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2011-12-18 01:34 <kristianpaul> Regarding Software Freedom: the caveat regarding this CPU is that it requires ARM-proprietary libraries for the 3D Graphics (as does virtually every single embedded SoC on the planet with the almost exclusive sole exception of the Ingenic jz4760
2011-12-18 01:34 <kristianpaul> he :)
2011-12-18 02:15 <pabs3> kristianpaul: context? 
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2011-12-18 02:41 <wpwrak> pabs3: i'm wondering if the answer to that is a string or a boolean :)
2011-12-18 03:34 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, GordonFreeman ? we got a freemangordon in #maemo-ssu :-D
2011-12-18 03:35 <GordonFreeman> well i reserve the right to choose another random nick at any random time ;>
2011-12-18 04:13 <GordonFreeman> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/151/20111218043745.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/20111218043755.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/20111218043841.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/20111218044031q.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/20111218043933.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/20111218044058.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/20111218044341.jpg/ http://imagesh
2011-12-18 04:13 <GordonFreeman> ack.us/photo/my-images/811/20111218044511.jpg/ 
2011-12-18 04:13 <GordonFreeman> pics of my hacked dvd drive
2011-12-18 04:20 <GordonFreeman> so, i have removed the unnecessary stuff from the mainboard with a screwdriver, then cut some track on pcb, and reconnected the motor controller ic with cat-5e wires, and added a potentiometer for analog input control for the ic, and it works off a single 12V supply because i added a 7805 stab ic to generate 5V for it
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2011-12-18 06:07 <wpwrak> GordonFreeman: if you can also figure out how to move the laser, and how to control it, then you'd have a nice photoplotter
2011-12-18 06:08 <wpwrak> we one discussed this as an approach for direct writing of chip structures. preferably with a blue ray, though, for the color of the laser (closer to the peak sensitivity of the photo emulsion)
2011-12-18 06:10 <wpwrak> the idea being that you have two dvd/blue ray devices in an X/Y arrangement, one moving the workpiece/table, the other moving the laser
2011-12-18 06:15 <GordonFreeman> i don't do lol
2011-12-18 06:16 <GordonFreeman> i can do photolithography btw
2011-12-18 06:16 <wpwrak> (lol) mmh ?
2011-12-18 06:17 <GordonFreeman> well, make a film, and shine lighht through it.
2011-12-18 06:18 <wpwrak> by the way, this has a serious background. have you seen this ? http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/papers/litho1.pdf
2011-12-18 06:18 <GordonFreeman> actually i'm building 3 axis cnc milling machine
2011-12-18 06:18 <wpwrak> with a direct laser writer, such a thing would be a lot easier
2011-12-18 06:18 <GordonFreeman> i don't think so
2011-12-18 06:19 <GordonFreeman> also it would take much more     time
2011-12-18 06:20 <wpwrak> of course. the greater the hack, the more time :-)
2011-12-18 06:20 <GordonFreeman> :) i like eficient hacks
2011-12-18 06:21 <wpwrak> it would still be very efficient. just a lot more magnificient ;-)
2011-12-18 06:21 <GordonFreeman> ok i have seen blu-ray laser videos on youtube
2011-12-18 06:21 <GordonFreeman> must be fun shooting through 10 dvd cases with it
2011-12-18 06:22 <wpwrak> ;-)
2011-12-18 06:22 <GordonFreeman> but i see no real use of it yet.... too little power. i cannot cut steel with it
2011-12-18 06:22 <GordonFreeman> nor pcbbbs
2011-12-18 06:23 <GordonFreeman> its only eye hazard
2011-12-18 06:24 <akiwiguy> Several of them concentrated on one spot could do some damage to a pcb methinks
2011-12-18 06:25 <GordonFreeman> no.
2011-12-18 06:26 <GordonFreeman> how would you combine the laser beams into one line ? that is preferrably the possible thinnest line
2011-12-18 06:27 <GordonFreeman> its silly to just aim $1000+ lasers onto an approximate spot
2011-12-18 06:28 <GordonFreeman> btw you need insane amount of powwer to vaporize the copper with any laser that will be $10k$+
2011-12-18 06:48 <wpwrak> you couldn't cut pcbs ... but you could make your own chips :)
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2011-12-18 13:46 <kristianpaul> pabs3: yes (boolen), sorry  source here http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/orders/
2011-12-18 13:46 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: quite boolean indeed ;)
2011-12-18 13:46 <kristianpaul> Just cath my atention they keep comparing with ingenic products in other pages...
