2012-01-09 00:25 kyak [kyak!~kyak@unaffiliated/kyak] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 00:49 cladamw [cladamw!~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 01:38 erikkugel [erikkugel!~erik@206.248.184.96] has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-01-09 01:39 larsc [larsc!~lars@eisbaer.ursus-maritimus.org] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 01:47 larsc [larsc!~lars@eisbaer.ursus-maritimus.org] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 01:56 larsc [larsc!~lars@eisbaer.ursus-maritimus.org] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 02:25 rejon [rejon!~rejon@li382-141.members.linode.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 02:38 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~orsonzhai@1.202.15.210] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 02:44 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@125.33.177.246] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 03:00 xiangfu [xiangfu!~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 04:00 cyclicflux [cyclicflux!~cyclicflu@c-69-250-186-232.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 05:53 skynet2000 [skynet2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:01 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~orsonzhai@1.202.15.210] has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-01-09 06:06 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~zhai@1.202.15.210] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:14 cladamw [cladamw!~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:22 DocScrutinizer [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:31 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:47 kristoffer [kristoffer!~kristoffe@c-e9d8e555.010-30-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:49 valhalla [valhalla!~valhalla@81-174-23-109.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:49 paroneayea [paroneayea!~user@fsf/member/paroneayea] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 06:55 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 07:05 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 07:15 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 07:23 the wiki is a big presentation card of the nanonote. :) 2012-01-09 07:38 mstevens [mstevens!~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 07:43 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@vulture-nat-37.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 07:50 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 07:50 pabs3 [pabs3!~pabs@d122-109-114-89.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 07:57 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 08:27 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 08:37 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 08:44 mirko [mirko!~mirko@simulachron-81.in-berlin.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 08:52 mirko [mirko!~mirko@simulachron-81.in-berlin.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 08:53 stefan_schmidt [stefan_schmidt!~stefan@guest232.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 09:08 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 09:10 rejon [rejon!~rejon@li382-141.members.linode.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 09:23 Ayla [Ayla!~paul@9.95.112.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 09:47 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 09:47 Ayla [Ayla!~paul@87.169.26.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 09:51 orsonzhai [orsonzhai!~zhai@1.202.15.210] has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-01-09 10:32 kuribas [kuribas!~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 10:34 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 10:52 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 10:57 Gerard Braad — 吉拉德: @jukkaeklund @Harkison well... this is the advantage the Roku and AI have, but boxes can be produced easily. @qihardware has experience ( 156328564399144960@gbraad - 13s ago via web ) 2012-01-09 11:13 Ayla [Ayla!~paul@11.241.112.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 11:20 antoniodariush [antoniodariush!~antonioda@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 11:27 jivs [jivs!~jivs@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 11:37 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@mx2.promwad.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 11:43 Ayla [Ayla!~paul@28.95.13.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 11:53 cladamw [cladamw!~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 12:10 any network experts here? 2012-01-09 12:11 lots, but at lunch time 2012-01-09 12:33 ok, fixed 2012-01-09 12:54 wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@p5B0AAF29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 13:04 pabspabspabs [pabspabspabs!