2011-11-05 00:43 <kristianpaul> talk run just on time..
2011-11-05 00:43 <kristianpaul> amazing how 23 slides nca take you long ..
2011-11-05 00:44 <kristianpaul> people got interesed on nanonote (again), let see if we can arrange a group buy :)
2011-11-05 00:44 <kristianpaul> sigh
2011-11-05 00:53 <wpwrak> nice :)
2011-11-05 01:11 <kristianpaul> even i got some posible client for sysmocom in the ecuator, i just point they to then
2011-11-05 01:12 <kristianpaul> now i need to confirm if the EE guys work with verilog, and the introduce M1 to then ;)
2011-11-05 10:54 <blogic> morning
2011-11-05 10:54 <blogic> wpwrak: pingy
2011-11-05 12:16 <wpwrak> blogic: pong
2011-11-05 13:40 <Ayla> hi
2011-11-05 13:41 <wolfspraul> hi
2011-11-05 13:41 <Ayla> what would be the best way to secure a communication channel between a device and a server?
2011-11-05 13:43 <wolfspraul> ssh?
2011-11-05 13:43 <wolfspraul> feel like in a quiz show ;-)
2011-11-05 13:43 <wolfspraul> what's the context?
2011-11-05 13:43 <Ayla> it's a project for school
2011-11-05 13:44 <Ayla> I have to connect securely a bunch of Android tablets to a server
2011-11-05 13:44 <Ayla> the tablet sends an user ID and a password
2011-11-05 13:44 <Ayla> but that shouldn't transit unencrypted
2011-11-05 13:45 <wolfspraul> does Android have ssh?
2011-11-05 13:45 <Ayla> err... maybe, but that's a bit overkill
2011-11-05 13:47 <Ayla> I'm thinking about using pre-shared keys
2011-11-05 13:49 <Ayla> but I'm not sure if it's the best idea, the server would have to know the key of each tablet
2011-11-05 13:49 <Ayla> unless all the tablets have the same private key, but then it's not that secure
2011-11-05 13:51 <xiangfu> Ayla, root the android. install busybox then openvpn :)
2011-11-05 13:52 <Ayla> that's not an option
2011-11-05 13:56 <wpwrak> ssl ? :)
2011-11-05 14:01 <Ayla> you mean tls
2011-11-05 14:01 <Ayla> that's what I'm talking about
2011-11-05 14:02 <blogic> android has pptp and ipsec build in
2011-11-05 14:02 <blogic> so that would work ootb
2011-11-05 14:13 <Ayla> and what would be the advantage of ipsec vs. using TLS directly for instance?
2011-11-05 14:14 <blogic> do you just want to send some data or do you want to tunnel all traffic ?
2011-11-05 14:14 <blogic> if you just need a secure webpage use ssl
2011-11-05 14:15 <blogic> if you want to tunnel lots of traffic use a vpn
2011-11-05 14:15 <blogic> and if you use vpn then ipsec and pptp will be working ootb
2011-11-05 14:15 <blogic> openvpn needs root + busybox
2011-11-05 14:15 <Ayla> I just need to send some data
2011-11-05 14:16 <Ayla> and just for one app
2011-11-05 14:16 <Ayla> vpn is a system-wide feature, we don't want that
2011-11-05 14:30 <blogic> use ssl then
2011-11-05 14:32 <Ayla> is it possible to cypher only one way, from the Android tablet to the server?
2011-11-05 14:32 <Ayla> something like HTTPS
2011-11-05 14:33 <Ayla> I need to secure only from the tablet to the server
2011-11-05 14:34 <blogic> wpwrak: what is newer
2011-11-05 14:35 <blogic> ah silly question
2011-11-05 14:35 <blogic> i am rebasing the wpan support on 3.1
2011-11-05 14:35 <blogic> trying to figure out what inside net/ieee802154/* from the qi-kernel is already in 3.1
2011-11-05 14:37 <qi-bot> The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-11042011-0846/
2011-11-05 14:38 <xiangfu> blogic, Hi
2011-11-05 14:38 <xiangfu> blogic, http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/0031-first-patch-for-atBen.patch
2011-11-05 14:38 <xiangfu> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/0032-disable-mmc.patch
2011-11-05 14:39 <xiangfu> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/0033-set-atben-GPIO-to-func_none.patch
2011-11-05 14:39 <xiangfu> blogic, I have done some works. 
