2011-12-02 00:20 Freemor joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 00:35 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 00:35 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 00:38 skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 00:45 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 00:45 More seriously but in the same vein, I reckon that releasing a ready-made minimal toolchain that would allow compilation FOR the Ben FROM the Ben would be a Good Thing (TM). I know of some people (including me) who would spend more time working on ports if it didn't take up >2 GB and -more importantly- precious CPU cycles from my^H^Htheir money-generating workstation. 2011-12-02 00:45 just sayin' 2011-12-02 00:46 PiLeS: totally hear you 2011-12-02 00:46 one reason we had to kick out gcc from the standard image once was that the 512mb rootfs was full 2011-12-02 00:47 it's hovering around 480mb now, basically whenever we add something nice we have to think what else to remove 2011-12-02 00:47 sure things are installable with opkg, but that requires work to setup and is generally more inconvenient than if things are preinstalled 2011-12-02 00:47 thanks to work from David and Lars the nand and ubifs are so fast now that we could easily mount the entire 2gb 2011-12-02 00:48 but how to switch from 512mb to 2gb without breaking compatibility for a lot of people, that's tough 2011-12-02 00:48 once at the beginning we switched from 256mb to 512mb, and it took more than a year until finally people didn't run into bugs related to that switch anymore 2011-12-02 00:54 Maybe what is needed is some form of classification in the packages; a bit like what the Debian guys did, but better ;) 2011-12-02 00:59 Anyway, that wasn't my point. 2011-12-02 01:01 PiLeS: huh? what was your point then? 2011-12-02 01:02 opkg is easy enough as it is 2011-12-02 01:02 ok 2011-12-02 01:02 I was dreaming 2011-12-02 01:02 which tools are you missing? 2011-12-02 01:02 that's good 2011-12-02 01:03 my dream Ben has gigaherz-anything and can do everything 2011-12-02 01:03 erm 2011-12-02 01:03 :-) 2011-12-02 01:05 the tools that I'm missing right now (and that I'm too lazy/busy/important/stupid/pick-any to develop by myself is a full xburst toolchain image for the Ben 2011-12-02 01:05 Or maybe it is around and I missed it? 2011-12-02 01:06 xburst-toolchain, what do you mean exactly? 2011-12-02 01:06 we have gcc, we are probably weak on headers and libraries 2011-12-02 01:12 These are building blocks. They are fine. I was thinking more along the lines of that: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_OpenWRT_on_Debian_6 2011-12-02 01:12 but for the Ben. 2011-12-02 01:12 That's some work 2011-12-02 01:13 but it will draw the geeks like honey does for flies. 2011-12-02 01:13 Free labour! 2011-12-02 01:15 you mean you want to build the entire image on the Ben? 2011-12-02 01:15 run openwrt on ben? :-) 2011-12-02 01:15 And by For the Ben I really mean FROM the Ben 2011-12-02 01:15 Yup 2011-12-02 01:16 Maybe not the full image, that's where classification kicks in 2011-12-02 01:18 I think openwrt has some pretty cool online image generators now 2011-12-02 01:18 unfortunately I forgot the url, lemme see whether I can find it somewhere 2011-12-02 01:18 here http://openwrt.linux-appliance.net/ib/wizard.cgi?target=xburst 2011-12-02 01:19 it's different from your idea but it also offloads building from your notebook/desktop 2011-12-02 01:19 just not onto the Ben, but in the other direction (cloud :-)) 2011-12-02 01:20 aw joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 01:20 aw_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 01:23 Nice. 2011-12-02 01:24 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 01:27 But that's still not what I meant. 2011-12-02 01:28 Anyway, just throwing ideas in the air, looking at how they fly ;-) 2011-12-02 01:30 xiangfu joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 01:32 The self-contained idea would appeal to geeks and devs with time to spare; no? 2011-12-02 01:32 freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 01:33 I would most certainly devote my spare Ben to that! ;-) 2011-12-02 01:33 don't know 2011-12-02 01:33 we are talking about smart and imaginative people, they see something in the future 2011-12-02 01:33 which excites them 2011-12-02 01:33 but the excitements may differ a lot, because the future is so unclear and so full of possibilities :-) 2011-12-02 01:34 so yes I can definitely *imagine* that some people get excited about this idea 2011-12-02 01:34 not me though, at least not today. I have no problem with the idea of moving the building into the cloud, to powerful servers. 2011-12-02 01:34 I rather have a great buildhost with gui, like the openwrt link I posted. 2011-12-02 01:34 well, I do 2011-12-02 01:34 oh sure, please do 2011-12-02 01:34 you asked me, so I answer :-) 2011-12-02 01:34 for myself 2011-12-02 01:34 think about the Milkymist One case 2011-12-02 01:35 build the bitstream on the M1? the synthesis tools? 2011-12-02 01:35 those are nice *ideas*, but not more than that. It will not happen for x years. 2011-12-02 01:35 Not the same thing 2011-12-02 01:35 I can be motivated about something I can reach in 1 week, 1 month, maybe 3 months. 2011-12-02 01:36 Hey! You're a human being! ;-) 2011-12-02 01:36 there are many things in-motion. embedded devices become more powerful, making them better targets for full distros, or be able to build all software on them 2011-12-02 01:37 on the other side there are always yet more embedded devices appearing, with more integration, or specialized tools that need a powerful host computer, for now 2011-12-02 01:37 so you need to think about the time horizon that motivates you 2011-12-02 01:37 and I think you do :-) 2011-12-02 01:37 otherwise you wouldn't be chatting with me here, you would be hacking on your idea 2011-12-02 01:37 but your idea is impractical in the short run, so you kinda don't want to start :-) 2011-12-02 01:37 if your goal is to make the Ben be able to build an entire Ben image on itself - GO FOR IT! 2011-12-02 01:38 I am not stopping you 2011-12-02 01:38 but you will be on this for a few months, maybe years? 2011-12-02 01:38 so maybe you are not so excited about it, after all 2011-12-02 01:38 we see :-) 2011-12-02 01:39 powerful host computer my shiny ass. This mighty old workstation was built by Michael Dell's tiny helper-hands 12 years ago. 2011-12-02 01:39 Also, Chatting while said workstation builds stuff... 2011-12-02 01:40 :-* 2011-12-02 01:40 ok, but you want to run it on the Ben or not? 2011-12-02 01:43 I told you, I am a dreamer 2011-12-02 01:58 wolfspra1l joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 01:58 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 02:48 maybe I am not so excited. Maybe I am not worth. Maybe I should step down. Maybe Seppuku is in order. 2011-12-02 02:49 Maybe I should go to bed now, and be thankful for having a GF. 2011-12-02 02:51 Or maybe I should try and be more helpful, fuck girls, who needs them? 2011-12-02 02:51 rejon_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 02:52 Kuessen. Guten nacht. 2011-12-02 05:22 wpwrak: there is such script, but is it too hard to replace in mind? :) 2011-12-02 05:28 DocScrutinizer joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 05:53 kristianpaul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 06:00 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 06:55 skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 07:14 stefan_schmidt joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 07:18 kristianpaul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 07:34 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 08:34 dvdk joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 08:35 wolfspraul: reading through the IRC logs; 2011-12-02 08:35 wolfspraul: about the problem with limited space in 512 mb UBIFS partition: 2011-12-02 08:35 kyak: not too hard. but it's kinda cute if the machine does it for you ;-) 2011-12-02 08:36 why don't we release multiple differently sized images, like one 512 mb "medium" image, and another 1GB "large" image with more packages included? 2011-12-02 08:36 shouldn't be too difficult from the toolchain point of view. all these packages are built anyway, so throwing them into another, larger image shouldn't break anything 2011-12-02 08:37 hmm, but size of the mtd partitions is fixed in the kernel? would need two corresponding versions for the kernel? 2011-12-02 09:17 mstevens joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 09:20 skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 09:29 skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 09:36 dvdk: yes, fixed partition sizes 2011-12-02 09:44 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 09:48 not this partition discussion again :) 2011-12-02 09:51 jivs joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 09:52 wolfspraul: can't this be passed in from the boot loader? On PPC there is usually a device-tree file passed to the kernel that configures mtd partitioning 2011-12-02 09:53 kyak: :) 2011-12-02 09:59 antoniodariush joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 10:19 jivs joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 10:31 dvdk: there is no device tree on mips afaik 2011-12-02 10:32 blogic was working on something there.. for a different mips device. maybe we should wait for his work and then followup 2011-12-02 10:36 i didn't call for a full device tree for mips. just for some config to pass from boot loader to kernel... 