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2012-01-03 02:08 <kristianpaul> ha, python i missed thatn one
2012-01-03 03:31 <qi-bot> Jon Phillips: Via @qihardware qihardware: @inazhangsh Awesome.  Thank you for the information, Ina. http://t.co/9f8W2mRJ ( 154041815488667649@rejon - 57s ago via Ping.fm )
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2012-01-03 07:44 <viric> wpwrak: I've troubles with the make '-l' because I run boinc
2012-01-03 07:46 <viric> wolfspraul: yes, as wpwrak said, '-l'. Some like to combine -l and -j. You can also call 'nproc'...  "make -j `nproc` -l `nproc`" :)
2012-01-03 07:54 <wpwrak> what's nproc ?
2012-01-03 07:54 <wpwrak> and what's boinc ? :)
2012-01-03 07:58 <pabs3> nproc returns the number of processors/cores/something
2012-01-03 07:58 <pabs3> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/
2012-01-03 08:02 <wpwrak> (boinc) ah, i see. generalized seti :)
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2012-01-03 08:34 <viric> wpwrak: run nproc
2012-01-03 08:35 <viric> wpwrak: well. I'm not much for searching extraterrestrials.
2012-01-03 08:35 <viric> I run boinc for this: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/
2012-01-03 08:36 <wpwrak> nproc doesn't seem to exist on my ubuntu. neither on one of my older gentoo installations. ah, a more recent ubuntu has it.
2012-01-03 08:37 <wpwrak> a very recent ubuntu :)
2012-01-03 08:37 <viric> you live in the past
2012-01-03 08:37 <wpwrak> i don't mind missing the joy of chasing after breakage after upgrades :)
2012-01-03 08:38 <viric> that's because you run such fragile linux distributions
2012-01-03 08:39 <wpwrak> yeah. should have stayed with MCC ;-)
2012-01-03 08:39 <viric> there you go :)
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2012-01-03 08:40 <viric> nproc is in coreutils maybe already two years.
2012-01-03 08:40 <viric> since 2009-11-06
2012-01-03 08:57 <whitequark> http://librecad.org/cms/home.html
2012-01-03 08:58 <whitequark> what do you think about this CAD?
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2012-01-03 09:01 <wpwrak> doesn't seem to be parametric -> of limited use
2012-01-03 09:15 <whitequark> it's the fork of QCad btw
2012-01-03 09:16 <whitequark> what do you mean by "parametric"?
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2012-01-03 12:11 <whitequark> can anyone suggest a good place to get 0603 resistor and capacitor sets?
2012-01-03 12:11 <whitequark> err I think I want E14
2012-01-03 12:11 <whitequark> *E12
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2012-01-03 12:52 <wpwrak> whitequark: parametric = you define dimensions as parameters you can later change, without manually redrawing things
2012-01-03 12:52 <wpwrak> this implies that the CAD also needs to record the logical structure of the construction
2012-01-03 12:57 <viric> oh there is a fork of qcad?
2012-01-03 12:58 <viric> great
2012-01-03 12:58 <viric> it was already hard to keep qcad building :)
2012-01-03 12:59 <roh> wpwrak: well.. depends... you can still manually move stuff around.. groups and 'parts' are in there i think
2012-01-03 13:02 <wpwrak> roh: manually moving things around is what i don't want to have to do ;-)
2012-01-03 13:03 <viric> there was a release of freecad recently
2012-01-03 13:04 <wpwrak> is freecad parametric ? or just scripted ? (scripted is sort of poor man's parametric)
2012-01-03 13:05 <viric> it was scripted, long ago
2012-01-03 13:07 <wpwrak> i guess i'll stick with fped as my "cad" for a bit longer then :) i'm a bit puzzled why people don't make proper parametric cads. if i can do it in what is a little byblow project, it can't be *that* hard ...
