2012-02-07 00:16 xiangfu [xiangfu!~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 00:49 cladamw [cladamw!~Adam@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 01:00 qwebirc64549 [qwebirc64549!4766dbad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.102.219.173] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 01:02 BRCM publishes a datasheet for the chip in Raspberry Pi http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/615 2012-02-07 01:05 that's pretty good indeed 2012-02-07 01:22 wpwrak I look forward to learning if the datasheet comes anywhere close to meeting your standards. I have not read the whole thing, I thought the SPI, I2C and UART parts looked pretty good 2012-02-07 01:24 i had a quick look at it. it does look useful for programming. not sure it it contains all the information you need (sometimes you only find out something crucial is missing when you actually try to do something), but it looks quite promising 2012-02-07 01:30 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~zhai@1.202.15.210] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 01:37 wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@221.217.224.207] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 02:00 nice, from the Pi guys 2012-02-07 02:01 kristianpaul: what? 2012-02-07 02:01 20:02 < rjeffries> BRCM publishes a datasheet for the chip in Raspberry Pi http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/615 2012-02-07 02:02 afaik and i guess as spected i dont read too much info about video 2012-02-07 02:02 abbreviated datasheet :-) 2012-02-07 02:02 indeed ! 2012-02-07 02:03 hey, at Milkymist we have the entire source of the entire chip 2012-02-07 02:03 how about that :-) 2012-02-07 02:03 hard to beat :) 2012-02-07 02:04 but I do like the Pi project, nonetheless. I just hope they push our real boards and keep them cheap and shuffle a lot of great software on their boards. power to people... 2012-02-07 02:04 push out 2012-02-07 02:05 I _just_ like the price, but i hold my hopes, but smell another OLPC-like "cheap" computer project 2012-02-07 02:05 we'll see 2012-02-07 02:05 may be not 2012-02-07 02:05 I had another question about DocScrutinizer's idea a while back with the aluminum stripes on the bottom side of the Milkymist One PCB... 2012-02-07 02:05 unfortunately he may be sleeping already and mine and his timezones don't overlap well now, urgh ;-) 2012-02-07 02:06 haha 2012-02-07 02:06 question was about whether it had to be aluminum, or what the difference to a copper strip would be 2012-02-07 02:06 also the width, whether thicker would do as well 2012-02-07 02:06 and finally whether it would matter if the glue was conductive as well 2012-02-07 02:06 the X shaped aluminum thing? or was that tape? 2012-02-07 02:06 soem kind of tape* 2012-02-07 02:06 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@conference/linaro-connect/x-tutezgruypsougta] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 02:06 I just looked a hundreds of different conductive tapes recently and got a little shock that I had no clue which one might actually follow Joerg's idea :-) 2012-02-07 02:07 ah :-) 2012-02-07 02:07 yes, tape 2012-02-07 02:07 a big X on the bottom side of the pcb so we can remove the metal shield and still achieve the same EMI effect 2012-02-07 02:07 no, sorry. ESD 2012-02-07 02:07 so the questions are: wider ok? 1cm, 2cm? copper? conductive glue? 2012-02-07 02:08 kristianpaul: well, I personally wouldn't spend time on the Pi project because I think Milkymist is so much better, cooler, more interesting and promising 2012-02-07 02:08 but the great thing about Pi (*if* they make it there which they have not yet), is that it may offer cheap boards today 2012-02-07 02:08 oh no me either 2012-02-07 02:08 emphasis on *today* 2012-02-07 02:09 it's about speed and price 2012-02-07 02:09 as i had said, price is one thing call me atention for running a cheap webserver 2012-02-07 02:09 so it may be able to solve some problems today that Milkymist in all its coolness and promise cannot solve today 2012-02-07 02:09 wolfspraul I understand totally. a differnt view is that a decent platform for $50USD that runs Linux can be used by many people ho can not afford MM and also it is arguably a more general computer platform 2012-02-07 02:10 tought i can do that with milkymist, just no plans to order one 499usd webserve yet ;-) 2012-02-07 02:10 but i was trying rtems httpd other time 2012-02-07 02:10 was quite nice for my requiremns of running html plain webpages ;D 2012-02-07 02:10 s/requiremns/requirements 2012-02-07 02:10 kristianpaul meant: "was quite nice for my requirements of running html plain webpages ;D" 2012-02-07 02:10 one supposedly can order Raspberry Pi for delivery early March 2012-02-07 02:11 we get the price down, but not now and not to catch up/compete with Broadcom, but instead to just make Milkymist more attractive and affordable for more people... 