2011-12-05 00:02 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 00:16 noxchat_tester joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 00:50 wej joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 01:08 xiangfu joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 01:19 aw_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 01:19 aw joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 01:29 freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 01:31 Openfree` joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 01:38 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 01:41 wolfspra1l joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 02:22 niniadcobre joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 02:25 wolfspraul: Hi, I'm Miriam, Rafa's gf. You will send a nn to wpwrak these days that is for me, so I will like to know how to pay for it 2011-12-05 02:25 hi all 2011-12-05 02:25 hey, nice 2011-12-05 02:25 :-) 2011-12-05 02:26 niniadcobre: welcome here and happy to see you! 2011-12-05 02:26 :-) hehe thanks 2011-12-05 02:26 how is everything? 2011-12-05 02:26 are you still in beautiful Buenos Aires? 2011-12-05 02:26 I lost track, I thought there was a move somewhere... 2011-12-05 02:27 wolfspraul: pretty good, needing a nn because rafa is always breaking the fw 2011-12-05 02:27 niniadcobre: please shoot me a short mail to wolfgang@sharism.cc 2011-12-05 02:27 wolfspraul: yeah, we move like 1400km away from bs as 2011-12-05 02:27 I will reply with a pay link, I suggest credit card (visa or mastercard). is that ok? 2011-12-05 02:27 paypal or bitcoins also ok 2011-12-05 02:27 yes, perfect 2011-12-05 02:27 visa/master any of them 2011-12-05 02:27 if you want to try bitcoins, here you can spend some! :-) 2011-12-05 02:28 hehe, no I don't have, so I will try the old methods (crdit card :P) 2011-12-05 02:29 sure 2011-12-05 02:31 hi miriam :) 2011-12-05 02:32 hi :) kristianpaul 2011-12-05 02:33 yeah :-) niniadcobre - stop by here more :-) 2011-12-05 02:34 what are you doing nowadays? 2011-12-05 02:34 any exciting ideas for new computing devices? 2011-12-05 02:36 not really, I start to teach at university this year (aside my other 8hs job) so that kept me quite busy 2011-12-05 02:38 but I hope to start playing a bit with mi new nn :-) 2011-12-05 02:38 and teach somethign about it too 2011-12-05 02:39 niniadcobre: what do you teach? 2011-12-05 02:40 it is a very basic class about computer architecture, os, networking and security 2011-12-05 02:41 hey, use Milkymist! 2011-12-05 02:41 seriously :-) 2011-12-05 02:41 a short class about pretty much everything :) 2011-12-05 02:41 hehehe yeah.... 2011-12-05 02:41 at least they learn about a free architecture all the way into the SoC, with 'interesting' problems left open for the students :-) 2011-12-05 02:42 unlike the other boring architectures, where everything just works - bah! 2011-12-05 02:42 seriously, you interested? 2011-12-05 02:42 or you don't have such flexibility? 2011-12-05 02:42 probably also study material missing... 2011-12-05 02:42 wolfspraul: and where would be the angle for the government ? how well do you bribe ? :) 2011-12-05 02:42 not at all 2011-12-05 02:42 and yes, that's indeed the first question that comes up in such proposals 2011-12-05 02:42 from the professors 2011-12-05 02:42 "how much money do I get?" 2011-12-05 02:43 milkymist really have all you need for a computer arch os and networking class :) 2011-12-05 02:43 ;-) 2011-12-05 02:43 that's why I don't go there anymore... 2011-12-05 02:43 academia is really corrupt imho 2011-12-05 02:43 maybe a few idealist holdouts like Miriam :-) 2011-12-05 02:43 wolfspraul: it's chronically underfunded. that's what you get then 2011-12-05 02:43 that may well be 2011-12-05 02:44 anyway, niniadcobre maybe you think about Milkymist 2011-12-05 02:44 probably study material missing though 2011-12-05 02:44 but that's something that is good work for us to add 2011-12-05 02:44 i mean in the source code/documentation avaliable 2011-12-05 02:45 study material, very important indeed 2011-12-05 02:45 .. 2011-12-05 02:46 I would love to, but this is a pretty basic basic class (not grade career) and they do not have any background, so I need to keep it reeeeeeeealllly simple 2011-12-05 02:46 ah wai, no at all, check this niniadcobre http://lekernel.net/blog/2011/10/soc-milkymist-le-developpement-logiciel-en-pratique/ 2011-12-05 02:50 niniadcobre: what is not simple about Milkymist? 