2011-11-25 00:51 aw joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 00:51 aw_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 01:11 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 01:16 antgreen: hello, 2011-11-25 01:17 antgreen: i was wondering (just for intelectual curiosity) where i can find the bsp for moxie in newlib 2011-11-25 01:17 i just noticed you have lots of libraries in src :-) 2011-11-25 01:18 xiangfu joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 01:20 xiangfu: seems you are near to have the first nanonote build host for debian :-) 2011-11-25 01:24 panda|x201 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 01:31 xiangfu: can the Ben detect whether the USB cable is inserted? 2011-11-25 01:32 and/or whether it is charging, I guess (I think it always tries to draw power from USB when connected) 2011-11-25 01:33 the reason I am asking is because I find the screen blanking so annoying, so I thought when the Ben is connected to USB, we could disable screen blanking entirely. I think as long as it's connected the screen should stay on. 2011-11-25 01:34 that should be possible, one way or another 2011-11-25 01:37 how i do recover "stashed" changes so i can commit?.. 2011-11-25 01:38 oh, dear trying to remenber what did one month ago, and found some verilog bubbles wpwrak may find interesting :-) 2011-11-25 01:42 kristianpaul: git stash pop/apply 2011-11-25 01:44 pabs3: thanks !, but.. 2011-11-25 01:44 what is actually pop? 2011-11-25 01:44 branch? 2011-11-25 01:44 applys the top patch in your stash, then removes it from the stash 2011-11-25 01:44 ah i undertand is like a cp /tmp/garbage /repo 2011-11-25 01:45 if you run gitk --all you'll see that the stash is just another branch 2011-11-25 01:50 k 2011-11-25 01:50 yeah a picture of this is very apreaciated 2011-11-25 02:07 wolfspraul, yes. the /sys/devices/platform/gpio-charger.0/power_supply/USB/online will indicate that if USB cable is inserted. 2011-11-25 02:10 oh :) 2011-11-25 02:14 xiangfu: nice 2011-11-25 02:15 is it possible to disable screen blanking when the USB cable is connected? 2011-11-25 02:16 gmen2x: is kind of easy. we can add some code to gmenu2x detect the usb cable then disable/enable the screen blanking. 2011-11-25 02:16 tty0: it needs a daemon app I guess. :) 2011-11-25 02:17 gmenu2x and tty0/1/2/3 use different blanking method. 2011-11-25 02:17 :) 2011-11-25 02:17 ok 2011-11-25 02:17 I was trying the 11-13 image a bit and I'm super excited. great work! 2011-11-25 02:17 how do you like it? 2011-11-25 02:18 I think it getting better. 2011-11-25 02:18 :-) 2011-11-25 02:18 yes, definitely 2011-11-25 02:18 I start to exciting when the 08-27 come out. :) 2011-11-25 02:19 this 11-13 is better then 08-27. 2011-11-25 02:19 is the nanonote support in u-boot upstream now so that we can remove the special u-boot from openwrt? 2011-11-25 02:19 I'm a little worried that >80% of the 512mb image are full though (in 11-13) 2011-11-25 02:19 when 11-13 come out. all I want is copy more media file to my nanonote. picture/video/music. 2011-11-25 02:20 I think we already had to remove some sw from the image in the past, and we will run into more trouble there 2011-11-25 02:20 we need the full 2gb I think 2011-11-25 02:20 in some way 2011-11-25 02:21 wolfspraul, u-boot. yes. needs some work. since the openwrt uboot-xburst support 3 device, I will try to merge them to new u-boot. or create another uboot-nanonote maybe. not sure. 2011-11-25 02:22 wolfspraul, yes. we removed gcc stuff. 2011-11-25 02:23 yeah 2011-11-25 02:23 bad 2011-11-25 02:23 :-) 2011-11-25 02:23 I wanted to use irssi, but not there 2011-11-25 02:25 how do I disable screen blanking in tty0? 2011-11-25 02:26 another thing that confuses me is our long list of terminal selections 2011-11-25 02:27 when I'm in a terminal, is there an easy way to iterate over console fonts? 2011-11-25 02:28 I think there should be some hotkey that just flips through all fonts and redraws the screen 2011-11-25 02:28 (tty0) use setterm -blank 0 2011-11-25 02:30 perfect, thanks! 2011-11-25 02:30 wolfspraul, (fonts) yes. since we have triggerhappy. it not hard to write a script file do that. 2011-11-25 02:30 let me try to do that now. :) 2011-11-25 02:32 opkg list shows 6365 packages!? 2011-11-25 02:32 are we really building over 6000 packages? 2011-11-25 02:33 495 installed 2011-11-25 02:33 (I installed a few manually, maybe it was around 490 in the 11-13 image) 2011-11-25 02:33 493 2011-11-25 02:34 nanonote have totally 2900+ packages in package repo. 2011-11-25 02:35 do we have a nanonote-docs or so where we can start to write up tutorial/faq/tips/etc ? 