2012-01-02 00:27 cladamw [cladamw!~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 00:46 cladamw: good morning in the new year! ;-) 2012-01-02 01:09 wolfspra1l, hi good morning in 2012 .:-) 2012-01-02 01:11 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 02:20 Openfree` [Openfree`!~Openfreer@116.228.88.131] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 03:07 panda|x201 [panda|x201!~hzhang@123.116.127.173] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 05:25 cladamw [cladamw!~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 06:02 DocScrutinizer [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 06:55 skynet-2000 [skynet-2000!~skynet-20@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 07:19 pabs3 [pabs3!~pabs@d175-38-169-34.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 07:45 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@vulture2-nat-43.telecom.by] has 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2012-01-02 20:36 here's what I got: make 9.01 min; -j2 4.30 min; -j4 3.24 min; -j6 3.10 min; -j8 3.06 min 2012-01-02 20:37 so I guess from now on I will always try either -j8 or -j4 first, hopefully won't run into too many build weaknesses... 2012-01-02 20:40 hehe :-) 2012-01-02 20:41 yes, make -j saves quite a lot of time. if you have plenty of RAM to cache the whole tree, even better 2012-01-02 20:57 you can build with parallelism based on the system load 2012-01-02 21:19 rozzin [rozzin!~rozzin@209-20-69-211.slicehost.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 21:35 viric: how? 2012-01-02 21:38 jluis [jluis!~jluis@2001:5c0:1400:a::3b] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 21:40 with -l perhaps ? 2012-01-02 21:41 but most machines have no significant background load anyway. well, except for perhaps some runaway flash player ... 2012-01-02 21:42 i have a script called "np" that just does killall npviewer.bin nspluginviewer incredibly handy for keeping a healthy low load average :) 2012-01-02 21:45 wolfspraul: if you have 8 cpus -j9 2012-01-02 22:01 he. thanks! trying that same build as before with -j9 brought it to 2.38 min (without any other load), quite a bit faster than -j8 2012-01-02 22:01 could be caching or filesystem related though, who knows. will go with -j9 from now on... 2012-01-02 22:02 try with -j64 2012-01-02 22:02 maybe it'll compile in less than a minute :) 2012-01-02 22:25 wolfspraul [wolfspraul!~wolfsprau@p5B0AAC7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 22:25 DocScrutinizer [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 22:37 antonio_ [antonio_!~antonio@host-92-19-106-165.as13285.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 22:49 wpwrak: I used to have `killall -9 python' in crontab. It worked just as well 2012-01-02 22:49 at least on ubuntu 2012-01-02 22:50 ;-)) 2012-01-02 22:54 Ayla [Ayla!~paul@9.240.112.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 23:00 DataZombie [DataZombie!~DataZombi@unaffiliated/skynet2000] has joined #qi-hardware 2012-01-02 23:16 does anyone know an open standard for low-power, low-complexity wireless sensor networks? 2012-01-02 23:16 preferably less complex than both zigbee and 6lowpan 2012-01-02 23:17 you can always do your own on top of 802.15.4 :) 2012-01-02 23:17 i.e. something where all the stack can be fit in a single Arduino (no, I'm not going to use arduinos, but that describes the limit) 2012-01-02 23:17 hm 2012-01-02 23:18 (like i did with dirtpan. though i wouldn't call that a "standard" :) 2012-01-02 23:18 (or simpler) 2012-01-02 23:18 interesting 2012-01-02 23:18 can you suggest any plain 802.15.4 modules? i.e. not zigbee ones 2012-01-02 23:19 oh well, there's even a dedicated wikipedia page on the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_802.15.4_radio_modules 2012-01-02 23:21 define "module" :) 2012-01-02 23:21 there's of course the atben/atusb design ... 2012-01-02 23:22 anything which has SPI input and ready-to-use PCB/chip antenna 2012-01-02 23:22 _and_ has a low cost 2012-01-02 23:22 atben is pretty close. you'll make you own pcb anyway, right ? 2012-01-02 23:22 just reuse the design 2012-01-02 23:23 how hard do you think it will be to integrate the design on my own PCB as a part? 2012-01-02 23:23 it's RF and stuff 2012-01-02 23:23 depends. is your pcb 0.8 mm ? 