2011-12-05 02:50 that sound like a really good idea for the professor working in embedded class 2011-12-05 02:53 wolfspraul: but not mine, they asked me (career's director) to teach them how the things works but working with the tools they use every day 2011-12-05 02:53 that would be excel and flash ? :) 2011-12-05 02:54 they really don't know nothing about systems, and I need to merge everything in 60hs :) 2011-12-05 02:54 html 2011-12-05 02:54 ... on the university's latest pentium I 2011-12-05 02:54 wpwrak: hahaha true... we are in a really bad situation 2011-12-05 02:54 niniadcobre: yes but still I think the Milkymist is in fact a super simple good study object 2011-12-05 02:55 although I am not sure what you mean with 'systems' 2011-12-05 02:55 anyway, it's just an idea 2011-12-05 02:55 if you have feedback what kind of study material one might need in such a case, let us know 2011-12-05 02:55 you work with the students, you have a lot of valuable insights 2011-12-05 02:56 and sure, I have no illusions about what they are learning, how much, how talented they are, what they will really do with that knowledge in life later, and so on 2011-12-05 02:56 but I'm an eternal optimistc 2011-12-05 02:56 you are teaching the future nobel laureates there! 2011-12-05 02:57 wolfspraul: the first problem is that M1 is about USD 800 too expensive for that university. unless, of course, you manage to bribe some politicians in some way 2011-12-05 02:57 we haven't even talked about money yet, I am sure we find cheap equipment to support any serious academic effort 2011-12-05 02:58 emphasis on 'serious' 2011-12-05 02:58 and yes, indeed I am in no need to compete with large corps about who has the most efficient and untracable bribing 2011-12-05 02:58 the professors need to break through that, or students who don't even go study or drop out 2011-12-05 02:59 and the latest statement of our dear president was that she didn't wish "not even a single nail" to be imported. so good luck with selling that stuff made in evil asia :) 2011-12-05 02:59 some always notice last :-) 2011-12-05 02:59 ha ha. politics. 2011-12-05 02:59 that's the woman who surrounds herself with tons of imported luxury goods, no? 2011-12-05 02:59 wolfspraul: the same... 2011-12-05 03:00 they're not strictly imported .. it's personal belongings she brings home from her shopping trips in paris and such 2011-12-05 03:00 definitely not nails though 2011-12-05 03:01 but maybe 200 USD nail polish 2011-12-05 03:01 you just misunderstood this 'not a single nail' message 2011-12-05 03:01 that was a reminder to herself 2011-12-05 03:01 ;-) 2011-12-05 03:02 only fur, shoes, boats, jets, cosmetics, watches, ... 2011-12-05 03:02 BUT NOT A SINGLE NAIL! 2011-12-05 03:02 :-) 2011-12-05 03:06 de-industrialization is actually part of the plan 2011-12-05 03:06 populism thrives best if the people are uneducated and depend on the government for subsistence 2011-12-05 03:08 in my next life I go into politics and have some fun 2011-12-05 03:09 what I read about the Argentine government and cabinet sometimes is the kind of stories that makes me want to participate :-) 2011-12-05 03:09 all heights and depths of real life are there :-) 2011-12-05 03:09 ;-)) 2011-12-05 03:09 don't you agree? :-) 2011-12-05 03:10 it's like a drama, like opera 2011-12-05 03:10 heh. and i thought politicians are there to entertain us. after all they do a really good show and not much proper work 2011-12-05 03:10 still singing an aria with knife in the chest 2011-12-05 03:10 like a soap opera, ack. 2011-12-05 03:11 keine menschliche schwaeche war ihnen fremd... 2011-12-05 03:11 great stuff 2011-12-05 03:11 almost as good as Milkymist :-) 2011-12-05 03:24 i think we need to look for more classical examples. nero may not be a bad one. 2011-12-05 03:24 statemanship, sanity, ... it all fits 2011-12-05 05:11 kyak joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 05:33 DocScrutinizer joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 05:35 aw joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 05:35 aw_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 05:59 whitequark joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 06:14 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 06:24 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 06:37 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 06:47 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 06:48 wow this is an impressive chart http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support 2011-12-05 06:51 hrhr.. and now think there openmoko would be in that 2011-12-05 06:51 or the nn 2011-12-05 06:59 the problem is that hardware prices are collapsing, and will continue to do so 2011-12-05 06:59 so making a 30 USD product last 3 years instead of 1 may not be worth it 2011-12-05 06:59 interesting developments for sure 2011-12-05 07:05 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 07:06 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 07:57 interesting chart indeed 2011-12-05 07:58 one day i will write a book about why most management teams suck and actively prevent developer crowds fro being productive and pushing updated 2011-12-05 07:59 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 07:59 not sure whether it's that easy 2011-12-05 08:02 I think the android update and malware situation was obvious from the beginning, for everyone 2011-12-05 08:04 hmmm 2011-12-05 08:04 well i am yet to find able managers 2011-12-05 08:04 every company i worked at so far suffred similar problems 2011-12-05 08:05 maybe a lot of customers just don't care, they use their phone to make phone calls, and replace it when they run into any problem 2011-12-05 08:05 one of the biggest problems being that most companyies expect their devs to do QA themselves 2011-12-05 08:05 wolfspraul: that is infact the case 2011-12-05 08:05 mobile market is a special case i guess 2011-12-05 08:13 does anyone know who of the android vendors is the most "open"? 2011-12-05 08:13 afaik in this case it's not a religious choice anymore: if they are, you don't get stuck with an outdated kernel due to blobs 2011-12-05 08:16 hard to say, maybe you should follow the cyanogen project if you are not doing that yet 2011-12-05 08:16 wolfspraul: htc stopped lockng the bootloaders 2011-12-05 08:16 it looks like the phones sold directly by Google are pretty good 2011-12-05 08:16 making cyanogenmod easy to install 2011-12-05 08:17 yes but as the article points out the entire android ecosystem is trapped with the update situation 2011-12-05 08:18 LunaVorax_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 08:22 not sure whether they can or even want to change that, seems everybody who participates is satisfied with their Android business 2011-12-05 08:29 stefan_schmidt joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 08:44 well, I never actually used any android stuff for more than 10 minutes (total in my life) 2011-12-05 08:44 but I did used Apple stuff, and I dislike it 2011-12-05 08:44 and you don't have any other viable options actually 2011-12-05 08:44 i switched to android about 1 year ago 2011-12-05 08:44 because I definitely need at least web and gps/maps 2011-12-05 08:45 and the only way you can get that in one device is buying a smartphone 2011-12-05 08:45 now, after 1 year i must say i dont use the features, its big and the battery is always empty 2011-12-05 08:45 i have been thinking about switching back to a "dumbphone" 2011-12-05 08:45 the battery stuff, yes, but a friend with android says that after installing cyanogen it's 2 days with low to moderate usage 2011-12-05 08:45 fine for me 2011-12-05 08:46 I need the features, and you have plenty of devices on market. Big? select the one you like more 2011-12-05 08:46 dumbphones are actually too dumb. I have been frequently caught when I needed to use email 2011-12-05 08:46 or, worse, gps 2011-12-05 08:47 ok 2011-12-05 08:47 i live in a urban area so i need no gps 2011-12-05 08:47 and having a 12 hour workday i am happy when i get no mails :) 2011-12-05 08:48 what i will miss is maps 2011-12-05 08:48 the only real feature i ever found in a smartphone that is f use to me 2011-12-05 08:48 but then i am a late adopter anyhow :D 2011-12-05 08:50 of course I live in urban area too 2011-12-05 08:50 that's the very reason I need gps 2011-12-05 08:50 ah, wait 2011-12-05 08:50 what country do you live in? 2011-12-05 08:50 blogic: I don't think you are a late adopter, don't fall for the marketing propaganda of some desperate high-tech shops :-) 2011-12-05 08:50 they are under sales pressure, and try to make everybody feel late, that's all 2011-12-05 08:51 wolfspraul: :) 2011-12-05 08:51 wolfspraul: hamburg/germany 2011-12-05 08:51 it always amazed me how much they can talk people into a 5-year old computer being 'outdated', simply by constantly raising expectations on which features a 'not-outdated' computer must have 2011-12-05 08:51 hilarious to watch 2011-12-05 08:51 wolfspraul: i am stuck with vim + xterm ;) 2011-12-05 08:51 meanwhile we pay super high premiums for old cheese 2011-12-05 08:51 old wine 2011-12-05 08:52 as long as it is red wine i am ok with paying good money for good wine 2011-12-05 08:52 ;) 2011-12-05 08:52 blogic: ah. well, maybe you have better topological sense than me 2011-12-05 08:52 blogic: because I live in Moscow, and it is... well, F*CKING BIG, and it is NOT easy to navigate in 2011-12-05 08:53 to the point I feel better walking without a map because I don't then know that I am already lost 2011-12-05 08:53 (the "already lost" part does not depend a lot on the time in walk, actually.) 