2012-02-07 02:11 yes sure thats cool 2012-02-07 02:11 these two things do not compete 2012-02-07 02:12 one sells in qty of 100's the other will be in qty of 10K and far greater 2012-02-07 02:12 ethernet have its potencial, also *theorically* fpga acelerated webserver etc 2012-02-07 02:12 may 1,000 flowers bloom 2012-02-07 02:12 nobody has to buy one or the other. 2012-02-07 02:12 actually i had read some interest of moving fpga's to the servers fields. 2012-02-07 02:12 may be roh now more about it? 2012-02-07 02:13 anway.. lets try be usefull for 2 hrs :-) 2012-02-07 02:13 * kristianpaul away of irssi 2012-02-07 02:20 xiangfu [xiangfu!~xiangfu@125.34.161.244] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 02:41 mth [mth!bybizdhq@c74072.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 02:53 xiangfu [xiangfu!~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 02:55 i think making the X wide doesn't matter 2012-02-07 02:56 conducting glue sounds dangerous, though. you don't want to short contacts/components at the bottom of the pcb 2012-02-07 02:57 also, copper should be even better than Al. probably also more expensive 2012-02-07 03:02 hmm 2012-02-07 03:02 there are quite a few parts on the bottom side 2012-02-07 03:03 so we cannot rely on just hoping that the glue will insulate 'enough' 2012-02-07 03:03 the conductive properties of the glue are quite important then 2012-02-07 03:03 say if you push the strip down, you may push the metal layer against the parts... 2012-02-07 03:04 yup. that's probably something that needs considering 2012-02-07 03:04 unless the tape has its own fairly solid isolating layer 2012-02-07 03:04 well, when I saw those hundreds of tapes I knew I didn't know enough for sure ;-) 2012-02-07 03:04 oh I bet that exists, we just need to be clear 2012-02-07 03:04 ;-)) 2012-02-07 03:05 so maybe we need a 3-layer tape, first copper or aluminum, the insulation, then glue 2012-02-07 03:05 or a glue that is *really* insulating, even when the tape is glued over and pushed down onto small and sharp smd parts 2012-02-07 03:05 hmm ... 2012-02-07 03:05 yeah 2012-02-07 03:05 doesn't sound very convincing ;-) 2012-02-07 03:05 3-layer probably... 2012-02-07 03:06 the tape has to have some insulation already 2012-02-07 03:06 most tapes have some sort of foam at the bottom. so that foam would have to be thicker than the tallest elevation 2012-02-07 03:06 plus, when you compress it, e.g., when putting the tape, it must extend again 2012-02-07 03:06 you mean it must be impossible for any part to protrude through the foam? 2012-02-07 03:06 and that's not even talking about compressing it with the case off ;-) 2012-02-07 03:07 yup 2012-02-07 03:07 like I said, it sounds like we need a strong insulation layer under the copper/aluminum 2012-02-07 03:07 just hoping the glue is enough won't do 2012-02-07 03:07 yes, that sounds good 2012-02-07 03:08 if you can't find that, maybe some separate isolating sheet and then the conductive tape on top 2012-02-07 03:08 I'm sure we are not the first ones with this requirement, so it comes down to finding the right tape 2012-02-07 03:08 3M seems to have a lot of tapes 2012-02-07 03:08 a separate sheet would also make it easier to see damage 2012-02-07 03:08 DocScrutinizer51 [DocScrutinizer51!~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 03:08 i think that's an understatement ;-)) 2012-02-07 03:22 Openfree` [Openfree`!~Openfreer@64.191.99.80] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 03:47 Openfree` [Openfree`!~Openfreer@64.191.99.80] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 05:22 cladamw [cladamw!~Adam@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 05:59 losinggeneration [losinggeneration!~quassel@75-162-51-39.desm.qwest.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 06:36 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@conference/linaro-connect/x-nccnrlsjncidpuro] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 06:46 lindi- [lindi-!