2011-12-02 10:37 maybe cmdline would do? 2011-12-02 10:37 well.. wouldnt be the worst idea to do proper devicetree and wait till then. lets wait what blogic has to say 2011-12-02 11:01 there is already a config option to parse mtd partitioning from the kernel command line, afaik 2011-12-02 11:07 well, then problem solved? For a "big" installation we'd only have to change uboot env. vars and install the larger root ubifs, no? 2011-12-02 11:08 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 11:14 probably; I haven't used the feature yet, but I saw it when browsing menuconfig 2011-12-02 11:18 Ayla joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 11:22 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 11:27 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 11:55 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 12:07 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 12:07 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 12:14 antoniodariush joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 12:25 kristoffer joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 12:34 how do oy ulike it, wpwraks? 2011-12-02 12:35 s/oy/you/s/ulike/like/s/wpwraks/wpwrak 2011-12-02 12:35 kyak meant: "how do you like it, wpwrak?" 2011-12-02 12:35 now, it must do the same, but automatically :) 2011-12-02 12:36 drunk speech translator 2011-12-02 12:51 jivs joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 13:11 woakas joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 13:13 kyak: ah, nice... 2011-12-02 13:13 s/ah/wheee/s/nice/EXCELLENT/s/.../!!11!/ 2011-12-02 13:13 wpwrak meant: "!!11!!!11!!!11!!!11!!!11!!!11!!!11!!!11!." 2011-12-02 13:13 hmm :) 2011-12-02 13:13 close ;-) 2011-12-02 13:19 antoniodariush joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 13:44 roh: yes 2011-12-02 13:44 i have experimental patches for DT on MIPS 2011-12-02 13:44 lmo will switch all devices to DT and not accept new target unless they are DT conformant 2011-12-02 14:21 Textmode joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 14:51 urandom__ joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 14:51 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 15:22 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 16:00 emeb joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 16:25 vladkorotnev joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 16:33 paroneayea joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 16:40 vladkorotnev left #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 17:01 erikkugel joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 17:03 Hi guys, just a quick question about building the software image. When I run make, config still asks something around 20 question about various modules, including Ethernet Gadget, ALSA and LCD. I'm curious if anyone else had seen this? I'm building the latest Novermber image... 2011-12-02 17:04 dptech joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 17:16 erikkugel: I guess the kernel config is just not up to date with the kernel version used. slightly unclean. the proper fix is usually to run 'yes "" | make config' or something to update the config for the newer kernel (applying defaults) 2011-12-02 17:16 freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 17:17 That sounds great, I'll try it out, the main reason I'm asking is for the Debian script we have on the wiki. Thanks for the lead dvdk! 2011-12-02 17:40 Ayla joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 19:49 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 20:13 erikkugel left #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 20:20 [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/patches/rtems: added milkymist-midi-opt.patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/f331607 2011-12-02 20:25 [commit] Werner Almesberger: midigen/: MIDI traffic generator (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/395458b 2011-12-02 20:36 arti joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 20:38 arti left #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 21:17 zedstar joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 21:23 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 22:43 wej joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 22:49 wejp joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 23:08 freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware 2011-12-02 23:40 wpwrak: you sent M1 related patches to qi list and not copy to mm dev list for some sepacial reason? 2011-12-02 23:41 argh 2011-12-02 23:41 they were meant to go to the other list, of course 2011-12-02 23:41 sure :-) 2011-12-02 23:42 s/sepacial/special 2011-12-02 23:46 thanks for the heads up ! :)