2011-12-05 08:53 hahaha 2011-12-05 08:55 on the other hand, when I have a choice of two differnt roads, of which one is right, I *constantly* select the wrong one 2011-12-05 08:55 still, gps helps 2011-12-05 08:55 panda|x201 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 09:14 LunaVorax_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 09:19 Ayla joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 10:03 wolfspra1l joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 10:23 LunaVorax_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 10:44 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 10:45 newcup joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 10:52 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 10:56 LunaVorax joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 10:59 !stat 2011-12-05 10:59 kyak: 52020 words, 302589 letters, 5632 lines, 9.24 words/line, 24 actions, 1033 smilies, 957 questions, 74 joins, 0 kicks, 0 modes, 0 nicks, 0 topics, time wasted: 42 weeks 21 hours 26 minutes , 75.40 idle-factor. 2011-12-05 10:59 !top10 2011-12-05 10:59 Top10(words): 1. wpwrak(232923) 2. wolfsprau(156105) 3. kristianpaul(70564) 4. kyak(52021) 5. DocScrutinizer(49656) 6. roh(34259) 7. wolfspraul(31442) 8. tuxbrain(31082) 9. whitequark(28673) 10. dvdk(28083) 2011-12-05 11:04 !topwords #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:04 Most used words in #qi-hardware: 1. about (15) 2. wolfspraul: (13) 3. don't (12) 4. really (8) 5. that's (7) 6. android (7) 7. think (6) 8. there (6) 9. milkymist (6) 10. study (6) 2011-12-05 11:06 "wolfspraul: don't really think that's about android. there, study milkymist !" 2011-12-05 11:07 haha 2011-12-05 11:07 brilliant :) 2011-12-05 11:11 yeah, too brilliant for me :-) what's the point? 2011-12-05 11:11 that's in reference to the Android update analysis? 2011-12-05 11:16 in reference to the word frequency qi-bot just reported 2011-12-05 11:17 huh, I'm 9th 2011-12-05 11:18 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:18 that's unexpected 2011-12-05 11:18 !stat 2011-12-05 11:18 whitequark: 28679 words, 161160 letters, 2632 lines, 10.90 words/line, 29 actions, 73 smilies, 405 questions, 74 joins, 0 kicks, 0 modes, 6 nicks, 0 topics, time wasted: 30 weeks 3 days 18 hours 16 minutes , 116.95 idle-factor. 2011-12-05 11:20 it should also let you chose a cur-off point. e.g., "this year" or "last two months" 2011-12-05 11:23 jivs joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:24 it can do it for a day 2011-12-05 11:24 !ttop10 2011-12-05 11:24 Today's Top10(words): 1. wolfspraul(748) 2. whitequark(281) 3. niniadcobre(246) 4. blogic(215) 5. wpwrak(214) 6. wolfsprau(42) 7. roh(41) 8. kristianpaul(41) 9. kyak(15) 2011-12-05 11:33 mstevens joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:43 xiangfu joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:44 aw_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:44 aw joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:53 xiangfu joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:53 xiangfu joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 11:54 how much would it cost to implement an accelerated video driver for JZ4750L? 2011-12-05 11:56 months 2011-12-05 11:57 wejp joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 12:03 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 12:17 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 12:22 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 12:23 wolfspra1l joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 12:24 whitequark: let's write an accelerated video driver for Milkymist instead :-) 2011-12-05 12:30 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 12:59 Ayla, wolfspraul: I don't need that myself 2011-12-05 12:59 a friend of mine wants that and he's going to pay... some amount 2011-12-05 13:10 custom driver development is usually very expensive :) 2011-12-05 13:12 antoniodariush joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 13:15 kyak: I think so 2011-12-05 13:26 jivs joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 13:29 LunaVorax joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 13:41 urandom__ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 13:48 LunaVorax joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 14:11 Textmode joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 14:15 panda|x201 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 