2011-10-15 02:36 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: listener automatically records when sound is detected (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f3d79bd
2011-10-15 06:05 <qi-bot> The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-10142011-0131/
2011-10-15 13:41 <DocScrutinizer> zrafa: more like 3 years older than 30: blit 1981, X11 1984
2011-10-15 21:53 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: thanks a lot for your suggestion about solder mask/silkscreen removal
2011-10-15 21:54 <whitequark> I've improved it a bit: if you use a sharp needle, it's easier to not accidentally split some important trace in two
2011-10-15 21:54 <DocScrutinizer> whitequark: sorry I don't actually recall what I suggested and for what
2011-10-15 21:55 <whitequark> hmm
2011-10-15 21:55 <whitequark> looks up the logs
2011-10-15 21:56 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: if he used a knife, it was probably me. if he used the dark side of the force, all the credit it yours ;-)
2011-10-15 21:56 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: that suggestion was about removing stuff that covers traces
2011-10-15 21:56 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
2011-10-15 21:56 <whitequark> whoops
2011-10-15 21:56 <whitequark> sorry, that really was Werner
2011-10-15 21:56 <DocScrutinizer> aaah
2011-10-15 21:57 <whitequark> for some reason I remembered you as the author of the advice...
2011-10-15 21:57 <DocScrutinizer> well, maybe because it is quite probable that you'd get such kind of advice from me
2011-10-15 21:58 <whitequark> wpwrak: yep, I've tried with a knife. using needle is more precise, i.e. I do need the solder mask for 8WSON a lot, but please, no pad-covering silkscreen
2011-10-15 21:58 <DocScrutinizer> I'd nevertheless use a small "round" knife and carefully scrape (NOT cut!) soldermask away
2011-10-15 21:59 <wpwrak> if you solder manually, it actually doesn't mater all that much. it's the flux that does most of the magic. but yes, silk screen on pads = evil ;-)
2011-10-15 22:00 <DocScrutinizer> soldermask on pads == BUG
2011-10-15 22:00 <whitequark> wpwrak: yes, flux is very important too, but if I have exposed traces, solder tends to leak to the uncovered places and makes weird surface tension patterns
2011-10-15 22:00 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: that was a $25 extra-cheap prototyping (for 10 10x10cm boards)
2011-10-15 22:00 <whitequark> everything except the damned solder mask is great
2011-10-15 22:00 <wpwrak> whitequark: when that happens, try thin solder wick. (thin: <= 1 mm wide)
2011-10-15 22:01 <DocScrutinizer> for my education: I thought solder mask is the even green coating, while silkscreen is the printing (usually white)?
2011-10-15 22:01 <whitequark> and the latter is off by ~0.8mm
2011-10-15 22:01 <whitequark> argh, that was a typo
2011-10-15 22:01 <whitequark> of course the silkscreen is off
2011-10-15 22:01 <whitequark> solder mask, holes, vias and every other thing is perfectly done
2011-10-15 22:01 <wpwrak> off by 0.8 mm ? nice ;-)
2011-10-15 22:01 <whitequark> yeah
2011-10-15 22:01 <whitequark> maybe even 1mm, it varies
2011-10-15 22:02 <wpwrak> why not just do their own creative painting instead ? ;-)  well, thinking of it, they kinda did :)
2011-10-15 22:02 <whitequark> they've also added some internal number on a random place on the board
2011-10-15 22:02 <whitequark> I've rechecked: they actually do that for every PCB
2011-10-15 22:03 <DocScrutinizer> weird
2011-10-15 22:03 <whitequark> http://whitequark.org/blog/2011/10/07/my-first-factory-made-pcbs/
2011-10-15 22:03 <whitequark> as you can see, the printings inside the top connector aren't on gerbers
2011-10-15 22:03 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: seems they really do "creative painting" then ;-P
2011-10-15 22:03 <whitequark> exactly
2011-10-15 22:04 <whitequark> but well then, it's $25 and they did it in single day
2011-10-15 22:05 <whitequark> I'll rather scratch off some silkscreen from two boards I do rather, for example, pay twice of that, or wait for a week.