2012-01-03 13:07 <pabs3> this thing claims to be parametric (in the title): varkon.sourceforge.net
2012-01-03 13:10 <viric> hm I'll package those
2012-01-03 13:10 <viric> this last is last updated on 2009-02
2012-01-03 13:10 <wpwrak> hmm, i looked at it a while ago but found it too cryptic to use. not sure if it has gotten easier
2012-01-03 13:11 <wpwrak> almost three years .. then it's probably still cryptic :)
2012-01-03 13:20 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/patches/rtems/fix-ftpd-root.patch: allow ftpd to start in /ssd/ (by Xiangfu Liu) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/73b9b50
2012-01-03 13:25 <jonand> whitequark: there are 0603 resistor kits on ebay for $100 or so, in decent boxes
2012-01-03 13:26 <jonand> you could probably find even cheaper in plastic bags but I prefer boxes
2012-01-03 13:27 <jonand> whitequark: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-0603-1-Resistor-Kit-w-Enclosure-128Vx100-12800pcs-/380139852481
2012-01-03 13:28 <wpwrak> boxes are good. vials are better: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/vialtray.jpg
2012-01-03 13:29 <wpwrak> (you can get them cheaply as bio/chem lab supplies)
2012-01-03 13:30 <wpwrak> for resistors, buying some strips isn't too bad. they're still cheap. of course, typing in the order is tedious ...
2012-01-03 13:31 <wpwrak> one benefit of the vial solution is that you can easily rearrange your set as you add things
2012-01-03 13:32 <wpwrak> plus, it gives you a convenient excuse for milling the tray :) http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/vialtray-mill.jpg
2012-01-03 13:36 <whitequark> jonand, wpwrak: thanks
2012-01-03 13:48 <jonand> wpwrak: wow!
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2012-01-03 14:09 <wolfspraul> I'm upleveling the KiCad command line patches
2012-01-03 14:09 <wolfspraul> wow, A LOT of changes in the KiCad sources :-)
2012-01-03 14:09 <wolfspraul> cannot say that I'm complaining, it's good to see an active project...
2012-01-03 14:09 <wolfspraul> but a lot of heavy lifting, moving everything around
2012-01-03 14:09 <wolfspraul> more or less I have to go through each of the command line options again
2012-01-03 14:10 <pabs3> didn't they get merged?
2012-01-03 14:10 <wolfspraul> oh they were not in mergable quality
2012-01-03 14:10 <wolfspraul> and I dropped the ball
2012-01-03 14:11 <wolfspraul> it's a lot of work :-) if you want to lend a helping hand you are more than welcome
2012-01-03 14:11 <wolfspraul> but let me finish this round now, at least make them work again with latest upstream first
2012-01-03 14:11 <wolfspraul> it will take a few days
2012-01-03 14:14 <wolfspraul> also it would be nice to have a test script, so that I can just run a script which will compare results
2012-01-03 14:15 <wolfspraul> so many wishes, just where is Santa Claus???
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2012-01-03 15:34 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: we could probably use the ben-wpan project for a quick test. it exercises a lot of these functions.
2012-01-03 15:55 <wolfspraul> yes I will write a little bash script as a starter, but nothing big
2012-01-03 15:55 <wolfspraul> I have to be careful that this up-leveling finishes fast
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2012-01-03 18:33 <viric> the cross ld tells me: Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 0)
2012-01-03 18:33 <viric> /lib/liblua.a(lapi.o)
2012-01-03 18:33 <viric> what is that thing?
2012-01-03 18:33 <viric> any idea?
2012-01-03 18:39 <Ayla> looks like you're trying to cross-compile a binary that uses liblua
2012-01-03 18:39 <Ayla> but isn't /lib/liblua.a for your host?
2012-01-03 18:39 <jow_laptop> having a /lib/liblua.a at all is very unusual
2012-01-03 18:41 <jow_laptop> viric: whats the context of the error?
2012-01-03 18:41 <viric> linking with liblua
2012-01-03 18:41 <viric> Ayla: that's not a full path.. I wrote the last part
2012-01-03 18:41 <Ayla> ah ok
2012-01-03 18:42 <viric> it only complains on lapi.o
2012-01-03 18:42 <jow_laptop> viric: was the liblua.a built with -fPIC ?
