2012-03-02 00:48 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 01:10 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 01:14 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 01:26 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 01:42 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 01:50 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 01:55 Artyom (in absence) thanks a lot for detailing all your thoughts and decision making process! 2012-03-02 01:55 that's very helpful to understand... 2012-03-02 01:56 I didn't understand what judgment of mine you referred to though - did I say anything? 2012-03-02 01:56 I planned to email the Qi list pointing to your great blog post, but haven't done that yet... 2012-03-02 01:56 anyway, all good. thanks for the background info! 2012-03-02 02:02 whitequark: no idea. try and find out ;-) i wouldn't expect very visible damage. and it may be at a hidden layer. but you never know ... 2012-03-02 03:13 !stats 2012-03-02 03:13 kristianpaul: 80923 words, 444998 letters, 10805 lines, 7.49 words/line, 251 actions, 2680 smilies, 1686 questions, 207 joins, 0 kicks, 0 modes, 0 nicks, 0 topics, time wasted: 1 year 2 weeks 3 hours 20 minutes , 50.53 idle-factor. 2012-03-02 03:15 indeed, Reliaility ! 2012-03-02 03:49 Artyom has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 03:58 wolfsraul: I meant this statement: "wolfspraul dismissing arm is not smart and good imho". May be I just didn't understand the meaning correctly. But anyway I decided to explain why I had switched to MM SoC and put ARM away for some time. 2012-03-02 04:08 ah 2012-03-02 04:08 :-) 2012-03-02 04:08 that was in NO WAY at all a reference to you 2012-03-02 04:09 in fact you are very balanced and objective in comparing all this, which helps me (and others I think) 2012-03-02 04:11 it's more a reminder to self to appreciate what ARM has done (and keeps doing), and take Milkymist to the next level, instead of trying to catch up 2012-03-02 04:11 and of course, your findings may take you back to ARM, and why not? 2012-03-02 04:11 we are passionate about making things work, I think 2012-03-02 04:11 I would do that too, I want to get stuff to work... 2012-03-02 04:12 meanwhile we improve Milkymist SoC, which will eventually be chosen because IT IS the best, not because it's a dogmatic choice 2012-03-02 04:20 wolfspraul: I think we undertand each other fine now :) As I said I could misunderstand the true meaning of your statement ;) 2012-03-02 05:03 Artyom has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 05:31 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 05:42 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 05:55 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 06:04 orson_zhai has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 06:48 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 07:10 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 07:15 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 07:35 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 08:42 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 09:01 mstevens_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 09:46 jivs_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 09:53 DocScrutinizer has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 10:15 can anyone answer a relatively simple question? 2012-03-02 10:15 http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/27452/coupling-electret-microphone-input-to-linear-audio-output 2012-03-02 10:15 DocScrutinizer: maybe you know? 2012-03-02 10:23 Artyom has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 10:34 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 10:52 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 10:58 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 11:16 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 11:30 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 11:41 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 11:57 cladamw has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 12:54 woakas has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 13:34 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 13:35 x201 has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 13:45 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 14:57 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 14:59 whitequark: maybe I can answer, but only qhwn you pose the question here 2012-03-02 14:59 when* 2012-03-02 15:00 no way I'll open a webpage to rea it now, on mobile 2012-03-02 15:01 anyway the URL suggests you want to plug mic-in to errr line-out? 2012-03-02 15:07 paroneayea has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 15:57 emeb has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 16:10 PLRASE KILL E!! 2012-03-02 16:11 ME 2012-03-02 16:11 or rather, kill billyboy gates 2012-03-02 16:12 * DocScrutinizer51 can't stop headdesking 2012-03-02 16:14 c:\foo\bar\boo\CPU-A\conf\brd.cfg gets displayed in sourceinsight as brd.cfg[c:\foo\bar\...\conf\] 2012-03-02 16:15 BUT THERE'S ALSO CPU-B!!! 2012-03-02 16:16 guess what's display for cpu-b brs.cfg file in source-inight 2012-03-02 16:17 * DocScrutinizer51 continues headdesking, while pondering suicide or 500kg TNT 2012-03-02 16:23 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 16:35 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 16:45 dvdk has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 16:48 zear_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 17:04 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 17:19 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 18:23 mstevens has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 18:32 GNUtoo has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 18:51 Ayla has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 19:19 in explorer you got a decent full pathname in top addr textbox. Not so in "Open" and "Save as" dialogs :-((( 2012-03-02 19:19 FSK wincrap! 