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2011-12-31 00:28 <whitequark> wpwrak: (cyanogen) I have cyanogen, of course
2011-12-31 00:29 <whitequark> the stock firmware is not only absolutely close-sourced, but also horribly unusable
2011-12-31 00:29 <whitequark> not like in "not as good as iphone" but more like "oh crap is this fucking beta?!!"
2011-12-31 00:29 <whitequark> prior to installing cyanogen, I've almost entirely lost my faith in Google making something usable
2011-12-31 00:30 <whitequark> actually, that wasn't Google's fault.
2011-12-31 00:31 <whitequark> cyanogen isn't ideal either--some nitpicking applies, and browser hangs sometimes--but it is really really good. I'd say it approaches Apple's software quality in several areas
2011-12-31 00:31 <whitequark> it's CM 7, which is based on Android 2.3. People say that CM9 based on Android 4 is even better, but it is not ready for my phone yet
2011-12-31 00:32 <whitequark> as per the blobs
2011-12-31 00:32 <whitequark> CM "releases" for different phones actually consist of identical CM codebase + blobs extracted from the stock firmware
2011-12-31 00:33 <whitequark> so it's just the same (except that blobs are often written by idiots and fail because of some minor differences, and _also_ some of them don't work with CM 9 because of ABI changes)
2011-12-31 00:35 <whitequark> (close-sourced stock fw) Samsung has released the full kernel sources--there are no kernel binary drivers--but there are blobs in Android, and they didn't obviously released any of their Android modifications
2011-12-31 00:35 <whitequark> another thing I like about this phone is its bootloader: a) unbrickable b) not tivoized.
2011-12-31 00:37 <whitequark> it tracks the count of reflashes, and I think records if a custom firmware was ever installed on phone, but you won't need to get support due to software problems (see a), and I never heard of people whose phone got rejected on warranty service because of custom firmware, if there was a hardware problem.
2011-12-31 00:40 <wpwrak> still sounds like an unfriendly place to be. i think i'll stick with my cute little x830 dumbphone for a little longer ;-)
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2011-12-31 00:46 <whitequark> wpwrak: depends on your definition of "friendly"
2011-12-31 00:47 <whitequark> yes, it has blobs. My notebook does, too: fglrx.
2011-12-31 00:48 <whitequark> otherwise, the OS is fine. I'm more worried about applications. Android doesn't have very fine-grained permission model (I doubt it could have it without imposing needless restrictions), and they're closed-source
2011-12-31 00:48 <whitequark> I think twice before installing anything.
2011-12-31 00:49 <whitequark> e.g. all applications which want to save any sensible amount of data--games, anything with cache, etc.--has the "read and write SD card permission"
2011-12-31 00:49 <whitequark> *have
2011-12-31 00:50 <whitequark> they could as well gather all of my passwords and dump them somewhere.
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2011-12-31 00:52 <whitequark> for example, I'm looking at permissions for Angry Birds now
2011-12-31 00:52 <whitequark> "modify/delete SD card contents"
2011-12-31 00:52 <whitequark> "coarse (network-based) location"
2011-12-31 00:53 <whitequark> "full Internet access"
2011-12-31 00:53 <whitequark> "read phone state and identity"
2011-12-31 00:53 <whitequark> this is just a huge WTF.
2011-12-31 00:53 <whitequark> no, really? phone identity?
2011-12-31 00:54 <wpwrak> ;-)
2011-12-31 00:54 <wpwrak> android - bringing all the joy of the windows world to linux-based telephony :)
2011-12-31 00:54 <whitequark> just what I thought
2011-12-31 00:55 <whitequark> for decades, firewalls were required in *nix world to prevent something getting inside
2011-12-31 00:55 <whitequark> and in the *doze world to prevent what's already inside from spreading further
2011-12-31 00:56 <whitequark> but at least I can finally trust my OS. This is, I should note, not true with dumbphones.
2011-12-31 01:00 <wpwrak> the key to security on dumbphones is simply that they can't do much :)
2011-12-31 01:08 <whitequark> I, personally, can't live without GPS
2011-12-31 01:08 <whitequark> that has some implications.
2011-12-31 01:08 <whitequark> a separate GPS navigator is an option, but it's easier to not install anything you see on Market.
2011-12-31 01:09 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: yes, you just said it (bring windows)
2011-12-31 01:09 <whitequark> my personal plan on reducing the amount of crap in the world is as follows:
2011-12-31 01:09 <whitequark> a) identify crap b) contain it c) destroy by replacing with something better
2011-12-31 01:09 <whitequark> android is on step b).
