2012-01-10 00:40 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 00:44 woakas [woakas!~woakas@200.106.218.64] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 00:49 cladamw [cladamw!~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 00:54 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 01:08 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 01:27 woakas [woakas!~woakas@200.106.218.64] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 02:05 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 02:26 xiangfu [xiangfu!~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 02:52 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 03:34 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 03:53 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 04:24 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 04:42 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@221.219.117.186] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 05:05 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 05:22 cladamw [cladamw!~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 05:40 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 05:42 moo 2012-01-10 05:45 how was survival in the first days of this new year ? 2012-01-10 05:46 * DocScrutinizer is a fan of forbidding use of short options in scripts ;-D 2012-01-10 05:46 well, things get a lil bit less demanding 2012-01-10 05:47 playing with Lauterbach is way more fun than ClearCase with proprietary policy enforcement wrapper XP 2012-01-10 05:48 lauterbach ... some little known contemporary philosopher ? 2012-01-10 05:48 some ugly hw in circuit emulator 2012-01-10 05:48 ah :) 2012-01-10 05:49 http://www.lauterbach.com/frames.html?country=de?home_d.html 2012-01-10 05:49 a neighbour :) 2012-01-10 05:50 I guess the expensive part has to be the complex software though, not the ugly hw which I can't see how it may cause costs of 15..20k per licence/unit 2012-01-10 05:51 it's the invisible power of ignorance :) 2012-01-10 05:51 hehe 2012-01-10 05:51 D-85635 Höhenkirchen-Siegertsbrunn -- a neighbour? not exactly 2012-01-10 05:52 ah . that was the fair 2012-01-10 05:52 (nuernberg, the first thing you see when you load their home page) 2012-01-10 05:53 well, since I don't travel to TPE 6 times a year anymore, my take on what's a neighbour probably changed a bit 2012-01-10 05:53 o.O 2012-01-10 05:53 aaah, embedded world - yeah 2012-01-10 05:53 yeah, in those days, anything within a lightmonth was "pretty close" ;-) 2012-01-10 05:54 paroneayea [paroneayea!~user@fsf/member/paroneayea] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 05:54 hehe 2012-01-10 05:54 indeed 2012-01-10 05:55 "as long as it pings" 2012-01-10 05:55 how's the internal jet-lag ? 2012-01-10 05:55 if it answers to ping, it's not dead yet :) 2012-01-10 05:55 getting better, awoke today after 5h sleep just 30min early of my alarm clock 2012-01-10 05:56 your superego is strong but inaccurate 2012-01-10 05:57 actually I had a weird dream about timeslices or sth that probably made me wake up 2012-01-10 05:58 yesterday I got a new "consultant" colleague - his acconts are working better after 4h than my whole account and PC installation after 4 weeks :-S 2012-01-10 05:58 ah, being haunted by work even while your brain ought to enjoy nocturnal wish fulfillment 2012-01-10 05:59 yep 2012-01-10 05:59 (consultant) hehe ;-) 2012-01-10 05:59 that's when I quit my last employment, some 30 years ago 2012-01-10 05:59 rationale: nobody paying me for the thinking done when I'm asleep 2012-01-10 06:00 wow, all because of a bad dream 2012-01-10 06:00 unless I am paid for tasks rather than time 2012-01-10 06:01 hmm, didn't this kind of role exist in the "minority report" universe ? 2012-01-10 06:01 unpaid role, yes :-D 2012-01-10 06:01 not sure if they were too happy about their jobs, though 2012-01-10 06:02 definitely they weren't 2012-01-10 06:03 the most annoying thing: now may days are too short to keep up the voluntary work I've done so far while also doing this 9-5 job 2012-01-10 06:03 8-6 actually 2012-01-10 06:05 yeah, that's a normal effect of "regular work" 2012-01-10 06:05 if you truly had plenty of time left, the work day would be longer 2012-01-10 06:05 * DocScrutinizer ponders to have another coffee or leave for work 2012-01-10 06:06 wpwrak: yep, so true, so sad 2012-01-10 06:07 paroneayea [paroneayea!~user@fsf/member/paroneayea] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 06:07 * DocScrutinizer decides for coffee 2012-01-10 06:07 ...and a bit more IRC chatting 2012-01-10 06:07 ;-) 2012-01-10 06:10 coffee, IRC, and marzipan :-D For minutes I love my life : 2012-01-10 06:10 until you crash from the sugar high :) 2012-01-10 06:17 * DocScrutinizer idly ponders about the ~25% of your income you have to pay for health insurance here. 2012-01-10 06:18 you'll see the value of it when it comes to that expensive lung cancer medication :) 2012-01-10 06:19 lung cancer medication is probably 11g of lead 2012-01-10 06:19 ~1$ 2012-01-10 06:20 heh, such things tend to disappoint the optimist as well as the pessimist 2012-01-10 06:20 the optimist thinks nothing bad will happen, yet it does 2012-01-10 06:22 meanwhile, the pessimist hopes for a swift ending, yet that won't happen either, for various reasons. but then, all this just means that life is full of surprises :) 2012-01-10 06:23 DocScrutinizer [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 06:24 hmm, 24h disconnect, missed the pessimist part :-) 2012-01-10 06:24 meanwhile, the pessimist hopes for a swift ending, yet that won't happen either, for various reasons. but then, all this just means that life is full of surprises :) 2012-01-10 06:24 hehe 2012-01-10 06:24 but i guess i should give you a less gloomy perspective for today's journey :) 2012-01-10 06:24 nah, no problem 2012-01-10 06:27 this raspberry Pi board seems so extremely cheap in money... Might be worth to have a look at it 2012-01-10 06:28 hmm. i realize that one of the difficulties of marketing milkymist is to understand how the various effects will work with the audience, considering that a good portion of them will be on ecstasy 2012-01-10 06:28 hehe 2012-01-10 06:28 remember the $100 laptop ? watch the pi do the same sort of "inflation" :) 2012-01-10 06:29 which inflation do you mean? 2012-01-10 06:29 prices generally dropping? 2012-01-10 06:30 dropping in relation to purchase power but increasing in numeric value 2012-01-10 06:30 mhm 2012-01-10 06:30 e.g. OLPC sold their units for a lot more than USD 100 2012-01-10 06:30 yep 2012-01-10 06:31 so maybe that was "USD 100" in some frame of reference 2012-01-10 06:31 but ... 2012-01-10 06:31 in the end a "normal laptop" was more economic 2012-01-10 06:31 with a little help from intel, to exterminate that amd weed 2012-01-10 06:32 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 06:32 "intel! hah! I feel like starting/continuing with tizen bashing 2012-01-10 06:33 enjoy kicking the dead ? :) 2012-01-10 06:33 well, stillborn even 2012-01-10 06:33 or maybe even zombified in the womb. who knows. 2012-01-10 06:34 yeah, here I actually do. They not only wasted everybody's time but also managed to ruin maemo, and meego 2012-01-10 06:35 well, in ruining meego Nokia had their good share 2012-01-10 06:35 i'm kinda puzzled how they succeed in being so consistent in mis-managing this 2012-01-10 06:35 the git repos tizen folk released are pretty loltastic 2012-01-10 06:35 I can't help but thinking it's intentional to follow a secret plan 2012-01-10 06:36 i mean it's intel. c'mon. if they have a halfway decent plan, they can pull it through. they don't need to add sickly partners like nokia. 2012-01-10 06:36 microsoft couldn't have come up with a better strategy to fsck linux 2012-01-10 06:36 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 06:36 indeed :) 2012-01-10 06:36 DocScrutinizer: lets wait how long broadcom pays for that uboot ;) 2012-01-10 06:37 of course, google are having a merry dance on that grave :) 2012-01-10 06:37 hi roh :-D 2012-01-10 06:37 roh: probably until it goes olpc^Wbelly up 2012-01-10 06:38 wpwrak: olpc is brmc now also? i meant the rasberry 2012-01-10 06:39 roh: i meant the price explosion 2012-01-10 06:39 roh: usd 25 is probably too low, considering volume 2012-01-10 06:41 wpwrak: wouldnt say that. considering they pay nothing for the chips and have not case... 2012-01-10 06:42 yeah. no case = no volume :) 2012-01-10 06:42 or, if volume > noise then case :) 2012-01-10 06:43 or do you mean something readymade?... and even then.. for 16-25 euros one can buy complete routers with 500mhz cpus.. including case 2012-01-10 06:43 they seem to be aiming at the uk educational market. kinda like acorn did millenia ago. 2012-01-10 06:43 my guess is that its only possible while brcm endorces the thing by sponsoring development and part cost 2012-01-10 06:44 eventually, they'll have to pay for their bom. and then the price inflates. 2012-01-10 06:45 and the tcos is much higher anyway, given that they're targetting pc-less households 2012-01-10 06:45 i.e., i don' think keyboards and mice are free in the uk 2012-01-10 06:46 they're of course cheap. but still, they have some transaction cost 2012-01-10 06:48 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 06:50 anyway, time for a nap before the evil day star scorches the land 2012-01-10 06:55 * DocScrutinizer waves and heads out for a slaves' day of work 2012-01-10 06:56 there it is.... (daystar) 2012-01-10 06:58 it hides behind the clouds 2012-01-10 07:07 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 07:20 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 07:21 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@vulture-nat-37.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 07:29 jluis|work [jluis|work!~jpddb@83.247.136.72] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 07:37 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 07:50 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 07:58 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~zhai@1.202.15.210] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 08:11 stefan_schmidt [stefan_schmidt!~stefan@guest232.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 08:32 Textmode [Textmode!~boneidle@adsl-syd-2-209.ozonline.com.au] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 08:47 Ayla [Ayla!~paul@28.95.13.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 08:58 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 09:44 tradej [tradej!tradej@nat/redhat/x-owruejqsnqcpzmot] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 09:47 Jay7 [Jay7!jay@2.94.64.108] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 09:54 jivs [jivs!~jivs@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 10:53 antoniodariush [antoniodariush!~antonioda@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 12:10 rejon [rejon!~rejon@li382-141.members.linode.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 12:31 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@114.254.74.93] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 12:54 wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@p5B0ABD37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 13:12 xiangfu [xiangfu!~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 13:27 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@mx2.promwad.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 13:37 guys, gmenu2x is broken here 2012-01-10 13:38 the ./configure builds a test program to check if SDL has been installed, but that code loads the SDL.h header using quotes 2012-01-10 13:38 ie. #include "SDL.h" 2012-01-10 13:38 shouldn't it be #include instead? 2012-01-10 13:39 as a result the ./configure complains that SDL has not been installed 2012-01-10 13:41 SDL should be located using sdl-config, which will return a -I flag for the include path 2012-01-10 13:41 so both "SDL.h" and should work 2012-01-10 13:41 AFAIK, "SDL.h" means it's on the same directory 2012-01-10 13:42 and means it's on one of the header paths 2012-01-10 13:42 both "" and <> are looked for in the include paths, but the priority is different 2012-01-10 13:43 or maybe not the priority but whether system or current dir is checked as well 2012-01-10 13:44 sdl-config should be picked from the toolchain though, not sure if configure does that by default 2012-01-10 13:44 it does 2012-01-10 13:44 ./configure --host=mipsel-linux --enable-platform=dingux --with-sdl-prefix=/opt/opendingux-toolchain/usr 2012-01-10 13:45 I'm specifying the SDL location explicitly there 2012-01-10 13:46 ok, I found the problem 2012-01-10 13:46 this works: 2012-01-10 13:46 ./configure --host=mipsel-linux --enable-platform=dingux 2012-01-10 13:46 this does not: 2012-01-10 13:46 ./configure --host=mipsel-linux-uclibc --enable-platform=dingux 2012-01-10 13:46 is the legacy toolchain in your $PATH as well 2012-01-10 13:46 ? 2012-01-10 13:49 no 2012-01-10 13:49 the "legacy" toolchain is long time gone ;) 2012-01-10 13:49 paroneayea [paroneayea!~user@fsf/member/paroneayea] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 13:51 mth: I am modifying how the cursor moves, I would like your opinion about this 2012-01-10 13:52 currently, when you press Right the cursor will move up to the last column of the row, then wrap to the first column of the same row 2012-01-10 13:52 I propose that the cursor wraps to the first column of the next row 2012-01-10 13:54 I'm not sure that would be better 2012-01-10 13:54 why would someone use that feature rather than using the down button? 2012-01-10 13:55 correct, but then why should the cursor wrap at the first column when you press Right? 2012-01-10 13:56 if the cursor position is preserved after you launch something (is it?), you can use it to quickly go to the first column 2012-01-10 13:56 with either scheme you can do that, but it's more straightforward if it only changes the column and not the row 2012-01-10 13:57 it is saved yes, but I don't see why it'd be faster 2012-01-10 13:57 not faster; what is faster depends on where the target you're going towards is 2012-01-10 13:58 it's simpler 2012-01-10 13:58 I guess it depends on whether you see the apps as a list or as a grid 2012-01-10 13:58 for a list, switching to the next row on wrap makes more sense, for a grid staying on the same row makes more sense 2012-01-10 13:59 if an item is removed, the app are reordered though, so maybe it is more of a list actually 2012-01-10 14:40 valhalla [valhalla!~valhalla@81-174-23-109.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 14:40 paroneay` [paroneay`!~user@c-67-175-218-235.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 14:42 xiangfu [xiangfu!~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 14:42 wpwrak [wpwrak!~werner@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 14:59 B_Lizzard [B_Lizzard!~havoc@athedsl-425284.home.otenet.gr] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 16:00 mstevens [mstevens!~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 16:06 emeb [emeb!~ericb@ip72-223-81-94.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 16:26 paroneayea [paroneayea!~user@fsf/member/paroneayea] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 16:39 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 17:28 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@114.254.74.93] has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-01-10 18:01 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 18:02 urandom__ [urandom__!~user@ip-88-152-215-14.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 18:42 mr0101000 [mr0101000!~no@71-81-27-105.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 19:08 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 19:13 mr0101000 [mr0101000!~no@71-81-27-105.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 2012-01-10 19:32 Does 'iostat' show anything for you in the nanonote, about the nand? 2012-01-10 19:33 maybe I'd need some kernel options 2012-01-10 19:45 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@vulture-nat-37.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 20:13 pabs3 [pabs3!~pabs@d175-38-172-79.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 20:37 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@99-62-100-172.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 20:37 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 20:39 stefan_schmidt [stefan_schmidt!~stefan@p4FC77AC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 20:40 DocScrutinizer: how was surviving the day ? :) 2012-01-10 21:11 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@vulture2-nat-41.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 21:13 time consuming as usual 2012-01-10 21:14 at least I managed to set my first breakpoint in lauterbach to a chosen position 2012-01-10 21:14 so the rest of the day was spent with lavish celebration ? champagne, fireworks, ... 2012-01-10 21:14 next I probably have to learn ARM assembler, bot thumb and err whatever the other was 2012-01-10 21:15 both 2012-01-10 21:16 btw, i have a mystery for you: in M1, we use the WM9707 codec: http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/codecs/WM9707/ 2012-01-10 21:16 :nod: 2012-01-10 21:16 now, it has line out and "line level" out. wolfson make no mention what "line level" means and how it would differ from "line" 2012-01-10 21:17 they don't even list the "line level" in the parameters, only "line" 2012-01-10 21:17 errr 2012-01-10 21:17 also, i haven't found any other wolfson codec that would have something like that 2012-01-10 21:17 you're my last hope. does any of this ring any bells ? :) 2012-01-10 21:18 alas not really 2012-01-10 21:18 I could only think of "line level" being a line-out with a non-matched impedance 2012-01-10 21:19 a proper line-out should have ~1.5V @ 100Ohm 2012-01-10 21:20 I.E a 1.5V source with a 100R series max source impedance 2012-01-10 21:20 while a "line level" output might have a few kR source impedance 2012-01-10 21:21 hmm. if it's that high, then it's useless without specification 2012-01-10 21:21 fwiw, they define "line out" with a 10 kR load 2012-01-10 21:21 :nod: 2012-01-10 21:21 hm 2012-01-10 21:22 I'm failing to use xbboot 2012-01-10 21:22 10kR load is "normal" for line-in 2012-01-10 21:22 http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM9707.pdf 2012-01-10 21:22 page 5 2012-01-10 21:22 okay 2012-01-10 21:22 Error - set_addr() returned -110 2012-01-10 21:23 -110 is timeout 2012-01-10 21:24 mmh 2012-01-10 21:24 which means no response to a usb request 2012-01-10 21:24 Error - get_info() returned -71 2012-01-10 21:24 ? 