2012-03-02 19:20 +C 2012-03-02 19:21 is there any tool to resize non-resizable dialogs, on windoze? 2012-03-02 19:24 prolly not, and even if you could resize the "window" of that dialog, I'd bet the widgets inside won't resize accordingly - unless the unlikely luccky case the requester is coded in Qt 2012-03-02 19:25 oh, was afk 2012-03-02 19:25 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I have a GSM module with line-out and mic-in (electret) 2012-03-02 19:25 actually, two modules 2012-03-02 19:25 :nod: 2012-03-02 19:26 and I want to plug the line-out of one to mic-in of another 2012-03-02 19:26 should be pretty trivial, but I was unable to google it 2012-03-02 19:26 bonus points for not letting TDMA noise to the line 2012-03-02 19:27 both the line-out and mic-in are differential 2012-03-02 19:27 use a R-divider to attenuate, with a 2kR across the mic lines and a 50..1000kR series to line, in series with a 100nF decoupling C 2012-03-02 19:28 use a 1k load R across line-out 2012-03-02 19:31 for the TDMA noise, you might or might not run into problems. Worst case you need a NF-transformer 2012-03-02 19:32 but then, you as well can use some active circuitry, like e.g an optocoupler 2012-03-02 19:34 ah. I thought that I could just use coaxial cables (I have a lot of these) for connecting the audio i/o to a shielded board 2012-03-02 19:34 depending on particular line-out differential design, you might already have sufficient bias on one of the lines to GND, to drive the opto's LED with just a series R as external components 2012-03-02 19:35 not sure if that would help actually 2012-03-02 19:35 whitequark: regarding TDMA noise your main problem is common GND of both modules 2012-03-02 19:36 the TX draws massive current bursts and thus introduces TDMA noise floor to its own GND level and in turn also to all inputs and outputs 2012-03-02 19:37 my attempt at schematics: http://higgs.rghost.ru/36815621.image 2012-03-02 19:37 have I got it right? 2012-03-02 19:37 of course the differential input on the other module is meant to suppress those common mode noise components in signal 2012-03-02 19:38 but that usually doesn't pan out 2012-03-02 19:38 (right?) err, yup, just common GND missing at bottom 2012-03-02 19:39 one line + 2012-03-02 19:39 yes, about common gnd 2012-03-02 19:39 with this scheme, I just connect LINE- to MIC-, right? 2012-03-02 19:39 and they're not connected to the GND of the modules 2012-03-02 19:39 thus they're not affected by noise floor 2012-03-02 19:40 yes 2012-03-02 19:40 but they are still affected by noise on TX module's GND as it will "lift" whole circuit's GND reference level 2012-03-02 19:41 so both Line+ and Line- will have common mode noise 2012-03-02 19:41 hm, yes, but how differential input won't reduce that to zero? 2012-03-02 19:43 an ideal differential input will actually do that 2012-03-02 19:44 problem is most of those "differential" inputs are not perfectly balanced 2012-03-02 19:45 oh, the non-ideality of electronics ruining our clevermost plans... 2012-03-02 19:46 if that would be the worst case, is an NF-transformer something like I could just go, buy and solder in? 2012-03-02 19:46 ooh, and you want a 100nF in your GND connection as well 2012-03-02 19:46 yup 2012-03-02 19:47 so, http://rghost.ru/36815801.view 2012-03-02 19:48 cool, thanks. I'll buy the components tomorrow and assemble the device 2012-03-02 19:48 ah, one more thing 2012-03-02 19:48 the module has SMT antenna pads, so they recommend to lay out a PCB, then calculate a 50 Ohm trace and so on 2012-03-02 19:49 I'm going to wire-wrap the entire device, so I want to buy a 50 Ohm antenna with a cable, cut its SMA connector off and just solder it directly to pads 2012-03-02 19:49 would that work? 2012-03-02 19:50 should 2012-03-02 19:51 ok thanks again. I need to run now 2012-03-02 19:51 if it's an unbalanced 50Ohm output, I.E. one of the two pads is GND 2012-03-02 19:54 whitequark: you should calculate R2 so it attenuates your line-out level to sth like 100mV for 2k mic load R 2012-03-02 19:54 err R1 2012-03-02 19:56 for R1 you might reconsider 1k according to properties of your line-out. If that's e.g. no line-out but a dedicated speaker output, you may need a 100R rather than 1k, maybe even a 33R though I doubt the line-out amp is that picky 2012-03-02 19:56 1k is proper load for standard line-out as found on any arbitrary home audio equipment 2012-03-02 19:57 standard line-out maybe 2Vss, so R1=50k 2012-03-02 19:59 poti should be log type 2012-03-02 20:02 with the spead end (the origin) towards mic- 2012-03-02 20:02 spread 2012-03-02 20:13 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 20:13 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 20:33 whitequark: (trafo) http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/516201/ 2012-03-02 20:39 (antenna output) yes, it's unbalanced 2012-03-02 20:40 (line-out) it can drive a speaker directly if it's not very powerful (a headphone), or they also have an example with additional amp 2012-03-02 20:40 Load Resistance (typ) is 32 Ohm 2012-03-02 20:40 and the diff. swing is 2.2V 2012-03-02 20:41 *Vpp 2012-03-02 20:42 as per the mic in, its working voltage is 1.5V, and diff. input voltage should be 740mV RMS to keep THD <5%@1kHz 2012-03-02 20:42 at 0dB 2012-03-02 20:42 and 15.9 mV rms at 20dB 2012-03-02 20:43 I guess I should drive it with higher voltage, as the amp would add more noise at greater attenuation levels, right? 2012-03-02 20:46 (http://www.8051projects.net/e107_files/public/1300865705_32137_FT45814_sim900d_hd_v1.02.pdf, page 43) 2012-03-02 21:52 zear_ has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 22:03 antgreen has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 22:59 paroneayea has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 23:11 LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware 2012-03-02 23:32 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware