2012-01-12 00:19 <Ayla> DocScrutinizer, who's bashing uBoot?
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2012-01-12 02:16 <kristianpaul> DocScrutinizer: first cpu was pentium II 133Mhz wih MMX ;)
2012-01-12 02:16 <kristianpaul> and i still have it, other board that compaq box died by 2004 :/
2012-01-12 02:18 <kristianpaul> visual basic and turbo c first compiler..
2012-01-12 02:18 * kristianpaul feel bad about visual basic
2012-01-12 02:18 <kristianpaul> but there was not internet and i got the book for near free 
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2012-01-12 02:44 <kristianpaul> oh really http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/allwinner_a10_gplcompliant_computer_15 ?..
2012-01-12 02:44 <kristianpaul> let see
2012-01-12 02:46 <kristianpaul> ha !!
2012-01-12 02:47 <kristianpaul> uses kicad and fed plus a makefile !!
2012-01-12 03:09 <wpwrak> (fped) kewl ;-)
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2012-01-12 06:40 <DocScrutinizer> CONFIDENTIAL! ;-P  ttp://maemo.cloud-7.de/hidden/20120111_001.jpg
2012-01-12 06:41 <DocScrutinizer> (in case you wonder: I intentionally crippled the URL, so it doesn't get spidered)
2012-01-12 06:41 <kyak> oh, what a huge leak :)
2012-01-12 06:44 <wpwrak> kyak: all this is code. when you visit STE the next time, innocently ask about project Laura :)
2012-01-12 06:46 <DocScrutinizer> You might cause eyebrows rising - we got EVB Jenny-v1 and Jenny-v2
2012-01-12 06:46 <kyak> Laura is deprecated now that they've got a dish washine machine (or DWM) :)
2012-01-12 06:49 <DocScrutinizer> there's no *Project* Jenny though - it's just the baseband CPU core iirc, on Thorium
2012-01-12 06:51 <DocScrutinizer> I should check if the other core is actually codename Laura
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2012-01-12 06:55 <kyak> we already know too much
2012-01-12 06:55 <DocScrutinizer> indeed :-D
2012-01-12 06:57 <DocScrutinizer> beter look there: http://www.google.de/search?q=novathor+mali400 http://www.google.de/search?q=novathor+snowball
2012-01-12 07:01 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.google.de/search?q=Thor+7400
2012-01-12 07:20 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: what's wrong with uboot bashing?
2012-01-12 07:22 <DocScrutinizer> well, on #maemo I had a discussion with a guy who claimed meego uBoot was buggy and SHR uboot useless, so he "implemented" ext3 support
2012-01-12 07:22 <DocScrutinizer> he didn't get the point why meego had to remove ext3 support due to size limitations
2012-01-12 07:24 <DocScrutinizer> I OTOH don't get the point why you *need* any of that, as it's not particularly hurting to have a small dedicated fat partition for kernel
2012-01-12 07:24 <DocScrutinizer> or a plain unformated raw partition
2012-01-12 07:26 * whitequark prefers raw ones
2012-01-12 07:26 <DocScrutinizer> also the term "uboot booting into ext3" made me frown, as it's the kernel that boots into a FS, uboot just loads kernel *from* some location
2012-01-12 07:30 <DocScrutinizer> on GTA02 I had a 16GB uSD with a ~14GB VFAT with kernel and all my MP3, and it was very convenient to use this card in a USB stick cardreader with any PC
2012-01-12 07:34 <wpwrak> when u-boot was young, it laid awake at night, dreaming of being an operating system
2012-01-12 07:34 <wpwrak> now it's old, fat, and thinks it's an operating system
2012-01-12 07:36 <wpwrak> btw, for booting from strange file systems, there's always the option of establishing your own mapping. almost 20 years of booting with lilo say it works ;-)
2012-01-12 07:42 <DocScrutinizer> yep
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2012-01-12 08:02 <whitequark> it's a variation of jwz's law
2012-01-12 08:02 <whitequark> "every bootloader expands until it becomes a horribly incomplete operating system implementation"
2012-01-12 08:03 <whitequark> "those who do not are repalced with those who do" (grub1/grub2)
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2012-01-12 11:13 <kristianpaul> s/fed/fped
2012-01-12 11:16 <mth> hmm, why is JFFS2 enabled in the nanonote kernel defconfig?
2012-01-12 11:17 <kristianpaul> openwrt legacy?