2011-11-05 14:39 <blogic> me too
2011-11-05 14:39 <blogic> :E
2011-11-05 14:39 <blogic> lol
2011-11-05 14:39 <xiangfu> and we should move the set-atben-GPIO to spi_atben.c (to his module). now. it is in board-qi_lb60.c
2011-11-05 14:40 <blogic> i am usig the usb
2011-11-05 14:40 <blogic> i dont have a ben
2011-11-05 14:40 <blogic> http://phrozen.org/wpan.mk
2011-11-05 14:40 <xiangfu> blogic, thanks for the wpan.mk.
2011-11-05 14:41 <xiangfu> blogic, I am using two ben for test now. 
2011-11-05 14:41 <blogic> i will push it in owrt later
2011-11-05 14:41 <blogic> once the 3.1 update works
2011-11-05 14:42 <blogic> i also packaged dirtpan
2011-11-05 14:42 <blogic> what was the other thgn i need low6pan or so
2011-11-05 14:42 <blogic> *6lowpan
2011-11-05 14:43 <xiangfu> (packaged dirtpan)  yes. cool. I am using that one in openwrt-package. 
2011-11-05 14:44 <xiangfu> blogic, one question. what is 'fakehard' for? seems I don't needs this in ben nanonote. 
2011-11-05 14:44 <blogic> ah its there already ?
2011-11-05 14:44 <blogic> its a fakehw
2011-11-05 14:44 <blogic> and fakelr simulates a number of fakehard
2011-11-05 14:44 <blogic> i think :D
2011-11-05 14:44 <blogic> i just openwed the box with the 2 atusb things this morning and started portin drivers
2011-11-05 14:44 <blogic> :D
2011-11-05 14:45 <xiangfu> blogic, checkout here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/ben-wpan
2011-11-05 14:46 <xiangfu> blogic, we should thanks to kyak. :)
2011-11-05 14:47 <blogic> ok
2011-11-05 14:49 <xiangfu> 2 atusb. great. you are using openwrt on your pc?(x86)
2011-11-05 14:49 <wpwrak> (opened -> porting) cool ! ;-)
2011-11-05 14:49 <wpwrak> xiangfu: how do you switch between mmc and atben ?
2011-11-05 14:50 <xiangfu> wpwrak, not yet. I am still testing. compile as module. and load mmc by default. 
2011-11-05 14:50 <blogic> xiangfu: using a lantiq based dsl router with usb :D
2011-11-05 14:50 <xiangfu> wpwrak, I am thinking first step will be let people manually run some modprobe command.
2011-11-05 14:51 <wpwrak> xiangfu: for atben, that sounds good. but is there a use case with root on uSD ? if yes, then MMC would have to be in the kernel or a module in an initramfs
2011-11-05 14:52 <wpwrak> if it's in the kernel, i'm not sure if unbinding MMC and then loading atben works. of course, if it does, that would elegantly solve the problem
2011-11-05 14:54 <xiangfu> wpwrak, (root on uSD) wow. I didn't think of that. too bad. :(
2011-11-05 14:55 <wpwrak> that's the case that's been keeping me from pushing towards a merge into the distro :) but if we figure this one out now, even better :)
2011-11-05 15:01 <xiangfu> blogic, so if we have lantiq based dsl router with usb. then Ben nanonote will have wireless in home. :)
2011-11-05 15:01 <xiangfu> blogic, is this router have wifi?
2011-11-05 15:02 <blogic> yes
2011-11-05 15:02 <blogic> its just a random board with usb i had
2011-11-05 15:34 <blogic> http://pastebin.com/ugKFLi2Z
2011-11-05 15:34 <blogic> not doing what it should but doing something
2011-11-05 15:34 <blogic> this is 3.1
2011-11-05 19:20 <viric> hm
2011-11-05 19:20 <viric> 'fsync' is a heavy operation on a SD card...