14:23 arti joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 14:24 antoniodariush joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 15:44 emeb joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 15:59 ab5tract joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 16:14 arti joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 16:18 arti left #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 16:28 kristoffer joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 16:39 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 16:42 mstevens joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 16:58 LunaVorax joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 17:12 kuribas joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 17:42 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 18:12 gnutoo_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 18:22 whitequark: for the driver... couldn't it be based on some dingoo code? 2011-12-05 18:32 * DocScrutinizer feels like a word 2011-12-05 18:33 :) 2011-12-05 18:34 I thought the chips of the nanonote and the dingoo were similar. and I imagine the dingoo has an open source accelerated driver 2011-12-05 18:34 but it may be only fantasy. 2011-12-05 18:39 LunaVorax joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 18:44 viric: coult be fantasy, is not a game focused device? 2011-12-05 18:45 DocScrutinizer: word? 2011-12-05 18:45 Where is your sentence? :-) 2011-12-05 18:46 yes, game focused 2011-12-05 18:46 "CPU: 400MHz Jz4740 Revised Processor and Motherboard" 2011-12-05 18:47 that's very different from the nanonote? 2011-12-05 18:49 ah no 2011-12-05 18:49 CPU Ingenic JZ4732 2011-12-05 18:49 well, there are different dingoos around I think 2011-12-05 18:51 [2011-12-05 11:59:36] Top10(words): 1. wpwrak(232923) 2. wolfsprau(156105) 3. kristianpaul(70564) 4. kyak(52021) 5. DocScrutinizer(49656) 2011-12-05 18:51 lol 2011-12-05 18:51 got it ;) 2011-12-05 18:52 this is how much each talked, or how much people requested them? 2011-12-05 18:52 I guess it's a completely bogus value anyway 2011-12-05 19:04 kilae joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 19:18 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 19:28 kilae_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 19:28 LunaVorax_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 19:29 viric: the "real" Dingoo is the A320 2011-12-05 19:29 since that became a success various unrelated devices have received similar names 2011-12-05 19:29 ah ok 2011-12-05 19:30 we don't have video acceleration on the Dingoo yet, not under Linux anyway 2011-12-05 19:30 also, the IPU in the 4750 is more advanced than the one in the 4740 2011-12-05 19:31 I did talk to one of the V4L developers and V4L is the right API to add IPU support to 2011-12-05 19:33 there is code from Ingenic to use MXU (SIMD) and I think also the IPU from MPlayer 2011-12-05 19:33 but like most Ingenic code, while it gets the job done, it doesn't stick to any kind of standard interface 2011-12-05 19:33 so it has zero chance of being accepted upstream 2011-12-05 19:36 ok clea 2011-12-05 19:36 clear 2011-12-05 19:37 well 2011-12-05 19:37 it's JZ4750L 2011-12-05 19:37 it is _not_ JZ4750 2011-12-05 19:37 mstevens joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 19:37 dvdk did some work to get accelerated playback on the NN 2011-12-05 19:37 that somehow is a huge difference 2011-12-05 19:37 yes sure. 2011-12-05 19:37 very good work. 2011-12-05 19:37 it isn't related to JZ4720/4740 either 2011-12-05 19:37 Ingenic has a really... ingenious naming scheme 2011-12-05 19:38 yeah, causing lots of confusion 2011-12-05 19:38 they also have 4750D 2011-12-05 19:38 noone here has friends at Ingenic? 2011-12-05 19:38 I don't quite get how different letters in same family can be more different than different families 2011-12-05 19:38 that's one huge WTF 2011-12-05 19:39 you don't have any docs on SIMD, too 2011-12-05 19:39 just some reverse-engineered info, and it's not enough to use the opcodes 2011-12-05 19:39 add to binutils, maybe 2011-12-05 19:40 iirc in the mplayer they have embedded them straight in assembler code with .byte and friends 2011-12-05 19:41 their official solution is some kind of extra preprocessing step with awk 2011-12-05 19:41 binutils support would be the right way to do it indeed 2011-12-05 19:41 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 20:23 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 20:23 LunaVorax joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 20:31 * DocScrutinizer sighs on having access to complete source of a LTE stack now, and it's not exactly worth anything 2011-12-05 20:35 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 20:52 Kleingarten owners around? (sorry OT) 2011-12-05 20:54 Ayla joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 21:05 niniadcobre left #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 21:08 antgreen joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 21:11 kristianpaul: what's that? 2011-12-05 21:24 german for small garden ? 