03 18:26 exactly 2012-04-03 18:26 and put all those GIANT BUTTONS 2012-04-03 18:26 and removed all the compat 2012-04-03 18:26 fuck him 2012-04-03 18:27 monster idiots 2012-04-03 18:27 and fuck tablets. there's no device humanity created that is less useful than a tablet 2012-04-03 18:27 well, a good reason to refuse ever again touching that stuff, even for earning a living 2012-04-03 18:27 (touching) you have to touch it to toss it to garbage 2012-04-03 18:27 kilae_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 18:28 or maybe you could use a hazmat suit 2012-04-03 18:28 figure a tablet on desk of boss' secretary ;-P 2012-04-03 18:28 you need: 1 (one) hammer, 1 (one) nail (optional) 2012-04-03 18:28 "Ms Jones, could you please write that letter til 2'o?" 2012-04-03 18:28 BWAHAHA 2012-04-03 18:28 lol 2012-04-03 18:28 how much hours did it take? 2012-04-03 18:28 is she done yet? 2012-04-03 18:29 with win8 M$ abandoned office usecase 2012-04-03 18:30 well I don't really understand 2012-04-03 18:30 shevek has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 18:30 is win8 "the next windows"? 2012-04-03 18:30 the ONLY market niche they were relevant in 2012-04-03 18:30 are they pretending that everyone should now use that? no, seriously? 2012-04-03 18:30 well, it's their next windows 2012-04-03 18:31 is it even compatible with old apps at all? 2012-04-03 18:31 there's no other next M$-OS 2012-04-03 18:31 dunno 2012-04-03 18:31 are ribbons in M$-office any compatible to anybody used to menus? 2012-04-03 18:31 oh 2012-04-03 18:31 I curse it every single day, at work 2012-04-03 18:31 they put MORE RIBBONS to it 2012-04-03 18:31 to Explorer 2012-04-03 18:32 did they accidentally hire someone to destroy them from inside?.. 2012-04-03 18:32 honestly since ribbons even excel shit takes 5 min for the real work, plus 2h for searching how to do that work 2012-04-03 18:33 maybe Nokia's secret revenge 2012-04-03 18:33 http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/8-Reasons-Windows-8-Explorer-Ribbon-UI-Is-Better-than-Its-Predecessors-2.png/ 2012-04-03 18:34 the funniest thing is, ribbon is absolutely unusable on tablets 2012-04-03 18:34 because of small buttons 2012-04-03 18:34 and other screwups 2012-04-03 18:35 LOL 2012-04-03 18:35 http://news.softpedia.com/news/8-Reasons-Windows-8-Explorer-Ribbon-UI-Is-Better-than-Its-Predecessors-219422.shtml 2012-04-03 18:35 right 2012-04-03 18:35 just read the points 2012-04-03 18:35 they're incredibly hilarious 2012-04-03 18:35 2. No more digging around for options through menus and submenus – There are approximately 200 commands on the new Windows 8 Explorer UI, even hidden features that would otherwise sit unused. 2012-04-03 18:36 does he understand what he says _at all_? 2012-04-03 18:36 nah, the first picture already made my eyes bleed 2012-04-03 18:36 I should have pixelized it 2012-04-03 18:36 you know, like in porn 2012-04-03 18:37 or maybe the other way around. anyway, you got the idea 2012-04-03 18:37 sure 2012-04-03 18:38 a few days ago I wondered how T major F you do conditional formatting in excel2007. Found out there's a way to add a "menu" to window bar, via "system"-"preferences" 2012-04-03 18:39 DIE!!! M$ DIE!!! 2012-04-03 18:43 we should get you a bill gates voodoo doll ;) 2012-04-03 18:43 so much hate :D 2012-04-03 18:46 GNUtoo: btw. you should send the patch to the maintainer with the list in cc 2012-04-03 18:47 that's what I did 2012-04-03 18:47 I guess it just doesn't show up in the list 2012-04-03 18:47 *gmane 2012-04-03 18:48 I sent TO Ben Dooks 