2011-12-31 01:10 <wpwrak> step c) sounds good :)
2011-12-31 01:10 <whitequark> I mean, in the whole ecosystem. As OS it approaches c).
2011-12-31 01:10 <kristianpaul> just OS?
2011-12-31 01:11 <whitequark> kristianpaul: sadly, you still have all the binary drivers and unholy GSM, and you can't do anything with the latter
2011-12-31 01:11 <wpwrak> and i really wonder if my fridge has decided to die this year ... that would be a rather inconvenient moment. or maybe it's just defrosting.
2011-12-31 01:11 <whitequark> and the state of mobile applications isn't very promising when it comes to FOSS 
2011-12-31 01:12 <kristianpaul> just defrosting is not very commoun unless scheduled :-)
2011-12-31 01:12 <whitequark> wpwrak: err... can your fridge decide to go defrosting on its own? sounds scary
2011-12-31 01:12 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: oh, it does that automatically from time to time. just seems to let things get suspiciously warm.
2011-12-31 01:12 <kristianpaul> wow !
2011-12-31 01:12 <whitequark> a machine rebel!
2011-12-31 01:12 <kristianpaul> my mom will like that ;)
2011-12-31 01:13 <wpwrak> whitequark: i think better modern fridges normally do that
2011-12-31 01:14 <wpwrak> the critter is almost ten years old. i'm not sure if it's just coincidence or if its age is showing.
2011-12-31 01:15 <whitequark> as per that osmocombb link (catcher)
2011-12-31 01:16 <whitequark> I really hope that the developers live in a good place no government on Earth knows about
2011-12-31 01:16 <kristianpaul> too dramatic :)
2011-12-31 01:17 <whitequark> that wasn't entirely serious :)
2011-12-31 01:17 <whitequark> it's not that particular project, through
2011-12-31 01:17 <whitequark> the whole GSM situation is a bomb waiting to explode
2011-12-31 01:18 <whitequark> a textbook example on why you don't do closed protocols
2011-12-31 01:19 <kristianpaul> GSM explode by it self i bet :)
2011-12-31 01:19 <kristianpaul> and  obsolete sooner or latter
2011-12-31 01:20 <whitequark> yeah, it's more surprising that it has not exploded yet
2011-12-31 01:20 <whitequark> (obsolete) I don't know practically anything on LTE or another 3-to-5 letter acronyms
2011-12-31 01:20 <whitequark> but I bet they're quite similar in that sense
2011-12-31 01:23 <wpwrak> telcos hate nothing more than change. did you know that ATM (that's 155 Mbps and beyond technology, which was fast at its time) signaling still included dialing individual digits ? so you could send the destination address one digit per signaling message ...
2011-12-31 01:23 <whitequark> LOL
2011-12-31 01:24 <kristianpaul> not surprising :)
2011-12-31 01:24 <whitequark> this considerably raises the bar on the most stupid technology thing I've seen
2011-12-31 01:25 <whitequark> wpwrak: are you sure it's nothing like an April's fool RFC? :D
2011-12-31 01:26 <wpwrak> that wuold be more the domain of all the crazy "tcp without tcp" schemes they hatched in the atm world
2011-12-31 01:30 <kristianpaul> udp :)
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2011-12-31 02:30 <qi-bot> Jon Phillips: Via @qihardware qihardware: Open Hardware Manufacturing (from China) http://t.co/CVCY1QOD http://t.co/9KdjM3JV ( 152939504087465986@rejon - 8s ago via Ping.fm )
2011-12-31 05:44 <pabs3> whitequark: http://f-droid.org/ for FOSS Android apps
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2011-12-31 07:17 <whitequark> pabs3: thanks
2011-12-31 07:18 <pabs3> whitequark: theres also http://replicant.us/ if you want to get rid of the OS blobs
2011-12-31 07:19 <pabs3> personally I would bet on FSO and distros containing it though
2011-12-31 07:59 <whitequark> pabs3: err, no WiFi, no BT
2011-12-31 07:59 <whitequark> sorry, I bought that phone because it has WiFi
2011-12-31 07:59 <whitequark> not the other way around
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2011-12-31 10:48 <pabs3> whitequark: eh? Replicant is an Android fork, not a phone :)
2011-12-31 10:50 <viric> pabs3: it does not plan to support wifi
2011-12-31 10:50 <viric> pabs3: it's in their list of "what we will probably never achieve"
2011-12-31 10:52 <pabs3> viric: I guess you can copy the wifi blobs from CM or plain Android
2011-12-31 10:54 <whitequark> pabs3: then how it will be different from CM?