2011-11-05 20:17 <fk15_guest> hey? :)
2011-11-05 20:56 <fk15_guest> hm well either way been having fun reading through the older logs but if thats ok I'm wondering if anyone here could share any thoughts on ARM verus PowerPC for general processors on embedded boards?
2011-11-05 21:02 <Ayla> is PPC good for embedded?
2011-11-05 21:02 <Ayla> isn't it a bit too power-hungry?
2011-11-05 21:03 <fk15_guest> ayla 1.6W? :)
2011-11-05 21:04 <Ayla> 1.6W is enormous
2011-11-05 21:04 <Ayla> it depends of your needs actually
2011-11-05 21:07 <fk15_guest> oh sorry yeah you just made me realize, I'm not that nitpicky to be measuring in milliwatts but at same time I'll like to avoid something that uses quite many watts like say 65W
2011-11-05 21:07 <fk15_guest> is that making sense to you now?
2011-11-05 21:08 <Ayla> yes
2011-11-05 21:08 <Ayla> what will the CPU be used for?
2011-11-05 21:13 <fk15_guest> desktop os for most part, nothing fancy tho so you gamers and whats not better look somewhere else heh
2011-11-05 21:14 <fk15_guest> been trying different setups for quite some time and finally decided it'll be much easier if I just made the board myself
2011-11-05 21:14 <Ayla> desktop OS? On a board? ...
2011-11-05 21:15 <fk15_guest> a few people think I'm maybe crazy but I don't mind it
2011-11-05 21:17 <Ayla> you'd need a light OS
2011-11-05 21:18 <Ayla> you can have a look at the Panda board or the Rapsberry Pi
2011-11-05 21:20 <Ayla> something like Meego could run fine on those
2011-11-05 21:23 <fk15_guest> yeah I had thought about meego, on top of a few others like netbsd or qnx just to name two
2011-11-05 21:25 <fk15_guest> and mm I've looked at these sort of small boards before, the problem with them in my case is the few onboard i/o on top of no conventional pci or cardbus for expansions
2011-11-05 21:25 <fk15_guest> I do find them interesting to look at tho
2011-11-05 21:29 <Ayla> QNX, a desktop OS? :)
2011-11-05 21:30 <Ayla> you're really masochist :)
2011-11-05 21:31 <fk15_guest> ayla haha well you should have tried the two older boot images they gave
2011-11-05 21:31 <fk15_guest> especially the one that managed to fit a decent qnx into just a single diskette
2011-11-05 21:32 <Ayla> well I tried QNX on my dreamcast back in the day
2011-11-05 21:32 <fk15_guest> ayla the dreamcast was supposed to support windows ce didn't it?
2011-11-05 21:32 <fk15_guest> I think even the netbsd ports list has dreamcast on there too
2011-11-05 21:32 <Ayla> windows CE was supposed to support the dreamcast
2011-11-05 21:32 <Ayla> the console in itself does not have any OS
2011-11-05 21:33 <fk15_guest> ayla yeah. by the way if you did not know, there was supposed to be an iomega zip 100mb drive specifically for the dreamcast but it never really materalized
2011-11-05 21:33 <Ayla> some games do use windows CE, but most of them use SEGA's own OS
2011-11-05 21:33 <fk15_guest> that would had been one way to run an os perhaps
2011-11-05 21:33 <Ayla> yes, there was one on ebay maybe one year ago
2011-11-05 21:34 <fk15_guest> if you want something ever more tricky then umm can I say apple piddin? :)
2011-11-05 21:34 <fk15_guest> interesting idea but some bad plannings on their part tho
2011-11-05 21:34 <Ayla> but zip is quite obsolete, now the dreamcast can use SD cards
2011-11-05 21:34 <Ayla> with some hardware modding
2011-11-05 21:35 <fk15_guest> ayla that is the funny thing I can not fathom at all. iomega is still selling brand new usb 100mb zip drives in some places, even adjacent to the 250mb ones
2011-11-05 21:35 <fk15_guest> who the hell will EVER buy these anymore when a higher capacity usb thumbdrive costs less
2011-11-05 21:36 <Ayla> nobody
2011-11-05 21:36 <fk15_guest> right!