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2011-12-18 14:23 <viric> wpwrak: do you still use kicad?
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2011-12-18 14:37 <wpwrak> viric: yes, of course. what else is there ? :)
2011-12-18 14:37 <viric> I'm updating the package in my distro
2011-12-18 14:37 <viric> to the sources of july 2011
2011-12-18 14:37 <viric> do you use the latest bazaar checkout?
2011-12-18 14:38 <wpwrak> no, we're at an older version. maybe a year old. we (qi-hw) have a bunch of patches that are essential for automating the workflow, and afaik they haven't been forward-ported yet
2011-12-18 14:39 <viric> ok
2011-12-18 14:41 <kristianpaul> argh, any idea how to hold well a wire, seems silicone is good in long term solution just look this gap between blue and purple cable http://kristianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/one_broke.jpg
2011-12-18 14:43 <kristianpaul> s/is/is not
2011-12-18 14:43 <qi-bot> kristianpaul meant: "argh, any idea how to hold well a wire, seems silicone is not good in long term solution just look this not gap between blue and purple cable http://kris nottianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/one_broke.jpg"
2011-12-18 14:44 <viric> hm I've a resistor brown/black/gold/gold
2011-12-18 14:44 <viric> what is that?
2011-12-18 14:45 <viric> 1ohm?
2011-12-18 14:46 <kristianpaul> yes
2011-12-18 14:47 <kristianpaul> well, almost still +/- 5% of tolerance
2011-12-18 14:47 <viric> aha
2011-12-18 14:54 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (pic) cephalopod son of The Blob ?
2011-12-18 14:56 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: horrible yes, but it was holding clock from sige receiver to milkymsit :,)
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2011-12-18 16:16 <blogic> wpwrak: ping
2011-12-18 16:16 <blogic> wpwrak: i am playing with kicad atm
2011-12-18 16:16 <wpwrak> *GONG*
2011-12-18 16:16 <blogic> i just opened a .lib file and saw its ascii
2011-12-18 16:16 <blogic> did you create you footprints with kicad ?
2011-12-18 16:16 <blogic> i am thinking that vim might be easier :D
2011-12-18 16:16 <wpwrak> no. for footprints, i use fped
2011-12-18 16:17 <blogic> fped ?
2011-12-18 16:17 <wpwrak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/
2011-12-18 16:17 <blogic> homebrew ?
2011-12-18 16:17 <wpwrak> quick intro is here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/fped/gui.html
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2011-12-18 16:17 <wpwrak> yup. all mine :)
2011-12-18 16:18 <blogic> ok ...
2011-12-18 16:18 <blogic> i see you had the same thought as me then
2011-12-18 16:19 <blogic> i was sitiing here thinking that the editor in kicad is weird
2011-12-18 16:19 <blogic> :D
2011-12-18 16:19 <wpwrak> the footprint editor is a joke. and not a good one.
2011-12-18 16:19 <blogic> .... debian wants to install 167MB of dependenices for gtk2 :D
2011-12-18 16:19 <blogic> ok
2011-12-18 16:19 <blogic> i thouhgt it was just me
2011-12-18 16:20 <wpwrak> here are some example of footprints we did with fped: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-modules.pdf
2011-12-18 16:20 <blogic> aweome
2011-12-18 16:20 <blogic> i need to make some weird sot89 packages and lqfp
2011-12-18 16:20 <blogic> *lqfp128
2011-12-18 16:21 <wpwrak> some of them are unfinished, e.g., have silk screen on pads and such
2011-12-18 16:21 <blogic> ok
2011-12-18 16:21 <blogic> well
2011-12-18 16:21 <blogic> the first bcps will be done on a cnc machine
2011-12-18 16:21 <blogic> so silkscreen is not needed just now
2011-12-18 16:21 <blogic> but once we produce i guess ......
2011-12-18 16:23 <wpwrak> here's a (small) set of footprints that should be good for production. some were actually used in production: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/kicad-libs/source/tree/master/modules
2011-12-18 16:23 <blogic> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kicad/file_formats
2011-12-18 16:23 <blogic> cool
2011-12-18 16:23 <wpwrak> we have a few more tested ones, scattered over various projects
2011-12-18 16:25 <blogic> ;)
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2011-12-18 16:54 <viric> hm
2011-12-18 16:54 <viric> do thermistors have colour codes?