2011-12-05 21:26 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 21:52 wpwrak: any idea of how it may be even _remotely_ related to #qi? 2011-12-05 21:55 perhaps because some people here speak german - so at least the question can be understood or interpreted ? :) 2011-12-05 22:27 :D 2011-12-05 22:28 а не заняться ли мне тем же?.. :) 2011-12-05 22:33 quid pro quo ? 2011-12-05 22:44 whitequark: ;) 2011-12-05 22:47 * Jay7 -> sleep 2011-12-05 22:55 DocScrutinizer: for STE it hopefully is :) 2011-12-05 22:56 sure, the LTE stack probably is extremely fine - just my access to it is not as exciting as I once thought it might be 2011-12-05 22:56 DocScrutinizer: and maybe one day, there'll be a chance to put your experience with LTE to good use in the name of freedom as well. you're now officially our mole in LTE-dom ;-) 2011-12-05 22:56 hehe ;-) 2011-12-05 22:56 Ornotermes joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 22:56 that's commonly known as "anti-climax" ;-) 2011-12-05 22:57 hmm, never heard of it but sounds about right 2011-12-05 22:57 and *of course* all their images are signed 2011-12-05 22:57 the only exciting thing I learnt today was I'll get a chance to learn about their signing infra 2011-12-05 22:58 ;-)) 2011-12-05 22:58 there's exactly ONE signing host (I don't think I'm already breaking any NSA by saying that) 2011-12-05 22:58 it will probably be disappointingly insecure 2011-12-05 22:58 nDa :) 2011-12-05 22:58 yea 2011-12-05 22:58 mech typo 2011-12-05 22:59 one host sounds sensible. if there's no network cable going there, even better. of course, that may be confidential information 2011-12-05 23:00 it sounded to me like that signing may or may not work, depending on your luck, or moon phase 2011-12-05 23:00 so what will your work be on that LTE stack ? 2011-12-05 23:00 hehe ;-) 2011-12-05 23:01 not entirely clear, but base software, particularly drivers for interfaces it seems 2011-12-05 23:02 think of stuff like on crappy S3C2442 where all periph clocks are derived from master clock 2011-12-05 23:02 ah yes, industry has a voracious need for drivers 2011-12-05 23:02 well, there's worse than having synchronized clocks :) 2011-12-05 23:03 now what's wrong with an UART not working up to 6Mbps though it should? Master clock too slow :-D 2011-12-05 23:03 yes, that's sometimes the drawback of a master clock for everything :) 2011-12-05 23:04 no divider available on subclock generator to run at 6Mbps with that master 2011-12-05 23:04 add a PLL ;-) 2011-12-05 23:04 we're SW - alas 2011-12-05 23:04 no chip modding 2011-12-05 23:05 the lab is not essentially differing from TPE OM lab 2011-12-05 23:05 then it gets trickier 2011-12-05 23:05 just a bit larger 2011-12-05 23:05 and just as much fun ? :) 2011-12-05 23:05 sure, I bet 2011-12-05 23:05 oh dear 2011-12-05 23:06 how are your coworkers ? friendly ? 2011-12-05 23:06 nah, my second day's evening 2011-12-05 23:06 yep, so far 2011-12-05 23:06 EE folks 2011-12-05 23:06 :-D 2011-12-05 23:06 we're a nice bunch 2011-12-05 23:06 good. so you can curse sw together ;-) 2011-12-05 23:06 nit exactly 2011-12-05 23:06 not* - EE 2011-12-05 23:07 we're EE SW 2011-12-05 23:07 sth like that 2011-12-05 23:07 lot of scopes, few soldering irons 2011-12-05 23:07 ah :) EE who don't run scared when somebody shows them a vi. good :) 2011-12-05 23:08 I'm not that sure - win all over 2011-12-05 23:08 finally real equipment. you must have missed that 2011-12-05 23:08 eek 2011-12-05 23:08 indeed, I did 2011-12-05 23:08 decent eval boards, lauterbacj in-circuit-debuggers 2011-12-05 23:09 some hw on every desk, next to workstation 2011-12-05 23:09 not in lab ;-D 2011-12-05 23:09 a PSU here, a logic analyzer there 2011-12-05 23:10 but for now I'm digging thru ClearCase 2011-12-05 23:10 *cough* 2011-12-05 23:10 that's kinda like svn for perverts, right ? 2011-12-05 23:10 right 2011-12-05 23:11 raher like git for windows folks 2011-12-05 23:11 oh, that advantaged ? 2011-12-05 23:11 advanced 2011-12-05 23:11 yep 2011-12-05 23:12 even has graphs for dependencies 2011-12-05 23:12 good for them :) 2011-12-05 23:12 but we may use cygwin ;-D 2011-12-05 23:12 is it still the case that dynamic views are too heavy to actually use with a big group of people or did that change with advances in hardware? 