2011-10-15 22:05 <wpwrak> and then let's count the hours you spent figuring out what exactly they had done ;)
2011-10-15 22:06 <wpwrak> if i need quick but unreliable, i do it in my kitchen :)
2011-10-15 22:06 <whitequark> wpwrak: I think that was a meaningful experience. sometimes things go wrong anyway, and it's better to know what the hell may happen there instead of trying to figure it up in a hurry on some much more complex and expensive board
2011-10-15 22:07 <wpwrak> yeah. you already know where not to go for complex boards :)
2011-10-15 22:07 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: you do ds+via in your kitchen? respect!
2011-10-15 22:07 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: ds?
2011-10-15 22:07 <DocScrutinizer> doublesided
2011-10-15 22:07 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: double-sided yes, vias with a bit of wire.
2011-10-15 22:08 <whitequark> that's very impressive, yes
2011-10-15 22:08 <DocScrutinizer> wired vias suck :-D
2011-10-15 22:08 <whitequark> I am barely able to do a 1-sided board with 12mil traces
2011-10-15 22:08 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: i have a drill and wire combination where the wire stays in place by friction. takes a lot of pain out of the soldering :)
2011-10-15 22:08 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
2011-10-15 22:08 <whitequark> tried to make them for ~half of a year intermittently, but finally gave up
2011-10-15 22:09 <whitequark> it has consumed a whole lot of time with almost no outcome
2011-10-15 22:09 <wpwrak> whitequark: maybe you should reconsider your approach to vodka :)
2011-10-15 22:09 <whitequark> *facepalm*
2011-10-15 22:09 <wpwrak> (-:C
2011-10-15 22:10 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: I used to use small copper 'nails' which I riveted with a 20g hammer and a bolt then
2011-10-15 22:11 <wpwrak> pheew ...
2011-10-15 22:11 <DocScrutinizer> final soldering is utterly simple, and almost not needed at all
2011-10-15 22:12 <whitequark> wpwrak: anyway, PCBs without any solder mask conflict with my aesthetic feelings
2011-10-15 22:12 <wpwrak> same with my wire. i just add solder paste on both sides of the vias, put the wire into the holes, heat, done
2011-10-15 22:12 <DocScrutinizer> whitequark: I'd redesign my silkscreen anyway
2011-10-15 22:12 <DocScrutinizer> it's too tight
2011-10-15 22:12 <wpwrak> i can also do it without solder paste, but it helps in difficult situations
2011-10-15 22:13 <DocScrutinizer> silkscreen usually isn't that precise 
2011-10-15 22:13 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: you've meant my silkscreen, I guess. or not?
2011-10-15 22:13 <DocScrutinizer> yep
2011-10-15 22:13 <whitequark> that's Eagle's default silkscreen for most of the components. I think I only designed it for IC2
2011-10-15 22:14 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
2011-10-15 22:14 <whitequark> (sorry, I'm too stupid to use KiCad or some other FOSS tool)
2011-10-15 22:14 <DocScrutinizer> JP1 JP3 and IC1 silkscreen looks errr odd
2011-10-15 22:15 <whitequark> ahh yes, also I've made JP2 from scratch, yes
2011-10-15 22:15 <whitequark> that's for a very perverted Hirose connector
2011-10-15 22:15 <whitequark> the really funny thing is, when I've tried to plug in the LCD, the connectors did not match anyway
2011-10-15 22:16 <DocScrutinizer> err is that JP2? I just see JP1 is at the bottom, not next to R3
2011-10-15 22:16 <DocScrutinizer> umm JP4
2011-10-15 22:16 <DocScrutinizer> JP2 looks not all that bad
2011-10-15 22:16 <whitequark> pitch is the same, but my one has "blades" (i.e. flat and wide pins), and the one at LCD _almost_ likes my mating part, but it expects small round pins instead, and a bit different keys
2011-10-15 22:17 <wpwrak> yeah, a bit tight. but what really screws it up is the HUGE offset. i don't think the rest would be a problem.