2011-12-18 16:57 <kristianpaul> nope that i know, usually a datasheet
2011-12-18 16:59 <viric> hm mine has a black stripe, red stripe, and gold end
2011-12-18 17:01 <kristianpaul> may be is a thermocouple
2011-12-18 17:04 <viric> hm
2011-12-18 17:05 <viric> I don't think so
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2011-12-18 17:09 <viric> mh I've a SMD resistor that says 5603. Do you interpret 560K?
2011-12-18 17:11 <wpwrak> possibly. 4 digits is somewhat rare, particular in the kind of circuit you're looking at. i'd measure.
2011-12-18 17:11 <viric> but I'd have to desolder it
2011-12-18 17:12 <viric> or calculate the big mesh of resistors :)
2011-12-18 17:13 <GordonFreeman> matrix multiply it
2011-12-18 17:13 <viric> ?
2011-12-18 17:13 <GordonFreeman> you know, linear equations
2011-12-18 17:14 <viric> yes
2011-12-18 17:15 <wpwrak> just measure it. if it's > 100 kOhm, it's probably really ~560k. if it's more like 50 Ohm, then it's 56 plus a weird extra digit
2011-12-18 17:15 <GordonFreeman> 4 digit is not rare btw, i use them often, they have 1% or more precision in general
2011-12-18 17:15 <viric> It has some 10K resistors in parallel
2011-12-18 17:16 <viric> and measuring it, it says ~10K
2011-12-18 17:16 <wpwrak> GordonFreeman: yes, but that seems to be the kind of circuit where they design with +/- 50% ;-)
2011-12-18 17:16 <wpwrak> GordonFreeman: of course, they may still have simply find it cheaper to use a 560k 1% than a 560k 5%
2011-12-18 17:16 <wpwrak> s/find/found/
2011-12-18 17:16 <qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "GordonFreeman: of course, they may still have simply found it cheaper to use a 560k 1% than a 560k 5%"
2011-12-18 17:17 <GordonFreeman> i never bought resistors >10% precision in smd
2011-12-18 17:17 <viric> it's the circuit of a heater, that simply has the opam working somewhat as a trigger schmith, for an opto-triac to switch the heater on and off.
2011-12-18 17:17 <wpwrak> i said "design" not "implement" ;-)
2011-12-18 17:18 <GordonFreeman> i see, then why are you concerned about values if it needs +-50% precision?:
2011-12-18 17:18 <viric> well, the circuit fails :)
2011-12-18 17:18 <viric> I wonder what piece to blame.
2011-12-18 17:19 <wpwrak> 10k is a tricky result ;)
2011-12-18 17:19 <viric> :)
2011-12-18 17:20 <GordonFreeman> i can tell you a quickhack function for resistor and capacitor networks, it's called the "Replus" operator, R_e=1/((1/R1)+(1/R2))
2011-12-18 17:21 <viric> :)
2011-12-18 17:22 <viric> amazing hack
2011-12-18 17:23 <GordonFreeman> you can extend it to any number of resistors ;>
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2011-12-18 18:09 <blogic> wpwrak: kicad is not bad
2011-12-18 18:09 <blogic> wpwrak: just tsrated making some simple layouts for testing
2011-12-18 18:09 <blogic> small atmega32u2 based baord
2011-12-18 18:09 <blogic> not as comfortable as eagle
2011-12-18 18:09 <blogic> but i used to think that eagle was obscure
2011-12-18 18:09 <blogic> :)
2011-12-18 18:10 <wpwrak> what do you think is missing ?
2011-12-18 18:10 <wpwrak> i think any eda system is obscure. goes with the territory :)
2011-12-18 18:11 <blogic> nothing missing
2011-12-18 18:11 <blogic> just the flow is very different to others i used
2011-12-18 18:11 <wpwrak> ah yes
2011-12-18 18:11 <blogic> the whole sch->netist->pcb
2011-12-18 18:11 <blogic> and the component not being  linked to a footprint but the netlist bit doing the mapping
2011-12-18 18:11 <wpwrak> hehe :)
2011-12-18 18:12 <wpwrak> there are some quirks in selections, too
2011-12-18 18:12 <GordonFreeman> i am writing a pcb editor software for linux so i'd be interested in your problem
2011-12-18 18:13 * GordonFreeman is Dominating
2011-12-18 18:13 * GordonFreeman is Godlike
2011-12-18 18:16 <blogic> GordonFreeman: link ?