2011-12-31 10:54 <whitequark> CM is already FOSS
2011-12-31 10:55 <whitequark> *
2011-12-31 10:55 <whitequark> * except for blobs copied from stock fw, obviously
2011-12-31 10:55 <whitequark> but without blobs it's unusable.
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2011-12-31 12:57 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: one of my fridges one day decided to mutate to a breeding box, butter inside was melting liquid. It definitely exaggerated the defrosting, both in temperature rise and duration (which was 'infinite')
2011-12-31 12:58 <wpwrak> that must be why they warn of that "dual use" technology ;-)
2011-12-31 13:02 <DocScrutinizer> basically "switching" is as easy as cutting one wire of the starter C, so compressor motor doesn't start turning anymore, still consumes ~100W. The Freon "heatpipe" will conventiently transport the heat from motor to vaporizer inside
2011-12-31 13:03 <DocScrutinizer> of course a simple blocked bearing will do as well
2011-12-31 13:04 <DocScrutinizer> only inconvenience: usually the thermostat isn't built to control that operation mode, so you can't set your fridge to 35°C for breeding canary eggs
2011-12-31 13:07 <viric> I thought of selling my hp49g on ebay...
2011-12-31 13:07 <viric> noone gives a cent for that
2011-12-31 13:08 <viric> I should have done that 10 years ago
2011-12-31 13:16 <wpwrak> viric: wait another 10 years :)
2011-12-31 13:19 <DocScrutinizer> hmmm HP49
2011-12-31 13:20 * DocScrutinizer sobs a little thinking of his HP45CV that got incinerated some 4 years ago
2011-12-31 13:24 <wpwrak> what, not a HP41 ? now i'm disappointed
2011-12-31 13:33 <DocScrutinizer> errr, 41? Look, my brain rots
2011-12-31 13:35 <DocScrutinizer> I'd not be surprised if this was related to the incident that killed my HP calculator. I don't want to know what toxic fumes that fire produced and exposed me to
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2011-12-31 13:37 <DocScrutinizer> NiCad cells, LiIon cells, several handheld devices, all incinerated *indoors* - with me extinguishing the fire (and burning my face)
2011-12-31 13:37 <viric> oh
2011-12-31 13:38 <DocScrutinizer> sure, looking at the wikipedia picture, it obviously been a hp-41cv
2011-12-31 13:56 <wpwrak> hah ! :)
2011-12-31 14:02 <DocScrutinizer> meh, hp-49 has a crappy keyboard
2011-12-31 14:06 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: why the fire has started?
2011-12-31 14:08 <DocScrutinizer> probably a runaway NiMH battery in a "table hoover" that sat on his charging bay
2011-12-31 14:08 <DocScrutinizer> but nobody can tell from the ashes
2011-12-31 14:13 <DocScrutinizer> cheap chinese crap, charging the batteries with constant current all the time, from a poorly stabilized wallwart PSU
2011-12-31 14:13 <DocScrutinizer> once a NiMH runs away and gets hot, there's no stopping anymore
2011-12-31 14:14 <DocScrutinizer> as voltage drops, thus current increaes -> even ore heat produced
2011-12-31 14:17 <DocScrutinizer> some cheap crap like http://www.amazon.de/Tristar-KR-2155-Handstaubsauger-nass-trocken/dp/B002OI9SKO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1325340999&sr=8-10
2011-12-31 14:18 <viric> DocScrutinizer: yes, very bad keyboard compared to hp48
2011-12-31 14:19 <DocScrutinizer> the keys were the one most outstanding thing of good HP calculators like HP-25, HP-41
2011-12-31 14:20 <viric> I only experienced 48 and 49
2011-12-31 14:21 <viric> oh In 2003, the CAS source code of the 49G ROM was released under the LGPL. 
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2011-12-31 15:09 * kristianpaul sold its HP50g to buy the Nanonote 
2011-12-31 15:11 <kristianpaul> i wasnt using latelly so much anyway since learn bit of scilab and discover some CAS for linux
2011-12-31 15:11 <kristianpaul> but i miss the keyboard :/
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2011-12-31 15:14 <kristianpaul> hmm btw no Maxima in the nanonote..
2011-12-31 15:14 <kristianpaul> openwrt's*
2011-12-31 15:32 <kristianpaul> viric: just 49G?
2011-12-31 15:32 <kristianpaul> interesting
2011-12-31 15:32 <kristianpaul> why i dint knew that..
2011-12-31 15:34 <DocScrutinizer> hp50g looks "decent" - would like to get one
2011-12-31 15:36 <DocScrutinizer> but for today it's just cursing my company for doing wages money transfer just yesterday, so neither hp50g nor anything else for me this year :-(
2011-12-31 15:36 <viric> kristianpaul: didn't know what?
