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2011-12-16 00:50 <qi-bot> Pete Ippel ‽: I gave @qihardware +K about Hacking on @klout http://t.co/b7v7ePcY ( 147478470400819200@hypermodern - 19s ago via Tweet Button )
2011-12-16 00:54 <qi-bot> Qi Hardware: RT @paul_keller: @fabricatorz @qihardware http://t.co/Miadj7wE… ( 147479463867850753@qihardware - 23s ago via HootSuite )
2011-12-16 00:54 <qi-bot> Qi Hardware: RT @paul_keller: @fabricatorz @qihardware http://t.co/ZK0cH1ih… ( 147479471312748545@qihardware - 21s ago via Ping.fm )
2011-12-16 00:54 <qi-bot> Qi Hardware: RT @hypermodern: I gave @qihardware +K about Hacking on @klout http://t.co/gZqMGer6… ( 147479518213443584@qihardware - 10s ago via Ping.fm )
2011-12-16 01:16 <wpwrak> can anyone decode this ?
2011-12-16 01:17 <wpwrak> has actually any information been conveyed ? or is this just psychodelic noise ?
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2011-12-16 05:41 <akiwiguy> Hello, all.
2011-12-16 05:41 DocScrutinizer [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] has joined #qi-hardware
2011-12-16 05:44 <roh> wolfspra1l: yeah. ive seen the hughski... my guess its a readymade case
2011-12-16 05:45 <roh> you can buy such cases in lots of formats. one just needs to choose one fitting and make sure the case stays available ;)
2011-12-16 06:20 jekhor [jekhor!~jek@vulture-nat-34.telecom.by] has joined #qi-hardware
2011-12-16 06:44 <kyak> wolfspra1l: i just googled for "linux educational games", most of them popped up
2011-12-16 07:05 <wolfspra1l> roh: any good url where to search/buy such cases?
2011-12-16 07:11 <Jay7> fosdem announced
2011-12-16 07:12 <Jay7> one should submit MM demo :)
2011-12-16 07:29 <roh> not really.. i know the bopla and such cases one can buy at local shops
2011-12-16 07:30 <roh> farnell has them
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2011-12-16 08:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: labsw/mech/Makefile: rm -f will do nicely, no need for rm -rf (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/0d62423
2011-12-16 08:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/case/: front panel modified for M1pre-rc4 (with raised USB) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/f1af1b8
2011-12-16 08:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/case/: added rear panel with JTAG hole (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/054df9f
2011-12-16 08:12 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo: also connect paths from gnuplot files (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/90254ef
2011-12-16 08:12 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/BUILD-CHEAT-SHEET: various updates (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/80f981e
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2011-12-16 08:51 <newcup> was there some kind of audio editor (wav) for ben? I can't find right now
2011-12-16 08:52 <xiangfu> newcup, sox.
2011-12-16 08:53 <newcup> xiangfu: ok, thanks! I'll have to check that out
2011-12-16 08:53 <xiangfu> newcup, there is no GUI wav editor.
2011-12-16 08:53 <newcup> yeah, I was thinking about something like audacity
2011-12-16 08:53 <newcup> but cli is good, too
2011-12-16 08:55 <newcup> I just recently got a korg monotron (a very tiny monophonic analog synthesizer), and a ben with audio editor could be a very nice companion for it
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2011-12-16 08:58 <xiangfu> this one : http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=korg+monotron&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14875173154310826435&sa=X&ei=qQfrTofoKI6hOq6pkboI&ved=0CEgQ8wIwAQ?
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2011-12-16 08:59 <newcup> xiangfu: yeah, exactly that
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2011-12-16 09:04 <xiangfu> newcup, what you do with your Korg monotron?
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2011-12-16 09:07 <newcup> xiangfu: well, I intend to make some music with it :)
2011-12-16 09:08 <newcup> it would be the ultimate portable synth-music studio setup, that and ben together :)
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2011-12-16 09:13 <xiangfu> newcup, cool. how you record your result? 
2011-12-16 09:13 <xiangfu> it's cool that you use ben play / edit the music. :)
2011-12-16 09:28 <kudkudyak> it would also be interesting to make a video showing how you use it (it would help people visualize themself using it and cool it could be :)))
2011-12-16 09:29 <kudkudyak> s/and cool/and how cool/
2011-12-16 09:29 <qi-bot> kudkudyak meant: "it would also be interesting to make a video showing how you use it (it would help people visualize themself using it and how cool it could be :)))"
2011-12-16 09:30 <newcup> well, I don't have a ben yet :P
2011-12-16 09:32 <newcup> and that monotron ribbon controller requires quite a lot of practice...