~pabs@d175-38-172-79.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 13:38 mstevens [mstevens!~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 13:53 urandom__ [urandom__!~user@ip-88-152-216-74.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 14:10 tradej [tradej!tradej@nat/redhat/x-dkgqbqgtrpddhaxj] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 14:10 Textmode [Textmode!~boneidle@adsl-syd-2-209.ozonline.com.au] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 14:11 hi guys! 2012-01-09 14:12 i have been working for some time on fedora and came to find this whole open-source hardware thing pretty interesting. does any of you know how to get ben nanonote in the czech republic (amazon doesn't ship it directly and i don't really want to use a middleman) 2012-01-09 14:16 tradej: I think tuxbrain sells to the whole europe 2012-01-09 14:16 https://www.tuxbrain.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=99&osCsid=16r2eb57u3n11gr5ictt19d3o4 for example 2012-01-09 14:19 viric: oh, thank you, i'll check it out 2012-01-09 14:21 tradej: yes, tuxbrain, definitely 2012-01-09 14:21 what part of open-source hardware interests you? 2012-01-09 14:22 if you are curious, I can also recommend following the Qi planet at http://en.qi-hardware.com/planet 2012-01-09 14:23 wolfspraul: cool. ad interest: well, any of it. lately i read that r. stallman uses a lemote, and was interested what else is possible 2012-01-09 14:23 if you follow that for a few weeks or so, you will get a good overview of interesting open hardware projects 2012-01-09 14:23 tradej: I think the european distributor for that is dutch 2012-01-09 14:23 tradej: http://www.tekmote.nl/ 2012-01-09 14:24 ok yes, the Ben NanoNote is definitely a very unique pocket computer 2012-01-09 14:24 tradej: kristianpaul has a yeelong, and mstevens and me have fuloong 2012-01-09 14:24 open hardware is a big field 2012-01-09 14:24 so there are many specializations 2012-01-09 14:24 the Ben NanoNote aims to be a polished end-user product yet at the same time only use high-quality free software 2012-01-09 14:25 yeelong looks really nice, but is quite pricey simply as a gadget, nanonote is more like what i'm looking for 2012-01-09 14:27 viric: do you by any chance know what OS kristianpaul and mstevens are running on their machines? 2012-01-09 14:29 they use debians 2012-01-09 14:29 But me not ):) 2012-01-09 14:30 oh, i didn't catch you have it as well 2012-01-09 14:30 what are you running? 2012-01-09 14:30 I run nixos 2012-01-09 14:30 I also don't run openwrt on the nanonote. I run nanonixos 2012-01-09 14:33 viric: hmm, nixos looks interesting 2012-01-09 14:33 of course 2012-01-09 14:48 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@111.193.14.220] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 14:50 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@111.193.14.220] has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-01-09 14:51 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@111.193.14.220] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 14:51 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@111.193.14.220] has quit [#qi-hardware] 2012-01-09 14:51 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@111.193.14.220] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 15:04 stefan_schmidt [stefan_schmidt!~stefan@guest232.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 15:17 larsc: any idea about perf not building, then? 2012-01-09 15:57 viric: what nanonixos can offer us nanonote owners? :) 2012-01-09 15:57 orson_zhai [orson_zhai!~orson@111.193.14.220] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 15:58 wiki have plenty information about nanonote i think, well, aplication list could be more descriptive .. 2012-01-09 15:59 tradej: yes debian 2012-01-09 16:00 wanted to try fedora 16 but my other laptop bios wasnot happy with :/ 2012-01-09 16:00 FEL is something i want to use 2012-01-09 16:03 i must said i regret i dint met nanonote before yeeloong, but in the sense of openess well i like it a lot just after milkymist 2012-01-09 16:03 :-) 2012-01-09 16:07 kristianpaul: the fedora 16 thing is related to your yeelong? 2012-01-09 16:13 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 16:22 emeb [emeb!~ericb@ip72-223-81-94.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 16:22 nope 2012-01-09 16:24 rejon [rejon!~rejon@li382-141.members.linode.com] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 16:33 kristianpaul: that's good. if i buy a yeelong i'd like to run fedora on it (i know we've got some support on MIPS) 2012-01-09 16:34 * C-Keen runs openbsd on his yeelong 2012-01-09 16:37 tradej [tradej!