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2011-11-23 02:16 <qi-bot> xiangfu: RT @qihardware : #Milkymist One bugfixes available. If your M1 freezes, upgrade! (Just connect it to the internet and press the left button ( 139165075201196032@xiangfu - 47s ago via Ping.fm )
2011-11-23 02:17 <wolfspraul> kyak: twitter parentheses still there
2011-11-23 02:20 <xiangfu> !tweet a new release 2011-11-13 for Ben Nanonote come out. http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/OpenWrt_Software_Image#Image_2011-11-13
2011-11-23 02:20 <qi-bot> Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware ( 139166305633841152@qihardware - 1s ago via qi-bot )
2011-11-23 02:21 <wolfspraul> even more clutter. now we get a "Tweet created" message. Can we remove it?
2011-11-23 02:22 <woakas> http://bit.ly/tZiiNm
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2011-11-23 06:36 <kyak> !tweet a humble test 3
2011-11-23 06:36 <qi-bot> Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware
2011-11-23 06:36 <kyak> hm
2011-11-23 06:36 <kyak> now it's probably too less information
2011-11-23 06:37 <kyak> wolfspraul: what do you think? Could you mention @qihardware, too?
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2011-11-23 06:51 <wolfspraul> kyak: don't understand
2011-11-23 06:52 <wolfspraul> can we not have the "Tweet created" line at all?
2011-11-23 06:52 <kyak> yeah
2011-11-23 06:52 <wolfspraul> I mean, we know already because we just had the tweet command in the chat...
2011-11-23 06:52 <kyak> then what's left?
2011-11-23 06:52 <wolfspraul> nothing
2011-11-23 06:52 <wolfspraul> when someone tweets here, why have another confirmation from the bot?
2011-11-23 06:52 <kyak> then how do you know if the command actually succedded?
2011-11-23 06:52 <wolfspraul> since the tweet command itself is already in the channel
2011-11-23 06:52 <kyak> it could be a netspliy
2011-11-23 06:53 <wolfspraul> true we don't know, but what can go wrong?
2011-11-23 06:53 <wolfspraul> ah
2011-11-23 06:53 <kyak> or a loss of connection
2011-11-23 06:53 <kyak> who know
2011-11-23 06:53 <wolfspraul> people can just check twitter if they really want to confirm
2011-11-23 06:53 <kyak> i can't be sure that my tweet was actually created, and i need to go to web, and then it doesn't make sense at all :)
2011-11-23 06:53 <kyak> yeah
2011-11-23 06:53 <kyak> that's what i'm saying :)
2011-11-23 06:54 <kyak> need to open twitter anyway
2011-11-23 06:54 <kyak> there must be some confirmation
2011-11-23 06:54 <kyak> that's a basic concept of irc commands
2011-11-23 06:54 <wolfspraul> well then :-)
2011-11-23 06:54 <wolfspraul> is it hard to remove? or easy?
2011-11-23 06:55 <kyak> it's super easy
2011-11-23 06:55 <wolfspraul> I still think that second line is just noise
2011-11-23 06:55 <wolfspraul> 100% noise
2011-11-23 06:55 <kyak> the second?
2011-11-23 06:55 <wolfspraul> yes, this one: <@qi-bot>  Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware
2011-11-23 06:55 <kyak> i'd sa, this is the first line :)
2011-11-23 06:56 <wolfspraul> no, the first thing I see is this: < kyak> !tweet a humble test 3
2011-11-23 06:56 <wolfspraul> and that's enough, I can assume that it went through
2011-11-23 06:56 <kyak> you can't be sure i actually received your last message, can you?
2011-11-23 06:57 <kyak> no say something and imaging i just disconnected my cable; or you were disconnected
2011-11-23 06:57 <kyak> do you like it? :)
2011-11-23 06:57 <wolfspraul> ok if you like that second confirmation, so be it
2011-11-23 06:58 <wolfspraul> I think the tweet command itself is enough
2011-11-23 06:58 <kyak> this is the first confirmation, why the second??