2012-04-03 18:48 ok. i only had one mail from you in my inbox which only had the mailinglist not the maintainer 2012-04-03 18:48 and CC the list 2012-04-03 18:48 + other people 2012-04-03 18:48 yes that's why I [RESENT] it 2012-04-03 18:48 It was early the morning 2012-04-03 18:48 and I wasn't awake 2012-04-03 18:48 ben dooks has been quite quiet over the last few weeks 2012-04-03 18:49 and I forgott to do ./script/get-maintainer.pl 2012-04-03 18:49 s/weeks/years/ 2012-04-03 18:49 larsc meant: "ben dooks has been quite quiet over the last few years" 2012-04-03 18:49 so I resent 2012-04-03 18:49 ouch 2012-04-03 18:49 so who should I send to? 2012-04-03 18:49 try to ping Kukjin Kim 2012-04-03 18:49 he is usually responsive 2012-04-03 18:50 ok thanks a lot!!!! 2012-04-03 18:50 altough there is a problem in get-maintainer.pl or MAINTAINERS...since it always give me ben dooks 2012-04-03 18:52 DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.freebsd.org/AdrianChadd/AtherosTxAgg 2012-04-03 18:53 >Qualcomm Atheros, Inc. have also provided source code and documentation under an NDA which allows for contribution back to an open source project. 2012-04-03 18:53 interesting 2012-04-03 18:53 GNUtoo: scripts/get_maintainer.pl -f arch/arm/mach-s3c2440 2012-04-03 18:53 Ben Dooks (maintainer:ARM/SAMSUNG ARM A...) 2012-04-03 18:53 Kukjin Kim (maintainer:ARM/SAMSUNG ARM A...) 2012-04-03 18:54 ok 2012-04-03 19:00 whitequark: which presentation are you guys talking about? 2012-04-03 19:01 larsc: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=qualcomm_kill_blobs 2012-04-03 19:08 sounds nice 2012-04-03 19:08 it's always good when development overrules PR ;) 2012-04-03 19:45 whitequark, what about the firmwares (ath9k_htc) 2012-04-03 20:15 paroneayea has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 20:21 Aylax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 20:42 capiscuas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 20:55 capiscuas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 21:01 capiscuas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 21:01 GNUtoo: no idea 2012-04-03 21:04 ok 2012-04-03 21:05 because the status of free firmwares is even worse than the free drivers 2012-04-03 21:05 for wifi we have openfwwf for old b43 cards and carl something for an atheros card 2012-04-03 21:05 and I think that's all 2012-04-03 21:06 so no free firmwares for embedded devices 2012-04-03 21:06 (and for graphic card I think nouveau also does the firmwares so it's free for nouveau if I remember well) 2012-04-03 21:07 I hope lima comes up with something 2012-04-03 21:07 for embedded devices 2012-04-03 21:14 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 21:21 sigh 2012-04-03 21:21 alsa..... 2012-04-03 21:24 hmm, we really ought to have some pre-built toolchains for the ben. the setup process is rather nightmareish. and jlime only has an i386 version which doesn't work on ubuntu onerous 2012-04-03 21:24 Doesn't the one from emdebian work? 2012-04-03 21:25 oops wrong channel about alsa 2012-04-03 21:26 shevek: with the target system running openwrt or jlime ? 2012-04-03 21:26 wpwrak: crosstool-ng sets up some pretty statically built toolchains 2012-04-03 21:26 they're filesystem relocatable 2012-04-03 21:26 that is, do not depend on LD_LIBRARY_PATH being set correctly or other shit 2012-04-03 21:26 but they still need to match the target system's libc 2012-04-03 21:26 nixpkgs toolchains... nanonixos... 