2011-11-25 02:36 I see we have man, no info 2011-11-25 02:36 don't have a nanonote-docs for now. that is the plan. haven't start. :) 2011-11-25 02:36 freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 02:36 ok sure, great 2011-11-25 02:36 maybe we just use html and one of the many text browsers we have 2011-11-25 02:37 wow, netsurf is so cool! 2011-11-25 02:37 :-) 2011-11-25 02:38 I think I have a new use case for my Ben - I leave it connected to my notebook, and move apps to the Ben 2011-11-25 02:38 I probably start with chat & email 2011-11-25 02:38 my emails will get shorter :-) 2011-11-25 02:40 rejon joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 03:01 xiangfu, can you come to that meeting tomorrow at 3 at fisheye? 2011-11-25 03:01 without you, going to be like me and wolfgang talking in hand gestures 2011-11-25 03:15 I tried listener, and then mplayer to play the .wav, but it couldn't play because of missing codec... 2011-11-25 03:16 yes. 2011-11-25 03:17 'aplay' works. 2011-11-25 03:17 still needs some work on mplayer :) 2011-11-25 03:17 I think now that the base system seems more or less under control (bootloader, kernel, rootfs/console/gui), we have chance to improve big time on the following 3 major features: 2011-11-25 03:17 1) backup 2011-11-25 03:17 2) encrypt 2011-11-25 03:17 3) update 2011-11-25 03:18 I keep thinking how to achieve it, and the most promising idea I can come up with is to look for existing small utilities/tools, even command line, to help with those. 2011-11-25 03:18 for update, can we rely on opkg to just keep updating packages? 2011-11-25 03:18 not sure whether we can update the bootloader or kernel that way, or how this interacts with major openwrt releases 2011-11-25 03:21 rejon, oh 2011-11-25 03:23 update. yes. the only one we should case is kernel. the openwrt kernel package is just a empty package only have some version file. 2011-11-25 03:24 we should add some post-install. flash the uImage to kernel partition. 2011-11-25 03:24 (updating packages). yes. we should try. 2011-11-25 03:25 if the uClibc and gcc update that maybe more trouble? 2011-11-25 03:26 probably 2011-11-25 03:26 like you said we need to experiment carefully 2011-11-25 03:26 and in parallel continue the full image releases and reflash_ben.sh we use today 2011-11-25 03:26 yes. 2011-11-25 03:28 how do most openwrt users update their devices? (mostly routers I guess) 2011-11-25 03:28 in my own openwrt usage, it was typically some serious focused effort to get it to a router, say a few hours or days full-time, and then I leave that router alone until the hardware fails x years later :-) 2011-11-25 03:28 no security updates, nothing 2011-11-25 03:28 is that the typical openwrt usage model? I hope not :-) 2011-11-25 03:37 openwrt update is like 'upload a image file to router' since mostly router only have 4M or 8M flash. 2011-11-25 03:37 I think this image include kernel and rootfs I guess. (forget the detail) 2011-11-25 03:39 I'm wondering how people continue after that 2011-11-25 03:39 like I said - I just leave it like that until the hardware fails 2011-11-25 03:39 not the most secure approach 2011-11-25 03:39 I am sure a lot of people at least will install security updates incrementally, via opkg (?) 2011-11-25 03:40 how about upgrading to the next major openwrt version? maybe everybody just reflashes everything? 2011-11-25 03:40 we probably should not try something that is not in line with the typical update model of most openwrt users 2011-11-25 03:41 basically we can just do what is easy to do with openwrt 2011-11-25 03:43 wolfspraul: there is sysupgrade nowadays which simplifies reflashing 2011-11-25 03:43 and configs remained largely compatible during the last few years 2011-11-25 03:44 sysupgrade 2011-11-25 03:44 sounds good 2011-11-25 03:44 thanks! 2011-11-25 03:44 will check out 2011-11-25 03:44 jow_laptop: how about backup or encryption - any tools you are aware of? 2011-11-25 03:44 some people use loop-aes afair 2011-11-25 03:45 as for backup, don't know, what do oyu envision? something networked or more an archivier? 2011-11-25 03:45 something that protects me in case of nanonote loss or total failure 2011-11-25 03:45 drop in water, stolen, etc. 2011-11-25 03:46 so I want to have a backup on my notebook, then restore from that backup 2011-11-25 03:46 provide an httpd server with a simple backup tar.gz download? 2011-11-25 03:46 thats what we do for the webui 2011-11-25 03:46 there is "opkg list-changed-conffiles" which is useful to find user edited package configs 2011-11-25 03:47 plus home 2011-11-25 03:47 since we talk about openwrt - how about updates through opkg? 2011-11-25 03:48 is that possible/supported? 2011-11-25 03:48 technically doable 2011-11-25 03:48 even across major releases? 2011-11-25 03:48 or totally unsupported? 2011-11-25 03:48 there are two big issues of one doesn't apply for you 2011-11-25 03:48 one problem is that kernel updates through opkg are not pssoible 2011-11-25 03:48 the other is space on the squash+jffs2 combo 2011-11-25 03:48 oh and of curse the uclibc binary compat 2011-11-25 03:49 but that depends on how you develop 2011-11-25 03:49 I mena whether you choose to update it or not 2011-11-25 03:50 why are kernel updates through opkg not possible? 2011-11-25 03:50 because the kernel image is usaully in a dedicated flash partition 2011-11-25 03:50 without any fs 2011-11-25 03:50 which various from model to model 2011-11-25 03:50 *varies 2011-11-25 03:50 so there is no generic mechanism 2011-11-25 03:51 ok makes sense 2011-11-25 03:51 but we could have a dedicated package or post-install script 2011-11-25 03:51 if there is a way to write a new kernel from within a running openwrt then this is solvable as well 2011-11-25 03:51 one can encode the process in a postinstall script then 2011-11-25 03:52 so the bits and pieces for upgrade are all there 2011-11-25 03:52 how do most openwrt users upgrade? 2011-11-25 03:52 sysupgrade 2011-11-25 03:52 which is basically reflash + config restore 2011-11-25 03:53 it does not retain installed packages though 2011-11-25 03:54 most targets are still in the 4MB..8MB flash memory range 2011-11-25 03:54 there simply is no space for packaging overhead 2011-11-25 03:55 ok 2011-11-25 03:55 * kristianpaul havent update his routers since a year.. 2011-11-25 03:55 no regular/automatic security updates? 2011-11-25 03:56 kristianpaul: hey :-) sounds like my model :-) 2011-11-25 03:56 I get openwrt to setup the way I want to, then leave it untouched until hardware failure :-) 2011-11-25 03:57 well not that i wait for that, i regulary load new image as a RC is avaliable 2011-11-25 03:57 there are package upgrades, but binary releases are not openwrts strong point and we're still figuring it out 2011-11-25 03:57 organization-wise 2011-11-25 03:57 ok good 2011-11-25 03:57 so for now the Ben follows the common/regular openwrt model 2011-11-25 03:57 that's good 2011-11-25 03:57 that is basically up to the people building openwrt based distros :) 2011-11-25 03:58 how is usage of openwrt proper or distros developing actually? 2011-11-25 03:58 mostly routers? 2011-11-25 03:58 about backup, at lest consider that most apps will use root home folder, including at least for me some games and nanonote 2011-11-25 03:58 the number of supported models increasing/decreasing? 2011-11-25 03:58 I don't follow routers at all I have to admit... 2011-11-25 03:59 wolfspraul: it is becoming more models 2011-11-25 03:59 i have loose my maps and game leves after every relfash, but i'm really lazy to backup it up :) 2011-11-25 03:59 for the rest of precious content i just use a memcard 2011-11-25 03:59 wolfspraul: you dont need follow, use they work well you ignore :) 2011-11-25 03:59 kristianpaul: yes, I don't think you are alone. So we need to improve that and make those 3 things dead simple: backup, encryption, update 2011-11-25 04:00 wolfspraul: you should build a backup facilityi nto reflahs-ben.sh 2011-11-25 04:00 make it connect the ben and download a tar.gz with changed configs plus user root 2011-11-25 04:00 then reflash 2011-11-25 04:00 then connect the ben again and restore it 2011-11-25 04:00 good idea 2011-11-25 04:01 do you have stats on the number of openwrt users? 2011-11-25 04:01 no 2011-11-25 04:01 I suppose we could evaluate the http server logs 2011-11-25 04:01 but that is skewed as dd-wrt uses openwrt packages too 2011-11-25 04:01 or include rootkits in next release ;-) 2011-11-25 04:02 openwrt is getting really nice those days, the other days i was consider even use like for a swtich OS 2011-11-25 04:03 http://pastebin.com/CVZQSKQp 2011-11-25 04:03 this code finds all user changed package configs plus all paths matched by shell globs in /etc/sysupgrade.conf 2011-11-25 04:05 on my home router this currently looks like this: http://pastebin.com/kfqpQ2tJ 2011-11-25 04:06 an important thing w.r.t. opkg based upgrades is that package maintainers must be careful 2011-11-25 04:07 and one needs to establish versioned depends 2011-11-25 04:07 maybe the idea to enhance reflash_ben.sh is good 2011-11-25 04:07 as a first small practical step 2011-11-25 04:07 yes 2011-11-25 04:07 posible depency issues? 2011-11-25 04:07 right now one can only depend on "libfoo", not on "libfoo >= v1.0" 2011-11-25 04:07 at lest that nannonote can upgrade it self (like M1 :D) 2011-11-25 04:08 but there will be details, for example reflash_ben.sh normally starts right now when the Ben is in a special usb boot mode 2011-11-25 04:08 this leads to issues like: https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=148933 2011-11-25 04:08 yeah, I think its will be tricky to establish some kind of communication with the ben 2011-11-25 04:09 you need to establish some ip connectivity over udp I suppose 2011-11-25 04:09 erm *over usb 2011-11-25 04:09 so that in the end the reflash ben.sh is like itunes to the iphone 2011-11-25 04:09 we have a lot of options I think, but need to find the smallest step that delivers results 2011-11-25 04:10 oh my god, that sounds scary :-) 2011-11-25 04:10 yeah I know 2011-11-25 04:10 I hope people are not inspired by *that* analogy :-) 2011-11-25 04:10 i just mean the aspect of bundling backups, reflashes, recovery aetc. into one app 2011-11-25 04:10 you could also say "maybe the Ben will be as easy to use as AOL one day" 2011-11-25 04:11 we also experiment with web based image builders 2011-11-25 04:12 go on 2011-11-25 04:12 http://openwrt.linux-appliance.net/ib/wizard.cgi?target=xburst 2011-11-25 04:13 this way one can assemble a desired package collection online, provide additional files to embed and let it build on the server 2011-11-25 04:13 nice 2011-11-25 04:13 the final image is tailored to the custom needs then 2011-11-25 04:13 in the upload step one could upload the backup archive for example 2011-11-25 04:14 but it probably contains patent encumbered software 2011-11-25 04:14 well that entriely depends on what components are provided in the repo 2011-11-25 04:14 the link I sent is based on http://downloads.openwrt.org/backfire/10.03.1-rc6/xburst/OpenWrt-ImageBuilder-xburst-for-Linux-i686.tar.bz2 2011-11-25 04:15 yeah it's nice 2011-11-25 04:16 can it build bootable images for the nanonote now? 2011-11-25 04:16 I'm wondering whether we have more things left to upstream still, or all there already... 2011-11-25 04:16 tbh I never tried :) 2011-11-25 04:16 it will probably boot and drop to a busybox prompt 2011-11-25 04:16 no gmenu etc. 2011-11-25 04:19 that would be great 2011-11-25 04:19 jow_laptop: if you feel there is anything we can do better for openwrt upstream, please speak up 2011-11-25 04:19 can't think of anything 2011-11-25 04:19 some things will never be applicable mainline 2011-11-25 04:19 xiangfu worked hard to get nanonote support into u-boot upstream, we can probably cleanup a bit on the openwrt side now 2011-11-25 04:20 and the other stuff slowly trickles in 2011-11-25 04:20 like package updates 2011-11-25 04:20 oh sure, that's fine 2011-11-25 04:20 yes 2011-11-25 04:20 I also hope we get a bigger push behind OpenWrt on Milkymist One at some point 2011-11-25 04:21 Lars has been starting and made good progress, but very few people use that right now (understandably since there are serious limitations right now) 2011-11-25 04:22 jow_laptop: have you heard of Milkymist? :-) (you probably did, just checking...) 2011-11-25 04:22 yes, I follow the lists and the channel here 2011-11-25 04:23 to improve Linux and OpenWrt on it a lot of pieces are missing, such as mmu, lots of work in the Linux kernel, C++ compiler or even more recent gcc compiler support, dynamic linking missing as well I think 2011-11-25 04:23 let's say 1 year :-) 2011-11-25 05:23 DocScrutinizer joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 05:31 xiangfu_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 05:32 aw joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 05:32 aw_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 06:13 rejon joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 06:42 rejon joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 07:23 panda|x201 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 07:23 stefan_schmidt joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 08:00 panda|x201 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 08:22 [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/patches: added soc11_2.diff posted by Sebastien on Nov 23 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/94fd599 2011-11-25 09:00 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 09:11 zedstar joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 09:31 rejon_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 09:40 antoniodariush joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 10:39 GNUtoo joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 10:43 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 10:45 kristianpaul joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 10:59 xiangfu joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 11:09 xiangfu, if you want to come tomorrow great 2011-11-25 11:09 but now found others who can help bridge the lang. divide :) 2011-11-25 11:09 wolfspraul and I will meet at fisheye cafe and talk shop 2011-11-25 11:10 hopefully can look at the image stuff on m1 and more 2011-11-25 11:13 http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Registries 2011-11-25 11:15 rejon_, if the JJ want setup the M1 tomorrow. I think I will come to fisheye tomorrow. :) 2011-11-25 11:16 ok cool, its up to you 2011-11-25 11:16 i know its your weekend 2011-11-25 11:16 so don't stress out 2011-11-25 11:16 rejon_, I will update the JJ's m1 to latest stable release. will not include image support. 