2011-10-15 22:17 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: JP3 and JP4 is from Eagle's pinhead library. I think I'll use SparkFun one in the future, it's quite better IIRC
2011-10-15 22:17 <whitequark> *are
2011-10-15 22:18 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, why print any silkscreen so close to the soldering area at all? allow silkscreen to move a little, like +-1mm
2011-10-15 22:18 <wpwrak> except, of course, the absence of thermal relief. you want to fix that before you make the next 10M units ;-)
2011-10-15 22:18 <whitequark> I understand it _now_. But that's my first PCB with silkscreen/solder mask, as the title states
2011-10-15 22:18 <whitequark> it's not surprising that I screw it up :D
2011-10-15 22:19 <DocScrutinizer> e.g. I'd never ponder to print silkscreen in between adjacent pins of a post-connector
2011-10-15 22:19 <DocScrutinizer> and what eagle does there feels kinda odd
2011-10-15 22:19 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: do you add all silkscreen on your boards manually? or only the outlines?
2011-10-15 22:19 <whitequark> or do you just design all the components from scratch? :)
2011-10-15 22:21 <DocScrutinizer> err, I usually only add component label silkscreens, or if I choose to add frames etc for e.g. smt resistors etc then I make sure they have at least 0.5mm clearance to the solder area
2011-10-15 22:21 <DocScrutinizer> it's not exactly unusual for silkscreen printing to be less carefully done than all the other steps of PCB manuf
2011-10-15 22:22 <DocScrutinizer> after all silkscreen is not supposed to be any "functional" part of the PCB - it's for mere convenience
2011-10-15 22:25 <DocScrutinizer> solder stop mask otoh is usually very accurately done
2011-10-15 22:25 <DocScrutinizer> even the paint used has different properties it seems
2011-10-15 22:27 <whitequark> I think it's because of different processes, i.e. solder mask is photoresistive too--isn't it?--and silkscreen is done, well, with silkscreen process
2011-10-15 22:27 <whitequark> the latter seems much less precise for me
2011-10-15 22:30 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly
2011-10-15 22:30 <whitequark> darn. still does not work :/
2011-10-15 22:30 <whitequark> I wonder why
2011-10-15 22:30 <DocScrutinizer> that's why for silkscreen there's just one mandatory rule: keep clear of soldering pads ;-D
2011-10-15 22:30 <whitequark> 10 minutes earlier, EN was effectively isolated by silkscreen. it isn't now...
2011-10-15 22:34 <whitequark> ahh of course. it won't work with FB either.
2011-10-15 22:34 <whitequark> *without
2011-10-15 22:35 <whitequark> its thickness is enough to prevent contact if there's even a small island, less than 0.1x0.1mm
2011-10-15 22:42 <whitequark> how do you think, is it enough to place a small (8WSON, it is like a small LGA-8) chip on the pre-tinned (i.e. with a small amount of solder on it) pads and then heat it with hot air and let surface tension do its work
2011-10-15 22:42 <whitequark> or should I press it gently on the top to push it to the board?
2011-10-15 22:44 <wpwrak> how would you prevent it from getting blown away without pushing a little ?
2011-10-15 22:44 <whitequark> hmm
2011-10-15 22:45 <wpwrak> and i hit air fails you, you can always fall back to flux + solder + iron
2011-10-15 22:45 <whitequark> it doesn't get blown away even on the top air speed of my hot air gun
2011-10-15 22:45 <wpwrak> s/hit/hot/
2011-10-15 22:45 <whitequark> I use an RMA flux-gel, that may be the cause
2011-10-15 22:45 <wpwrak> (not blown away) lucky you :)
2011-10-15 22:45 <wpwrak> okay, RMA is very sticky :) but still ...
2011-10-15 22:46 <whitequark> it doesn't get at all, really
2011-10-15 22:46 <whitequark> never had that problem
2011-10-15 22:46 <whitequark> even with 0603 resistors or 3x3mm cases
2011-10-15 22:46 <whitequark> it's our special russian hot air :D
2011-10-15 22:47 <wpwrak> hmm. maybe your is just better than mine :)
2011-10-15 22:48 <whitequark> mmmkay, still does not work.
2011-10-15 22:48 <whitequark> I hate my life.
2011-10-15 22:48 <whitequark> I guess when it _looks_ like it's a bit off, it is actually not soldered at all.
2011-10-15 22:49 <wpwrak> if you can see a problem, there are probably two others already that you don't ;-)
2011-10-15 22:51 <whitequark> ok, I've pushed it to the board. looks like _now_ it _is_ soldered
2011-10-15 22:51 <whitequark> so I should cool it down and check...
2011-10-15 22:52 <whitequark> (the reason behind me not wanting to push the component is that yesterday I've moved it quite far away from the pads. It's better today by some reason.)
2011-10-15 22:52 <wpwrak> three spools each of 0.5 kg of solder later ... ;-)
2011-10-15 22:53 <whitequark> I don't add more solder, it isn't needed
2011-10-15 22:53 <wpwrak> for pushing, what works best for me are angled tweezers
2011-10-15 22:53 <whitequark> and I've used almost no flux, maybe several mm's from the syringe
2011-10-15 22:53 <whitequark> (tweezers) yep, I'm using them. they're most convenient for this IMO, too
2011-10-15 22:54 <whitequark> (on the other hand, these extra-super-small components are fast to heat too, so they _could_ survive more solder-desolder cycles :)
2011-10-15 22:55 <whitequark> fuck yeah. IT WORKS!
2011-10-15 22:55 <whitequark> now, the other board.
2011-10-15 22:56 <wpwrak> congratulations ! :)
2011-10-15 22:56 <whitequark> thanks
2011-10-15 22:57 <whitequark> at least, now I understand the implications of using a random TI-component-which-has-right-characteristics and not-looking-up-the-case-in-advance.
2011-10-15 22:57 <whitequark> it looked _much_ bigger on my notebook's screen.
2011-10-15 22:58 <DocScrutinizer> building dummies helps a lot
2011-10-15 22:58 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: do you mean printing the PCB on paper?
2011-10-15 22:59 <DocScrutinizer> even if it's only cardboard or paper
2011-10-15 22:59 <wpwrak> (it looked bigger) ;-))))
2011-10-15 22:59 <DocScrutinizer> nah, dummy of e.g. a 0402 component
2011-10-15 22:59 <whitequark> hm
2011-10-15 23:00 <DocScrutinizer> I constantly fail to figure how small those critters really are
2011-10-15 23:00 <wpwrak> building dummies seems hard. printing is easy. also gives you a feeling. although, on paper it always seems more compact than in real life.
2011-10-15 23:01 <whitequark> 0402 is slightly less than the distance between tips of my tweezers, so I don't use them
2011-10-15 23:01 <whitequark> also, (seriously), it's nowhere to be found in Russia
2011-10-15 23:01 <whitequark> i.e. there is one very expensive (and by "very" I mean 10x-50x more expensive than in the right place and/or in something like DigiKey) shop which has them
2011-10-15 23:01 <DocScrutinizer> helps for other components as well, esp chips
2011-10-15 23:02 <wpwrak> whitequark: you need better tweezers, too :)
2011-10-15 23:02 <whitequark> in the places where you can get components by sane price (and I mean radio markets), there are no 0402 ones. 1206, 0805, yes. 0603 -- harder, but still possible. 0402 and less is missing at all. looks like it's not only me having problems with them
2011-10-15 23:03 <DocScrutinizer> whitequark: well at real values of a dozen per penny they will need massive increase in price to make any money on selling them
2011-10-15 23:03 <wpwrak> 0402 isn't too hard. but you can't see very well at that size. so you just have to have faith :)
2011-10-15 23:03 <DocScrutinizer> when sold in single qty
2011-10-15 23:04 <kristianpaul> feels bad about his soldering equipement
2011-10-15 23:04 <kristianpaul> I guess 30W is not enought?