2012-01-10 21:24 no idea 2012-01-10 21:24 but you can check errno.h 2012-01-10 21:25 ah it's errno? 2012-01-10 21:25 hmm. page 24 calls it "e optional stereo headphone out" 2012-01-10 21:26 viric: yes. 71 is EPROTO 2012-01-10 21:26 #define EPROTO 71 /* Protocol error */ 2012-01-10 21:26 aha 2012-01-10 21:26 I wrote 2012-01-10 21:26 # xbboot -u 0x80600000 vmlinux.bin 2012-01-10 21:26 it sid 2012-01-10 21:26 said 2012-01-10 21:27 Info - found XBurst boot device. 2012-01-10 21:27 set_addr 80002000h 2012-01-10 21:27 bulk_write successfully wrote 6088 bytes. 2012-01-10 21:27 start1 80002000h 2012-01-10 21:27 Error - get_info() returned -71 2012-01-10 21:27 so, the numbers don't match 2012-01-10 21:28 what a big address I wrote... 2012-01-10 21:28 could be the wrong firmware 2012-01-10 21:28 it has to load the first stage loader first 2012-01-10 21:28 i think 2012-01-10 21:29 hm 2012-01-10 21:29 ok 2012-01-10 21:29 or maybe something in your config is wrong 2012-01-10 21:29 which causes the jz4740 to crash 2012-01-10 21:29 well, the address is wrong 2012-01-10 21:29 wpwrak: I think it's an absolutely identical auxiliary stereo out 2012-01-10 21:29 where physically are the 32MB? 2012-01-10 21:30 mstevens [mstevens!~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 21:30 wpwrak: the line-out PGA is called "MASTER VOLUME" iigir 2012-01-10 21:31 (master) yeah 2012-01-10 21:32 so "line-level" might just mean that this is _not_ controlled by "MASTER LEVEL" 2012-01-10 21:32 i think the chip may be some sort of clone for the LM4550B. but the LM seems to have a real headphone amp while the wm doesn't seem to be entirely decided on what it has 2012-01-10 21:33 it seems to have just an independent pga 2012-01-10 21:33 (reg 0x02 vs. reg 0x04) 2012-01-10 21:33 yep 2012-01-10 21:33 (not the (typ) in () there) 2012-01-10 21:33 whatever that means 2012-01-10 21:34 hmm, where's that "(typ)" ? 2012-01-10 21:35 in chip block 2012-01-10 21:35 viric: 80002000h is inside the icache 2012-01-10 21:35 ah, and wolfson recomment 10 uF caps, which would be 1.6 Hz with 10 kOhm. we have 1 uF. does this look like something we ought to change ? (our audio isn't supposed to be super high quality) 2012-01-10 21:35 C25 to C29 2012-01-10 21:35 10μF 2012-01-10 21:35 Output AC coupling caps to remove VREF DC level from outputs. 2012-01-10 21:36 hmm, I'd not worry about 4.7uF. ! though... 2012-01-10 21:36 1 2012-01-10 21:37 maybe bearable 2012-01-10 21:37 indeed, the "typ" is weird. "this it _typically_ the address of the volume control register" ? ;-) 2012-01-10 21:37 kewl 2012-01-10 21:37 just 10uF is a "de facto standard" for ine-out 2012-01-10 21:39 I'm not sure though about how much of non-linear distortion a small capacitor may introduce 2012-01-10 21:39 and we have 1 uF blockers on input while wolfson recommend 470 nF. i guess that's nothing to worry about ? 2012-01-10 21:39 by offsetting the virtual 0-point for the amp output 2012-01-10 21:40 (amp output) hmm 2012-01-10 21:40 no, too large C on input should be OK 2012-01-10 21:41 well, nobody but me will notice any difference I'd guess 2012-01-10 21:42 ;-) 2012-01-10 21:42 there are still users out there that argue 1uF for headphones on GTA02 is absolutely OK 2012-01-10 21:42 now, one more mystery: the infamous "CD" input with its own DC-blocked ground. do you remember that critter ? 2012-01-10 21:43 yep, siure 2012-01-10 21:43 DC-decoupling ground feels odd 2012-01-10 21:44 if you had to pick an audio input for expansion, but you don't know what people will do with it, would you pick that "CD" thingy (with its odd ground) or rather just AUX, which goes to audio ground ? 2012-01-10 21:45 hard 2012-01-10 21:45 what purpose of the input? 2012-01-10 21:45 maybe that CD ground thing is meant to break ground loops ? not sure if it works that way, though 2012-01-10 21:45 wpuldn't help 2012-01-10 21:45 could break DC shorts 2012-01-10 21:46 but no 50Hz GND-loop hum 2012-01-10 21:46 (purpose) unknown. it's for expansion circuits. if someone wants to add something (i.e., with a expansion board), they can plug into this 2012-01-10 21:46 a differential input though could 2012-01-10 21:46 and you could route both minus-in of L and R to same GND level 2012-01-10 21:47 like on a EKG where all differential opamps have minus-in on one common electrode 2012-01-10 21:47 adam has found a rather enigmatic comment on that CD input: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_Layout_Criteria#Audio_Codec 2012-01-10 21:48 "This can improve the input SNR for a stereo source with a good common ground but precision resistors may be needed in any external attenuators to achieve the necessary balance between the two channels." 2012-01-10 21:48 i'm not entirely sure where between school physics and metaphysics this is located :) 2012-01-10 21:49 larsc: I don't know what means 'inside the icache' :) 2012-01-10 21:49 yeah, a bit enigmatic but supporting my prev comment 2012-01-10 21:49 (differential) so you're saying our "CD" thing may be this kind of differential input ? 2012-01-10 21:49 yep 2012-01-10 21:50 again, what purpose has the input? 