~quassel@tachyon.hut.fi] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 07:02 Openfree` [Openfree`!~Openfreer@116.228.88.131] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 07:12 Ayla [Ayla!~paul@14.157.26.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 07:31 rejon [rejon!~rejon@jp.fabricatorz.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 07:31 wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@123.125.157.59] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 07:32 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@leased-line-46-53-195-5.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 07:33 wait what? you're now planning to stick the shielding (X) *to the PCBA*?? 2012-02-07 07:33 that's for sure not what I suggested 2012-02-07 07:53 this definitely won't work for the intended purpose 2012-02-07 07:54 I suggested to stick the X to the plastic plate of the case, not to the PCB 2012-02-07 07:56 we talked about this to gory detail, about using conducting posts to connect to the (protective) GND of the PCB via the mounting holes for the posts 2012-02-07 07:57 about no concerns that glue does NOT conduct as we can connect each bar of the X separately so the X has no need to connect in the center where the bars cross each other 2012-02-07 08:00 IIRC you complained that it's much manual work to cut that metal sheet to shape, and I suggested to use sticky tape *instead* 2012-02-07 08:01 btw IIRC I also suggested you could use aluminium varnish spray and coat the inside of your plastic case plate 2012-02-07 08:01 rejon [rejon!~rejon@jp.fabricatorz.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 08:02 and you for sure won't need to isolate any of the tape or varnish against the plastic 2012-02-07 08:03 and depending on mechanical rigidness of both the PCB and the case plastic plate (with attached conductive shield) you may omit the isolation sheet between the both 2012-02-07 08:05 when there's like 10mm distance from highest capacitors or whatever on PCB down to the bottom plate of the case with the shield, then the air should isolate enough and no way case or PCB would bend so they touch each other 2012-02-07 08:05 o/ daywork 2012-02-07 08:49 rejon [rejon!~rejon@123.125.157.59] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 08:50 valhalla [valhalla!~valhalla@81-174-22-63.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 08:52 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~zhai@1.202.15.210] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 08:56 rejon [rejon!~rejon@jp.fabricatorz.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 09:13 DocScrutinizer [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 09:21 valhalla [valhalla!~valhalla@81-174-22-63.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 09:22 EOF-sensei [EOF-sensei!~temp@dsl-173-206-246-129.tor.primus.ca] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 09:40 EOF-sensei1 [EOF-sensei1!~temp@dsl-173-206-246-105.tor.primus.ca] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 09:42 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~zhai@1.202.15.210] has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-02-07 09:42 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~zhai@1.202.15.210] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 09:55 GNUtoo [GNUtoo!~GNUtoo@host29-81-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 10:37 fossrox [fossrox!~fossrox@unaffiliated/fossrox] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 10:53 jivs [jivs!~jivs@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 11:06 wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@222.130.118.13] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 11:12 cladamw [cladamw!~Adam@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 11:13 DocScrutinizer - ok cool, read your response - thanks! 2012-02-07 11:13 so... 2012-02-07 11:13 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@mx2.promwad.