2011-11-23 06:58 <wolfspraul> that is a confirmation as well, or if there really is a network failure one can track down and double-check in twitter itself
2011-11-23 07:00 <wolfspraul> but you know this stuff better, maybe you are right and many others would feel like you
2011-11-23 07:00 <wolfspraul> leave it so that you think it's good
2011-11-23 07:16 <kyak> ok.. let's see how mentions work
2011-11-23 07:28 <xiangfu> is the kernel.org build kernel for nanonote(jz4740) ?
2011-11-23 07:35 <xiangfu> how can we make that happen.
2011-11-23 07:36 <kyak> i think it has the nanonote_config
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2011-11-23 08:17 <xiangfu> !tweet using nanonote by cenobyte: "I left listener on for about 15 minutes and conversed with my brother and it picked up everything. Thanks for the 'aplay' tip and what an interesting program to hack with!"
2011-11-23 08:17 <qi-bot> Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware [truncated] (...ed up everything. Th>|<anks for the 'aplay' ...)
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2011-11-23 08:56 * xiangfu try to compile xburst-tools under ben nanonote. try to fix : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613610
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2011-11-23 09:08 <wolfspraul> xiangfu: cool! :-)
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2011-11-23 09:54 <dvdk> xiangfu: about debiang bug 613610: I have a loongson MIPS server running 24/7 here, installed with debian squeeze.  if you need login access, just mail me your public ssh key.
2011-11-23 09:55 <xiangfu> dvdk, great.
2011-11-23 09:56 <dvdk> it's on dyndns, ip-address changing once per day, but as long as you login w/ 'screen' that shouldn't be a problem
2011-11-23 10:08 <xiangfu> dvdk, let's see how debian under nanonote works. :) if not works well , I will try to do that in your MIPS server. :)
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2011-11-23 10:48 <kyak> dvdk: cool, where did you get the machine?
2011-11-23 10:54 <dvdk> kyak: it's a fuloong 6004 bought from hackable devices
2011-11-23 10:54 <dvdk> (fuloong 6014?)
2011-11-23 10:54 <dvdk> see here http://mosquito.dyndns.tv/opentrac/free
2011-11-23 10:57 <kyak> very nice :) but there is only one Ethernet port?
2011-11-23 10:57 <dvdk> kyak: that's not a problem.  extensively using vlans
2011-11-23 10:58 <dvdk> (one vlan fed from a openwrt router, directly bridging the wlan into it)
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2011-11-23 10:59 <kyak> http://hackable-devices.org/shop/product/lemote-fuloong-mini-pc-fl6004
2011-11-23 10:59 <kyak> did you disassemble it?
2011-11-23 11:00 <dvdk> only to mak ethe fotos/check the cooler and add a larger hard-disk.
2011-11-23 11:00 <dvdk> it's assembled now, serving the web-page you saw
2011-11-23 11:01 <kyak> http://www.shuttle.eu/index.php?id=152&L=0
2011-11-23 11:01 <kyak> and this is my server :)
2011-11-23 11:01 <kyak> slightly less cool
2011-11-23 11:02 <dvdk> not bad.  does it sit on the public internet?
2011-11-23 11:02 <kyak> though much more powerful
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2011-11-23 11:02 <kyak> yes, it's on the internet; but not so public
2011-11-23 11:02 <dvdk> :)
2011-11-23 11:03 <kyak> i'm talking now from this server
2011-11-23 11:03 <kyak> it mostly serves my screen session :)
2011-11-23 11:04 <dvdk> BTW, my emacs, running the irc-chat, is also running on my fuloong box (ssh -X)
2011-11-23 11:05 <kyak> what are other distros supporting mips besides debian? i think it's arch, gentoo..?
2011-11-23 11:05 <dvdk> nixos?
2011-11-23 11:05 <dvdk> openwrt?
2011-11-23 11:05 <dvdk> but debian is all one needs, no?