2012-01-10 21:50 xbboot -u 80010000 vmlinux.bin this worked fine (the command), but I don't see the kernel booting :) 2012-01-10 21:50 viric: the CPUs instruction cache is mapped at 0x80000000 2012-01-10 21:50 it would go to an unpopulated header footprint 2012-01-10 21:50 larsc: I imagine I've to read a bit more then, to continue 2012-01-10 21:50 usecase 2012-01-10 21:50 the question is if that should be CD* or AUX* 2012-01-10 21:51 DIY expansion 2012-01-10 21:51 that's no usecase 2012-01-10 21:51 ;-) 2012-01-10 21:51 the one doing the DIY defines the specific use case :) 2012-01-10 21:51 viric: the bootrom is loaded at 0x80000000 which is used to load the first stage loader to 0x80002000, which will initialize the peripherals and then load the actuall payload 2012-01-10 21:52 the kernel in your ase 2012-01-10 21:52 well then define it as low-fi inmput and you're fine 2012-01-10 21:52 so, should we use the traditional AUX + AGND or the fancy CD + CDGND for this ? 2012-01-10 21:52 you should provision footprints for antiseriel Zeners 2012-01-10 21:53 larsc: but the kernel has its own start address... 2012-01-10 21:53 use CD 2012-01-10 21:53 viric: yes 2012-01-10 21:53 larsc: isn't it... 0xffffffff8031d150 ? 2012-01-10 21:53 perfect 2012-01-10 21:53 0x80010000 2012-01-10 21:53 ah ok 2012-01-10 21:53 floating GND is a good thing for a genral purpose lo-fi input 2012-01-10 21:53 and what is the kernel "entry point"? 2012-01-10 21:53 anything relevant? 2012-01-10 21:54 think about clipping input voltage at ~4V 2012-01-10 21:54 the first instruction to be executed 2012-01-10 21:54 clamp diodes to VDD, VSS after C 2012-01-10 21:54 after all 3 2012-01-10 21:54 viric: do you load a compressed kernel? 2012-01-10 21:54 no 2012-01-10 21:55 plus a series R ~1k 2012-01-10 21:55 series to C 2012-01-10 21:55 naw, no clamps. let's keep this simple. we don't even know if this goes outside the box. 2012-01-10 21:56 hey, I said FOOTPRINTS 2012-01-10 21:57 quite obviously you also want some minimalistic RF blocking 2012-01-10 21:57 = 47pF to GND, after the series 1kR 2012-01-10 21:57 i'd just keep the rabble we currently have 2012-01-10 21:57 larsc: that'd be 'vmlinuz', no? 2012-01-10 21:57 nothing RF-ish there, though 2012-01-10 21:58 RF is *everywhere* 2012-01-10 21:58 i mean rf-aware cicuitry 2012-01-10 21:58 and that's one of the disadvantages of such a electronically balanced input 2012-01-10 21:59 it *is* RF sensitive 2012-01-10 21:59 and NO GND to shield the RF away 2012-01-10 21:59 viric: yes. but the compressed kernel needs a different load address 2012-01-10 21:59 oddly enough, wolfson themselves don't suggest any rf caps either. just dc block. 2012-01-10 21:59 maybe there's an internal low-pass ? 2012-01-10 21:59 larsc: ok. No, I'm using vmlinux.bin 2012-01-10 21:59 so I try: 2012-01-10 22:00 xbboot -u 80010000 vmlinux.bin 2012-01-10 22:00 Then: 2012-01-10 22:00 wolfson doesn't suggest a lot of things, as they are not specific for their circuit. That'S common best practice 2012-01-10 22:00 xbboot start2 80010000 2012-01-10 22:00 wolfson also doesn't suggest to place receptacle there 2012-01-10 22:00 ah wait 2012-01-10 22:00 it takes that as decimal 2012-01-10 22:00 :) 2012-01-10 22:01 if that's 7mm copper trace to next chip's output, you'd obviously not need any RF measures 2012-01-10 22:01 nor any clamp diaodes or a series R 2012-01-10 22:01 do you remember the circuit ? http://milkymist.org/mmone/rc3_schematics.pdf 2012-01-10 22:02 yes, I remember it 2012-01-10 22:02 I'm DocScrutinizer 2012-01-10 22:02 the input path, from source: 6.8 kOhm series, the 6.8 kOhm to ground, then DC block, and finally the codec 2012-01-10 22:02 not sure about RC3 though 2012-01-10 22:02 larsc: I'd say I want to upload the kernel to 0x80010000, and execute at the entry point. 2012-01-10 22:03 But the xbboot "-u" means upload at X, and execute at X 2012-01-10 22:03 the entry point should be 0x80010000, 2012-01-10 22:03 now ... do we actually need those "pull downs" ? 2012-01-10 22:03 hm 2012-01-10 22:03 larsc: that's not the entry point in case of 'mkimage' 2012-01-10 22:04 hm 2012-01-10 22:04 or would the footprints be better used for your 47 pF caps ? 2012-01-10 22:04 yeah!!!! and the 6k8 in GND are WRONG 2012-01-10 22:04 *grin* 2012-01-10 22:05 does that apply to LINEIN{L,R} as well ? 2012-01-10 22:05 you can't do such a thing to a stereo bal-in, with common GND 2012-01-10 22:05 larsc: KERNEL_ENTRY is the address of the 'kernel_entry' symbol 2012-01-10 22:05 viric: hm, yes 2012-01-10 22:06 80316830 T kernel_entry 2012-01-10 22:06 ah yes, combined with the floating ground, it looks even more funny :) 2012-01-10 22:06 (says nm) 2012-01-10 22:06 for the compressed kernel load and start address are the same 2012-01-10 22:06 bo, line-in has clean direct GND 2012-01-10 22:06 btw, you're still joerg@openmoko.org ? 2012-01-10 22:06 larsc: ah ok. Maybe I need a loader for xbboot '-u' to work 2012-01-10 22:06 I'll go with the compressed 2012-01-10 22:06 s/bo/no/ 2012-01-10 22:06 DocScrutinizer meant: "no, line-in has clean direct GND" 2012-01-10 22:06 sure 2012-01-10 22:07 larsc: it fails to build, btw 2012-01-10 22:07 viric: 0x80600000 is the address 2012-01-10 22:07 (vmlinuz) 2012-01-10 22:07 arch/mips/boot/compressed/decompress.c:105:2: error: implicit declaration of function ‘decompress’ 2012-01-10 22:07 okay, so no pull-downs on CD* but keep them on LINEIN* 2012-01-10 22:07 ah I need kernel gzip.. 2012-01-10 22:07 replace the pulldowns by 47pF 2012-01-10 22:08 is there a problem with having 6k8 instead of the 1k you suggested ? 2012-01-10 22:08 viric: or another compresor 2012-01-10 22:08 ok 2012-01-10 22:08 decompressor 2012-01-10 22:08 I can't find the option :) 2012-01-10 22:08 all of them 2012-01-10 22:08 'F8' in nconfig says it's in General setup... 2012-01-10 22:09 err, not on the outputs though 2012-01-10 22:09 viric: 'Kernel compression (...)' or something like it 2012-01-10 22:09 "Kernel compressino choice".... 2012-01-10 22:09 I may be blind :) 2012-01-10 22:10 ah it's disabled 2012-01-10 22:10 I could make nconfig "show all options" 2012-01-10 22:10 it shows 'XXX' 2012-01-10 22:10 depends on HAVE_KERNEL_GZIP... 2012-01-10 22:11 what a party :) 2012-01-10 22:11 yeah, only on input. don't want to "pop" on output :) 2012-01-10 22:11 hm, which kernel do you use? 2012-01-10 22:11 HAH, on outputs you *got* 220pF 2012-01-10 22:11 no idea what for 2012-01-10 22:12 larsc: jz-3.2 2012-01-10 22:12 regarding the differential CD ground, if the source also decides to decouple GND, we would have a problem, right ? is this something that's like to happen ? 