2011-12-05 23:13 seems it's not an issue - dynamic view is the usual one 2011-12-05 23:13 mth: faster hardware - the ultimate solution to software development incompetence ;-) 2011-12-05 23:13 the CC people were looking down on our use of CVS, but we got builds in 5 minutes while theirs took hours 2011-12-05 23:13 hehehe 2011-12-05 23:13 CC is a friggin monster 2011-12-05 23:14 config layers for config layers for config layers 2011-12-05 23:15 and it not only competes against git, it also makes make obsolete 2011-12-05 23:15 I guess it didn't help that they ran the CC server on expensive Sun hardware... so expensive that they couldn't replace it yet even though it was 5 years old 2011-12-05 23:15 i'm happy that we now have revision control systems that operate smoothly with local copies. that's probably the biggest improvement since CVS 2011-12-05 23:15 on CC you can define to be local what ever you like 2011-12-05 23:16 CVS is horrible, actually, but all of its flaws can be worked around 2011-12-05 23:16 making make obsolete - when just shooting your own foot is not enough, but you have to first poison, irradiate, and burn it 2011-12-05 23:16 and btw they wrapped some proprietary stuff around CC to make it work in their environment and naming scheme 2011-12-05 23:16 i worked for a while with CVS. wasn't that bad. not all that much of a difference to SVN for how i used it 2011-12-05 23:17 then there's eclipse 2011-12-05 23:17 integrated into all that 2011-12-05 23:18 are you sure you got the name right ? STE ? not SaTaN ? :) 2011-12-05 23:18 heh 2011-12-05 23:18 CVS needs a server even for a diff, which is probably the most common daily operation 2011-12-05 23:19 and tagging is done per file, so it's extremely slow on large code bases 2011-12-05 23:19 if you abort a tag command halfway, you actually have tagged half the archive 2011-12-05 23:19 LOL 2011-12-05 23:19 cool shit 2011-12-05 23:19 even figuring out which tags exist means you look for the oldest surviving tag and run "cvs log" on that 2011-12-05 23:20 SVN is a big step up from CVS for any non-trivial use 2011-12-05 23:20 well tags under CC aren't exactly joy either 2011-12-05 23:20 *look for the oldest surviving file 2011-12-05 23:21 like README or the top-level Makefile 2011-12-05 23:21 i vaguely remember mails being sent before larger-scale changes in CVS ... 2011-12-05 23:21 dunno, somehow this shit makes me feel sick nowadays 2011-12-05 23:22 DocScrutinizer: shit like CVS ? or like CC ? 2011-12-05 23:22 so probably I'll like it in 3 months 2011-12-05 23:22 CC, git, CVS, eclipse, C 2011-12-05 23:22 c++ 2011-12-05 23:22 ah, software development in general :) 2011-12-05 23:23 I somehow feel like an old professor who prefers teaching and discussing with other old professors over actually getting his hands dirty 2011-12-05 23:24 and gooosh I hated those guys 2011-12-05 23:24 now I'm obviouls yone of them 2011-12-05 23:24 ;-)) 2011-12-05 23:25 your mind may have wandered off, but your hands won't have forgotten the joy of getting dirty :) 2011-12-05 23:25 hat's what I hope for 2011-12-05 23:25 that's 2011-12-05 23:26 though I also hate the taxes we poor employees have to pay 2011-12-05 23:26 I do like Eclipse for Java, since there it actually adds something besides syntax highlighting 2011-12-05 23:26 like "list all callers of this method" 2011-12-05 23:26 they got that stuff there, sth alike lxr/mxr 2011-12-05 23:26 those are what keep the 1% fed. they'd starve without it. show some compassion ! ;-) 2011-12-05 23:27 but last time I checked it didn't have stuff like that for C/C++ 2011-12-05 23:27 not reliable, anyway 2011-12-05 23:28 looked pretty much like mxr.maemo.org to me 2011-12-05 23:28 for example, when methods are overloaded, does it show the actual callers of the method or all callers to methods of the same name? 2011-12-05 23:28 overWAHT? 2011-12-05 23:28 ;-P 2011-12-05 23:28 well, if you want to remove overloading, the question "who calls this" is very relevant :) 2011-12-05 23:28 here's a more universal solution if you're using git: http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/bin/gg 2011-12-05 23:29 mth: sure 2011-12-05 23:29 luckily this is mostly c stuff 2011-12-05 23:30 as, you know, we're the base sw dept 2011-12-05 23:30 and drivers usually aren't c++ 2011-12-05 23:30 wpwrak: yep, but if you're doing OO then you might get a lot of false positives from either overloading or methods with the same name in a completely separate class hierarchy 2011-12-05 23:30 (gg) a quick grep on all the files in the hierarchy. and then, if you don't ^C, it runs vi on all of them, with the search expression already pre-set. 2011-12-05 23:31 oh sure, with OO you're doomed 2011-12-05 23:31 yeah, overload - 2011-12-05 23:31 Eclipse when editing Java actually looks at the parse tree of the program and not just the text 2011-12-05 23:31 Xcode is also moving in that direction although it's still hit and miss 2011-12-05 23:31 you mean the class hierarchy ? 