~tradej@cst-prg-14-0.cust.vodafone.cz] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 16:45 wpwrak: I want to reduce the kicad cmdline options a little to the ones we actually need or plan to use 2012-01-09 16:45 I'm trying to fix some pcbnew --plot errors right now 2012-01-09 16:46 do we need all 4 - hpgl, gerber, postscript, dxf when plotting from pcbnew? 2012-01-09 16:50 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 16:51 hpgl and dxf probably not 2012-01-09 16:51 ok, great. removing :-) 2012-01-09 16:51 they may be helpful somewhere in PCB production 2012-01-09 16:52 dxf for the edge? (for example) 2012-01-09 16:52 also I think I will change my approach of the cmdline patches. before I tried to cleanly separate from the dialog classes 2012-01-09 16:52 but there is too much logic in the dialog classes 2012-01-09 16:52 ah no. dxf is used as well 2012-01-09 16:52 so now I will drive the dialog classes instead, and patch/hack out actual GUI updates or popups 2012-01-09 16:53 it's hackier but more realistic and easier to maintain 2012-01-09 16:53 not by my scripts, but fabs may like it 2012-01-09 16:53 ok so just remove hpgl for now? 2012-01-09 16:53 I rather have fewer options and they are better supported and tested 2012-01-09 16:53 sounds very hackish. maybe float the idea on the list ? 2012-01-09 16:53 otherwise we have lots of options, but they mostly produce junk files. that's easy. 2012-01-09 16:53 well let me get it to work first, it's easy to change things 2012-01-09 16:54 it's not hackish, I'm just learning more about the KiCad sources over time 2012-01-09 16:54 better to drive the dialog classes... 2012-01-09 16:54 before I was copy/pasting out of them, but not good 2012-01-09 16:54 seems that dialog and underlying machinery aren't properly separated then. isn't that was OO is all about ? ;-)) 2012-01-09 16:54 s/was/what/ 2012-01-09 16:54 wpwrak meant: "seems that dialog and underlying machinery aren't properly separated then. isn't that what OO is all about ? ;-))" 2012-01-09 16:55 it's easier to have a global g_CmdLineMode, and then just skip the dialogs and automatically jump to a (virtual) press of OK. 2012-01-09 16:55 ;-)) 2012-01-09 16:55 well there is a lot of logic in the dialog classes 2012-01-09 16:55 especially about settings, where they come from and so forth 2012-01-09 16:55 keep in mind that there is another GUI framework underneath, the wx stuff 2012-01-09 16:55 so that's already a dialog abstraction 2012-01-09 16:56 kudkudyak [kudkudyak!~sun@94.72.160.99] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 16:56 maybe clean up the dialogs first ? dialog -> setup, dialog, processing ? 2012-01-09 16:56 the kicad dialog classes encode the logic needed to drive those dialogs 2012-01-09 16:56 phew 2012-01-09 16:56 that is relatively clean because of the underlying wx framework 2012-01-09 16:56 I just skip the ShowModal() and go straight to OnOK() :-) 2012-01-09 16:56 other than that I run through the hundreds sometimes more lines of code of the dialog class 2012-01-09 16:56 ah, if it's just a call, then it may not be so bad 2012-01-09 16:57 it's also easier to maintain and in the long run easier to support changes and enhancements to the dialogs 2012-01-09 16:57 because we are just 'driving' the dialog controls, from the command line 2012-01-09 16:57 anyway 2012-01-09 16:57 so I remove hpgl? 2012-01-09 16:58 do you need the "Force A4" setting when plotting Postscript in pcbnew? 2012-01-09 16:58 i haven't found any use of hpgl in the code 2012-01-09 16:58 you mean --plot=ps_a4 ? i use that 2012-01-09 16:59 oops. just removed :-) (will add it back in) 2012-01-09 16:59 I want to stay close to the dialogs, in the structure of the cmdline 2012-01-09 16:59 what do you think? 2012-01-09 16:59 for ps_a4, that means now it just became a checkbox in the ps tab 2012-01-09 17:00 dunno. as long as the dialogs stay close to themselves, that'll work 2012-01-09 17:00 if we follow that the cmdline syntax would change to --plot=ps --force-a4 2012-01-09 17:00 if not, we have more stability in the cmdline, but they diverge from the terminology and layout of the dialogs 2012-01-09 17:00 I rather go with kicad, unless we have a large cmdline user base (which we don't have today) 2012-01-09 17:02 you may be discussing this with just your entire user base ;-) 2012-01-09 17:02 yes 2012-01-09 17:02 world-class customer support, as always 2012-01-09 17:02 100% of customer needs addressed 2012-01-09 17:02 actually, seriously, that's the advantage of a smaller community :-) 2012-01-09 17:03 so we can switch to --plot=ps --force-a4 ? 