2012-01-12 11:18 <mth> if there is no reason to keep it enabled, we can save some ram by disabling it
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2012-01-12 12:18 <whitequark> http://www.ixbt.com/news/hard/index.shtml?15/40/98
2012-01-12 12:22 <whitequark> oh, stupid me
2012-01-12 12:22 <whitequark> http://www.marvell.com/company/news/pressDetail.do?releaseID=2003
2012-01-12 12:29 <wolfspraul> just got my ColorHug! :-) http://www.hughski.com/
2012-01-12 12:31 <blogic> whitequark: looking for see mips run linux
2012-01-12 12:31 <blogic> and G points me at whitequark.org
2012-01-12 12:32 <blogic> could that be you ?! :D
2012-01-12 12:32 <blogic> files.whitequark.org/Morgan.Kaufmann.See.MIPS.Run.2nd.Edition.p...
2012-01-12 12:36 <whitequark> blogic: oops
2012-01-12 12:36 <whitequark> that's a symlink to /var/to... no you haven't seen that.
2012-01-12 12:37 <blogic> what ?
2012-01-12 12:37 <blogic> who are you
2012-01-12 12:37 <blogic> anyhow G lists you as hit nr1
2012-01-12 12:37 <blogic> :D
2012-01-12 12:37 <whitequark> lol
2012-01-12 12:37 <whitequark> (what) a symlink to /var/torrents.
2012-01-12 12:37 <whitequark> I'm the only seeder for that book on tpb.
2012-01-12 12:38 <blogic> haha
2012-01-12 12:38 <blogic> seed and copy
2012-01-12 12:38 <whitequark> because I've had a hard time finding it and I wanted to make it easier.
2012-01-12 12:38 <whitequark> but hit no1 is funny
2012-01-12 12:38 <whitequark> hm
2012-01-12 12:38 <whitequark> for me, that's amazon
2012-01-12 12:38 <blogic>  "see mips run linux" filetype:pdf
2012-01-12 12:38 <whitequark> and wq.org is 4th
2012-01-12 12:38 <whitequark> ahh
2012-01-12 12:38 <whitequark> yes, that.
2012-01-12 12:39 <whitequark> I don't care actually
2012-01-12 12:39 <whitequark> I'll let it stay this way.
2012-01-12 12:39 <blogic> yes
2012-01-12 12:39 <blogic> i just wanted to say "thank you" :D
2012-01-12 12:40 <whitequark> thanks:D the world is smaller than it looks like
2012-01-12 12:40 <whitequark> maybe I'll go to Germany next year and meet DocScrutinizer accidentally...
2012-01-12 12:41 <blogic> that did happen to me once
2012-01-12 12:41 <blogic> well not with DocScrutinizer
2012-01-12 12:41 <blogic> as a 10 year old child i was on vacation in denmark with my parents
2012-01-12 12:41 <blogic> the house next to us was a spanish family and i spent the holidays playing in the garden with their 10 year old son
2012-01-12 12:42 <blogic> at age 23-24 i was in london and on a random street a guy taps on my shoulder and says ... "you are john"
2012-01-12 12:42 <blogic> and it was that exact same spanish dude that recognized me
2012-01-12 12:42 <blogic> very bizarre
2012-01-12 12:42 <blogic> specially as i have been in londond for a total of 5 days in my life
2012-01-12 12:42 <blogic> :D
2012-01-12 12:43 <Ayla> cool story :)
2012-01-12 12:47 <whitequark> heh
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2012-01-12 13:00 <zrafa> wolfspra1l: ColorHug : cool ! :)
2012-01-12 13:01 <wolfspra1l> yes, a very nice open hardware project
2012-01-12 13:02 <wolfspra1l> https://gitorious.org/colorhug
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2012-01-12 13:35 <whitequark> wanna something funny?
2012-01-12 13:35 <whitequark> I've just written a decompiler for AS3 flash bytecode
2012-01-12 13:35 <whitequark> just look at this miracle of a compiler they have
2012-01-12 13:35 <whitequark> http://pastie.org/3172312
2012-01-12 13:36 <whitequark> 317, 318, 325
2012-01-12 13:36 <whitequark> 318 is never reached
2012-01-12 13:36 <whitequark> and 325 is invalid opcode
2012-01-12 13:36 <whitequark> I repeat: their compiler emits invalid unreachable code, and their verifier eats that >_<
2012-01-12 13:36 <whitequark> so fucking incredibly braindead
2012-01-12 13:37 <blogic> AS3 is what soc ?
2012-01-12 13:37 <blogic> the apple thing ?
2012-01-12 13:37 <whitequark> err
2012-01-12 13:37 <whitequark> Flash ActionScript 3.