2011-11-05 21:36 <fk15_guest> even the 750mb is useless too. you can get a 1gb thumbdrive can't you? :)
2011-11-05 21:37 <fk15_guest> at least iomega still does ok with other non-zip products especially NAS hds
2011-11-05 21:38 <fk15_guest> ayla anyway what do you usually use for copying/backup these days yourself?
2011-11-05 21:38 <Ayla> network
2011-11-05 21:39 <fk15_guest> NAS or a server box?
2011-11-05 21:40 <Ayla> server box
2011-11-05 21:40 <fk15_guest> I've always thought a bit about one for some time but for now I just have two different external hds on top of the occassional cdrw discs when giving away large lumps of files to someone
2011-11-05 21:43 <Ayla> usually I upload an archive and give a link :)
2011-11-05 21:43 <fk15_guest> heh yeah, well with the way internet is in some areas around here online storage just doesn't work so well
2011-11-05 21:43 <fk15_guest> not blaming anyone including you but mm
2011-11-05 21:46 <fk15_guest> ayla anyway the reason I asked that cpu question before was because on paper it seem so similiar but I know its probably not so much at all tho. eg both are clocked at 1ghz with a 2.5DMIPS/mhz rate
2011-11-05 21:46 <fk15_guest> is trying to avoid the old 'apple vs orange' arguements that has gotten too old with the G4 verus pcs before
2011-11-05 21:47 <Ayla> I don't know PPC
2011-11-05 21:47 <fk15_guest> thanks still, I guess I'll keep reading any more papers I can find in that case
2011-11-05 21:47 <fk15_guest> :)
2011-11-05 21:48 <Ayla> you probably should take a SoC that has at least a FPU and a GPU anyway
2011-11-05 21:49 <wpwrak> fk15_guest: if you don't care much about CPU core speed but need fancy I/O, then maybe milkymist could be interesting for you. it runs on an FPGA. the core is quite slow, only some ~100 MHz, but the FPGA gives you a lot of flexibility.
2011-11-05 21:49 <fk15_guest> ayla I was thinking of powervr for the gpu. seem like the most economical way to get any 3D graphics without needing a full dedicated gpu such as was with the radeon 7000M before amd-ati eoled it
2011-11-05 21:50 <Ayla> wpwrak: he wants to run a desktop PC on it :)
2011-11-05 21:50 <Ayla> desktop OS*
2011-11-05 21:50 <fk15_guest> wpwrak heh thanks for that suggestion but the cpu does actually matter :p
2011-11-05 21:51 <wpwrak> Ayla: well, M1 does have sort of a "desktop" :)
2011-11-05 21:51 <Ayla> if the CPU does matter, then buy a real PC
2011-11-05 21:51 <fk15_guest> ayla did I have to mention that another reason for powervr was that it supported opengl which is probably tons easier than trying to relay on software rendering all the times right? :)
2011-11-05 21:51 <wpwrak> fk15_guest: ah, pity
2011-11-05 21:51 <Ayla> wpwrak: oh yeah?
2011-11-05 21:52 <fk15_guest> oh I meant to ask, whats M1? I've noticed it a few times in the logs but no links
2011-11-05 21:52 <wpwrak> Ayla: there's a bit of a GUI with settings dialogs and editor. no shell but i think that could be easily added if someone needed it (it has a command line)
2011-11-05 21:53 <wpwrak> fk15_guest: milkymist.org
2011-11-05 21:53 <fk15_guest> oh didn't realized that was short for M1 mm ok thanks
2011-11-05 21:53 <Ayla> so you want a decent CPU, and display 3D graphics
2011-11-05 21:53 <Ayla> and you want a board
2011-11-05 21:53 <Ayla> hmmm .....
2011-11-05 21:53 <wpwrak> fk15_guest: it's an FPGA-based SoC, designed to be a video synthesizer. the "magic" is in the graphics subsystem
2011-11-05 21:54 <wpwrak> ah, you know it already. alright
2011-11-05 21:54 <fk15_guest> ayla well it doesn't have to be full blown 3D like in games but at least something that could deal with minor renderings
2011-11-05 21:54 <fk15_guest> and can I tell you what I was thinking of in term of the cpu?