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 11:13 the first misunderstanding was that you mean to glue the tape on the inside of the bottom acrylic 2012-02-07 11:13 meant 2012-02-07 11:13 that will not be 10mm from the capacitors, maybe only 3-5 or so 2012-02-07 11:15 and as far as the pcb touching on the tape, why not just take a tape where the top side is insulated? that would prevent that for sure 2012-02-07 11:15 so it's 3-layer - glue, then aluminum/copper, then insulation 2012-02-07 11:16 glue that in a large X onto the inside of the acrylic bottom panel, connecting only on one side of the 2 strips 2012-02-07 11:16 GNUtoo [GNUtoo!~GNUtoo@host29-81-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 11:19 antoniodariush [antoniodariush!~antonioda@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 11:24 mstevens [mstevens!~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 11:36 yes 2012-02-07 11:36 ack 2012-02-07 11:37 you also want to have tape on edges 2012-02-07 11:37 so a rectangle with an X inside 2012-02-07 11:38 unless your acrylic s already in a metalframe 2012-02-07 11:38 ttyl 2012-02-07 11:39 -15 here. cig at work 2012-02-07 11:39 outside :-/ 2012-02-07 11:43 cig? 2012-02-07 11:45 cybernetic implant growth 2012-02-07 11:47 :) 2012-02-07 11:50 and apparently those start to fail start to fail at -15C 2012-02-07 11:52 it's a matter of changing the antifreeze, simply 2012-02-07 11:55 it's 20 degrees warmer here than last week: http://outside.hut.fi/month.html 2012-02-07 12:19 ok, rectangle as well :-) 2012-02-07 12:19 the rectangle will connect all 4 edges electrically, I assume 2012-02-07 12:20 but the X will only connect on one side of the 2 strips? guess so (that's what was said before) 2012-02-07 12:20 again: thanks! 2012-02-07 12:25 in case anyone is interested in IC production costs, I ran into this nice overview with prices http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices 2012-02-07 12:29 cladamw [cladamw!~Adam@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 12:50 * pabs3 mentioned Qi on https://lwn.net/Articles/479371/ 2012-02-07 12:52 pabs3: nice, thanks for remembering Qi ;-) 2012-02-07 13:29 LunaVorax_ [LunaVorax_!~LunaVorax@salle205.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 13:35 LunaVorax_ [LunaVorax_!~LunaVorax@salle205.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 13:51 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@mx2.promwad.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 14:04 woakas [woakas!~woakas@186.28.53.233] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 15:08 whoever here was doubtful about osPI 2012-02-07 15:08 rue, IIRC 2012-02-07 15:08 https://github.com/osPID/osPID-Hardware 2012-02-07 15:08 roh 2012-02-07 15:08 was ist 2012-02-07 15:08 was it 2012-02-07 15:10 ah 2012-02-07 15:53 emeb [emeb!~ericb@ip72-223-81-94.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 16:56 kilae [kilae!~chatzilla@catv-161-018.tbwil.ch] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 17:27 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@conference/linaro-connect/x-uvypzhftamkmsaky] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 17:35 ah. nice to see 2012-02-07 17:35 hm.. just need to find a machine to view em on 2012-02-07 19:25 methril [methril!~methril@188.141.121.132] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 19:27 EOF-sensei [EOF-sensei!~temp@dsl-173-206-246-95.tor.primus.ca] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 19:31 GNUtoo [GNUtoo!~gnutoo@host29-81-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 19:46 MabYwen [MabYwen!~ewan@dslb-178-007-023-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 20:15 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@leased-line-46-53-195-5.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 20:21 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@conference/linaro-connect/x-yxuzaumkemmzgykn] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 21:08 mstevens [mstevens!~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 21:11 kuribas [kuribas!~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 21:22 kukac [kukac!~kukac@catv-80-98-205-163.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 21:41 antgreen [antgreen!~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890738.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 22:49 dvdk [dvdk!~dvdkhlng@g225042053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 22:51 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@conference/linaro-connect/x-omdpsreyrudumgly] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-02-07 23:09 EOF-sensei1 [EOF-sensei1!~temp@dsl-173-206-246-95.tor.primus.ca] has joined #qi-hardware