2012-01-10 22:12 no 2012-01-10 22:13 (output 220 pF) probably since it worked during the last zombie attack, or whatever ;-) 2012-01-10 22:13 your outputs make nice inputs ;-P 2012-01-10 22:13 larsc: I can't find the magic combination :) 2012-01-10 22:13 that's where cargo cult meets voodoo meets ancient rituals meets paranoia ;-) 2012-01-10 22:14 viric: there is a patch _somewhere_ 2012-01-10 22:14 larsc: oh? a patch for what? 2012-01-10 22:14 except for the 10 k pull-downs, right ? :) 2012-01-10 22:14 for enabling the option 2012-01-10 22:14 :D 2012-01-10 22:14 mth: pin 2012-01-10 22:14 g 2012-01-10 22:16 what are you trying to achieve? 2012-01-10 22:16 wpwrak: L1 looks ODD 2012-01-10 22:16 with non-differential use of CD*, we wouldn't know a difference, right ? 2012-01-10 22:16 L1 is "0" :) 2012-01-10 22:16 Ayla: boot a kernel with xbboot 2012-01-10 22:17 viric: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/commit/9a83f481a49cf9337a0aaed749c631572dddb950/ you need the first three hunks 2012-01-10 22:17 lol zombie attack 2012-01-10 22:17 or, depending on where from you look at it, C30 is incorrectly placed 2012-01-10 22:17 larsc: why isn't that in jz-3.2? 2012-01-10 22:17 larsc: I can try any other branch that works 2012-01-10 22:17 we have a number of dead indictors. i think this is just one more of them. 2012-01-10 22:18 what's the difference with jzboot? 2012-01-10 22:18 what is jzboot? 2012-01-10 22:18 :) 2012-01-10 22:18 viric: nah, you need to manually port them 2012-01-10 22:18 gona TV&sleep 2012-01-10 22:18 o/ 2012-01-10 22:18 viric: the better xbboot 2012-01-10 22:18 it's the digital VDD anyway. that's supposed to be able the handle a bit of noise 2012-01-10 22:18 viric: written by whitequark 2012-01-10 22:19 DocScrutinizer: thanks a lot for helping to puzzle this out ! 2012-01-10 22:19 wpwrak: also supposed to have quite some surges 2012-01-10 22:19 larsc: is there any reason for that patch not to be in jz-3.2? 2012-01-10 22:19 that'S why you don't wanna have inductors without buffer C on digital VDD 2012-01-10 22:19 yw 2012-01-10 22:20 n8 2012-01-10 22:20 viric: nobody ported it 2012-01-10 22:20 viric: it is from the jz4760 branch 2012-01-10 22:20 larsc: Message:stash ? :) 2012-01-10 22:21 yes, and it was not even supposed to be pushed onto the servers 2012-01-10 22:21 aah. 2012-01-10 22:21 that particular commit, just a bunch of random changes 2012-01-10 22:21 so I should branch from jz-3.2, and have that in my branch 2012-01-10 22:22 ah, the 6k8 series on input. should they be smaller ? or is 6k8 acceptable ? 2012-01-10 22:22 larsc: (maybe I ask basic questions... I've no idea about how do you work :) 2012-01-10 22:23 is OK 2012-01-10 22:23 sounds fine 2012-01-10 22:23 I'd have picked 10k though 2012-01-10 22:23 error: could not apply 9a83f48... stash 2012-01-10 22:23 :) 2012-01-10 22:24 yes 2012-01-10 22:24 you need to manually apply the first three hunks with some fuzz 2012-01-10 22:25 select SYS_SUPPORTS_ZBOOT_UART16550 needs to go in arch/mips/Kconfig under MACH_JZ4740 2012-01-10 22:25 the second hunk is fine as it is 2012-01-10 22:25 hm 2012-01-10 22:25 ok. I'll do that slowly 2012-01-10 22:25 and the third one should use CONFIG_MACH_JZ4740 instead of CONFIG_MACH_JZ4760 2012-01-10 22:26 and 0xB0030000 instead of 0xB0031000 2012-01-10 22:31 shouldn't those be commited? 2012-01-10 22:34 yes. I'll complain to the owner. 2012-01-10 22:34 :) 2012-01-10 22:34 ok, got vmlinuz 2012-01-10 22:35 larsc: so... vmlinuz built. I run 2012-01-10 22:35 # xbboot -u 0x80600000 vmlinuz 2012-01-10 22:35 and it does not boot :) 2012-01-10 22:36 and you don't have a serial right? 2012-01-10 22:37 hm could have. 2012-01-10 22:37 would it help? 2012-01-10 22:37 I've the console to tty0... 2012-01-10 22:37 the lcd does not switch on 2012-01-10 22:38 the decompressor should print some mesages to the serial console 2012-01-10 22:39 oh 2012-01-10 22:39 what serial console? 2012-01-10 22:39 the hw serial console 2012-01-10 22:40 aren't there two? :) 2012-01-10 22:40 ttyS0 and ttyS1 2012-01-10 22:41 yes, but only one is accessible 2012-01-10 22:41 accessible by who or what? 2012-01-10 22:41 I've that of the battery. 2012-01-10 22:42 i'm talking about this one http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Serial_console 2012-01-10 22:42 ah ok. yes yes 2012-01-10 22:43 57600... 2012-01-10 22:44 larsc: nothing 2012-01-10 22:45 wpwrak: I'm looking at the 'solder mask clearance setting ignore' but again 2012-01-10 22:45 bug 2012-01-10 22:45 it's messy even in the GUI 2012-01-10 22:46 the solder mask and paste clearance seem to be saved in the .pro, not the .brd file 2012-01-10 22:46 viric: i think you need to build with DEBUG_ZBOOT 2012-01-10 22:46 the menu has two different Save options (in HEAD) 2012-01-10 22:46 =y 2012-01-10 22:46 I disabled that when asked... 2012-01-10 22:46 Preferences -> Dimensions -> Save 2012-01-10 22:46 and Preferences -> Save Preferences 2012-01-10 22:46 both seem to do the same thing (not sure though) 2012-01-10 22:47 ok, let me try again 2012-01-10 22:47 in my quick tests, the solder mask clearance is indeed saved in the .pro, but the solder paste clearance is lost, even when saving manually 2012-01-10 22:47 viric: and vmlinuz.bin 2012-01-10 22:47 not vmlinuz sorry 2012-01-10 22:47 ah oh 2012-01-10 22:48 vmlinuz is the elf binary, i think 2012-01-10 22:48 the values are only reloaded next time if you open the .brd file via the kicad binary and .pro. if you open via pcbnew directly pointing to the .brd file, even settings saved in the .pro are not picked up, unless you manually 'load' the preferences 2012-01-10 22:48 so there are bugs and inconsistencies already in the GUI 2012-01-10 22:48 larsc: it's the gzipped vmlinux.bin IIRC 2012-01-10 22:49 would it help if we made this a command line option? 