2011-11-05 21:54 <Ayla> then get a Panda board :p
2011-11-05 21:54 <Ayla> sure
2011-11-05 21:58 <fk15_guest> cortex-a9, -a15, or ibm powerpc 400 series
2011-11-05 21:58 <fk15_guest> this isn't set into stone tho....yet ;)
2011-11-05 21:59 <Ayla> IIRC the Panda board has a Cortex A9 with a PowerVR GPU
2011-11-05 22:00 <fk15_guest> wpwrak that milkymist thing is rather interesting btw
2011-11-05 22:00 <Ayla> wpwrak: hey, that milkymist is interesting
2011-11-05 22:00 <Ayla> ditto
2011-11-05 22:01 <fk15_guest> lol
2011-11-05 22:01 <Ayla> I'm reading the PDF paper about the CPU you implemented in VHDL
2011-11-05 22:01 <wpwrak> it's not me who implemented it. that's all sebastien's work :)
2011-11-05 22:01 <wpwrak> and it's in verilog :)
2011-11-05 22:02 <fk15_guest> ayla one other reason I picked these two particular cpu series as I'm sure these panda/etc people knew of too was that it could run with minimal or no active cooling at all
2011-11-05 22:02 <Ayla> it's written VHDL on the website
2011-11-05 22:02 <wpwrak> and yes, damn interesting. it doesn't look like much, but it's actually amazingly efficient
2011-11-05 22:03 <Ayla> I did learn ARM at school, and I believe that it's badly designed
2011-11-05 22:03 <wpwrak> "Verilog HDL" or "VHDL" ? :)
2011-11-05 22:04 <Ayla> it lacks registers mainly, so there are too much load/store necessary that could have been saved with more general-purpose registers
2011-11-05 22:05 <fk15_guest> ayla hmm well I'll see which of the two I finally think to go along with eventually then
2011-11-05 22:06 <Ayla> wpwrak: Very-high speed integrated circuits Hardware Description Language
2011-11-05 22:06 <Ayla> = VHDL
2011-11-05 22:07 <Ayla> it's different from Verilog
2011-11-05 22:07 <Ayla> from/with
2011-11-05 22:12 <fk15_guest> ayla I was thinking of this for expansion, it kinda kills two birds with one stone tho since it also provides media reader as part of the same chip too http://www.ricoh.com/LSI/product_pcif/pcc/5c847/index.html
2011-11-05 22:12 <fk15_guest> just if you wanted to know about that
2011-11-05 22:12 <wpwrak> Ayla: (vhdl) yes, i know. but i don't see where milkymist.org claims that it's written in VHDL.
2011-11-05 22:13 <Ayla> yeah, I don't see it either :)
2011-11-05 22:13 <Ayla> it's written Verilog HDL, it tricked my mind
2011-11-05 22:13 <fk15_guest> heh
2011-11-05 22:13 <wpwrak> ah, good :)
2011-11-05 22:14 <Ayla> the milkymist is interesting, but at 526.50 euros, it's a bit too much for me
2011-11-05 22:14 <Ayla> x_x
2011-11-05 22:16 <fk15_guest> thats a bit too expensive for me too -_-
2011-11-05 22:20 <fk15_guest> wpwrak and ayla want hear what I had been thinking about in term of the hardware design I was working toward on?
2011-11-05 22:20 <Ayla> ok
2011-11-05 22:24 <fk15_guest> 1-2ghz processor, intergrated powervr graphic core, single ddr2 sodimm socket I assume, yamaha or cirrus audio dsp, jmicron sata controller for how else do I get storage otherwise, a few other i/o including a usb host core, pcmcia or pcmcia/pci expansions, and a few more smaller details
2011-11-05 22:25 <fk15_guest> I've done a few homemade pci cards so I do kinda have some sense of pci i/o stuffs a bit, might need to work on it some more tho
2011-11-05 22:28 <fk15_guest> I know that the audio dsp may be a little overboard but think I'll like to try it still
2011-11-05 22:28 <Ayla> well... good luck :p
2011-11-05 22:29 <fk15_guest> ayla thanks :p
2011-11-05 22:29 <fk15_guest> ayla I actually built two of these few pci cards out of fustration with crappy mass-run designs to be honest with you heh!
