2011-11-19 00:15 urandom__ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 00:59 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 01:00 Textmode joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 01:18 good morning 2011-11-19 01:35 zrafa joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 01:36 wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 01:40 wpwrak joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 02:30 wejp joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 02:46 * DocAvalanche moos evilly at wolfspraul 2011-11-19 02:47 got an offer for a gta04, courtesy anonymous sponsor 2011-11-19 02:48 fun detail, it's not THAT much away from what I specified for GTA04 when GTA04 was my baby 2011-11-19 02:49 too bad those chinese idiots were so greedy 2011-11-19 02:51 jlamothe joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 02:52 just when you're about to sign at STE ? :) 2011-11-19 02:52 We could've even outperformed Nokia 2011-11-19 02:52 outrunning the dead is easy :) 2011-11-19 02:52 what's the link from STE to GTA04? 2011-11-19 02:53 I cannot motivate myself about anything gta04 except watching it from the distance and trying to stay open-minded about it. 2011-11-19 02:53 wait .. you mean someone offered you a device ? or a project to make one ? 2011-11-19 02:53 ah, the golden delicious thing. i see 2011-11-19 02:54 but one thing is good - they do *everything* differently than I would, that means we try more different things in parallel :-) 2011-11-19 02:54 Goldelico Nick can do a jig of joy if I find some hours at weekend to deal with that shower radio resurrection 2011-11-19 02:54 wolfspraul: so they're doing it exactly like openmoko did ? :) 2011-11-19 02:54 how can this path ever lead to anything? argh 2011-11-19 02:54 ah no 2011-11-19 02:55 *I* was doomed ro use that case, *he* could've used any case he could find at free market 2011-11-19 02:55 finding cases may not be that easy. particularly if you depend on them to be available for a while :) 2011-11-19 02:55 well 2011-11-19 02:56 I think we built up quite some knowledge by now 2011-11-19 02:56 we know how professional Taiwan oem/odm industrial and mechanical design shops work 2011-11-19 02:56 wpwrak: WUT? 2011-11-19 02:56 we know how hackerspaces like raumfahrtagentur work 2011-11-19 02:56 we know how the shanzhai/shenzhen market works 2011-11-19 02:57 werner as usual did awesome and eye-opening work on details like scanning, counterweight, etc. 2011-11-19 02:57 wpwrak: buy $RANDOM_NOKIA_CASE by the dozen 2011-11-19 02:57 I'm very optimistic that we get the mechanical problem under control. 2011-11-19 02:58 wpwrak: tell me how much is a spare GTA02 case on free market 2011-11-19 02:59 hushing on design quality of GTA02 case 2011-11-19 02:59 DocAvalanche: *everything* they do is wrong, imho :-) 2011-11-19 03:00 but that means they must have some system of thoughts that is entirely different to my experiences - more power to them 2011-11-19 03:00 yeah, ack. but they deliver 2011-11-19 03:00 I agree with you, I can source plastic parts for high-volume western brand phones easily, from 1 to thousands to more 2011-11-19 03:00 DocAvalanche: they deliver what? 2011-11-19 03:01 a few boards that will barely work after years and are sold for 666 EUR? 2011-11-19 03:01 and eventually sb is going to sue blow them outa the water, for not complying XXX 2011-11-19 03:01 a speed of bugfixing and software maintenance that makes them go backwards with every month that passes 2011-11-19 03:01 meanwhile phone prices are dropping like a stone and investment money retreats from this entire category 2011-11-19 03:02 I truly with them all the best, but from my perspective I'd just lean back, sip a coffee or have a beer, and think :-) 2011-11-19 03:02 wish 2011-11-19 03:02 all the stuff we've seen 2011-11-19 03:02 geekphone 2011-11-19 03:02 I'm d'accord but there are manics that keep stuff going 2011-11-19 03:03 moto ezx 2011-11-19 03:03 maemo 2011-11-19 03:03 om 2011-11-19 03:03 road gmbh 2011-11-19 03:03 palm pre 2011-11-19 03:03 I'll take my tranquilizers now, prepare me coffee and popcorn, and then wait