2011-12-31 15:37 <kristianpaul> viric: relesed sourced code for 49g
2011-12-31 15:37 <viric> ah
2011-12-31 15:37 <kristianpaul> released*
2011-12-31 15:37 <viric> me neither.
2011-12-31 15:37 <DocScrutinizer> probably I won't be able to afford the public transport ticket to go to work on Monday ;-P
2011-12-31 15:37 <kristianpaul> ??
2011-12-31 15:37 <viric> DocScrutinizer: this year? There is little left of this year
2011-12-31 15:38 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
2011-12-31 15:38 <DocScrutinizer> that's what's pissing me off
2011-12-31 15:39 <DocScrutinizer> no shopping this year, no food nor booze for this night, no shopping for next week's working days - whatever I planned to buy between xmess and new year
2011-12-31 15:40 <viric> oh.
2011-12-31 15:40 <viric> I'm sorry
2011-12-31 15:41 <DocScrutinizer> a credit with 0% interest for the employer, from every employee
2011-12-31 15:41 <viric> they did the wages transfer yesterday, or did not?
2011-12-31 15:41 <DocScrutinizer> they allegedly did, now it's between the banks
2011-12-31 15:42 <viric> ah ok
2011-12-31 15:42 <DocScrutinizer> hell, this is no better than working as freelancer
2011-12-31 15:42 <DocScrutinizer> where I also sent my invoice last of month usually
2011-12-31 15:43 <viric> error: cannot download mplayer_jz47xx-0.1.2.tar.gz from any mirror
2011-12-31 15:43 <DocScrutinizer> so WTF are they paying just a third of what a freelancer would earn?
2011-12-31 15:43 <viric> companies are made to give money to company owners
2011-12-31 15:43 <viric> not for any other purpose
2011-12-31 15:44 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, and it's making me sick to get abised by them
2011-12-31 15:44 <DocScrutinizer> abused
2011-12-31 15:44 <viric> abusing is a good way of making money
2011-12-31 15:45 <DocScrutinizer> hire experts, send them to a company for much money, pay then a fraction of what they earn you, and then even transfer that money at latest possible point in time
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2011-12-31 15:47 <lars_> DocScrutinizer: 1/3 before or after taxes?
2011-12-31 15:48 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, maybe 1/4 after
2011-12-31 15:49 <DocScrutinizer> like 40% before
2011-12-31 15:49 <lars_> you should probably not have signed that contract 
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2011-12-31 15:50 <wpwrak> 1/4 = 40% ?
2011-12-31 15:51 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
2011-12-31 15:52 <lars_> 1/4 after taxes, 40% before taxes
2011-12-31 15:52 <wpwrak> ah .. after tax / before tax. i see.
2011-12-31 15:52 <DocScrutinizer> 100%=freelancer, 40%=employee bruto, 25%=employee netto
2011-12-31 15:52 <wpwrak> freelancers don't pay taxes ?
2011-12-31 15:52 <lars_> they do
2011-12-31 15:52 <DocScrutinizer> depends
2011-12-31 15:52 <DocScrutinizer> sure they do
2011-12-31 15:53 <DocScrutinizer> but not ~50% of bruto income
2011-12-31 15:53 <lars_> and they even pay more on social security
2011-12-31 15:54 <lars_> because here in germany your employer pays about half of it
2011-12-31 15:54 <DocScrutinizer> depends, this time on country I guess
2011-12-31 15:54 <lars_> yes, but we are talking about you
2011-12-31 15:54 <DocScrutinizer> I can't see how I pay any social taxes as a freelancer
2011-12-31 15:55 <viric> here employers pay the social security, after that we name it 'bruto', then the employee pays the taxes, and after that, we name it 'netto'.
2011-12-31 15:55 <DocScrutinizer> it's more like I pay for pension now that I'll never get
2011-12-31 15:55 <lars_> no health insurance?
2011-12-31 15:56 <DocScrutinizer> well, that been like 5..10% of my bruto income as freelancer, for the last few jobs
2011-12-31 15:57 <wpwrak> and taxes are probably progressive. so with a lower income, you also lose a smaller fraction to feeding the banksters
2011-12-31 15:57 <DocScrutinizer> definitely not that much
2011-12-31 15:58 <DocScrutinizer> I'm anyway already close to max of almost 50% incl all with my income
2011-12-31 15:58 <wpwrak> if the visible tax burden is suddenly much worse after becoming an employee, then you may not have paid all the taxes before :)
2011-12-31 15:58 <DocScrutinizer> and for freelancers there's no such progression
2011-12-31 15:58 <lars_> DocScrutinizer: i would way if you'd get 55%-65% brutto of your freelancer income it would be ok
2011-12-31 15:58 <DocScrutinizer> for health at least
2011-12-31 15:59 <lars_> less is bad, more is good
2011-12-31 15:59 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: not health insurance but other taxes
2011-12-31 15:59 <lars_> 'i would say'
2011-12-31 16:00 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: I got no unemployment ensurance as frelancer, so hadn't to pay for it
2011-12-31 16:00 <DocScrutinizer> I got no pension taxes to pay as freelancer as well
2011-12-31 16:01 <DocScrutinizer> and my health insurance was definitely less as well
2011-12-31 16:03 <lars_> you pay more although you earn less?