2011-11-05 22:30 <fk15_guest> one was a simple 1+1 ports firewire 400 card that could actually deliver 24W to the single external port
2011-11-05 22:30 <fk15_guest> most of the other cards were just simply for fun tho
2011-11-05 22:32 <Ayla> I'm not good at doing hardware
2011-11-05 22:32 <fk15_guest> I'm not good at some part of it neither
2011-11-05 22:33 <fk15_guest> I'm a little more of the 'hmm does this work....nope.....*ZZZTTTT!!*...oh shoot crap' some of these times, so yeah don't ask me to ever work on anything expensive!
2011-11-05 22:33 <fk15_guest> is it no wonder I hate modern cars by any means
2011-11-05 22:34 <fk15_guest> early fuel injections are easy to poke around with
2011-11-05 22:34 <fk15_guest> anyway just ignore my blabbings :p
2011-11-05 22:38 <fk15_guest> btw I liked what wolfspraul said at 13:19 here http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2011-11-03.log.html
2011-11-05 22:38 <fk15_guest> he's right, I always see way too many alike small projects duplicated left and right online. it just doesn't make much sense tbh
2011-11-05 22:40 <fk15_guest> ayla you mind if I asked you which country you're from?
2011-11-05 22:40 <Ayla> France
2011-11-05 22:40 <fk15_guest> canada here and no I don't even see any snow yet although I did hear that the maine area does have some now
2011-11-05 22:40 <fk15_guest> :p
2011-11-05 22:40 <fk15_guest> france? nice
2011-11-05 22:41 <fk15_guest> how about you wpwrak?
2011-11-05 22:41 <fk15_guest> ayla I would admit I only know just a few basic french words tho :s
2011-11-05 22:41 <fk15_guest> bonjour et merci!
2011-11-05 22:42 <Ayla> good
2011-11-05 22:42 <fk15_guest> I do love crepes at times tho
2011-11-05 22:43 <fk15_guest> sometimes plain, sometimes with chocolate chips. always syrrup on top anytime tho
2011-11-05 22:48 <fk15_guest> ayla I never could figure out certain food names tho because they are not quite where you thought they came from
2011-11-05 22:48 <fk15_guest> english muffins didn't actually come from england for example
2011-11-05 22:50 <Ayla> err... ok
2011-11-05 22:50 <wpwrak> fk15_guest: i'm austrian, born in switzerland, now living in argentina
2011-11-05 22:50 <fk15_guest> wpwrak mm. I find switzerland quite interesting but sadly I've only gone there just once so far :s
2011-11-05 22:51 <Ayla> fk15_guest: the "french cream" is called "crème anglaise" in France, which can be translated to "english cream"
2011-11-05 22:52 <fk15_guest> hm I didn't know that
2011-11-05 22:55 <fk15_guest> wpwrak I've been looking at the milkymist for a while, it sure is an interesting thing. I guess the price can be a bit of a deciding factor on how much you would be actually using it
2011-11-05 22:55 <fk15_guest> if I had some free money for random things I might had thought about it actually
2011-11-05 22:59 <fk15_guest> I kinda like to play with videos of any sort so thats why I'm a bit interested
2011-11-05 23:16 <fk15_guest> wpwrak have you heard of the Open Graphics Project?
2011-11-05 23:16 <wpwrak> fk15_guest: it's fun to play with :) if you add midi controls, you have a lot of interactive control
2011-11-05 23:16 <fk15_guest> expensive for many people but still an interesting project
2011-11-05 23:16 <fk15_guest> wpwrak like I said, if I got some free cash I may have to get one :P
2011-11-05 23:16 <wpwrak> fk15_guest: (switzerland) it's nice, but also a bit boring :)
2011-11-05 23:17 <fk15_guest> :p
2011-11-05 23:17 <wpwrak> (open graphics) dunno. there've been a few. haven't heard much from them for a while
2011-11-05 23:20 <fk15_guest> wpwrak I find the idea intresting but I'm not too sure about how praticial an open sourced hardware graphic card design could be
2011-11-05 23:21 <fk15_guest> especially since when you can already more or less do open sourced graphics on pretty much any new or old run of mill cards
2011-11-05 23:21 <fk15_guest> opengl that is
2011-11-05 23:24 <fk15_guest> wpwrak I know this is a bit of a different topic with some debate but I've always liked displayport over that hdmi thing especially in term of licensings as well
2011-11-05 23:26 <wpwrak> yeah, HDMI is full of nasty stuff
2011-11-05 23:26 <fk15_guest> as nasty as that bollockful mpeg-la troll too
2011-11-05 23:26 <wpwrak> lots of stuff that says "bow before us, dirty little customer !"
2011-11-05 23:27 <wpwrak> well, mpeg-la are indeed pretty evil, too :)
2011-11-05 23:27 <fk15_guest> I don't understand how meg-la really strayed far away from its original purpose what with owning so many unrelated patents on too many other things
2011-11-05 23:27 <fk15_guest> wpwrak beside what you would send down hdmi you can do pretty much the same with displayport as well but at a lower cost :P
2011-11-05 23:29 <fk15_guest> I still do have to think about if I'll like to implent a displayport controller or just do with vga instead. I guess I'll have to wait to actually design the graphic core first and see from there
2011-11-05 23:29 <fk15_guest> wpwrak oh and mpeg-la is one small part of the various reasons I don't like h264 too much
2011-11-05 23:30 <fk15_guest> especially that time when there was an interview where mpeg-la said that they wouldn't charge users now for online h264 contents but they "may" do so in some future date
2011-11-05 23:30 <fk15_guest> its just....stubborn :/
2011-11-05 23:30 <wpwrak> isn't HDMI basically DVI-D plus evil ?
2011-11-05 23:31 <fk15_guest> wpwrak well the video aspect of hdmi is pretty much exactly just dvi-d yeah
2011-11-05 23:31 <wpwrak> oh, the whole codec scene is all wrong
2011-11-05 23:34 <fk15_guest> wpwrak one other thing about displayport was that if its implented in the controller on the hardware design you can use more or less a simple specific cable to get vga output from a displayport capable computer. hdmi can't do that without requiring a full d>a converter box
2011-11-05 23:34 <fk15_guest> so its not bad for if you ever needed to output to an older display
2011-11-05 23:34 <fk15_guest> I don't know the whole technical details on displayport tho
2011-11-05 23:40 <fk15_guest> wpwrak there anything else you could think of? I probably could comment on it
2011-11-05 23:44 <wpwrak> ah, so DP also includes the analog signal ? nice. i never looked much at DP. found it mildly distracting that they would come up with *yet*another* connector just after DVI-I/D and HDMI. i still have a lot of VGA. works great :)
2011-11-05 23:45 <fk15_guest> I never really understood dvi. but I would consider displayport a good upgrade over vga tho especially in term of further HD resolutions support
2011-11-05 23:45 <fk15_guest> that is providing the gpu can deal with it
2011-11-05 23:47 <fk15_guest> wpwrak one thing you should keep in mind is that displayport deals with a lot more than just video
2011-11-05 23:48 <fk15_guest> it has digital audio stream aside to a few extra lines that can be used for just about any other data you would want with no limit
2011-11-05 23:49 <fk15_guest> say unpowered firewire, touchscreen feedback, or whatever else you can think of
2011-11-05 23:50 <fk15_guest> used to be touchscreen would usually need two cables, one for vga and other for either serial or usb. but with displayport you now have just a single cable as it should had been meant
2011-11-05 23:52 <fk15_guest> oh and wpwrak before I almost forgot, one of the offical aim of displayport was to replace the propertiary-ish LVD too. so you could have a laptop that only had one single controller for both the internal and external screens
2011-11-05 23:52 <fk15_guest> plus did I have to mention that the webcam, mic, etc can be funneled through that same hingle cord too?