2012-01-12 13:37 <blogic> ahhhhh
2012-01-12 13:37 <whitequark> that banner thingy.
2012-01-12 13:37 <whitequark> I am continously amazed by its stupidity.
2012-01-12 14:12 <wpwrak> 325 looks valid in thelisting
2012-01-12 14:12 <wpwrak> anyway, if318 is never reached, then neither is 325 -> no problem ;-)
2012-01-12 14:34 <whitequark> wpwrak: 325 jumps past the end of function
2012-01-12 14:34 <whitequark> there's no L10
2012-01-12 14:34 <whitequark> and why the hell a sane compiler would emit something like this, ever?
2012-01-12 14:35 <larsc> debug information
2012-01-12 14:38 <whitequark> hm
2012-01-12 14:38 <whitequark> larsc: can you provide an example?
2012-01-12 14:39 <wpwrak> moore's law :)
2012-01-12 14:43 <larsc> whitequark: i have no idea what i'm talking about ;)
2012-01-12 14:44 <larsc> and i have no idea how action script works, but my first guess would be that this simply aren't instructions, but data
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2012-01-12 15:00 <whitequark> larsc: nope, there's a LOT of metadata accompanying these methods
2012-01-12 15:00 <whitequark> really a lot
2012-01-12 15:00 <whitequark> and the debugging info has another format
2012-01-12 15:00 <larsc> ok
2012-01-12 15:01 <whitequark> it's also stupid enough to do things like:
2012-01-12 15:01 <whitequark>  negate
2012-01-12 15:01 <whitequark>   iffalse
2012-01-12 15:01 <whitequark> etc.
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2012-01-12 15:44 <whitequark> want to see a piece of modern art?
2012-01-12 15:44 <whitequark> a CFG of a big method in bytecode.
2012-01-12 15:44 <whitequark> oh, nevermind. I think I've just DoSed imgur.
2012-01-12 15:45 <whitequark> sent a 6MiB png which expands to ~1 gig bitmap.
2012-01-12 15:54 jluis [jluis!~jluis@176.Red-81-38-165.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #qi-hardware
2012-01-12 16:08 <viric> :)
2012-01-12 16:11 <larsc> whitequark: you do strange things today
2012-01-12 16:14 emeb [emeb!~ericb@ip72-223-81-94.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #qi-hardware
2012-01-12 16:16 <whitequark> larsc: well
2012-01-12 16:17 <whitequark> a friend of mine asked to deobfuscate him a Flash file
2012-01-12 16:17 <whitequark> ... and I know Ruby, in which it takes one day to implement entire Flash binary format (compared to a week in C++)...
2012-01-12 16:18 <whitequark> and I have been working on a static analyzer for OOP languages recently
2012-01-12 16:18 <whitequark> so I've had a ready to use dead code elimination pass
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2012-01-12 17:04 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1nor: lock the read-only portions of the flash after flashing (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/2e46384
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2012-01-12 19:17 <viric> oh, I saw uboot picked the nanonote support on october
2012-01-12 19:17 <viric> do you run the latest uboot?
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2012-01-12 19:23 <whitequark> LOL
2012-01-12 19:23 <whitequark> I've reduced the code size by 100k
2012-01-12 19:23 <whitequark> without impairing any functionality
2012-01-12 19:23 <whitequark> *10%
2012-01-12 19:23 <whitequark> that 10% were dead code.
2012-01-12 19:24 <whitequark> are Adobe developers too stupid to read, maybe, LLVM tutorial? or a 40-year-old book on compilers?
2012-01-12 19:24 <whitequark> I assume they are.
2012-01-12 19:25 <whitequark> what did I do? I ran a single DCE pass. In, maybe, 100 lines of code.
2012-01-12 19:26 <viric> what do you talk about?
2012-01-12 19:27 <whitequark> a friend asked me to make a deobfuscator for a certain Flash file
2012-01-12 19:28 <whitequark> the obfuscation consisted of a jmp and 9 bytes of random invalid opcodes
2012-01-12 19:28 <whitequark> I made a simple dead code elimination pass
2012-01-12 19:28 <whitequark> it eliminated all of the obfuscation and also a whole lot of dead code which was emitted by Flash compiler
2012-01-12 19:28 <whitequark> circa 10%.
2012-01-12 19:32 <viric> ok
2012-01-12 19:36 <whitequark> no wonder it's so slow and cpu-hungry
2012-01-12 19:36 <whitequark> I guess the VM is written in similar style.