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2011-12-31 16:03 <DocScrutinizer> I got a completely different class of insurance for health
2011-12-31 16:04 <viric> now you get a hospital room for you, if you catch a cold?
2011-12-31 16:04 <DocScrutinizer> haha
2011-12-31 16:04 <DocScrutinizer> I got that before, after paying my own share of max 2000EUR per year
2011-12-31 16:04 <DocScrutinizer> private insurance
2011-12-31 16:04 <DocScrutinizer> now I pay more, for less
2011-12-31 16:04 <viric> ok
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2011-12-31 16:06 <DocScrutinizer> but not paying any 2000€ on my own, so every fool can visit doc 8 times a month, asking for whatever prescription, and that's what makes this insurance WAY more expensive
2011-12-31 16:06 <DocScrutinizer> which "doesn't care, as employer does all that for you, so you got no choice anyway
2011-12-31 16:08 <DocScrutinizer> "working in Taipei" was the most economic thing, regarding taxes
2011-12-31 16:12 <lars_> well, life sucks, we all know that ;)
2011-12-31 16:12 <lars_> and whining about it, won't change it
2011-12-31 16:20 <kristianpaul> bingo :)
2011-12-31 16:20 <kristianpaul> :D http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/
2011-12-31 16:21 <kristianpaul> rss are fantastic ;)
2011-12-31 16:21 <viric> we are still lucky, because 80K people die every day in the world due to lack of access to food.
2011-12-31 16:21 <viric> not by chance they can't access food, of course.
2011-12-31 16:25 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: should consider at http://planet.osmocom.org/ to our planet at some point
2011-12-31 16:26 <lars_> kristianpaul: i heard you like planets, so i put a planet on planet?
2011-12-31 16:28 <kristianpaul> he
2011-12-31 16:29 <kristianpaul> thats the problem
2011-12-31 16:29 <kristianpaul> ah nv
2011-12-31 16:30 <kristianpaul> i got, the planet was fed by the this trac
2011-12-31 16:30 <kristianpaul> http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/blog?format=rss
2011-12-31 16:30 <kristianpaul> phew
2011-12-31 16:40 <DocScrutinizer> lars_: Microsoft is evil, and quoting Helmut Kohl doesn't change that - sounds as much to the point
2011-12-31 16:44 <lars_> not really
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2011-12-31 17:12 <DocScrutinizer> anyway happy new year to the asian and australian areas
2011-12-31 17:33 <viric> they may be all drunk already
2011-12-31 17:33 <kristianpaul> here they're already ;)
2011-12-31 17:34 <kristianpaul> and no 2012 yet
2011-12-31 18:21 <viric> I update the nanonixos in the nanonote for the new year :)
2011-12-31 18:42 <kristianpaul> phew, vpn out ! i can rest in peace :)
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2011-12-31 22:01 <whitequark> grr
2011-12-31 22:02 <whitequark> so loud
2011-12-31 22:06 <kristianpaul> ?
2011-12-31 22:16 <wolfspraul> I thought this was an interesting year-end Android roundup https://plus.google.com/112218872649456413744/posts/75aLL1dWY2u
2011-12-31 22:16 <wolfspraul> from an open source perspective
2011-12-31 22:17 <mstevens> I played with an android tablet today, I was surprised how non-crap they are
2011-12-31 22:17 <mstevens> from a UI perspective
2011-12-31 23:03 <kristianpaul> i can imagine
2011-12-31 23:04 <kristianpaul> i always was curios to check first UI for android early devices witn no touch, i guess/hope they can be  inspiring for our little nanonote 
2011-12-31 23:16 <pabs3> wolfspraul: can you pastebin for those of us who disable JS?
2011-12-31 23:21 <mstevens> I should see what the current nanonote software is like
2011-12-31 23:32 <kristianpaul> pabs3: w3m works quite nice 
2011-12-31 23:32 <kristianpaul> pabs3: http://paste.debian.net/150648/ just in case
2011-12-31 23:50 <pabs3> thanks