2011-10-15 23:05 <kristianpaul> Is for this board http://gnss-sdr.ru/media/1/20101001-front_image.jpg
2011-10-15 23:05 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: at market I can buy some regular components (like, for example, 0603 22p ceramics) for ~$0.016 or even less, down to $0.005 if >50 pts
2011-10-15 23:05 <kristianpaul> also i dont know how to handle the GPS RF IC, i dont want to damage if i touch it?
2011-10-15 23:06 <whitequark> (there are some things like really fat and small ceramics in 0603/uF range, which is still expensive and/or missing, but that's different things)
2011-10-15 23:06 <whitequark> and that shop (called Chip & Dip; don't go there if you'll see it) sells them for no less than $0.2 each, regardless of qty
2011-10-15 23:07 <whitequark> MAX232 is $10 instead of $1 as it should be, etc.
2011-10-15 23:07 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: do you have inventory of your soldering equiment somwheere? ;^)
2011-10-15 23:07 <whitequark> also, they frequently fail at selling the right component, as their consultants are quite stupid.
2011-10-15 23:07 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: hmm, i'm afraid not. it's a collection from all over the place
2011-10-15 23:08 <wpwrak> whitequark: seems that digi-key will get your next order soon :)
2011-10-15 23:08 <kristianpaul> what i should get? a 90W iron? twexer of course, flux pen ..
2011-10-15 23:09 <kristianpaul> twezers*
2011-10-15 23:09 <whitequark> wpwrak: radio market for passive components and terraelectronica for ICs are a really good combination, but they don't have everything. when I'm doing something for myself, I try to pick from the components which are in stock in both, when someone asks me to make a board, I just say that they will finally pay for DigiKey order and shipment :)
2011-10-15 23:10 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: a temperature-controlled iron mainly
2011-10-15 23:10 <whitequark> (terraelectronica is a company name, of course. they have some _really_ good prices, like selling from qty 1 for the price of 100s)
2011-10-15 23:11 <kristianpaul> can i bought that too from digi-key? cause i'm really thinging in make my first big order :)
2011-10-15 23:11 <kristianpaul> nv, i can buy that locally i guess :)
2011-10-15 23:11 <kristianpaul> what about handling RF ICs, any advice?
2011-10-15 23:12 <wolfspraul> good morning
2011-10-15 23:12 <whitequark> I'd definitely begin with an antistatic bracelet
2011-10-15 23:12 <wpwrak> whitequark: (price from d-k, parts from terra) good idea ;-)
2011-10-15 23:12 <kristianpaul> morning
2011-10-15 23:12 <wolfspraul> what do you guys think about making an open/copyleft LED driver board?
2011-10-15 23:12 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (soldering iron) you should be able to get this locally. they're not too exotic.
2011-10-15 23:13 <wolfspraul> a Chinese friend of mine is working on one and I'm wondering whether I can help him in any way
2011-10-15 23:13 <wolfspraul> same as Jon's speakers there't not that much software on it though :-)
2011-10-15 23:13 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: what kind of LEDs ?
2011-10-15 23:13 <kristianpaul> i need LEDs to iluminate the backyard :)
2011-10-15 23:13 <whitequark> wpwrak: hah, I only buy components in d-k when I can't find them in terra. d-k is quite painful to pay and also shipping is _not_ straightforward
2011-10-15 23:13 <kristianpaul> or at least i want give a try toe LED tech :)
2011-10-15 23:13 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: phew :)
2011-10-15 23:14 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: i'd stick with halogen for a few more decades :)
2011-10-15 23:14 <kristianpaul> really?