2011-12-18 18:16 <blogic> wpwrak: yes i found soem quirks already
2011-12-18 18:16 <blogic> i did however just open a bottle of red wine for inspirational purposes
2011-12-18 18:16 <blogic> :)
2011-12-18 18:16 <GordonFreeman> i'm writing the primitives rendering an core functions currently...
2011-12-18 18:17 <blogic> ok
2011-12-18 18:18 <wpwrak> it'll all make sense when you've finished that bottle :)
2011-12-18 18:19 <blogic> i know
2011-12-18 18:19 <GordonFreeman> wpwrak<< but if you have problems in general i may never let happen them in my software
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2011-12-18 18:20 <GordonFreeman> i design pcb-s too btw, so i'd like to make it comfortable 
2011-12-18 18:20 <GordonFreeman> i'm not telling secret if i say it will have fractal components
2011-12-18 18:21 <wpwrak> does the chip industry know about that yet ? :)
2011-12-18 18:21 <GordonFreeman> no <;
2011-12-18 18:22 <GordonFreeman> they'll have a concurrency
2011-12-18 18:27 <GordonFreeman> http://matrix.z-labor.com/tmp/C/sdltext_fps_d_asdf.c
2011-12-18 18:27 <GordonFreeman> some SDL example for linux
2011-12-18 18:27 <GordonFreeman> uses HRT
2011-12-18 18:38 <blogic> GordonFreeman: i see you dont like indenting :D
2011-12-18 18:40 <GordonFreeman> working on that ;>>
2011-12-18 18:40 <GordonFreeman> but i came from assembly
2011-12-18 18:40 <blogic> hehe
2011-12-18 18:41 <GordonFreeman> i use geany btw
2011-12-18 18:41 <GordonFreeman> recently changed the tab to spaces so it will be the same in mc f4 now
2011-12-18 18:41 <blogic> i use vi
2011-12-18 18:41 <blogic> :D
2011-12-18 18:42 <GordonFreeman> i have it because it's not user friendly
2011-12-18 18:42 <GordonFreeman> *hate
2011-12-18 18:42 <blogic> vi ?
2011-12-18 18:42 <GordonFreeman> yes
2011-12-18 18:42 <blogic> hehe
2011-12-18 18:42 <GordonFreeman> :quit to quit ?
2011-12-18 18:42 <GordonFreeman> lold
2011-12-18 18:42 <GordonFreeman> do not want
2011-12-18 18:43 <blogic> i find a mouse to be the most user unfriendly tool
2011-12-18 18:43 <blogic> apart from the fact that it is slow and kills productivity
2011-12-18 18:43 <GordonFreeman> sometimes
2011-12-18 18:43 <blogic> but then its everyones own personal preference i guess
2011-12-18 18:43 <GordonFreeman> but if you have to draw a pcb then it is more user-friendly than no mouse
2011-12-18 18:43 <GordonFreeman> feel free to give ideas for alternative input methods
2011-12-18 18:43 <blogic> hehe
2011-12-18 18:44 <GordonFreeman> blogic<< btw, come to #theblackmatrix and kick logic
2011-12-18 18:44 <GordonFreeman> you deserve that nick ;>>>
2011-12-18 18:53 <lars_> vim is power-user-friendly
2011-12-18 18:55 <GordonFreeman> power users like comfort if they do actual work i guess
2011-12-18 18:57 <viric> wpwrak: so, I tweaked the circuit so it works now. I put a 6K8 resistor in parallel with another to make the opam schmitt trigger switch at a more normal temperature. :)
2011-12-18 18:57 <blogic> lars_: +1
2011-12-18 18:57 <viric> but I'm quite rusted at all this
2011-12-18 18:58 <GordonFreeman> blogic<< f9 compile, f5 run, syntax highlight, automatic tooltips/code-completion rulz
2011-12-18 19:00 <blogic> GordonFreeman: no whitespace error highlighting :)
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