and see 2011-11-19 03:04 :-) 2011-11-19 03:04 while STE will force me to get up at 6:30 ne3xt week 2011-11-19 03:04 my plan is to continue to build the pieces necessary for a profitable manufacturing business 2011-11-19 03:04 bwahaha 2011-11-19 03:04 and once we have that we can build anything, small things first, then bigger ones. 2011-11-19 03:04 oh, there's also the huge changes in the soc industry 2011-11-19 03:05 30% of mobile socs are custom-made now, and growing 2011-11-19 03:05 #2 is qualcomm 2011-11-19 03:05 DocAvalanche: do they offer other incentives ? like free waterboarding in the lunch break ? :) 2011-11-19 03:05 dunno yet 2011-11-19 03:05 DocAvalanche: the chips you work on, what customers/products do they end up with? 2011-11-19 03:05 (I mean you work on at STE) 2011-11-19 03:06 seen shivering smokers outside the main entrance :-((( 2011-11-19 03:06 wolfspraul: 70% of world production 2011-11-19 03:06 LTE baseband? 2011-11-19 03:06 which feels kinda "boooh ey!" 2011-11-19 03:06 on the phone or base station side? 2011-11-19 03:07 yep LTE baseband 2011-11-19 03:07 MTE 2011-11-19 03:07 like USB sticks 2011-11-19 03:07 huh? you mean sold as modules? 2011-11-19 03:07 integrated with the AP or not? 2011-11-19 03:07 err 2011-11-19 03:07 lost me 2011-11-19 03:08 acme-shit builds an USB dongle for LTE, with a STE modem in it 2011-11-19 03:08 yeah we lost each other :-) just trying to understand which chips that is 2011-11-19 03:08 we now have a mole at analog devices, soon one at ST-E, let's see what other companies we still have to infiltrate ... 2011-11-19 03:09 freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 03:09 DocAvalanche: so you got that gta04 already? for free? 2011-11-19 03:11 not got it yet, got the offer to receive one, and "get inclided to inner circle" whatever that means 2011-11-19 03:11 s/i/u/. 2011-11-19 03:12 but above you say "they deliver" 2011-11-19 03:12 wpwrak: you seen the schematics? 2011-11-19 03:12 so far they deliver promises 2011-11-19 03:12 :-) 2011-11-19 03:13 yeah, gambling high 2011-11-19 03:13 almost at padora level 2011-11-19 03:13 nope. haven't been tracking it. 2011-11-19 03:13 wait 2011-11-19 03:13 some things are so crazy I cannot process, did you see the mail from the guy who wants to die as a soldier of New Poseidia on the Om list? 2011-11-19 03:14 dang, my pdf views always segfault after a few days, a cheers to KDE4 2011-11-19 03:15 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2011-November/065700.html 2011-11-19 03:15 wpwrak: almost your length level! :-) 2011-11-19 03:15 OM list? is that the folder tagged "12423 unread" on my kmail? 2011-11-19 03:17 DocAvalanche: it seems OpenPandora managed to secure a 350K EUR investment from their community, from a bunch of private investors via simple contract 2011-11-19 03:17 that's quite an amazing achievement 2011-11-19 03:18 tl;dr 2011-11-19 03:18 lovely. that's what i call determination ! we're such wimps. 2011-11-19 03:18 fun stuff about calypso though 2011-11-19 03:19 after years of unbelievably incompetence, and ripping off many of their customers (many of whom are still waiting to receive anything after 2+ years) 2011-11-19 03:19 wolfspraul: you should feel envious :-) 2011-11-19 03:19 wolfspraul: and a little embarrassed :) 2011-11-19 03:19 but the fact that the community investment worked is amazing, if it works... 2011-11-19 03:19 right now of course, more promises... 2011-11-19 03:19 I'm gonna sell 50 "I AM RICH" apps next week ;-P 2011-11-19 03:20 wolfspraul: and guilty. because you're not giving the community a better, more sincere project to invest in 2011-11-19 03:20 I'm grateful for every bit I learn and moving forward quite happily. takes some time to solve such complex puzzles. 2011-11-19 03:20 wpwrak: yes! That I agree with. 2011-11-19 03:20 I meant what I wrote above as a compliment. 