2011-10-15 23:14 <kristianpaul> but they got damaged and... oh well
2011-10-15 23:14 <wolfspraul> I don't know that much about it, I think 'normal' LEDs?
2011-10-15 23:14 <wpwrak> whitequark: well, now you've done d-k once. probably is smoother now.
2011-10-15 23:14 <wolfspraul> the board attaches to a package with 70 leds I think
2011-10-15 23:14 <wolfspraul> basically it's an intelligent power supply
2011-10-15 23:15 <wpwrak> so what do the leds do ?
2011-10-15 23:15 <wolfspraul> with an Altera epm570T100 cpld controlling the power supply
2011-10-15 23:15 <kristianpaul> display cool 128 x 128 bit images?
2011-10-15 23:15 <wolfspraul> illuminate
2011-10-15 23:15 <wolfspraul> no
2011-10-15 23:15 <kristianpaul> oh
2011-10-15 23:15 <wolfspraul> a lamp
2011-10-15 23:15 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: halogen is cheap to replace - no matter what the damage is :)
2011-10-15 23:15 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: sure ;)
2011-10-15 23:16 <wolfspraul> first I will try to get some more data :-)
2011-10-15 23:16 <wpwrak> cpld and this kind of circuit sounds a little unusual. i could imagine an mcu with pcm, though
2011-10-15 23:16 <wolfspraul> maybe Adam can help him with a small run and we can learn something? don't know yet
2011-10-15 23:16 <wolfspraul> no only that cpld, plus LM139 comparator to monitor the output, plus some mosfets
2011-10-15 23:17 <kristianpaul> sounds fancy for just a lamp, but i'm curious
2011-10-15 23:17 <wolfspraul> he made a prototype board and will show it at a LED fair in guangzhou in a few days
2011-10-15 23:19 <whitequark> wpwrak: why not use CPLD if you need a lot of pwm's, but nothing more?
2011-10-15 23:19 <whitequark> sounds like a sane choice for me
2011-10-15 23:21 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
2011-10-15 23:21 <whitequark> I guess it is not :)
2011-10-15 23:22 <whitequark> wpwrak: now that the second board works too, I think I've found a flaw in my soldering habit which has caused all this crap
2011-10-15 23:23 <wpwrak> whitequark: well yes. if you need lots of fast PWMs :) but an MCU can provide quite a lot of not so fast PWMs via software. LEDs don't need a PWM running at MHz ;-) but perhaps there are requirements we don't know. also, maybe he just likes cplds :)
2011-10-15 23:23 <wpwrak> (soldering) heh ! :) experience makes the master
2011-10-15 23:23 <wolfspraul> here's a bit of high-level info I could get so far http://pastebin.com/FbRHWMgU
2011-10-15 23:23 <whitequark> wpwrak: I'm holding the hot air gun at a small angle, and the component, no matter it's just 1mm high, blocks the air flow to the other side of it, causing it to not solder to the board 
2011-10-15 23:24 <wpwrak> hmm, i just go around the component with the hot air
2011-10-15 23:24 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: do i need a hot air gun or the iron should be okay?
2011-10-15 23:25 <whitequark> wpwrak: when I beginned to do the same, the boards suddenly began to work
2011-10-15 23:25 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: i've only truly needed hot air once so far, and that was for the atben//atusb crystal
2011-10-15 23:25 <kristianpaul> why?
2011-10-15 23:25 <wpwrak> whitequark: ;-)
2011-10-15 23:25 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: because for all the rest, an iron works, too :)
2011-10-15 23:25 <whitequark> wpwrak: how much years/centuries of experience do you have?
2011-10-15 23:25 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: the crystal has large pads at the bottom
2011-10-15 23:26 <kristianpaul> so heat went away easilly?
2011-10-15 23:26 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: 70w wow !
2011-10-15 23:26 <whitequark> wpwrak: how can you solder something with pads underneath the chip like LGA or WSON with an iron if you have a board with a solder mask where you can't heat the traces directly?