2011-11-25 11:16 is it still too risky? 2011-11-25 11:16 ;) 2011-11-25 11:17 i'll see wolfgang there at 2 pm, others will arrive at 3 pm 2011-11-25 11:17 like the crowd 2011-11-25 11:17 rejon_, hmm... no. just don't want break normal webupdate. I think ender user follow the stable release is better. 2011-11-25 11:18 totally agree 2011-11-25 11:18 who is JJ? 2011-11-25 11:18 rejon_, sorry. Jing jing. 2011-11-25 11:18 aha 2011-11-25 11:18 cool 2011-11-25 11:18 is she going to come there? 2011-11-25 11:18 I am C developer. :D 2011-11-25 11:19 rejon_, no. I don't think so. but she said will wire the money today, and want setup M1 this weekend. 2011-11-25 11:19 oh great 2011-11-25 11:19 rejon_, oh. she didn't CC to you. 2011-11-25 11:19 its ok 2011-11-25 11:19 i'm used to that 2011-11-25 11:19 chinese people don't like to do :CC 2011-11-25 11:19 rejon_, I will forward this email to you. 2011-11-25 11:19 ok cool 2011-11-25 11:20 we have a thxgiving party that evening 2011-11-25 11:20 so she must want to try it there 2011-11-25 11:20 gbraad, we having a meetup at 3 pm 2011-11-25 11:20 sharism 2011-11-25 11:20 at fisheye cafe 2011-11-25 11:20 we will flesh out openwrt + html5 more 2011-11-25 11:20 you should come! 2011-11-25 11:20 bring pasi 2011-11-25 11:21 rejon_, hmm... I think a people working on openwrt router in Beijing, do you want more people :) 2011-11-25 11:22 sure 2011-11-25 11:22 s/I think/I know 2011-11-25 11:22 will be like an openwrt flash mob 2011-11-25 11:22 ok. he buy a Nanonote. then switch to create his own openwrt router. :) 2011-11-25 11:22 want to flesh out how we can get test suite for openwrt + netsurf to get minimal html5 compliance 2011-11-25 11:22 yah, i need to flash mine 2011-11-25 11:24 Ayla joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 11:45 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 11:54 kristianpaul joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 11:59 SoulRaven joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 12:02 rejon_, CC you another email. :) 2011-11-25 12:04 great 2011-11-25 12:05 jivs joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 12:21 rejon_, updated to latest version and packaged well 2011-11-25 12:46 morning 2011-11-25 12:47 xiangfu, hi, the new toolchain now has the wpan support for the atben 2011-11-25 12:47 good morning! 2011-11-25 12:48 do I still need zigbee? 2011-11-25 12:56 zedstar_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 13:14 lekernel joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 13:14 what is that LED power supply? 2011-11-25 13:20 there are some logs about it, you may found interesting uses a CPLD 2011-11-25 13:22 looks like a hideously complex way of powering a LED :) 2011-11-25 13:24 fancy indeed, but still interesting 2011-11-25 13:25 http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2011-10-15.log.html#t23:12 2011-11-25 13:25 http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2011-11-15.log.html#t08:03 2011-11-25 13:27 i kinda wonder what it does with all those coils. does it connect to mains ? 2011-11-25 13:28 i wonder how long batteries hold 2011-11-25 13:30 um.. why the fsck. does it need an cpld to drive a led? 2011-11-25 13:31 i remenber, the person behind is involved the IC design 2011-11-25 13:36 that's just a lamp? 2011-11-25 13:38 2011-11-25 13:38 seems so. a 70W led driver 2011-11-25 13:44 kristoffer joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 13:56 antoniodariush, the new release support atBen. 2011-11-25 13:57 antoniodariush, I think it still not support zigbee. there are some code in kernel but not enable. 2011-11-25 13:57 yes, I compile all the necessary packages on the toolchain successfully 2011-11-25 13:57 antoniodariush, (zigbee) depends what you want. the new release already support TCP under atBen. 2011-11-25 13:58 so it should work with just the packages from the toolchain ? 2011-11-25 13:58 antoniodariush, you have both atBen and atUsb? or two nanonote and two atBen? 2011-11-25 13:59 two nanonotes and two atBen yes 2011-11-25 13:59 antoniodariush, sorry. what packages you mean? the package you compiled? 2011-11-25 13:59 antoniodariush, cool. great. 