2011-11-19 03:20 community investment could be a very good way to go, but watch out, OP right now is deep in promise land 2011-11-19 03:21 and they have a track record of breaking 99% of their promises for 3 years already 2011-11-19 03:21 so that will all change in January now? hmm... :-) 2011-11-19 03:21 but I like the idea of small community investments, with private contracts 2011-11-19 03:21 I bet I could come up with a "project" to collect 5 mio preorders in a month or two, just because people know I'd never do that 2011-11-19 03:22 did they aim for 350 kEUR ? or was that just what they managed to collect ? 2011-11-19 03:22 finance the next run 2011-11-19 03:22 * DocAvalanche feels like scientology founder now 2011-11-19 03:22 first they hire some new helpers etc. to try to cleanup some of the huge mess they are dragging behind 2011-11-19 03:22 I think it will end like everything else they did before, but anyway. 2011-11-19 03:22 the money is real, it will be spent 2011-11-19 03:22 BLAERGHH 2011-11-19 03:23 I wish I could spend it - for hookers, steak, and cocaine 2011-11-19 03:23 but where did the 350 kEUR figure come from ? what that what they set out to collect from the beginning ? or was that simply what they received in the allotted time ? 2011-11-19 03:24 that was as much as they needed per their calculation to finance the next run 2011-11-19 03:24 DocAvalanche: you're applying at the wrong places for that. try an investment bank :) 2011-11-19 03:24 and then they sent out contracts to community, and eventually had enough investors 2011-11-19 03:24 excellent. so maybe they could even have gotten more. 2011-11-19 03:24 of course these investors will loose their money, but there is so much money flying around, and someone has to spend it 2011-11-19 03:24 so, how much do you calculate Milkymist will need ? :) 2011-11-19 03:24 so why not OpenPandora... 2011-11-19 03:25 meh, I just build up a story about the incredible new STE module, that comes with source of LTE stack courtesy me, just I need 10E7 € to accomplish 2011-11-19 03:25 it 2011-11-19 03:25 's probably a good train to jump on 2011-11-19 03:25 yeah :-) depends on sales forecast, right? 2011-11-19 03:25 only conceptually 2011-11-19 03:25 there is extremely little to learn for me in OpenPandora 2011-11-19 03:26 the idea is new. there does seem to be money around. others may just wake up and get interested in the next opportunity. 2011-11-19 03:26 these investors will all loose their money 2011-11-19 03:26 I'm not interested in such a project. 2011-11-19 03:26 yes, if it is an opportunity 2011-11-19 03:26 well, we don't need to copy that part :) 2011-11-19 03:26 * DocAvalanche burps 2011-11-19 03:26 we need a sales forecast, strong customer, imho 2011-11-19 03:26 not interested in community-based financing ? or not interested in a financing a doomed project ? 2011-11-19 03:26 no news :-) 2011-11-19 03:27 one by one 2011-11-19 03:27 >> Bei mir hat sich ein Sponsor gemeldet, der u.a. Dir ein Board stiften möchte :) Sobald wir neue Board aus der Produktion bekommen.<< 2011-11-19 03:28 OpenPandora has potential I think. it's not open hardware though. THe execution is just atrocious. 2011-11-19 03:28 I am very interested in community-based financing. 2011-11-19 03:28 but it has to work, for the investors 2011-11-19 03:28 i'm not talking about openpandora. i don't care what they do :) 2011-11-19 03:28 I tend to trust Nick, but who the F* is that sponsor??? 2011-11-19 03:28 'doomed project' again depends on sales, demand 2011-11-19 03:28 and do you believe milkymist is something that can work for them ? 2011-11-19 03:29 we need to figure out where is demand, and for what 2011-11-19 03:29 I have no strong idea on demand, size of market right now. 2011-11-19 03:29 are are you already certain it will fail, and you'd rather have it fail with just your money ? 2011-11-19 03:29 s/are are/or are/ 2011-11-19 03:29 what is 'it'? 2011-11-19 03:29 milkymist 2011-11-19 03:29 free technology cannot fail, it stays around 2011-11-19 03:29 only a business can fail to generate profits 2011-11-19 03:29 commercially 2011-11-19 03:30 correct that needs customers who want to buy 2011-11-19 03:30 so... back to sales 2011-11-19 03:30 plan b would be to be a bit bolder, and ask for sponsors. make no promise about returns. maybe even exclude them from the beginning. 