2011-10-15 23:27 <wpwrak> whitequark: heh, not all that long ;-) must have been around 2005 when i got interested again (i played a bit with electronics as a kid but didn't really get much done)
2011-10-15 23:27 <wpwrak> whitequark: WSON has a bit of metal on the side
2011-10-15 23:27 <kristianpaul> strugles in getting a bom
2011-10-15 23:27 <wpwrak> whitequark: and for DIY, i have no solder mask anyway :)
2011-10-15 23:28 <whitequark> wpwrak: indeed it does, but I was unable to solder it with just the metal. I've tried getting a solder blob on the tip of my iron and touching the WSON sides with that blob
2011-10-15 23:29 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: does "H-bridge" in wolfspraul's spec make any sense to you ?
2011-10-15 23:29 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: except as a self-destruct mechanism for the LEDs perhaps :)
2011-10-15 23:29 <kristianpaul> argh, that .net file is too uglgy to print in raw --
2011-10-15 23:30 <DocScrutinizer> what's "wolfg specs"?
2011-10-15 23:30 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: even 250 kHz is well within MCU territory :)
2011-10-15 23:30 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.com/FbRHWMgU
2011-10-15 23:31 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul, fyi i got two boards from gnss-sdr.ru also some components, now i if get this build i can have a second source of data and compare results easilly ;)
2011-10-15 23:32 <kristianpaul> to give you a quick update, i'm currently working on the tracking algorythms for namuru
2011-10-15 23:32 <kristianpaul> not big deal? but i need re-enforce my C knowledge a bit :)
2011-10-15 23:33 <wpwrak> whitequark: (soldering WSON) hmm. looks similar to QFN to me. they're quite doable. the ones without metal on the side are evil, though
2011-10-15 23:33 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: hardly
2011-10-15 23:33 <whitequark> wpwrak: yeah, it's quite like qfn
2011-10-15 23:33 <wolfspraul> [likes cpld] yes he's an IC designer
2011-10-15 23:33 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: any response from the DIY GPS guy in the UK ?
2011-10-15 23:33 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: that would explain it :)
2011-10-15 23:33 <DocScrutinizer> unless they plan to use a cascade multiplier to drive a lot of LEDs in series
2011-10-15 23:33 <wolfspraul> I'm sure pretty much everything in electronics can be built in 10 different ways, so?
2011-10-15 23:34 <wolfspraul> yes, I've heard 'series led' somewhere
2011-10-15 23:34 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: tesla would be so proud ;-)
2011-10-15 23:34 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: yeap, http://paste.debian.net/hidden/87191b1a/
2011-10-15 23:35 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: links most of milkymist, qi-hardware related
2011-10-15 23:35 <wolfspraul> the cpld currently uses 242 logic cells, with some more functionality should still stay < 1k, or could be reduced to ca. 100 for a low-cost derivative
2011-10-15 23:35 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: oh wow, from tomorrow. he's really ahead of his time :)
2011-10-15 23:36 <kristianpaul> hum?
2011-10-15 23:36 <kristianpaul> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 09:50:20 +0100
2011-10-15 23:36 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: anonymous posted at 2011-10-16 01:34:46 
2011-10-15 23:36 <kristianpaul> sorry i missed on the pastebin
2011-10-15 23:36 <wpwrak> :)
2011-10-15 23:36 <kristianpaul> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.59
2011-10-15 23:37 <kristianpaul> of that make you happy :)
2011-10-15 23:37 <kristianpaul> s/of/if
2011-10-15 23:37 <wpwrak> eek
2011-10-15 23:37 <whitequark> has just unsoldered that hirose connector back, just for the sake of doing it
2011-10-15 23:38 <whitequark> I haven't melted it, yay!
2011-10-15 23:39 <wolfspraul> ok I will gather some more info about the led driver board...