2011-11-25 14:00 i mean in the toolchain we need to select all the required drivers and stuff 2011-11-25 14:01 antoniodariush, you mean SDK. yes. we needs select those tools: http://pastebin.com/Lg3sgCbS 2011-11-25 14:02 let me check my toolchain 2011-11-25 14:02 yes, led driver/power supply 2011-11-25 14:02 there's not much else to the project right now than us helping Deng a little with review and feedback 2011-11-25 14:03 in fact I'm not sure whether/how Deng will continue, that's up to him 2011-11-25 14:03 antoniodariush, sorry. I am a little lose. about toolchain: what do you mean? the SDK under here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/latest/? or you compile the whole openwrt by yourself. 2011-11-25 14:04 the second 2011-11-25 14:05 antoniodariush, ok. got it. 2011-11-25 14:06 xiangfu, I had the atbens working but following werner's instructions http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/install/INSTALL-Ben 2011-11-25 14:06 but now that everything is in the toolchain i'm looking forward to simplify few things :) 2011-11-25 14:07 antoniodariush: if we can help you simplify more, on the software side, please let us know 2011-11-25 14:07 we'd love to do that 2011-11-25 14:07 sure 2011-11-25 14:08 anyway I have these selected already http://pastebin.com/Lg3sgCbS 2011-11-25 14:10 wpwrak: kristianpaul lekernel roh : since you guys asked about the led supply, a quick background 2011-11-25 14:11 basically it's a chinese friend who quit his job and is working on this board 2011-11-25 14:11 I don't fully understand the background of his work or business idea 2011-11-25 14:11 but he understands the gpl, is very open minded about 'open', etc. 2011-11-25 14:11 so I offered help in hosting his files, helping a bit with review, cleanup, process, translation to English, etc. 2011-11-25 14:11 that's all very nice. but what on earth is the board doing ? ;-)) 2011-11-25 14:12 but he has to drive it forward, it's his board and project. if he stops, the project stops and the files stay there for whatever future benefit (or none) 2011-11-25 14:12 there's a video, no? 2011-11-25 14:12 antoniodariush, if you use the latest openwrt-xborst.git commit. it already included all patch about atBen. 2011-11-25 14:12 it's a led power supply 2011-11-25 14:12 I cannot qualify this project 2011-11-25 14:12 antoniodariush, yes. after you select those packages. you have everything you need :) 2011-11-25 14:12 I only provide the project server, translation, some review, process, etc. 2011-11-25 14:12 for example it might be a good boom test case for me :-) (though I doubt I get to it) 2011-11-25 14:12 i wonder why the board is so complex. is it driven from mains ? 2011-11-25 14:13 yes I think so 2011-11-25 14:13 I know very little, that's one of the goals of pulling it out into the open 2011-11-25 14:13 we have to see where Deng takes this 2011-11-25 14:15 xiangfu, excellent, thanks. 2011-11-25 14:16 antoniodariush, keep up update about your two nanonotes. cool. what are you plan on this ? (just want know more about atBen :) 2011-11-25 14:16 I mean keep us(people here) update. :) 2011-11-25 14:21 I (actually we) always keep you people updated :) 2011-11-25 14:22 wolfspraul, did you watch the video ? 2011-11-25 14:22 yes 2011-11-25 14:22 a little confusing :-) 2011-11-25 14:22 but it looks cool - I think about all the Bens I sold! 2011-11-25 14:26 yes we have plenty 2011-11-25 14:27 stefan_schmidt joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 14:33 wolfspraul: mechanical side for this led lamp still WIP? 2011-11-25 14:35 he 2011-11-25 14:35 dream-in-progress 2011-11-25 14:35 the led array would be a standard one, this project is just the power supply 2011-11-25 14:35 ok :) 2011-11-25 14:35 and no mechanical at all, the idea is to maybe look for automotive customers (deng's idea, not mine) 2011-11-25 14:36 hum i see 2011-11-25 14:36 led lamps are shooting up everywhere now, I really cannot tell much about the differences etc. 2011-11-25 14:36 but I read for example that the new Boeing 787 has a spectactular LED lighting system, guess I have to fly with one to see it for myself :-) 2011-11-25 14:36 hhaha 2011-11-25 14:37 antgreen joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 14:37 hmmm. http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/70w-led-driver.html 2011-11-25 14:38 antoniodariush, oh. where is the video url? 2011-11-25 14:39 http://theclashingrocks.org/wiki/doku.php?id=tcr:pics_video 2011-11-25 14:39 kristianpaul: newlib bsp for moxie? it depends what you mean by that. libgloss (in the same src repo as newlib) hooks into the gdb simulator and qemu port for IO, etc. 2011-11-25 14:39 uhm. seems there is a chip for that 2011-11-25 14:40 www.micrel.com/_PDF/mic3230.pdf 2011-11-25 14:40 kristianpaul: for the gdb simulator, the simulator intercepts software interrupts (swi instruction) to do I/O. 2011-11-25 14:40 antgreen: sorry, i just wanted to know how you ported implemented stdio for your soc 2011-11-25 14:40 hum 2011-11-25 14:40 for qemu, I model memory mapped IO devices 2011-11-25 14:41 libgloss is built for both versions, and you specify one or another with different linker scripts. 