2011-11-19 03:30 maybe I'd enjoy this convo when we'd sit together in that bagels caffe in TPE - on IRC though... 2011-11-19 03:32 i didn't like the bagels conversation so much. i feel naked without a beer in my hand :) 2011-11-19 03:32 after/if/when we make open hardware work, we'll get back together for sure :-) 2011-11-19 03:32 and 2 beer for werner 2011-11-19 03:33 wtf is "inner circle" ??? 2011-11-19 03:34 I got those droogies all mad when mentioning I might figure to port maemo to GTA04 ;-P 2011-11-19 03:37 it's depressing the best integration of messaging, GSM calls, SIP VoIP, skype, and contacts, is still with some close source shit Nokia threw over the wall 2011-11-19 03:38 and yeah, you bet you never fix the flaws this shot comes with 2011-11-19 03:38 they didn't like the idea of you porting maemo to gta04? 2011-11-19 03:38 shit, but meh 2011-11-19 03:38 i think smartphones are currently too much under pressure. not a good place to be with open hardware. 2011-11-19 03:38 (not that it wouldn't be far too much work...) 2011-11-19 03:38 yes! 2011-11-19 03:39 fully agree 2011-11-19 03:40 openmoko was there in time, before the frenzy began. but didn't deliver 2011-11-19 03:40 knowing what I know now, it was a mission impossible from day 1 2011-11-19 03:40 then the elephants entered the playground 2011-11-19 03:41 i do't know if it was all that impossible 2011-11-19 03:41 they entered many years before 2011-11-19 03:41 we got now: SHR, QtMoko, Maemo, Meego, Buntkuh/gentoo/younameit, and except of Maemo nuttin is ready for primetime, and Maemo is only working with blobs 2011-11-19 03:41 both Apple and Android (Danger) 2011-11-19 03:41 it would have been difficult to upgrade the telephony specs, but the rest wasn't too far off 2011-11-19 03:41 totally impossible 2011-11-19 03:41 why ? 2011-11-19 03:42 you need continuous investments over several hundred million USD, for years 2011-11-19 03:43 i don't think it could have reached such volumes. but a choice for a sector interested in openness, yes 2011-11-19 03:43 meh, you need a community that'S not changing focus when it comes to the last 10% that are annoying and boring to do 2011-11-19 03:43 I think we can compare an iphone/android to a Boeing 777 or Airbus 380 2011-11-19 03:43 and that's really *all* you need 2011-11-19 03:43 let's say you want to be the third competitor next to Boeing & Airbus 2011-11-19 03:43 how do you do that? 2011-11-19 03:44 there are strategic government backed efforts towards that goal in Brazil, Russia, China, probably others 2011-11-19 03:44 you make slightly different planes. embraer are quite successful with that :) 2011-11-19 03:44 so let's say infinite money, infinite time horizon 2011-11-19 03:44 but still hard! 2011-11-19 03:44 the Chinese started with airplane maintenance shops 2011-11-19 03:44 for many years 2011-11-19 03:45 then tires 2011-11-19 03:45 then more and more parts 2011-11-19 03:45 lots of companies 2011-11-19 03:45 all backed by essentially unlimited government credit lines 2011-11-19 03:45 well, that's the chinese approach :) 2011-11-19 03:45 * DocAvalanche wants an unlimeted personal credit line 2011-11-19 03:46 luckily we are far more flexible, we don't have to try to chase after or copy iphone or android phones 2011-11-19 03:46 exactly 2011-11-19 03:46 if we really wanted to do that, we need 5-10 years and hundreds of millions of USD if not more 2011-11-19 03:46 and by the time we are done, phones cost 20 USD and Apple makes their money elsewhere 2011-11-19 03:47 but definitely, Openmoko was doomed the day it was born 2011-11-19 03:47 after some years in this hardware business, I think I understand the trajectories a little better 2011-11-19 03:47 I don't give a shit about where $fruit makes money, nor do I care about Balmer's deao stick 2011-11-19 03:47 financing, volume, yield, returns, innovation, risk, etc. 2011-11-19 03:48 wolfspraul: funny you say that now, wasn't that sth I called you with a really foul mood sometime 00:45 in the night? 2011-11-19 03:48 but I think Openmoko helped a lot of people learn a lot :-) 2011-11-19 03:48 DocAvalanche: ahh :-) 2011-11-19 03:49 you're comparing apples and oranges. of course there's no point to try to compete in the race-to-the-bottom segment. but you can try to establish yourself in a niche where margins are better. 