2011-11-23 11:05 <dvdk> :)
2011-11-23 11:06 <kyak> i was talking about fully-fledged distros, of course :)
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2011-11-23 11:07 <kyak> i've migrated to arch linux on my desktop
2011-11-23 11:07 <kyak> from mandriva/mageia
2011-11-23 11:07 <kyak> due to their rolling releases
2011-11-23 11:07 <dvdk> my desktop is ubuntu, but latest release is pretty broken.  thinking about migrating back to debian (testing is also quasi rolling release)
2011-11-23 11:07 <kyak> i have a dream of never reinstalling OS on my PC again :)
2011-11-23 11:08 <dvdk> :)
2011-11-23 11:08 <kyak> arch has also got testing, but i'm not so brave as to try it
2011-11-23 11:08 <kyak> it's bleeding edge enough
2011-11-23 11:11 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: by the way, for the quarterly news, if it risks getting just too large, maybe make several volumes and post them 2-3 days apart ?
2011-11-23 11:12 <wolfspraul> yes
2011-11-23 11:14 <wolfspraul> arch seems nice, how about Fedora? I'm thinking about trying Fedora again (was a RedHat user back when it was 6.x)
2011-11-23 11:18 <wpwrak> (tweet creation) in fact, if it truncates, it should probably not create the tweet, but rather wait for a new command that already includes the trimming
2011-11-23 11:20 <wolfspraul> yes I agree. in fact that's a real use-case for feedback, an error message.
2011-11-23 11:20 <wolfspraul> it should not auto-truncate, it should reject saying how long the maximum is
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2011-11-23 11:22 <kyak> let me see if there is such a setting
2011-11-23 11:23 <kyak> btw, you can explicitely split the message by inserting \n (literally)
2011-11-23 11:26 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: not only say how long but show where. else, you get ten attempts trying to figure out where exactly this limit ends up :)
2011-11-23 11:27 <wpwrak> wysiwyg is good in this case :)
2011-11-23 11:28 <kyak> there is a "splitlong" script for irssi :)
2011-11-23 11:28 <kyak> it can split input messages in strings of arbitrary length and combine them with defined symbols
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2011-11-23 11:42 <wpwrak> kyak: you mean specifically for the irc-twitter-relay ?
2011-11-23 11:44 <kyak> no, it does it globally :)
2011-11-23 11:44 <kyak> ok, so i can send the "String is too long to post"
2011-11-23 11:44 <kyak> is it sufficient?
2011-11-23 11:45 <kyak> i can show where the limit ends up
2011-11-23 11:45 <wpwrak> canit indicate where it would have to be cut ? like the >|< ?
2011-11-23 11:45 <kyak> but it means posting the string to the channel again :)
2011-11-23 11:48 <wpwrak> just make it a single message. or send it directly to the originator :)
2011-11-23 11:54 <wpwrak> but better keep the response in the channel. that way, others can understand when someone keeps on re-posting a message
2011-11-23 11:59 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: afaik i have mipsel machine... but still interested i get xburst tools to run on it, what and how i should compile?
2011-11-23 12:01 <kristianpaul> ah yes fuloong is cool too :-)
2011-11-23 12:03 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, apply this patch to xburst-tools. and compile as usual.
2011-11-23 12:03 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, or just apt-get -b source xburst-tools
2011-11-23 12:04 <kristianpaul> for the record this is  my server http://pcengines.ch/alix3d3.htm and you also can listen a stream live sound from my city here http://locus.creacast.com:9001/buga_valle.ogg
2011-11-23 12:09 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, there is a dog. :)
2011-11-23 12:10 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, two dogs. :)
2011-11-23 12:12 <wolfspraul> I think no problem in showing the text a second time - this is an error case
2011-11-23 12:13 <kyak> !tweet This is a really long tweet, which i probably typed because IRC is so much better than twitter becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatever is the maximum message length for twitter; but this is not going to be sent to twitter, because if it is, this is going to be embarrassing
2011-11-23 12:13 <qi-bot> The tweet is too long! Split it somewhere after "...r becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatev..."
2011-11-23 12:13 <kyak> how does it look?
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2011-11-23 12:15 <xiangfu> kyak, great.
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2011-11-23 13:07 <jason_> hey guys
2011-11-23 13:08 <xiangfu> debuild needs real	15m12.473s under nanonote.