2012-01-03 18:42 <viric> it should not matter. I build a program, not a shared lib
2012-01-03 18:43 <Ayla> yes it does matter
2012-01-03 18:43 <viric> mipsel-unknown-linux-gcc -O2 -Wall -DLUA_USE_LINUX   -c -o lapi.o lapi.c
2012-01-03 18:43 <viric> it matters? why?
2012-01-03 18:44 <viric> I suspect maybe I stripped the .a
2012-01-03 18:44 <viric> build system 'strip' usually breaks host system archives
2012-01-03 18:45 <Ayla> shared objects should always be compiled with -fPIC
2012-01-03 18:45 <viric> I'm not making any shared object
2012-01-03 18:45 <viric> :)
2012-01-03 18:45 <Ayla> well, all the objects inside the .a are shared objects
2012-01-03 18:45 <viric> no
2012-01-03 18:45 <viric> they are normal objects
2012-01-03 18:45 <viric> '.o' vs '.so'
2012-01-03 18:45 <viric> :)
2012-01-03 18:46 <viric> right, I stripped the .a. Solved.
2012-01-03 18:46 <Ayla> I know .so
2012-01-03 18:47 <Ayla> but the objects inside a .a should be relocatable
2012-01-03 18:47 <Ayla> hence the -fPIC
2012-01-03 18:47 <viric> No
2012-01-03 18:47 <viric> well
2012-01-03 18:47 <viric> they are relocatable
2012-01-03 18:47 <Ayla> so that you can compile different binaries with one .a
2012-01-03 18:47 <viric> but PIC means "relocatable at runtime"
2012-01-03 18:47 <viric> every .o is relocatable
2012-01-03 18:47 <viric> always
2012-01-03 18:48 <viric> but not at runtime
2012-01-03 18:48 <Ayla> hmm.
2012-01-03 18:48 <Ayla> right
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2012-01-03 19:47 <viric> it's incredible how 'strip' destroys host-system objects
2012-01-03 19:47 <viric> they look normal, but host-ld does not want them anymore.
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2012-01-03 19:52 <wpwrak> could that be one of the reasons why "strip" has options ? :)
2012-01-03 19:54 <viric> the host-strip works fine.
2012-01-03 19:54 <viric> the build-strip destroys it :)
2012-01-03 19:54 <wpwrak> division of labour :)
2012-01-03 19:54 <viric> hehe
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2012-01-03 20:51 <viric> sorry, but.. what do you use for cad then? :)
2012-01-03 20:51 <viric> fped?
2012-01-03 20:52 <viric> you wrote fped? :)
2012-01-03 20:53 <wpwrak> i use fped wherever i can, yes
2012-01-03 20:53 <wpwrak> and yes, i wrote it :)
2012-01-03 20:54 <viric> aah..
2012-01-03 20:54 <wpwrak> e.g., this is for the labsw front plate: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/labsw/mech/front.fpd
2012-01-03 20:54 <viric> is it some kind of 'povray' for 2d?
2012-01-03 20:55 <viric> it reminds me of metapost a bit.
2012-01-03 20:55 <wpwrak> this is M1 left and right wall, with new/changed holes: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/m1/case/case.fpd
2012-01-03 20:56 <wpwrak> you can use the scripting language or you can use the GUI
2012-01-03 20:56 <viric> ok
2012-01-03 20:56 <wpwrak> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/fped/gui.html
2012-01-03 20:58 <viric> where to get fped?
2012-01-03 20:58 <wpwrak> see http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/fped/README
2012-01-03 20:59 <wpwrak> oh wait
2012-01-03 20:59 <wpwrak> that's obsolete :)
2012-01-03 20:59 <wpwrak> this is better: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/README
2012-01-03 21:01 <viric> hmmm
2012-01-03 21:01 <wpwrak> README updated :)
2012-01-03 21:01 <viric> it looks like a big effort :)
2012-01-03 21:02 <wpwrak> in what sense ?
2012-01-03 21:02 <viric> it's not a trivial program
2012-01-03 21:03 <wpwrak> it took more than a weekend, yes ;)
2012-01-03 21:04 <viric> ok, I keep note ;) I won't use it now, at least
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2012-01-03 21:05 <viric> although it would be nice to have it running...