2012-04-03 21:27 i knew you'd say that ;-) 2012-04-03 21:27 * kristianpaul going to Ecuador to give talk about Copyleft Hardware 2012-04-03 21:28 salute Correa :) 2012-04-03 21:29 wpwrak: bwahahaha ;) 2012-04-03 21:29 wpwrak: I bet I could crossbuilt for the ben in a mips. 2012-04-03 21:29 i insisted for workshop... but they said no? 2012-04-03 21:30 i'll confirm again 2012-04-03 21:30 wpwrak: how often do you change libcs? 2012-04-03 21:31 how often change libc? 2012-04-03 21:31 there is one new every half a year 2012-04-03 21:31 (for glibc) 2012-04-03 21:33 I use to change once a year 2012-04-03 21:34 well, by change, I mean *start using the newer*. I still use some old glibc for programs I have not updated 2012-04-03 21:34 whitequark: on the ben ? almost never. on the desktop, it depends on what ubuntu does. 2012-04-03 21:35 wpwrak: what one you use now? 2012-04-03 21:35 did ubuntu start using 2.14? 2012-04-03 21:36 they made that mess about RPC... 2012-04-03 21:39 GNU C Library (Ubuntu EGLIBC 2.13-20ubuntu5.1) stable release version 2.13 2012-04-03 21:41 ah even eglibc. ok 2012-04-03 21:50 hmm, ftp://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gcc/gcc-4.6-linaro/ (et al.) no longer exists 2012-04-03 21:51 this breaks owrt toolchain compilation 2012-04-03 21:56 phew. found an old owrt toolchain in my backups. and it doesn't even mind the new ubuntu :) 2012-04-03 22:04 dvdk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 22:09 wpwrak: ah, the host libc 2012-04-03 22:09 well, it theoretically requires the same libc 2012-04-03 22:09 practically you can build it once on debian stable and forget about it for ~3 yrs 2012-04-03 22:12 yeah, host libc usually isn't a big issue. luckily :) 2012-04-03 22:14 shevek has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-04-03 22:38 we're distributing the OpenDingux toolchain as i386 binary and I haven't heard of any problems running it 2012-04-03 22:38 it is not relocatable though 2012-04-03 22:39 and if you enable LTO on GCC 4.5, you get a dependency on libelf, which is not installed everywhere 2012-04-03 22:39 and is hard or impossible to install on 64-bit Debian 2012-04-03 22:39 but with 4.6 and 4.7 that dependency is gone 2012-04-03 22:39 it is also gone if you don't enable LTO 2012-04-03 22:40 we haven't had much success with LTO anyway, so that's not a big sacrifice 2012-04-03 23:02 mth: ubuntu onerous doesn't install i386 support on amd64 by default. ia32-libs and ia32-libs-multiarch both have unresolved dependencies. aptitude flat out refuses to install them. apt-get valiantly tries but hits a problem later on. 2012-04-03 23:03 on any case, the gcc support libs (libmfpr or whatever it's called) don't seem to get included 2012-04-03 23:04 trying to install the i386 version manually results in apt-get and aptitude happily announcing that they going to uninstall pretty much all of the rest of the system. i was too chicken to try and see what would actually happen if i let it. 2012-04-03 23:33 Jay7x has joined #qi-hardware 2012-04-03 23:41 latest mplayer in openwrt-packages is broken!? 2012-04-03 23:45 [commit] David K 2012-04-03 23:47 [commit] David K 2012-04-03 23:47 [commit] David K 2012-04-03 23:53 dvdk: really? haven't tried yet but will notice right when I upgrade 2012-04-03 23:55 wolfspraul: didn't work due to some library depenency problem (libfaad.so not present), but if i recompile myself, i only get a black picture, not even sound. maybe the video driver deadlocks 2012-04-03 23:57 ouch, got it 2012-04-03 23:58 so, just nobody realized till now, as masked by the dependency problem. 2012-04-03 23:58 or maybe my local compilation just has problems, who knows.