2011-12-16 09:32 <newcup> so don't hold your breath waiting for a video yet :)
2011-12-16 09:33 <kudkudyak> yes, i know :)
2011-12-16 09:34 <newcup> but anyway, korg has this monomania sound contest, it would be cool to win it with a video featuring a ben also
2011-12-16 09:48 newxterne452 [newxterne452!~newxterne@41.201.122.217] has joined #qi-hardware
2011-12-16 09:49 <newxterne452> hi
2011-12-16 09:52 deneme [deneme!~sahip@212.253.16.254] has joined #qi-hardware
2011-12-16 09:52 <deneme> did anyone elsehave issues with reflash constantly complaining about missing bc commands and unary operators?
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2011-12-16 10:02 <xiangfu> deneme, missing 'bc' after reflash?
2011-12-16 10:02 <xiangfu> newxterne452, Hi
2011-12-16 10:03 <deneme> nah, missing bc during reflash
2011-12-16 10:03 <deneme> eitherway, im doing an usbboot
2011-12-16 10:03 <deneme> ill let you know
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2011-12-16 10:04 <xiangfu> deneme, oh. just try to install the 'bc' 
2011-12-16 10:04 <xiangfu> deneme, reflash_ben.sh using 'bc' to calculate the progress bar. 
2011-12-16 10:04 <newxterne> hi
2011-12-16 10:05 <newxterne> xiangfu
2011-12-16 10:09 <deneme> well, I am half way through the usbboot
2011-12-16 10:09 <deneme> so :) might aswell finish it :)
2011-12-16 10:16 <deneme> so this takes 15 minutes huh
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2011-12-16 10:46 <deneme> and done
2011-12-16 10:46 <deneme> pretty cool
2011-12-16 10:47 <deneme> except it took a bit
2011-12-16 10:47 <deneme> anyway, I gotta go
2011-12-16 10:47 <deneme> see you in a couple of hours
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2011-12-16 12:38 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/case/README: mention that the IR receiver is blocked (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/3002866
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2011-12-16 13:38 <kristianpaul> cardboard may be usefull for prototyping, how do feel it holding whole PCB wpwrak ?
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2011-12-16 13:41 <wpwrak> the kind of cardboard is very weak. it's the hollow kind, used for packaging
2011-12-16 13:41 <wpwrak> specifically, this one is from the box of an electrical saw
2011-12-16 13:43 <kristianpaul> i see, better MDF then :)
2011-12-16 13:43 <wpwrak> those boxes easily get dents and can even rupture with rough handling. now, if the purpose of the cardboard is just to keep things from falling on your circuit, and the circuit stays in your lab, then a 100% cardboard case may be okay
2011-12-16 13:44 <wpwrak> particularly if it's like the M1, where some structural strength can be provided by the PCB. i.e., in a way, M1 has a skeleton and doesn't depend on the case to provide support
2011-12-16 13:44 <wpwrak> oh, MDF is a LOT more solid
2011-12-16 13:44 <kristianpaul> arghh spam
2011-12-16 13:44 <wpwrak> the difficulty there is to find it in thin enough sheets that you don't have to mill away a meter of stuff you don't care about
2011-12-16 13:45 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: indeed, o was thinking you can carry with you (M1 case)
2011-12-16 13:45 <wpwrak> (spam) just one :)
2011-12-16 13:45 <kristianpaul> hopefully
2011-12-16 13:46 <wpwrak> plywood may also be an option. that's harder than MDF. not so easy to machine, though
2011-12-16 13:47 <wpwrak> my problem is of course the mill size. mine does only 15x10 cm. so i can only do the small sides of M1, not the long sides or the top/bottom parts
2011-12-16 13:48 <kristianpaul> hmm, too small indeed
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2011-12-16 15:41 <deneme> testing voice
2011-12-16 15:41 <deneme> cool
2011-12-16 15:47 <DocScrutinizer51> moo
2011-12-16 15:48 <deneme> moo to you too
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2011-12-16 18:27 <deneme> ok well, I'll install jlime instead
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2011-12-16 18:54 <deneme> man... jlime is so much slower...
2011-12-16 18:54 <wpwrak> ah, interesting
2011-12-16 18:55 <wpwrak> first time i hear someone complain about that. anything specific ?
2011-12-16 18:55 <deneme> oh, the boot time, actually is what has grabbed my attention the most
2011-12-16 18:55 <deneme> it is twice or thrice as long, I think
2011-12-16 18:55 <wpwrak> ah :)
2011-12-16 18:55 <deneme> the rest I didnt notice much
2011-12-16 18:56 <wpwrak> i guess nobody bothered to optimize it lately. while quite a lot of effort went into making openwrt boot faster.
2011-12-16 18:56 <deneme> hmm...
2011-12-16 18:57 * krispaul pokes zrafa 
2011-12-16 18:57 <wpwrak> maybe you should post this to the list. it'll pis off the jlime folks and then they'll hack until they beat openwrt ;-)
2011-12-16 18:57 <wpwrak> ah, he's here. even better ;-)
2011-12-16 18:57 <deneme> heh
2011-12-16 18:57 <deneme> I am just expermimenting as of now
2011-12-16 18:57 <deneme> it hasnt been more than a couple of hours since I got my ben
2011-12-16 18:58 <krispaul> nice ! :)
2011-12-16 18:58 <krispaul> wellcome
2011-12-16 18:58 <deneme> thanks ! :)
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2011-12-16 18:59 <krispaul> Artyom: hi !
2011-12-16 19:00 <Artyom> hi Kristianpaul!  :)
2011-12-16 19:02 <krispaul> Artyom: do you have the algorith to  get correlation peak treshold?
2011-12-16 19:03 <krispaul> Artyom: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/GPS_Free_Stack/Notes_About_Namuru#Sampling
2011-12-16 19:03 <krispaul> above resigester, is it correct?
2011-12-16 19:03 <Artyom> Ehm, I did it empirically... You can also try to calculate it.
2011-12-16 19:05 <krispaul> hmm, i prefer check the peak for my self, so far plotting was a little ramdon
2011-12-16 19:09 <Artyom> When I was chosing a threshold I ploted correlators output. For a satellite that is in view you can clearly see a peak. It will be at least two times higher than the average level.
2011-12-16 19:09 <krispaul> ok
2011-12-16 19:10 <Artyom> Whem I say I ploted correlators output I mean that I ploted (Ie^2+Qe^2), (Ip^2+Qp^2) and (Il^2+Qp^2)
2011-12-16 19:11 <krispaul> ahh, good point i tought was raw output :)
2011-12-16 19:11 <Artyom> sorry last brakets must be (Il^2+Ql^2)
2011-12-16 19:12 <Artyom> Actually raw output can also be good. But It's better to use these formulas.
2011-12-16 19:12 <krispaul> good, i-ll start with the measurements today
2011-12-16 19:12 <krispaul> I also want to askm what atenna type are you using?
2011-12-16 19:12 <Artyom> From theoretical point of view this means that you plot energy in early, prompt and late channels
2011-12-16 19:13 <Artyom> One more thing
2011-12-16 19:13 <krispaul> yes
2011-12-16 19:15 <deneme> whats the rc.conf of jlime?
2011-12-16 19:15 <Artyom> if you use half chip step during acquisition then you can use only prompt channel output. It's easier. (But there are some drawbacks)
2011-12-16 19:16 <Artyom> BTW what is your correlator clock frequency? And what is your MM1 SoC clock?
2011-12-16 19:17 <deneme> deneme: found it
2011-12-16 19:17 <krispaul> Artyom: 16.384 Mhz for correlator and MM1 SoC clokc is 16.384 Mhz x 4
2011-12-16 19:18 <Artyom> And why don't you use the same clock for both?
2011-12-16 19:18 <krispaul> well i could too
2011-12-16 19:18 <krispaul> *g*
2011-12-16 19:19 <krispaul> I just made use of accum_sample_enable
2011-12-16 19:20 <krispaul> Artyom: i do
2011-12-16 19:20 <krispaul> i mean just the MM1 SoC have a DCM
2011-12-16 19:21 <Artyom> yes, I understand it. So MM1 runs with the clock 4 x 16.384
2011-12-16 19:22 <krispaul> but yes i can i ran trouble i'll same clock for erything
2011-12-16 19:22 <Artyom> But I still don't understand which clock goes to namuru? 16.384 or 4 x 16.384?
2011-12-16 19:22 <krispaul> 4 x 16.384
2011-12-16 19:22 <Artyom> ok
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2011-12-16 19:23 <Artyom> Then there is mistake in TIC_periode calculation
2011-12-16 19:27 <krispaul> hmm
2011-12-16 19:30 <krispaul> from the namuru upstream or you mean in my port?
2011-12-16 19:32 <Artyom> one more note: the procedure that is described on the page that you have mentioned is correct. But for the first experiments I suggest to use delay_step=0.5chip; Doppler_step=500Hz (bigger steps are possible but they result in additional losts in SNR and it's better to play with these values later). Record output from all 6 correlators (Ie, Qe, Ip, Qp, Il, Ql). After you record all values,...
2011-12-16 19:32 <Artyom> ...you can plot (Ie^2+Qe^2), (Ip^2+Qp^2), (Il^2+Ql^2). After you will see a peak you can try to plot only (Ip^2+Qp^2). It's better to have more data when you start experimenting.
2011-12-16 19:34 <Artyom> I read on the page "ACCUM_INT period = (accum_divide + 1) / 16.384MHz For 0.5 ms accumulator interrupt accum_divide = 16.384x10^6 * 0.0005 - 1 accum_divide = 0x1FFF " - but if you use namuru clock 4 x 16.384 then you have to use this value it TIC_periode calculation
2011-12-16 19:36 <krispaul> ah yes, goot spot, at the time i wrote that correlator was using separate clock..
2011-12-16 19:36 <krispaul> that, ..
2011-12-16 19:36 <Artyom> I use different antennas: but even the cheapest work fine
2011-12-16 19:39 <krispaul> good, i was bit worried about gain
2011-12-16 19:40 <krispaul> so... how is your milkymist hacking going so far? :)
2011-12-16 19:40 <Artyom> well, very exciting ;)
2011-12-16 19:41 <Artyom> The bad thing that port that I use doesn't include debugging monitor (actually there is no space for it in spartan3e500)
2011-12-16 19:42 <Artyom> I can read correlators output, I can set accum_int and TIC period
2011-12-16 19:42 <krispaul> hmm, seems you may need a milkymist one soon ;-)
2011-12-16 19:43 <Artyom> Last time I played with it I tried to run my ARM-program. 
2011-12-16 19:43 <Artyom> But I faced couple of problems problem: 
2011-12-16 19:44 <Artyom> At first I tried to use polling and to check the state of the input pin that I have connected to accum_int
2011-12-16 19:45 <Artyom> But it didn't work in while-loop (like in my ARM-program)
2011-12-16 19:45 <Artyom> Then I tried to check status-regiter
2011-12-16 19:46 <Artyom> It worked better but not like I have expected ;)
2011-12-16 19:46 <Artyom> For example printf-function stopped to work after outputting some amount of data
2011-12-16 19:47 <krispaul> just stopeed thats odd
2011-12-16 19:48 <krispaul> i know it make fail to display data sometimes but thats new to me
2011-12-16 19:48 <krispaul> s/make/may
2011-12-16 19:48 <qi-bot> krispaul meant: "i know it may fail to display data sometimes but thats new to me"
2011-12-16 19:49 <Artyom> But without using printf-function the program worked incorrectly (it resarted acquisition very often). According to algorithm it should restart every 10 seconds but in fact it restarted 10 or more times faster. So it didn't work correctly but I couldn't check what was wrong because nor printf nor debug is working ;)
2011-12-16 19:50 <krispaul> milkymist libc is not the best lib around, actually i guess rtems as lib is much better tought :)
2011-12-16 19:51 <Artyom> if you are interested I can send you the code. You will have to change some constants like accum_int periode, carrier_freq and so on...
2011-12-16 19:51 <krispaul> yes sure
2011-12-16 19:51 <Artyom> and the correlator is still in vhdl ;)
2011-12-16 19:51 <krispaul> erghh yes
2011-12-16 19:52 <krispaul> at least to see if it runs and non stop
2011-12-16 19:53 <Artyom> I don't think that it's a big problem because TDC-port also mix verilog with vhdl
2011-12-16 19:53 <Artyom> ;)
2011-12-16 19:54 <krispaul> I heard from the same devel of that code (tdc) that was not a good pratice... so :)
2011-12-16 19:54 <krispaul> btw a code sample from delay is in tdc-core as well 
2011-12-16 19:54 <krispaul> http://www.ohwr.org/projects/tdc-core/repository/revisions/master/entry/demo/software/demo/udelay.c
2011-12-16 19:55 <zrafa> wpwrak: krispaul deneme : what is happening?.. complains go into the complain book :)
2011-12-16 19:56 <wpwrak> zrafa: deneme has discovered that jlime boot time sucks :)
2011-12-16 19:56 <Artyom> no complains: only facts ;)
2011-12-16 19:56 <zrafa> deneme: first boot time could be longer (it generates ssh keys, etc)
2011-12-16 19:56 <krispaul> i'm not complaning of something i dont use :D,
2011-12-16 19:56 <wpwrak> ah, first boot ! interesting
2011-12-16 19:56 <krispaul> ah yes thats truth
2011-12-16 19:56 <deneme> im just chillin. seing which apps I can port and whatnot. and its not necessarily the 1st boot only, the avg case is still considerably longer
2011-12-16 19:56 <zrafa> deneme: which jlime version?