2011-11-19 03:49 I have no problem admitting I know nothing and learn from the masters like you. 2011-11-19 03:49 hard to beat your experience with a clear mind over how many years??? :-) 2011-11-19 03:49 but also that becomes impossible if the whole market is already happily in race-to-the-bottom mode 2011-11-19 03:49 sorry indeed, I was a clueless software guy back then... 2011-11-19 03:49 make hardware 2011-11-19 03:49 ;-) 2011-11-19 03:49 didn't work 2011-11-19 03:50 yes all agree 2011-11-19 03:50 I don't think it's such a bad 'race to bottom', I think the investments are made carefully and being recouped. 2011-11-19 03:50 the race to bottom segment is in greater China and they will jump ship as fast as they jumped onboard 2011-11-19 03:50 no need to spend our brain cells on them 2011-11-19 03:51 Asus is already denying discontinuing Android tablets :-) 2011-11-19 03:51 look at Amazon, they are far more professional. when will they have a phone? maybe 1-1.5 years from now? 2011-11-19 03:51 but indeed, we cannot compete with that. they have lots of pieces in place that cost billions in financing to build up. 2011-11-19 03:53 the problem are the copycats. once a product category has been commodized, they kill the margins 2011-11-19 03:54 wpwrak: (niche) not at all, see zoom-II, see dedicated inventory reader, rollerblade servant cashiers, whatnot 2011-11-19 03:54 not sure. where do you see that specifically? 2011-11-19 03:54 before openmoko, i had a project with philips. there, i heard about their little problems with making DVD players. what would you think about getting into DVD (or Blueray) players, say, today ? nice margins, eh ? ;-) 2011-11-19 03:54 DocAvalanche: say that again? you see business opportunities in those spaces or not? 2011-11-19 03:54 back than, it was just about to collapse 2011-11-19 03:55 I bet if we'd have followed my idea to go for a SAT-phone back when, OM was still alive. Well not really as I entered too late 2011-11-19 03:55 and it's happening with the phones now. the cheapsters are already trying to erode the android market 2011-11-19 03:55 ok but are the dvd & blueray makers profitable now? have they already recouped their investments and just running cash cows now? I think most companies are controlled, otherwise they will not be around too long. 2011-11-19 03:55 they're not quite competitive enough, but that's only a question of time 2011-11-19 03:56 wolfspraul: wait a minute, let me dig up a URL 2011-11-19 03:56 DocAvalanche: you mean a more targeted device? yes, today I would agree. but... I can also tell you it would have been flat out impossible, 100% impossible, to communicate this product within the Taiwanese management and financing environment. 2011-11-19 03:56 ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK 2011-11-19 03:56 :-((((((((((( 2011-11-19 03:56 also within EE 2011-11-19 03:57 everywhere 2011-11-19 03:57 the culture is consistent :-) 2011-11-19 03:57 it's not wrong 2011-11-19 03:57 yes, there is the problem. they like big volume because they're used to compete on price 2011-11-19 03:57 the left and right hand actually do the same thing :-) 2011-11-19 03:57 they absolutely cannot comprehend ideas like those, and then they cannot execute on them understandably 2011-11-19 03:58 I would not spend 1h of my time anymore to break through this or somehow unite or explain or whatever. 2011-11-19 03:58 some things are best kept as they are 2011-11-19 03:58 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Bluebird-Soft-BIP6000Max/ 2011-11-19 03:59 2k bucks 2011-11-19 03:59 +/- 2011-11-19 04:00 it's a tank 2011-11-19 04:00 for *real* work, and for real freaks 2011-11-19 04:01 yes 2011-11-19 04:01 And I bet my back we'd have sold as many of those as we did on GTA02, just at 7 times the price 2011-11-19 04:01 1600-2000 USD, Korean company 2011-11-19 04:02 yes it's possible and a worthwhile endeavor, but you need a strong gut on the marketing side, and it may fail still as a business 2011-11-19 04:02 but the pricing and all is right, product, etc. 2011-11-19 04:02 now - how many can they sell? 2011-11-19 04:02 and without the decay in sells 2011-11-19 04:02 I challenge you to find a Taiwanese company that can pull something like this off. 2011-11-19 04:03 it just doesn't work and will not happen for a variety of cultural reasons, extremely unlikely imho. 2011-11-19 04:03 how many sales can they generate? 