2011-11-23 13:10 <wpwrak> kyak: so where exactly would you split ? :) after "whatev" ?
2011-11-23 13:11 <wolfspraul> jason_: hi
2011-11-23 13:15 <jason_> hello
2011-11-23 13:20 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/NanoNote/xburst-tools/mipsel/
2011-11-23 13:20 <xiangfu> !twtte compile xburst-tools under nanonote: http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/NanoNote/xburst-tools/mipsel/
2011-11-23 13:20 <xiangfu> !tweet compile xburst-tools under Ben Nanonote: http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/NanoNote/xburst-tools/mipsel/
2011-11-23 13:20 <qi-bot> Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware
2011-11-23 13:21 <jason_> I think the new jz4755 kernel from dingoo will be out soon
2011-11-23 13:22 <jason_> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/11/gamegadget-new-open-source-linux-based.html
2011-11-23 13:23 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, check out http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/NanoNote/xburst-tools/mipsel/. you can try in your mipsel machine. :)
2011-11-23 13:27 <wolfspraul> xiangfu: I keep thinking what we can do with the 1.5 gb data partition on the Ben
2011-11-23 13:28 <xiangfu> most people here don't want that.
2011-11-23 13:28 <wolfspraul> on one side the 512 mb is pretty full and there are probably other neat things we could bundle
2011-11-23 13:28 <wolfspraul> don't want what?
2011-11-23 13:28 <wolfspraul> last time we changed the partition from 256mb to 512mb it took us a year or so until we had the last cases of people running into problems :-)
2011-11-23 13:29 <wolfspraul> our boot time got significantly faster, maybe good to have the remaining 1.5gb on/mounted by default
2011-11-23 13:29 <xiangfu> just ignore my message. (mis understand)
2011-11-23 13:29 <jason_> wolfspraul, ive been spending my days at what you would call a sweatshop, except its november
2011-11-23 13:30 <wolfspraul> and even if we plan to do some backup or encrypted or usb-mass-storage stuff, maybe all of this will be handled best with a loop-mounted file on the underlying ubifs?
2011-11-23 13:30 <wolfspraul> so a lot of things to consider
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2011-11-23 13:31 <wolfspraul> but somehow I feel we should address this otherwise by default we only use 25% of the local storage capacity on the Ben
2011-11-23 13:31 <wolfspraul> but what's the best way - not sure
2011-11-23 13:31 <wolfspraul> how long does ubifs mounting of the remaining 1.5gb take now?
2011-11-23 13:32 <xiangfu> wolfspraul, openwrt will do that background. will not change boot time.
2011-11-23 13:32 <xiangfu> wolfspraul, let me check the mounting time now.
2011-11-23 13:33 <wolfspraul> what we need to consider is better support for full backups, for encryption, for updating from and on the device (as opposed to reflashing)
2011-11-23 13:33 <wolfspraul> I want some way to very easily backup my entire Ben, and restore when needed
2011-11-23 13:34 <wolfspraul> also I want an easy way to encrypt it, whatever the details are exactly needs to be determined, but that whole thing should be encrypted... :-)
2011-11-23 13:34 <wolfspraul> finally we should update from the device
2011-11-23 13:35 <wolfspraul> I need to think about it more I guess. somehow those 1.5gb bug me :-)
2011-11-23 13:36 <xiangfu> time mtd.nn mount data /data : real 0m 1.80s
2011-11-23 13:37 <wolfspraul> wow
2011-11-23 13:37 <wolfspraul> well
2011-11-23 13:37 <wolfspraul> I don't know exactly what I want or what we should do, it just keeps bugging me
2011-11-23 13:38 <wolfspraul> the rough goals I think are: easy backup, easy encryption, easy update (from the device), easy access to full 2gb
2011-11-23 13:38 <wolfspraul> maybe we can go there step by step
2011-11-23 13:39 <wolfspraul> yes, I think we should not break usability for our existing users first. not another experience like the 256->512 switch.
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2011-11-23 13:50 <jason_> wolfspraul, would you like to see the copy left obamagotchi?