2012-01-10 22:49 I don't remember seeing vmlinuz.bin 2012-01-10 22:49 vmlinux is elf sure... 2012-01-10 22:49 so we would just pass the solder mask and paste clearance in (whichever you need) 2012-01-10 22:49 anyway once it works, if you need a bootloader, you could use ubiboot :D 2012-01-10 22:49 that won't help if you want them to be loaded from the .pro though 2012-01-10 22:49 viric: make vmlinuz.bin 2012-01-10 22:50 ah, can do 2012-01-10 22:50 boots! 2012-01-10 22:50 wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@p5B0ABD37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-10 22:50 party! 2012-01-10 22:50 :D 2012-01-10 22:50 can't open root... but well... that next :) 2012-01-10 22:51 danke schun 2012-01-10 22:52 lost solder paste clearance sound like un-fun 2012-01-10 22:52 I am not 100% sure, there are too many inconsistencies 2012-01-10 22:52 one would need to unwind this one by one 2012-01-10 22:52 my questions: 2012-01-10 22:52 which one of 1) solder mask clearance 2) solder paste clearance 3) solder mask ratio clearance do you actually need? 2012-01-10 22:53 do you need those values to come from the .pro file (the only place they are stored, and it seems not even all of them), or is it enough to pass them in over the command line? 2012-01-10 22:56 let's see ... 2012-01-10 22:57 atben.brd: Pad2MaskClearance, Pad2PasteClearance, and apparently ZOptions ties into this as well. then atben.pro VEgarde 2012-01-10 22:57 I can't get the serial port working though... 2012-01-10 22:57 (ben-wpan commit daaac58f885cdc017bad91fa98c36dba37c3c26a) 2012-01-10 22:58 hm I connected for a while TX/GND inversed 2012-01-10 22:58 can that break the serial port? 2012-01-10 22:58 they're part of the design, so they should be in the file 2012-01-10 22:58 hmm, but where do Pad2MaskClearance and Pad2PasteClearance in the .brd file come from in the GUI? 2012-01-10 22:59 viric: not really 2012-01-10 22:59 if I open pcbnew, and change the values in Preferences -> Dimensions -> Pads Mask Clearance, those values in the .brd file are not affected 2012-01-10 22:59 maybe ask on the list ? :) 2012-01-10 22:59 i think there are several places where you can and have to save preferences 2012-01-10 22:59 viric: the serial port is a mystery for tomorrow night ;) 2012-01-10 22:59 :) yes 2012-01-10 22:59 at least for me 2012-01-10 23:00 me too. 2012-01-10 23:00 thank you! 2012-01-10 23:00 midnight, lars is becoming civilized 2012-01-10 23:00 the system gets you! 2012-01-10 23:00 wolfspraul: well, i have to be at the office at 8am 2012-01-10 23:00 oh I can imagine 2012-01-10 23:00 i don't remember how the clearances (radio vs. absolute) get mixed in the end. i remember having to track it down in the sources before i could figure out how to do it in the gui, though. 2012-01-10 23:00 I miraculously always had the freedom to do whatever I wanted 2012-01-10 23:01 show up at lunch time :-) 2012-01-10 23:01 but infantilization rules 2012-01-10 23:01 you get a free soda (yuhuuuu), but you have to be there at 9am sharp... 2012-01-10 23:02 nothing much you can do, hope you survive :-) 2012-01-10 23:02 so far nobody has complained when i showed up 9:30, but i'm trying to not making it the norm 2012-01-10 23:02 what's your job? 2012-01-10 23:03 linux :) 2012-01-10 23:03 i remember getting funny looks when leaving at 8 am :) 2012-01-10 23:04 larsc: you're paid to work on Linux? 2012-01-10 23:04 wpwrak: ok here's what I do: I will leave a comment in TODO, and try to get this committed first 2012-01-10 23:04 there are still many details, your patches need to be up-leveled as well, etc. 2012-01-10 23:04 I just wait until the bug reports come in, then look at this again 2012-01-10 23:04 Ayla: yes! unbelievable isn't it? 2012-01-10 23:04 yes 2012-01-10 23:05 you take applicants? :D 2012-01-10 23:05 I just started myself a few month ago 2012-01-10 23:05 wolfspraul: sounds good. it's better to get feedback from upstream early on anyway. no point in working three years on the perfect patch set, just to have it summarily rejected 2012-01-10 23:06 oh of course 2012-01-10 23:06 I am just focused to get our stuff back in shape 2012-01-10 23:06 there's quite a number of little things in there 2012-01-10 23:06 that's the sort of job I want to have. When it'll be time for me to seek a 'real' job, I'll ask you some advices 2012-01-10 23:07 larsc: pong (reading backlog now) 2012-01-10 23:07 mth: problem solved 2012-01-10 23:09 Ayla: make sure to get your patches upstream. 2012-01-10 23:09 yep, I believe it helps 2012-01-10 23:10 wolfspraul: (little things) yeah, they have that tendency of piling up :) 2012-01-10 23:10 I also plan to do the GSoC 2012-01-10 23:11 there are a lot of people who apply for a linux job, but have actually no much of an idea how the upstream development process works 2012-01-10 23:13 is there anything to be merged into jz-.3.2 to simplify things for other people? 2012-01-10 23:14 I don't know if what viric is doing is standard or non-standard 2012-01-10 23:16 the defconfig should contain CONFIG_SYS_SUPPORTS_ZBOOT_UART16550 2012-01-10 23:16 we actually have a patch forcing VMLINUZ_LOAD_ADDRESS:=0x80600000 already for OpenDingux 2012-01-10 23:16 I've had that issue when dealing with ubiboot 2012-01-10 23:16 I regenerate the defconfig every kernel release, so if the flag isn't there, it is because none of the Kconfigs set it 2012-01-10 23:17 SYS_SUPPORT flags are not set by the user afaik 2012-01-10 23:17 AFAIK it requires a change on arch/mips/boot/compressed/uart-16550.c too 2012-01-10 23:18 otherwise the PORT() macro is not defined 2012-01-10 23:18 viric: can you send the patch to the mailinglist? 2012-01-10 23:19 larsc: (inexperienced applicants) so you're helping out in HR now ? ;-) 2012-01-10 23:21 wpwrak: just something i've heard 2012-01-10 23:28 but i guess it always depends for kind of position you are hiring someone 2012-01-10 23:29 [commit] Wolfgang Spraul: uplevel cmdline patches (entire set won't build right now) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/a277779 2012-01-10 23:29 wpwrak: alright, first step. do you actually want to move to kicad head? 2012-01-10 23:29 if so I need to go through your patches as well 2012-01-10 23:30 larsc: yeah, there's probably a lot of demand for upstream-agnostic developers ... 