2011-11-19 04:03 meh, I'd rather rely on goldelico than any korean fools to pull that off 2011-11-19 04:03 omg 2011-11-19 04:03 :-) 2011-11-19 04:04 so sales? how many? a few hundred? 2011-11-19 04:04 do they have potential customers in advance? 2011-11-19 04:04 is this product made for a big customer first, then put on the general market later? 2011-11-19 04:04 you easily can get a 10k sales for McDonals one week, and another 5k for Ikea to do their field material tracking next week 2011-11-19 04:04 yes but you have to have that contract first 2011-11-19 04:05 no, you have to have the product first, then offer to customers that didn't even know they need it 2011-11-19 04:06 ask mrmoku, when I posted that URL he went "dang, couldn't you tell that last week?! a customer searched for sth like that" 2011-11-19 04:06 some Apple stories seem to have gotten into you already :-) 2011-11-19 04:07 I am very interested in this kind of approach, and totally agree with you. But my next question would be about their potential customers and how it got started. 2011-11-19 04:07 I doubt they just make it because the CEO likes it just like that, Steve Jobs style. 2011-11-19 04:07 it's possible of course, but I doubt it and that would be my next question to find out about. 2011-11-19 04:07 prolly not 2011-11-19 04:08 no idea how to pull that off at business side 2011-11-19 04:08 but then OTOH OM wasn't great at that in the end of the day either, eh? 2011-11-19 04:08 Om was chasing a dream, I think we were quite good at that, no? :-) 2011-11-19 04:09 WE were, but mgmt/VC was insane I heard 2011-11-19 04:10 I think all fine, worth trying. 2011-11-19 04:10 written off in a heartbeat 2011-11-19 04:10 c'mon you offered me to buy a CMU200 and get it with me to Germany in Nov, and in Jan I got set free 2011-11-19 04:11 there has to be something terribly odd going on at capital side/management 2011-11-19 04:11 are the jumps in your dreams always logical? 2011-11-19 04:12 of course not, that's why I'm not billyboy gates though I'm for sure more competent than him 2011-11-19 04:13 the essential trick is to find *good* business lizards 2011-11-19 04:14 who optimize for *you* and your dream to come true, rather than shareholder value 2011-11-19 04:15 DocAvalanche: wolfspraul seems to be in one of his defeatist periods, so he has an argument for everything why it can't work. rememeber #1024 ? :) 2011-11-19 04:15 hehe 2011-11-19 04:19 ah wait, I have a practical question 2011-11-19 04:19 I have a meeting with some Tizen guy lined up 2011-11-19 04:19 good 2011-11-19 04:20 what is your take on Tizen? 2011-11-19 04:20 * DocAvalanche loves practical Q 2011-11-19 04:20 more practical than useless stories of the past... :-) 2011-11-19 04:20 I need to be *positive* with the Tizen guy :-) 2011-11-19 04:20 I heard they killed my GTA04 project, or was that some other shitty company? 2011-11-19 04:21 aaah Tizen, sorry 2011-11-19 04:21 what's the latest in maemo/meego n900/n950/nWhatever land? 2011-11-19 04:21 well, I think they needed another name, to segregate from meego-harmattan 2011-11-19 04:21 and : where is the upside? 2011-11-19 04:22 sorry I cannot follow on all this twists :-) but... what's the most positive thing you could expect from Tizen? 2011-11-19 04:22 where could it go? what products? what community? what financing? 2011-11-19 04:22 latest is N9 with meego-harmattan which actually is a maemo with meego skin 2011-11-19 04:24 for unclear reasons they slaughtered meego and created tizen. No idea if it's all the same, or yet another insane change of horses during middle of race 2011-11-19 04:24 the N9 is the one they only introduce in carefully selected markets so it cannot take off, right? 