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2011-11-23 13:53 <wolfspraul> thanks for asking :-)
2011-11-23 13:55 <jason_> http://youtu.be/Uw1gnhkGH9Q
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2011-11-23 14:20 <kyak> wpwrak: you can refine the message, if you wish
2011-11-23 14:21 <kyak> wpwrak: but they say, "Enough is as good as a feast" :)
2011-11-23 14:24 <wpwrak> kyak: what i mean is that it's not obvious where the boundary is. e.g., does the ...text... mean that the boundary is somewhere inside the "text" ? i.e., i first thought it was the ">" until i realized it was part of the original message
2011-11-23 14:26 <wpwrak> kyak: it's not uncommon for systems that indicate a position in a text to show text before and after that text. so if you use ...text..., it can easily be interpreted as ...beforeafter...
2011-11-23 14:26 <wpwrak> kyak: in fact, i'm not entirely sure yet what is the intended interpretation ;-)
2011-11-23 14:28 <wpwrak> kyak: also, what does "somewhere after" mean ? how many characters after this do i have ? i would think the limit is "somewhere before" (<) or "not after this" (<=)
2011-11-23 14:30 <kyak> duh, just make your suggestion!
2011-11-23 14:33 <wpwrak> maybe "this would be the limit: ...text|" ?
2011-11-23 14:38 <kyak> sure, why not
2011-11-23 14:41 <kyak> !tweet This is a really long tweet, which i probably typed because IRC is so much better than twitter becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatever is the maximum message length for twitter; but this is not going to be sent to twitter, because if it is, this is going to be embarrassing
2011-11-23 14:41 <qi-bot> The tweet is too long! This would be the limit: ...r becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatev|
2011-11-23 14:41 <kyak> wpwrak: is it good? :)
2011-11-23 14:43 <wpwrak> excellent, thanks !
2011-11-23 14:44 <kyak> i'm glad everybody is satisfied (i hope) :)
2011-11-23 14:47 <wolfspraul> :-)
2011-11-23 14:47 <wolfspraul> kyak: THANK YOU for helping the twitter challenged...
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2011-11-23 14:51 <kyak> wolfspraul: i have a feeling this is not the end :) but it's ok till we get it polished
2011-11-23 15:03 <wolfspraul> kyak: do you have any thoughts on the Ben software features I mentioned earlier: backup, encryption, update
2011-11-23 15:03 <wolfspraul> which one is most important to you? (if any)
2011-11-23 15:03 <wolfspraul> and how do you solve it right now?
2011-11-23 15:04 <wolfspraul> they all seem to be intertwined to me
2011-11-23 15:04 <wolfspraul> I want my Ben to be fully backed up, fully encrypted, and always up-to-date :-) but how?
2011-11-23 15:04 <wolfspraul> any thoughts would be very appreciated (no rush, getting this right will require some time)
2011-11-23 15:05 <wolfspraul> also I want to do this in the most natural way possible, no big Ben-specific system that will just become a maintenance headache
2011-11-23 15:06 <wolfspraul> maybe I start looking for some backup/encryption tools first, the only thing I know is rsync...
2011-11-23 15:06 <kyak> i don't store anything important on Ben, so making a backup is not so important.. Though it should be very hard to set up with rsync
2011-11-23 15:07 <kyak> *shouldn't
2011-11-23 15:07 <wolfspraul> he yes, me neither [store anything important]
2011-11-23 15:07 <wolfspraul> if I have anything only on the Ben, I copy it to my notebook at the end of the day
2011-11-23 15:07 <kyak> and so i don't need encryption, too :)
2011-11-23 15:07 <wolfspraul> that's as much as I trust my Ben :-)
2011-11-23 15:07 <kyak> :)
2011-11-23 15:07 <wolfspraul> but I think we can do much better, we just need a strong and easily usable backup and encryption solution
2011-11-23 15:08 <wolfspraul> now that the fundamentals are mostly in place and slowly continue to improve, I think about that more and more
2011-11-23 15:09 <kyak> yea, probably all the necessary tools are there
2011-11-23 15:09 <kyak> just need to setup some scripts/hooks
2011-11-23 15:09 <kyak> i believe those or also available somewhere
2011-11-23 15:10 <wolfspraul> I will dig around for existing backup/encryption tools, maybe there is some good stuff
2011-11-23 15:25 <wolfspraul> kyak: two questions if you don't mind. how do you update your Ben? and do you use the 1.5gb partition?