2011-10-15 23:39 <wolfspraul> if we can open it up, maybe it's worthwhile to help with a little small run
2011-10-15 23:42 <kristianpaul> lamps are very wellcome over the world i guess, so worth the try i think
2011-10-15 23:42 <kristianpaul> and the battery is a good plus
2011-10-15 23:42 <wpwrak> lamps are also still difficult economically. leds are still too expensive.
2011-10-15 23:45 <DocScrutinizer> I can't see use for a cpld there, for the one-line dimming etc it's too low level, for controlling the H-bridge it's overkill. Any stupid 4bit or 8bit uC will do just fine
2011-10-15 23:46 <kristianpaul> 10 + 1 ways ;)
2011-10-15 23:46 <wpwrak> yeah :) i'd pick an MCU, too. but then, if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail, right ? :)
2011-10-15 23:46 <DocScrutinizer> you don't need "lots of independent PWM" for controlling an illumination LED array
2011-10-15 23:47 <wpwrak> depends on what else the LED array is supposed to do. i wouldn't be surprised if it, say, grew USB at some moment in time, too :)
2011-10-15 23:48 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
2011-10-15 23:48 <DocScrutinizer> USB and cpld? hardly
2011-10-15 23:48 <wpwrak> the usual answer to this is ftdi :)
2011-10-15 23:48 <wpwrak> and the rest is a software problem :)
2011-10-15 23:49 <DocScrutinizer> the whole thing is mainly just a PSU
2011-10-15 23:50 <DocScrutinizer> there's just so much you could possibly innovate in PSU design
2011-10-15 23:51 <kristianpaul> energy efficient : 95% ? :)
2011-10-15 23:51 <DocScrutinizer> :shrug:
2011-10-15 23:51 <wpwrak> a random number
2011-10-15 23:52 <kristianpaul> :-|
2011-10-15 23:52 <DocScrutinizer> prolly, 
2011-10-15 23:52 <DocScrutinizer> >>a novel design realized with no radiator<<
2011-10-15 23:52 <wpwrak> at least he's engineer enough that he knows it can't be 100% ;-) but the rest sounds more like marketing speek
2011-10-15 23:52 <DocScrutinizer> sure, with only as little as 3.5W to dissipate ;-D
2011-10-15 23:52 <wpwrak> yeah, particularly that :)
2011-10-15 23:52 <kristianpaul> :\
2011-10-15 23:53 <wpwrak> naw, "delivered power" 70W. are those LEDs _really_ so efficient ?
2011-10-15 23:53 <kristianpaul> is it china, no?
2011-10-15 23:53 <kristianpaul> i mean, i wonder what world of kind of LEDs there are
2011-10-15 23:53 <wpwrak> agreed. he didn't specify for how long this is suppose to work
2011-10-15 23:54 <kristianpaul> he :)
2011-10-15 23:54 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: I guess that's power TO leds, not OUTPUT power from leds
2011-10-15 23:54 <wpwrak> maybe it's an array with 10 cm of metal structure between LEDs. that would work nicely :)
2011-10-15 23:54 <wolfspraul> yes
2011-10-15 23:54 <kristianpaul> at least during the fair ;-)
2011-10-15 23:54 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: doesn't really matter - you'll still burn a lot in LED losses :)
2011-10-15 23:54 <DocScrutinizer> sure
2011-10-15 23:55 <wolfspraul> ok we know little :-)
2011-10-15 23:55 <DocScrutinizer> as with any other light emitting technology
2011-10-15 23:55 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: is was more thinking in terms of fractions of a second :)
2011-10-15 23:55 <wolfspraul> I think conceptually yes, it's just a smart power supply
2011-10-15 23:55 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
2011-10-15 23:59 <DocScrutinizer> wolfspraul: no matter how smart it gets, finally you'll find it kinda looks like http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/images/functional_block_diagrams/ADP1653_fbl.gif
2011-10-15 23:59 <DocScrutinizer> s/one or two LEDs/a random number of LEDs/
2011-10-15 23:59 <wpwrak> that's already quite fancy :)