2011-12-16 19:57 <krispaul> wpwrak: jlime/oe upstream version even have a first time run wizard prety nice :) well when i tested time ago
2011-12-16 19:58 <deneme> zrafa: 13 nov 2010
2011-12-16 19:58 <zrafa> deneme: wpwrak : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKAa_JbEokk
2011-12-16 19:58 <deneme> zrafa: I didnt even check for newer versions yet :D
2011-12-16 19:58 <zrafa> deneme: wpwrak : from "starting kernel until it is finished: 13 seconds"
2011-12-16 19:59 <krispaul> Artyom: or you can upload it somwhere not necesary mail, if you feel okay with that and may be somedoy else want to sniff it :)
2011-12-16 19:59 <zrafa> deneme: wpwrak : so if it is 3 times openwrt.. wow.. I did not know openwrt boots in 4 seconds
2011-12-16 19:59 <zrafa> great!
2011-12-16 19:59 <krispaul> *g*
2011-12-16 20:00 <Artyom> Kristianpaul: no problem, I will place it on google code in couple of days
2011-12-16 20:00 <wpwrak> dunno. haven't recently updated anything. i tend to keep my boxes stable for a very long time
2011-12-16 20:01 <krispaul> good no hurry then
2011-12-16 20:01 <deneme> zrafa: I didnt measure it by a stopwatch you know... It sure felt much longer. I will try the most recent build once I sort my stuff out
2011-12-16 20:01 <krispaul> zrafa: from video seems you need also add the fix to avoid power on button delay
2011-12-16 20:02 <zrafa> that video is old. After jlime stuff for nn were pushed in OE
2011-12-16 20:02 <krispaul> that will add a faster boot feeling to jlime too
2011-12-16 20:02 <krispaul> yes i remenber..
2011-12-16 20:02 <zrafa> krispaul: I do not know anything facts after that :)
2011-12-16 20:03 <krispaul> wpwrak: linux 2.4 ? ;)
2011-12-16 20:03 <zrafa> krispaul: life is keeping me outside of jlime
2011-12-16 20:04 <zrafa> deneme: you can build the version at youtube video via OE
2011-12-16 20:04 <deneme> what's OE short for?
2011-12-16 20:05 <zrafa> deneme: sorry. OpenEmbedded
2011-12-16 20:05 <deneme> zrafa: I see
2011-12-16 20:07 <krispaul> Artyom: ha, ch_time is long i doubt how well supported is that on mm soc libc..
2011-12-16 20:08 <deneme> mm is milkymist?
2011-12-16 20:08 <krispaul> yes
2011-12-16 20:08 <deneme> kay
2011-12-16 20:08 <krispaul> for short..
2011-12-16 20:08 <deneme> yeah yeah
2011-12-16 20:09 <Artyom> Kristianpaul: I didn't notice any problems with short or int numbers and arithmetic operations with them
2011-12-16 20:10 <krispaul> hmm, then problem somwhere else.. just making a quick guess
2011-12-16 20:12 <Artyom> Kristianpaul: time to sleep, bye! :)
2011-12-16 20:13 <krispaul> bye
2011-12-16 20:13 <krispaul> thanks as always :)
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2011-12-16 20:45 <whitequark> hm
2011-12-16 20:45 <whitequark> maybe, someone possibly remembers a name of physical effect
2011-12-16 20:46 <whitequark> where contours of physical objects were manifesting themselves on a photo plate
2011-12-16 20:47 <whitequark> iirc it begins with "K"
2011-12-16 20:47 <whitequark> and it has probably involved a high voltage source
2011-12-16 20:50 <whitequark> Kirlian effect.
2011-12-16 20:51 <whitequark> a friend wanted to reverse-engineer some board, and that's what came into my mind when he described his requirements
2011-12-16 20:55 <deneme> :) good thing u knew
2011-12-16 20:55 <deneme> because I had no diea 
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2011-12-16 22:20 <deneme> gnight guys
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