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2011-11-23 15:39 <antoniodariush> hi guys
2011-11-23 15:40 <antoniodariush> wpwrak, i see now the software to run atben are inside the toolchain
2011-11-23 15:40 <antoniodariush> and the compilation went fine!
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2011-11-23 15:42 <ps2chiper> im back
2011-11-23 15:43 <antoniodariush> wpwrak, so do we still need zigbee?
2011-11-23 15:50 <wpwrak> antoniodariush: i haven't tried the latest release yet, but for the basics, it may be fine. the code has been untouch^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hstable for a good while
2011-11-23 15:51 <wpwrak> meanwhile, some improvements have been posted to linux-zigbee. so it may make sense to update from there.
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2011-11-23 16:12 <antoniodariush> wpwrak, so basically it's the same procedure we used to do but without the hassle of build the kernel and cross compile the library and software?
2011-11-23 16:14 <antoniodariush> my previous nickname was `antonio`, i'm the one who made the video with lots of nanonote connected with atbens  :)
2011-11-23 16:15 <wpwrak> (same procedure) yes, that's what i think xiangfu has done. not sure if anyone has tested it yet, though. maybe he did and it worked so perfectly that he didn't even mention it :)
2011-11-23 16:15 <wpwrak> yeah, the wireless mystery network :)
2011-11-23 16:16 <wolfspraul> antoniodariush: which video?
2011-11-23 16:16 <wolfspraul> is it freely licensed and do you have a download link?
2011-11-23 16:19 <antoniodariush> wpwrak, ok, at least the kernel and some software are already in the toolchain
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2011-11-23 16:19 <antoniodariush> wolfspraul, http://vimeo.com/27924004
2011-11-23 16:21 <antoniodariush> yes and you can download it from the wiki http://theclashingrocks.org/wiki/doku.php?id=tcr:pics_video
2011-11-23 16:21 <antoniodariush> we posted here few months ago
2011-11-23 16:26 <wolfspraul> wow I completely missed this
2011-11-23 16:26 <wolfspraul> I only get a "flash required" warning for the video though
2011-11-23 16:26 <wolfspraul> even though I have flash installed
2011-11-23 16:27 <wolfspraul> do you have a url to the video file?
2011-11-23 16:30 <antoniodariush> should be on the server let me check
2011-11-23 16:31 <wolfspraul> I only get that error but nothing to click on, so I cannot find the video file right now
2011-11-23 16:36 <kyak> wolfspraul: i update my Ben via reflash_ben.sh. It doesn't affect my data partition. Then i have this script that sets up Ben for me (like: hostname, date, timezone, mount data partition). Every time i change anything in Ben that is going to be overwritten by upgrade, i change the script. It's not too hard, and saves a lot of time after reflash
2011-11-23 16:36 <wolfspraul> antoniodariush: ah ok it points to vimeo.com, which I currently cannot access
2011-11-23 16:37 <wolfspraul> if you have a download link for a .mp4 or so that would be great, otherwise I check vimeo tomorrow
2011-11-23 16:37 <wolfspraul> kyak: he, ok. roughly like I do, only more automated.
2011-11-23 16:38 <antoniodariush> wolfspraul, i'm checking on the server just a sec
2011-11-23 16:41 <antoniodariush> wolfspraul, here www.theclashingrocks.org/video/ben_wpan.ogv
2011-11-23 16:41 <wolfspraul> nice
2011-11-23 16:41 <wolfspraul> will watch - thanks!
2011-11-23 16:41 <wolfspraul> I completely missed that video somehow...
2011-11-23 16:43 <antoniodariush> I hope you like the project
2011-11-23 16:43 <wolfspraul> will read more about it
2011-11-23 16:44 <antoniodariush> :)
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