2012-01-12 19:40 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: fbcon: continue parsing parameters after an error. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/a836fb4
2012-01-12 19:40 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: fbcon: optimize parameters parsing loop. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b4105ec
2012-01-12 19:47 <wpwrak> whitequark: you probably care more about that pile of junk than anyone at adobe ;-)
2012-01-12 19:57 <whitequark> wpwrak: probably
2012-01-12 19:57 <whitequark> at least my code is way more complex than theirs
2012-01-12 19:57 <whitequark> I doubt they ever heard about DCE or CFG
2012-01-12 19:58 <whitequark> ... or that their lookupswitch opcode and jump 0; returnvoid is a psi node remnants
2012-01-12 20:01 <Ayla> hi
2012-01-12 20:01 <whitequark> hello
2012-01-12 20:01 <Ayla> can anybody enlight me about the __setup() macro?
2012-01-12 20:04 <Ayla> it takes a callback as a parameter,
2012-01-12 20:04 <Ayla> but I can't find a documentation about what means the return value
2012-01-12 20:04 <Ayla> on some drivers, the callback returns 1 all the time, even when everything went right (e.g. on drivers/video/console/fbcon.c)
2012-01-12 20:05 <viric> Ayla: I'd also like to know
2012-01-12 20:05 <viric> Ayla: how people learn about those macros? __init, ...
2012-01-12 20:06 <Ayla> on other drivers, like drivers/iommu/intel-iommu.c the callback returns 0
2012-01-12 20:06 <Ayla> viric: I guess experience :)
2012-01-12 20:06 <whitequark> lxr? 
2012-01-12 20:06 <whitequark> http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v3.2/+code=__setup
2012-01-12 20:07 <viric> whitequark: you mean reverse engineering? :)
2012-01-12 20:08 <whitequark> viric: I mean "the code is the best documentation"
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2012-01-12 20:08 <whitequark> afaik no other docs exist on these macros
2012-01-12 20:08 <viric> sometimes there is not a big difference between source and binary
2012-01-12 20:08 <whitequark> (except for developer's brains)
2012-01-12 20:09 <viric> also some people use to name the electronic schematics 'source'
2012-01-12 20:09 <viric> while for me it's still some sort of binary
2012-01-12 20:09 <Artyom> kristianpaul hello :)
2012-01-12 20:09 <viric> usually with zero information about why those components and no others
2012-01-12 20:10 <whitequark> magic
2012-01-12 20:10 <whitequark> you have to accept that ;)
2012-01-12 20:10 <viric> people go through a process for the design
2012-01-12 20:10 <viric> if that isn't document, it's like no source for me
2012-01-12 20:10 <viric> documented
2012-01-12 20:15 <kristianpaul> hi..
2012-01-12 20:18 <larsc> viric: ldd3.pdf is a good start i think
2012-01-12 20:32 <Ayla> larsc: is that a problem if one variable has the same name as a structure?
2012-01-12 20:32 <Ayla> should I name it differently?
2012-01-12 20:33 <larsc> nope
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2012-01-12 20:34 <larsc> variables and structs live in different namespaces
2012-01-12 20:34 <larsc> i actually quite often write 'struct foo *foo' in drivers
2012-01-12 20:34 <Ayla> ok, thanks
2012-01-12 20:36 <viric> ah ok
2012-01-12 20:36 <viric> larsc: I always wanted to read that... good reminder :)
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2012-01-12 21:30 <viric> a program I wrote (and in openwrt by xiangfu) had an article in linux-magazin.
2012-01-12 21:31 <viric> I'll take a cup of 'Cichorium' to celebrate
2012-01-12 21:36 <larsc> got a link? or is it offline media?
2012-01-12 21:39 <wolfspra1l> viric: congratulations, that's a nice recognition
2012-01-12 21:39 <wolfspra1l> what is Cichorium? (searching...) :-)
2012-01-12 21:41 <wolfspra1l> this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cichorium
2012-01-12 21:41 <wolfspra1l> interesting
2012-01-12 21:46 <viric> yes, very nice. the only cite known by google of that software :)
2012-01-12 21:47 <viric> I thought I was alone in the world using it. and maybe there is someone else
2012-01-12 21:48 <viric> also long ago they published about "Task Spooler" http://www.linux-magazin.de/Heft-Abo/Ausgaben/2008/05/Tooltipps
2012-01-12 21:49 <viric> so, I can only flatter their good taste, even never having read that magazine :)
2012-01-12 21:50 <wolfspra1l> viric: sorry I still don't understand. is the new article online or not?