2012-01-02 23:23 and I have zero experience in RF and no instruments which I can use to debug RF problems 2012-01-02 23:23 hm 2012-01-02 23:25 instruments are useful to have. no matter how you approach it. also pre-built modules can run into all sorts of problems. without at least a spectrum analyzer or similar, you'll never know if your design has troubles 2012-01-02 23:25 the prototyping service I'm currently using (iteadstudio.com) has the 0.8mm variant, and I think I can adapt all other stuff to that 2012-01-02 23:26 well, I can't afford a spectrum analyzer, I think 2012-01-02 23:26 if your pcb is 1.6 mm, you'd have to adjust the pcb antenna of atben. that's unfortunately a bit of trial and error (and measurements) 2012-01-02 23:26 they're expensive as hell 2012-01-02 23:26 yes. a usrp is often cheaper. but still not "cheap" 2012-01-02 23:26 Nordic semiconductor modules are cheaper than $5 2012-01-02 23:26 but sometimes you can find places/friends who can let you use their equipment. universities can be great places for that. 2012-01-02 23:27 but they're also feature vendor lock-in 2012-01-02 23:27 what range requirements to you have ? and how compliant to emission standards does it have to be ? 2012-01-02 23:27 I'm looking at all of the emerging open hardware projects on the topic ("internet of things" and similar stuff), and I've finally decided that's not an option 2012-01-02 23:28 so you don't want to do this after all ? 2012-01-02 23:28 err 2012-01-02 23:28 I was talking about vendor lock-in 2012-01-02 23:28 not the whole project 2012-01-02 23:28 ah, vendor lock-in always sucks :) 2012-01-02 23:29 (range) 20m in a house with maybe one or two reinforced concrete walls 2012-01-02 23:29 it may make the beancounters in the back office happy, but they're not the engineers :) 2012-01-02 23:29 hmm. then you need a power amp. 2012-01-02 23:29 (compliance) I don't care unless it's emitting two times more than my WiFi AP. No one will notice anyway 2012-01-02 23:30 I am not going to sell that commercially, nor I want to do anything with FCC (yet). It's just a pet project just for me 2012-01-02 23:30 don't underestimate the fragility of wlan ;-) even with the meager 2 mW my atben/atusb can put into the air, i can mess up my wlan quite badly ;-) 2012-01-02 23:30 oh 2012-01-02 23:30 oh well. 2012-01-02 23:30 the solution is of course not to make it hog the same channel 2012-01-02 23:31 my wlan disrupts the performance of my Bluetooth mouse, so I've decided to move it to 5GHz spectrum, as it's finally allowed in Russia 2012-01-02 23:31 but if i'm in a mean mood, i can quite easily jam my wlan with it 2012-01-02 23:31 okay, i'm all 2.4 GHz :) 2012-01-02 23:31 but I have neighbors... 2012-01-02 23:31 hm 2012-01-02 23:32 I never thought of wlan to be so fragile. 2012-01-02 23:32 if you implement the usual channel access protocols, then you should be fine 2012-01-02 23:32 it will clash every once in a while, but nobody will notice 2012-01-02 23:33 does 802.15.4 phy/mac include that already? 2012-01-02 23:33 I bet it does 2012-01-02 23:33 my jamming happens when i deliberately make it misbehave (but still at a fraction of the power) 2012-01-02 23:33 yes, that's normally there 2012-01-02 23:33 it's fine then 2012-01-02 23:33 (range) wait, I think I screwed up 2012-01-02 23:34 the range is about circle, not area 2012-01-02 23:34 * whitequark gets his tape measure 2012-01-02 23:34 if you can do with 10 m free space or maybe 2-3 m through "nasty" walls, the at86rf231 is a good chip to start with. documentation is quite complete. and you have an existing project you can fork from. 2012-01-02 23:34 for a larger range, you'd have to add an rf amp, though 2012-01-02 23:35 range is radius :) 2012-01-02 23:36 yeah :) 2012-01-02 23:36 (atben/atusb) plus, you can get usb dongles with known to be good specs. or, if you have a ben, atben. that's even cheaper. 2012-01-02 23:36 I don't have any two points more distant than 6m 2012-01-02 23:37 and there are no concrete walls inside anyway 2012-01-02 23:37 that way, you can quickly compare performance. the production tests process can detect some RF issues, using just atben and atusb: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/index.html 2012-01-02 23:37 so I think that atben-based design will work here 2012-01-02 23:38 hm, interesting 2012-01-02 23:39 i got okay reception with about 5 m through a wall. so yes, it may work 2012-01-02 23:39 what makes a big difference is where you locate those big bags of water, called "people"