2012-01-09 17:04 robably I would make it --ps-force-a4 2012-01-09 17:04 because the dialogs are clearly saying now which plot option the settings are for 2012-01-09 17:04 sounds better, yes. okay. i think i know where all my uses of pcbnew are. 2012-01-09 17:04 so --plot=ps --ps-force-a4 2012-01-09 17:05 (i currently always use pcbnew --plot=ps_a4) 2012-01-09 17:05 because in the old kicad dialogs, the list of formats was gerber/hpgl/dxf/ps/ps_a4 2012-01-09 17:05 so the cmdline options follow that 2012-01-09 17:05 ah :) 2012-01-09 17:05 but they moved the "Force A4 output" into the ps format now 2012-01-09 17:05 I think we shuold follow kicad 2012-01-09 17:06 even if that breaks cmdline compatibility 2012-01-09 17:16 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 17:21 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 17:34 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 18:13 viric: no idea. but it looks like some kernel userspace incompatibility 2012-01-09 18:14 stefan_schmidt [stefan_schmidt!~stefan@p4FF891A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 18:48 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@vulture-nat-37.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 19:27 wpwrak: in pcbnew plotting, there is an option fill-all-zones 2012-01-09 19:28 I cannot find a match in the dialog of kicad HEAD anymore 2012-01-09 19:28 maybe this is always enabled now? do we ever not set this? or ever set it? 2012-01-09 19:29 i use it. dunno if it's now always enabled. wouldn't be a bad idea if it was. 2012-01-09 19:30 yeah maybe it is 2012-01-09 19:32 or maybe never, argh 2012-01-09 19:32 ok I leave the option as-is for now 2012-01-09 19:38 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 20:01 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 20:18 larsc: hm ok 2012-01-09 20:18 larsc: I'd had thought perf had the same kernel interface as oprofile 2012-01-09 20:19 but looks like not 2012-01-09 20:20 but the api should at least be stable 2012-01-09 20:22 have you tried with 3.2? 2012-01-09 20:26 hm no 2012-01-09 20:26 I'll start playing with a recent kernel soon 2012-01-09 20:26 I really want to get kgdb working :) 2012-01-09 20:28 and kdb 2012-01-09 20:28 good luck :) 2012-01-09 20:29 but tell me if you succeed, i'd interested in trying it myself 2012-01-09 20:36 sure sure, I'll report 2012-01-09 20:37 kgdb only requires 2 functions to be defined 2012-01-09 20:37 and a script on the host pc to seperate console from gdb putpout 2012-01-09 20:41 ok 2012-01-09 20:41 I'll have to learn that 2012-01-09 20:41 I did not plan to have the console in the same tty though 2012-01-09 20:41 but if that's possible, even better 2012-01-09 20:43 it is 2012-01-09 20:43 there is a multiplexer script 2012-01-09 20:43 basically the script opens ttyX and created ptyY and ptyZ 2012-01-09 20:43 and then you have console on 1 pty and gdb on the second 2012-01-09 20:47 mirko [mirko!~mirko@simulachron-81.in-berlin.de] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 21:20 wpwrak [wpwrak!~werner@94-163-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 21:22 blogic: can there even be a mingetty in the console line? 2012-01-09 21:24 B_Lizzard [B_Lizzard!~havoc@athedsl-425284.home.otenet.gr] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 21:30 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 21:37 i would assume so 2012-01-09 21:40 hm great 2012-01-09 21:51 wpwrak: do we need the drill report from pcbnew? 2012-01-09 21:51 or drill map? 2012-01-09 21:51 File -> Fabrication Outputs -> Drill File 2012-01-09 22:05 yes, we need pcbnew --drill --origin=aux 2012-01-09 22:06 we don't have that now, do we? 2012-01-09 22:06 origins are absolute and aux 2012-01-09 22:06 if we didn't then my imagination must be extremely strong ;-) 2012-01-09 22:07 it's used to provide the drill map for the pcb fab. and also for the "pretty" pcb image 2012-01-09 22:08 btw, most of my kicad magic is here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/makefiles/Makefile.kicad 2012-01-09 22:08 ah ok, yes 2012-01-09 22:09 ahh, you added it :-) 2012-01-09 22:13 oh :) 2012-01-09 22:42 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 22:45 wpwrak: do you use --list-layers or -l anywhere to specify only specific layers for the plotting? 2012-01-09 22:46 or you always just run the plotting and then pick the files you need? 2012-01-09 22:50 lemme see ... 2012-01-09 22:51 yes, both 2012-01-09 22:51 oh :-) 2012-01-09 22:51 see http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/makefiles/Makefile.kicad :) 2012-01-09 22:52 target $(GERBERS) line 94 2012-01-09 22:52 that may be the only place that has --list-layers. i have -l at a few other places as well 2012-01-09 23:04 mstevens [mstevens!~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 23:18 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 23:29 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 23:38 wej [wej!~j@m2.mullvad.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-09 23:46 uwe_ [uwe_!~uwe_@dslb-188-105-019-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #qi-hardware