2011-11-25 14:41 ah :), well i need learn more about qemu later 2011-11-25 14:42 is there a milkymist qemu port? 2011-11-25 14:42 yes 2011-11-25 14:43 i thin is upstream now but be aware of http://milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Using_QEMU 2011-11-25 14:44 must go, back later, thanks for explanation antgreen :) 2011-11-25 14:44 np 2011-11-25 14:48 !tweet checkout this http://theclashingrocks.org/wiki/doku.php?id=tcr:pics_video 2011-11-25 14:48 Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware 2011-11-25 14:49 :) 2011-11-25 14:49 :-) 2011-11-25 14:51 :-) 2011-11-25 14:52 wolfspraul: ping 2011-11-25 14:52 wpwrak: ping 2011-11-25 14:52 yes 2011-11-25 14:57 pong 2011-11-25 15:48 urandom__ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:17 [Sou|Raven] joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:17 [Sou|Raven] joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:18 [Sou|Raven] joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:19 [Sou|Raven] joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:26 SoulRaven joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:26 SoulRaven joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:26 SoulRaven joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:26 SoulRaven joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:29 GNUtoo joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 16:47 SoulRaven joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 17:19 mstevens joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 17:22 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 18:23 lekernel joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 19:14 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 19:25 GNUtoo joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 20:01 Artyom joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 20:06 hello Artyom 2011-11-25 20:09 btw i'm wokring to make my local changes to upstream 2011-11-25 20:09 later i will bug you about osgps, wich i notiched the isr is not fully implemented, just polling isnt? 2011-11-25 20:13 hum, good point 2011-11-25 20:14 yeah, I used polling. (I had some troubles with ISR for GPIO in ARM7 and didn't want to spent time on them) 2011-11-25 20:16 Do you think full osgs can run on that arm7 mcu? 2011-11-25 20:17 I tried it on my 333Mhz nanonote and it felt not very happy... ah but of course correaltors were gp2021 in software not namuru 2011-11-25 20:18 may be algortym to get fix point is not very cpu ungry, i havent check it yet.. 2011-11-25 20:19 btw Artyom , had you seen this http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm ? 2011-11-25 20:20 arm7 should work fine because there is gpl-gps project which runs on ARM7 (about 30 or 50 MHz) 2011-11-25 20:20 ah yes 2011-11-25 20:20 and gpl-gps is based on osgps 2011-11-25 20:23 And position solution is not cpu hungry. Usualy position is calculated every second and it's not so often as tracking loops updating 2011-11-25 20:27 I've seen this project (Homemade GPS Receiver) but I don't like it. The source code is poor commented and not very clear (like in MM ;) ) 2011-11-25 20:30 Ayla joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 20:32 yes i agree 2011-11-25 20:32 what call me atention is the RF DIY receiver part 2011-11-25 20:34 (Sorry, what is DIY stand for?) 2011-11-25 20:34 do it your self 2011-11-25 20:36 Artyom: so, you make flterm work your board also? 2011-11-25 20:37 Not yet, I had no enough time to experiment with flterm. And there is one potential problem that must be solved before. 2011-11-25 20:43 And I also have to prepare some demo-program. The stadard are not for my board 2011-11-25 20:43 Jay7 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-25 20:47 wich kind of demo progam you mean? for osgps mod? 2011-11-25 20:50 no, I mean that for testing flterm I could use a program in /software/demo directory. But I can't do it because my board differes from M1. So I have to write my own, or simplify existing ;) 2011-11-25 20:55 ah yes of course that demo.. (wich i never ran before... and i should :-)) 2011-11-25 20:56 :))) (It seems that I do many stupid things that you didn't even try to ;) ) 2011-11-25 20:57 he no just i met milkymist when demo was not needed, i mean flickernoise wich is the VJ* apps was ready 2011-11-25 20:57 so i dint get interested,but seems it cames with some debug facilites i should try someday 2011-11-25 20:58 ready written for rtems 2011-11-25 20:59 btw did you test RTEMS on your board? Did you write any additional (pgrogram/task/thread?)