2011-11-19 04:25 all I can tell is meego imploded with a bang that's been louder than anything else I heard last few years 2011-11-19 04:25 hmm 2011-11-19 04:25 where are the maemo/meego community masses streaming to now? 2011-11-19 04:25 :-) 2011-11-19 04:25 yep, N9 isn't sold globally 2011-11-19 04:25 so they don't want to "canibalize" their win crap 2011-11-19 04:25 well yeah, I looked at the markets and saw some sinister attempt at making it fail :-) 2011-11-19 04:26 it's so obvious, the managers behind should line up for bigger and better things in politics or banking 2011-11-19 04:26 (masses) idling in zonbie state at #meego X-P 2011-11-19 04:26 hmm 2011-11-19 04:26 anybody excited about Tizen? 2011-11-19 04:26 not afaik 2011-11-19 04:27 ok 2011-11-19 04:27 thanks 2011-11-19 04:27 so what's that "tizen guy" ? a developer ? a device manufacturer ? intel ? 2011-11-19 04:27 nobody got the rationale behind it, and it's actually hard to see why we need to abandon meego now and what's the shiny thing, the tasty cookie on top of tizen 2011-11-19 04:28 it's probably just another "let's kick this out, it smells like Nokia" 2011-11-19 04:28 wpwrak: wait, need to check. Jon's work... 2011-11-19 04:29 who's johncylee? 2011-11-19 04:29 I'm just trying to find out about Tizen a bit more, since it's completely 100% out of my scope 2011-11-19 04:29 (found him at #openmoko-devel today) :-D 2011-11-19 04:30 I bought a Nokia N770 with great passion many years ago, but lost interest quickly because it was clear Nokia was not serious about it. that was it for me in that direction, then I joined Om next :-) 2011-11-19 04:30 I don't think I missed much at anything that came past the N770 2011-11-19 04:32 wpwrak: I think it's the CEO of a Chinese Android service provider 2011-11-19 04:32 I could imagine a swift "jump ship" movement of money-loosing Chinese Android manufacturers soon, maybe he wants to explore alternatives... 2011-11-19 04:33 all in motion, nothing specific, not even the meeting 2011-11-19 04:33 but I do my homework on Tizen at least 2011-11-19 04:35 /join #tizen 2011-11-19 04:35 CBA, they lost all credibility for me 2011-11-19 04:36 what's an android service provider ? 2011-11-19 04:36 carrier? 2011-11-19 04:36 app-store ? :) 2011-11-19 04:36 sw developer ? 2011-11-19 04:36 or that :-D 2011-11-19 04:39 the hard moments in life are when you work for a week to set up a topic minutes list for a community distro meeting for one week, and then *nobody* shows up at that meeting, not even the ones who suggested and agreed upon it 2011-11-19 04:39 so I felt like going out getting booze, but I seem to not feel any better 2011-11-19 04:40 so yuo set up a meeting ? 2011-11-19 04:41 nah, I only have tried to make the today's meeting more efficient that last week's where we missed some topics list 2011-11-19 04:42 I however pushed for maemo-CSSU Stable first release and hoped for Testing release rev17 being out since 4 days today 2011-11-19 04:44 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2011-11-18.log.html#t2011-11-18T20:09:15 2011-11-19 04:53 wpwrak: in China there's a whole bunch of companies helping manufacturers make Android work on their devices 2011-11-19 04:53 such as our oxlab friends in Taiwan :-) 2011-11-19 04:54 they can make real money right now, because the manufacturers are lost (of course), having been used to 'installing' stuff from Microsoft, and now thrown back to a 'git clone' level, they need someone bridge the gap from 'git clone' to 'install' 2011-11-19 04:54 that's a mad race to the bottom indeed 2011-11-19 04:55 you could make a herd study on all this :-) 2011-11-19 05:04 EmanuelZ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 05:04 EmanuelZ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 05:06 does anybody know zyth's email address? 2011-11-19 05:07 he tried to reach me a few days ago on irc, but now the contact broke off and I cannot find an email address in my archives... oh well... 2011-11-19 05:27 (android installer) sounds like fun :) 2011-11-19 06:33 skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 07:24 !seen zyth 2011-11-19 07:24 kyak, zyth (yura@95-27-28-26.broadband.corbina.ru) was last seen parting #qi-hardware 4 days 11 hours 27 minutes ago (14.11. 