2012-01-10 23:30 moving to kicad head would be great 2012-01-10 23:30 I took the liberty to break backward compatibility in the cmdline options 2012-01-10 23:30 in favor of staying close to the GUI 2012-01-10 23:33 here's what it looks like now http://pastebin.com/4xucpRLa 2012-01-10 23:33 nice ! a test script 2012-01-10 23:33 a very basic one, just for myself 2012-01-10 23:33 I type fast, but don't like to repeat 2012-01-10 23:33 hehe :) 2012-01-10 23:34 the test script just calls the major options one by one, and lists the output files 2012-01-10 23:34 no fancy checks with the generated files 2012-01-10 23:35 can you look over the pastebin - let me know if you spot anything wrong 2012-01-10 23:35 so I will work on the rest of the set now 2012-01-10 23:36 why cryptic abbreviations like --plot-gb-ex-pcb-edge ? 2012-01-10 23:36 on one hand I try to stay close to the text in the GUI 2012-01-10 23:36 on the other hand I don't want the option to be too long to --help still looks good 2012-01-10 23:37 there's some space with that one, we can make it longer 2012-01-10 23:37 gb-exclude-edges ? 2012-01-10 23:38 --plot-gb-exclude-edges 2012-01-10 23:38 s/gb/gerber/ :) 2012-01-10 23:38 wpwrak meant: "why cryptic abbreviations like --plot-gerber-ex-pcb-edge ?" 2012-01-10 23:38 grr 2012-01-10 23:38 :-) 2012-01-10 23:38 gets too long, --help won't look good 2012-01-10 23:39 you can put the option and the beginning of the description on separate lines 2012-01-10 23:39 --plot-gerber-noedges? 2012-01-10 23:39 I try to follow the text and structure of the GUI 2012-01-10 23:39 --very-very-long-option=with-parameters,even-a-list-of-them 2012-01-10 23:39 \tthis does absolutely nothing 2012-01-10 23:39 the GUI is our baseline I believe 2012-01-10 23:40 \t(default: enabled) 2012-01-10 23:40 or such 2012-01-10 23:40 using the same terminology as the GUI is good 2012-01-10 23:40 I don't have that much room to influence how --help looks like because this is the wx framework system 2012-01-10 23:40 too easy to make a confusing mess otherwise 2012-01-10 23:40 oh, i see 2012-01-10 23:40 let me see what looks good :-) 2012-01-10 23:41 drop the "plot-" prefix ? 2012-01-10 23:41 I actually can look at --help now, before was just a mountain of characters 2012-01-10 23:41 ;-) 2012-01-10 23:41 yes we could drop plot- 2012-01-10 23:41 we risk an overlap with another dialog then, but so what 2012-01-10 23:41 we can wait until we have such a conflict 2012-01-10 23:41 namespaces can never be perfect... 2012-01-10 23:43 --plot-gerber-exclude-edge and --plot-gerber-aux-origin still looks good 2012-01-10 23:43 should we remove all plot- ? 2012-01-10 23:44 actuall the aux-origin exists in the drill and plot dialogs 2012-01-10 23:44 so we have --drill-origin-aux and --plot-gerber-aux-origin right now 2012-01-10 23:44 can they be merged ? 2012-01-10 23:44 they could, but that's what I want to avod 2012-01-10 23:44 avoid 2012-01-10 23:44 two different dialogs 2012-01-10 23:44 :) 2012-01-10 23:44 let's map the dialogs 2012-01-10 23:45 I am certain the dialogs will change more 2012-01-10 23:45 options are moving around, dialogs get merged, etc. 2012-01-10 23:45 so there are only 2 paths 2012-01-10 23:45 one is that the cmdline options completely have their own design 2012-01-10 23:45 given that we only offer 5% of what's available now I don't think that's a good idea at all 2012-01-10 23:45 --plot-exclude-pcb-edge exclude PCB edge (Gerber only) 2012-01-10 23:46 or the second one is to follow the GUI, even if that means some redundancy and changes/breaks in the cmdline options 2012-01-10 23:46 --plot-aux-origin Use aux axis as origin (default: abs; Gerber only) 2012-01-10 23:46 anything in between will be a total mess 2012-01-10 23:47 thanks to the wx command line system, I cannot repeat options in the --help output 2012-01-10 23:47 -drill-aux-origin Use aux axis as origin (def: abs) 2012-01-10 23:47 I think I cannot 2012-01-10 23:47 yes aux-origin, better 2012-01-10 23:47 (use aux-origin or origin-aux but better don't mix) 2012-01-10 23:47 aux-origin 2012-01-10 23:48 (wx) the joy of overbearing frameworks :) 2012-01-10 23:49 pcbnew --help http://pastebin.com/aiSAb6ZC 2012-01-10 23:50 I think this is ok for now 2012-01-10 23:50 ah, we can probably drop the "ERC pin exceptions" patches. that doesn't quite work anyway and it's incompatible with the kicad belief system 2012-01-10 23:51 yes, looks good 2012-01-10 23:51 then there is only streamline-erc.patch left 2012-01-10 23:52 two are about aux-origin for DXF (will do that) 2012-01-10 23:52 and two are about the erc exceptions you want to drop 2012-01-10 23:52 erc-exceptions.patch and fix-pinedit-collision.patch 2012-01-10 23:52 correct? 2012-01-10 23:52 no, i want to keep fix-pinedit-collision.patch (if it's still needed) 2012-01-10 23:53 ok 2012-01-10 23:53 so both fix-pinedit-collisions and streamline-erc 2012-01-10 23:53 streamline-erc.patch is merely cleanup. not needed by us if there's no erc-exceptions.patch 2012-01-10 23:54 ok. then only fix-pinedit-collisions (plus DXF aux origin) 2012-01-10 23:56 yup 2012-01-10 23:56 these two are hopefully not too messy 2012-01-10 23:57 should not. OK I hope to get it all to build tomorrow then 2012-01-10 23:57 do you want installable packages or do you rather build from source anyway? 2012-01-10 23:58 there will definitely be bugs in the cmdline patches, it was quite a lot of lifting around and *lots* of changes in the KiCad sources 2012-01-10 23:58 i build from source 2012-01-10 23:58 ok 2012-01-10 23:58 then I will ask xiangfu to upstream the whole thing 2012-01-10 23:59 add it to his nearly infinite (tm) todo list 2012-01-10 23:59 I'm adding about 1-2 items / day to that list :-) 2012-01-10 23:59 luckily xiangfu ignores most of it