2012-01-03 21:05 <viric> wpwrak: do you have an output example?
2012-01-03 21:06 <wpwrak> how about some footprints ? http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-modules.pdf
2012-01-03 21:08 <viric> the pdf is entirely made with fped?
2012-01-03 21:08 <wpwrak> the front panel of labsw: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/labsw/tmp/front.pdf
2012-01-03 21:08 <wpwrak> fped generated postscript files. i they merged them into a pdf with a script
2012-01-03 21:09 <viric> ok
2012-01-03 21:09 <wpwrak> (labsw) i was too lazy to add measurements :)
2012-01-03 21:09 <viric> aha :)
2012-01-03 21:10 <wpwrak> they're kinda unnecessary on that case anyway :)
2012-01-03 21:10 <viric> how do you write measurements in fped?
2012-01-03 21:11 <wpwrak> you measure between the points, then set the offset (if any) of the measurement line
2012-01-03 21:12 <wpwrak> the distances come from parameters. the measurements only tell you what the end result is
2012-01-03 21:13 <wpwrak> measurements have a few quirks. e.g., you can't measure between arbitrary points. but it usually lets you measure between the points you need. (there are some tricks to improve that, but they're only accessible via the scripting language)
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2012-01-03 21:26 <viric> wpwrak: is it very different from metapost?
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2012-01-03 21:28 <viric> I used metapost for some kind of drawing similar to what you get with fped, I think
2012-01-03 21:29 <viric> I used it when I needed to draw series of black/write circular sectors, to calibrate a 33rpm long play player with a fluorescent tube
2012-01-03 21:34 <whitequark> er
2012-01-03 21:34 <whitequark> that stuff about parametric CADs reminds me of this: http://dvdp.tumblr.com/tagged/dvdp%20done
2012-01-03 21:37 <viric> :)
2012-01-03 21:45 <viric> nice link
2012-01-03 21:51 <whitequark> yeah
2012-01-03 21:51 <whitequark> I hope I've not killed anyone's brain here
2012-01-03 21:51 <viric> I can stand it :)
2012-01-03 21:54 <viric> I'm still most imporessed with this one http://iphoneappcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/whoa.jpg (or similar)
2012-01-03 21:55 <viric> (I just searched the image - I'm not giving that specific url for anything in particular)
2012-01-03 21:55 <whitequark> oh yes, I know that for ages
2012-01-03 21:56 <wpwrak> viric: metapost seems to be more drawing-oriented. fped focuses more on objects. plus, fped is designed such that you can have a GUI with functionality (well, almost) equivalent to the scripting language
2012-01-03 21:56 <whitequark> viric: works almost as well even if it's printed
2012-01-03 21:56 <viric> ah ok. no gui for metapost. But it's quite powerful
2012-01-03 21:57 <viric> whitequark: I know I know :)
2012-01-03 21:57 <viric> I had that in my cubicle wall for a long time :)
2012-01-03 22:00 <viric> http://iphoneappcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/sea-sick.png that's even nicer :)
2012-01-03 22:00 <whitequark> viric: have you had to take it down due to coworker/boss complaints? :D
2012-01-03 22:01 <viric> some complained, yes ;)
2012-01-03 22:05 <wpwrak> viric: why on earth ?
2012-01-03 22:06 <wpwrak> whitequark: seasick is nice. didn't know that one yet
2012-01-03 22:06 <wpwrak> err, viric, too :)
2012-01-03 22:06 * whitequark adds a point to his todo list. you know, "if it'll ever happen that I'd work in office..."
2012-01-03 22:07 <wpwrak> ... paint all the walls like that :)
2012-01-03 22:11 <whitequark> heh
2012-01-03 22:11 <whitequark> even better
2012-01-03 22:12 <whitequark> "get a lot of HUGE oled panels and tile with these animated gifs"
2012-01-03 22:12 <whitequark> bonus points for fading from one to another.
2012-01-03 22:12 <whitequark> madness is guaranteed.
2012-01-03 22:16 <wpwrak> when elop burns out, we'll send you to complete the work of destruction :)
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