19:57), after spending 4 hours 7 minutes there. 2011-11-19 07:26 kyak: ah hi :-) when someone tweets about qihardware - will it be routed into the channel here? 2011-11-19 07:26 wolfspraul: it is routed here! :) 2011-11-19 07:27 you can try @mentioning 2011-11-19 07:27 wolfspraul: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zyth_2011/ 2011-11-19 07:27 perhaps you could PM him or find his e-mail there 2011-11-19 07:29 and everybody in the channel can tweet, too 2011-11-19 07:32 yes, perfect. let's see how this goes... 2011-11-19 07:58 rejon joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 08:26 vladislavkorotne joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 08:30 hey guys 2011-11-19 08:30 what's up? 2011-11-19 08:30 i have a problem here 2011-11-19 08:32 once i had some spare time today (finally!) I decided to play around with my NanoNote that was left on the desk in the beginning of september. First thing i did is changed the skin of Gmenu2x. then I pressed X to go back to the main menu, pressed L to switch to the next tab, but instead the screen just went black. When i powered it on, it booted OpenWRT as usual, but Gmenu2x didnt appear. Just black screen with backlight. Is this just becaus 2011-11-19 08:40 so... was there a reboot somewhere? 2011-11-19 08:40 it turned off on its own 2011-11-19 08:41 and still, after 5 minutes connected to usb, gmenu2x refuses to start 2011-11-19 08:41 so it boots, you see the kernel messages and openwrt, and then screen goes black? 2011-11-19 08:42 try ctrl-alt-f1 .. f5 2011-11-19 08:42 doesnt help 2011-11-19 08:42 well, if i press them BEFORE gmenu2x is supposed to appear, i get the console 2011-11-19 08:42 but then screen goes blank 2011-11-19 08:43 maybe just the screen saver? press the shift key or so to see whether it comes back on? 2011-11-19 08:43 it doesnt 2011-11-19 08:43 I had the impression I think in the 08-27 image that the screen blanking was way too fast, for my taste 2011-11-19 08:43 i use the one i built in may :P 2011-11-19 08:43 when i had ubifs problems 2011-11-19 08:43 if you have no original data on the device, how about reflashing to the new image? 2011-11-19 08:43 oh, I see [self-built] 2011-11-19 08:44 i have no linux machine at hand :( 2011-11-19 08:45 can i reflash on a mac? are there any binaries for the tools i need? 2011-11-19 08:47 better not, but I don't know 2011-11-19 08:47 maybe i can disable gmenu2x over ssh? 2011-11-19 08:48 rejon joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 08:51 looking closer at the logs reveals a FS problem :/ 2011-11-19 09:14 are there binaries of tools needed for flashing for debian? 2011-11-19 09:40 yes I think so 2011-11-19 09:40 in fact we have debian packages, no? 2011-11-19 09:40 yep i found em 2011-11-19 09:49 Ayla joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 09:52 vladislavkorotne left #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 10:41 kristoffer joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 10:54 rzk joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 11:11 urandom__ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 11:36 antgreen joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 12:22 Jay7 joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 12:52 kuribas joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 12:54 gbraad_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 13:32 kilae joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 13:50 [commit] Ayla: Removed per-application volume setting. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c7af4b1 2011-11-19 13:53 wejp joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 14:02 gnutoo_ joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 14:26 jekhor joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 14:41 [commit] Ayla: fbcon: use kstrtoint instead of deprecated function simple_strtoul. (jz-3.1) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/1ad417b 2011-11-19 14:42 vladislavkorotne joined #qi-hardware 2011-11-19 14:42