2012-01-12 21:50 <viric> under payment
2012-01-12 21:58 <wolfspra1l> viric: aha. reading 'other varieties [of Cichorium] are grown for their roots, which are used as a coffee substitute'
2012-01-12 21:58 <wolfspra1l> that sounds more familiar :-)
2012-01-12 22:00 <viric> hehe
2012-01-12 22:00 <viric> I didn't imagine you would engage in an investigation ;)
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2012-01-12 22:10 <wolfspra1l> oh you can imagine me strawling over the winter meadows tomorrow, color wikipedia photo in my hands, searching for that Cichorium
2012-01-12 22:10 <wolfspra1l> or maybe not, ok. have to try usb-midi :-)
2012-01-12 22:13 <viric> haha
2012-01-12 22:15 <DocScrutinizer> whitequark: how comes you think meeting me might be a desirable event? ;-D
2012-01-12 22:30 frdminc [frdminc!47c0a200@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.192.162.0] has joined #qi-hardware
2012-01-12 22:31 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: because I've seen your work and it's awesome. Even if we'd have radically different opinions on some- (or every)thing, an event which I'd not disregard as entirely impossible, I'd say that it would be the time for me to shut up and listen.
2012-01-12 22:32 <frdminc> Anyone around who could help me / point me to doc on how to get a DMX light working with M1/Flickernoise?
2012-01-12 22:32 <whitequark> frdminc: try #milkymist
2012-01-12 22:32 <frdminc> whitequark: thanks, will do
2012-01-12 22:36 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: maybe he thinks it's generally desirable for you to be well fed ? :)
2012-01-12 22:45 <wolfspra1l> frdminc: welcome to Qi Hardware btw. You have a Milkymist One?
2012-01-12 22:45 <wolfspra1l> if so - what are your plans with it?
2012-01-12 23:01 <frdminc> wolfspra1l: trying to get it set up in time for a small college party tomorrow night. we have a projector and 3 LED DMX lights an alum donated a while back
2012-01-12 23:01 <whitequark> wpwrak: how many innocent people has he consumed already?
2012-01-12 23:02 <wolfspra1l> frdminc: oh wow, nice!
2012-01-12 23:03 <wolfspra1l> ok by all means, if you run into trouble holler here or in #milkymist
2012-01-12 23:09 <wpwrak> whitequark: dunno. i've heard he's kinda skinny. but i'm not sure if this means that he doesn't eat much or just that he's hungry
2012-01-12 23:16 <whitequark> maybe both
2012-01-12 23:17 <whitequark> it's or and not xor ;)
2012-01-12 23:51 <pabs3> whitequark: will you release that flash decoder thing? sounds useful for web hackers
2012-01-12 23:51 <whitequark> pabs3: hm
2012-01-12 23:52 <whitequark> on one hand, it has already generated an enormous (for 2500 lines of code done in three days) amount of profit for me
2012-01-12 23:52 * pabs3 is the Debian maintainer of flasm, a flash disassembler (only works with old flash)
2012-01-12 23:52 <whitequark> on the other hand, anyone clever enough to understand how that works could possibly write the same
2012-01-12 23:52 <whitequark> so, I think I will
2012-01-12 23:53 <pabs3> awesome
2012-01-12 23:53 <pabs3> poke me if you do
2012-01-12 23:53 <whitequark> a colleague plans on writing an IDA-like IDE
2012-01-12 23:53 <whitequark> but that'll stay out of my reach, and I think it has some changes to stay closed-source
2012-01-12 23:53 <whitequark> my library will be packaged as a Ruby gem
2012-01-12 23:53 <whitequark> so I think there's nothing you can do
2012-01-12 23:54 <pabs3> there is something like that here: http://bokken.inguma.eu
2012-01-12 23:54 <whitequark> hm
2012-01-12 23:54 <whitequark> pyew
2012-01-12 23:54 <whitequark> is that in python?
2012-01-12 23:54 <pabs3> yes
2012-01-12 23:55 <whitequark> also, very ambituous. that's sad.
2012-01-12 23:55 <pabs3> why sad?
2012-01-12 23:56 <whitequark> ambituous software projects in python are almost always written by novice developers, and tend to have quite bad code quality.
2012-01-12 23:56 <whitequark> I'll look into it anyway
2012-01-12 23:59 <whitequark> pabs3: http://inguma.eu/projects/bokken/repository/entry/ui/opcodes.py
2012-01-12 23:59 <whitequark> x86 is hardcoded everywhere
2012-01-12 23:59 <whitequark> that's what I was talking about