'cause the parse tree won't tell you much more than the text 2011-12-05 23:32 a proper compiler would do that job as well 2011-12-05 23:32 and a proper language doesn't have that problem in the first place ;-) 2011-12-05 23:32 parse tree with type info 2011-12-05 23:32 s/would/ought/ 2011-12-05 23:32 DocScrutinizer meant: "a proper compiler ought do that job as well" 2011-12-05 23:32 I think it's one of the reasons Apple wanted their own compiler and wrote it as a library with a small command line front-end 2011-12-05 23:33 GPL3 being the other reason 2011-12-05 23:33 hahaha 2011-12-05 23:34 a compiler lib, *nice* 2011-12-05 23:34 well pals, I'm a wreck and in 5h the night is over 2011-12-05 23:35 o/ 2011-12-05 23:35 nite 2011-12-05 23:35 yeah, better get some rest :) 2011-12-05 23:36 sleep deprivation and a win-centric sw development environment probably don't go together well 2011-12-05 23:36 dunno, maybe it makes more sense if you're only half awake 2011-12-05 23:38 oh yes, lxr. 2011-12-05 23:38 pretty much screwed up for OO 2011-12-05 23:39 hmm, possibly. then at least the neurons sleeping will think it was only a bad dream. 2011-12-05 23:39 the saddest thing is, exuberant ctags are fine for OO, it's just the frontend 2011-12-05 23:40 and it's written in Perl. more precisely, in one of worst forms of it. not a pearl of software development indeed 2011-12-05 23:41 the nice think about perl is that there's more than one way. and what's even better is that, no matter how many there are, at least one is at the same time brilliant and unbelievably dirty :) 2011-12-05 23:42 the thing I love in Ruby is that it does aforementioned rule the right way 2011-12-05 23:42 i.e. it's easier to not turn your code into a tangled mess than the opposite 2011-12-05 23:43 quite an achievment imo 2011-12-05 23:43 *achievement 2011-12-05 23:44 wpwrak joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-05 23:44 hmm, scary. was that xchat crash instant karmic retribution ? 2011-12-05 23:44 oh, have I talked to you in the meantime?.. 2011-12-05 23:44 sleep deprivation here, too 2011-12-05 23:44 wpwrak: then http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware/2011-12-05#1323128537-1323128626; 2011-12-05 23:47 thanks 2011-12-05 23:49 naw, i'll stick with perl as my main scripting language. python is okay-ish for some things, too, but i don't use it enough to really feel at home there. also, it tries too much to enforce "clean" programming. if i care about that, it's something bigger and then it'll be in C anyway. 2011-12-05 23:50 well, ruby/python is a bit religious 2011-12-05 23:51 python cares about cleanness, ruby gathered some bits from perl (multiple ways) and lisp (uses lambdas a lot in a nice and understandable way) 2011-12-05 23:51 so, you see why there are quite a few flamewars 2011-12-05 23:52 ah usual ;-) 2011-12-05 23:52 s/ah/as/ 2011-12-05 23:52 wpwrak meant: "as usual ;-)" 2011-12-05 23:52 qi-bot: thanks 2011-12-05 23:52 hm 2011-12-05 23:52 I wonder if it really knows the syntax 2011-12-05 23:52 s,the,the perl, 2011-12-05 23:52 nah. 2011-12-05 23:54 wpwrak: do you possibly know why there are few combined wifi+bt minipcie cards around? 2011-12-05 23:55 a valid reason may be that they usually work bad. on the other side, I've only seen broadcom ones 2011-12-05 23:55 looks like "screwed up and losing 50% of packets" is the normal modus operandi for them 2011-12-05 23:56 no, dunno. is minipcie still used a lot for wlan in general ? or have they moved to integrating it in a non-modular way ? 2011-12-05 23:56 ;-)) 2011-12-05 23:56 still used a lot 2011-12-05 23:56 and I like it 2011-12-05 23:56 because you can get all that broadcom shit and burn it in microwave 2011-12-05 23:56 and insert some sane atheros ones instead 2011-12-05 23:57 ;-) 2011-12-05 23:57 every f*cking broadcom device I seen in my life wasn't working good 2011-12-05 23:57 every single one. 2011-12-05 23:57 do they do anything good at all?! 2011-12-05 23:58 and why the hell their crap ends being shipped everywhere 2011-12-05 23:59 (I don't know if you've seen "The IT Crowd" sitcom, but if you do, you'll instantly recognize why I often say "ahhh, broadcom...") 2011-12-05 23:59 Kuwanger joined #qi-hardware