? 2011-11-25 21:00 I think I've read that M1 uses RTEMS as a base? 2011-11-25 21:00 yeah well rtems is the better supporte OS in terms of working drivers 2011-11-25 21:00 and yes i had tried rtems before 2011-11-25 21:01 i just moved to baremetal meanwhile i get sure all works fine (as i got some hangs in the pst) 2011-11-25 21:01 What drivers do you mean? 2011-11-25 21:02 ethernet (best tcp/ip stack than bios too), memory card (read only support), yaffs for NOR wich is a big plus as the only non-volatile file system with write support 2011-11-25 21:02 and framebuffer 2011-11-25 21:03 there is also a fpu but i dont know how usefull could be for us 2011-11-25 21:03 about programs.. well i tried a bit very basic sstuff, i dont get in to task/threads 2011-11-25 21:04 fpu can be usefull for tracking loops and for position calculation (What math functions does it support?) 2011-11-25 21:04 i need to learn more about that, also rtems have a messae passing system 2011-11-25 21:05 sorry is pfpu 2011-11-25 21:05 datasheet here http://milkymist.org/socdoc/pfpu.pdf 2011-11-25 21:05 yeah, this part I've already seen... 2011-11-25 21:05 something usefull in there? 2011-11-25 21:06 cos sin.... well i dont know all the math in position calculation, i guess is a kind of big matrix? :-) 2011-11-25 21:07 Not sure... But I think that new operations can added. It's open source :) 2011-11-25 21:07 :-) 2011-11-25 21:09 for tracking loops how usefull can be? 2011-11-25 21:10 i was actually thinking in a dedicated lm32 core for that maye be to much ? 2011-11-25 21:10 may be atan calculation... But many thing must be checked... 2011-11-25 21:11 dedicated lm32 core only for tracking? ;) Sounds unusual but interesting ;) 2011-11-25 21:12 lol 2011-11-25 21:12 well as i said i was checking some gps baseband chips other days 2011-11-25 21:12 most of then include an arm procesor and a minimal soc with the correlators and other stuff 2011-11-25 21:12 but anyway just an idea 2011-11-25 21:13 what chips did you check? 2011-11-25 21:13 I remember nj1006 (or similar) It contains leon+peripheral+correlator 2011-11-25 21:13 oh leon :) 2011-11-25 21:14 just a ATR0625P from atmel 2011-11-25 21:14 and gp4021 (or similar): arm+correlator 2011-11-25 21:14 Do you leon? Did you test it? 2011-11-25 21:14 afaik no 2011-11-25 21:15 i just know it was in space because have a fault tolerance system 2011-11-25 21:16 I think Carlos know more about it... ;) 2011-11-25 21:16 yes he was doing benchmarking lm32 vs leon :D 2011-11-25 21:16 with linux 2011-11-25 21:17 Have you seen any results? 2011-11-25 21:17 nope, actually long time since i dont see carlos here 2011-11-25 21:18 i think was univesity asigment, dunno if got in a hurry and... 2011-11-25 21:22 btw is it possible to have couple lm32 cores in one FPGA? Did you try to do it? 2011-11-25 21:23 good questions, lekernel said yes is likely posible 2011-11-25 21:24 and how to transmit data between them? 2011-11-25 21:24 is it possible to have two cores on one wb-bus? 2011-11-25 21:24 yes 2011-11-25 21:24 several masters and use DMA 2011-11-25 21:24 i guess 2011-11-25 21:25 (dma part) 2011-11-25 21:25 or implement a wishbone switch (milkymist used it before) 2011-11-25 21:26 Have you ever seen FFT implementation for FPGA (as a separate core)? 2011-11-25 21:26 urghh no :) 2011-11-25 21:27 FFT is very ungry in reources i think 2011-11-25 21:27 may be, I didn't think about it ;) 2011-11-25 21:28 and most sutiable for software based processing (Ghz..)? (correct me in that one) 2011-11-25 21:28 at least in some books about GPS software aprouch imedialy skip serial processing and jump to fft 2011-11-25 21:28 of course they dont use a fpga likes us :) 2011-11-25 21:29 FFT for software? I think it can be parallelized and that's a good task for FPGA. 2011-11-25 21:29 hum.. perhaps i need read more 2011-11-25 21:29 In books they don't use serial approach because it's toooooo slow for software. 2011-11-25 21:30 :D 2011-11-25 21:30 But at the same time it's very simple for hardware :) 2011-11-25 21:30 but fft is required for acquisition , tracking loops and ... 2011-11-25 21:30 yeah 2011-11-25 21:30 fft is for acquisition only (as I understand) 2011-11-25 21:32 fft also needs too much routing, oh hell 2011-11-25 21:33 back in a minute out for a snack 2011-11-25 21:33 Kristianpaul, it's time to leave for me... 2011-11-25 21:34 too late... 2011-11-25 21:34 have nice sleep then 2011-11-25 21:35 thanks! bye! :) 2011-11-25 22:27 freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware