2011-09-15 00:40 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-0141/
2011-09-15 00:42 <wpwrak> yes ! finally killed a nasty bug in fped. figuring out that one took something like a year :)
2011-09-15 00:43 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: fped/obj.c (generate_items): handle failure to expand package name gracefully (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/b8f1add
2011-09-15 01:20 <freemor> @wpwrak congrats.. know how annoying those hard to track down bugs can be
2011-09-15 04:10 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-0512/
2011-09-15 05:53 <GitHub84> [milkymist] kristianpaul pushed 1 new commit to gps-sdr-testing: https://github.com/kristianpaul/milkymist/commit/01dccc715a895e51ce784d81326086ff62c03f60
2011-09-15 05:53 <GitHub84> [milkymist/gps-sdr-testing] full support for reading and writing, channel0 and control registers in namuru - Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas
2011-09-15 06:35 <cfy> do someone in china?
2011-09-15 06:35 <cfy> when i try to use opkg install gcc-mips.it seems that the content of the ipk is block by the gfw.....
2011-09-15 06:36 <cfy> xiangfu: gcc-mipsŒ<«™†.
2011-09-15 06:36 <xiangfu> cfy, it download from downloads.qi-hardware.com
2011-09-15 06:36 <cfy> xiangfu: /J.ï/(
2011-09-15 06:37 <xiangfu> cfy, you can try download: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/packages/NanoNote/Ben/latest/gcc-mips_4.5.2-1_xburst.ipk
2011-09-15 06:37 <cfy> xiangfu: oh,i try it again
2011-09-15 06:38 <xiangfu> cfy, sometimes the GFW block the qi-hardware.com. :( sometimes works just fine. good luck. or find one vpn :)
2011-09-15 06:38 <cfy> xiangfu: can i repartion the root partion?
2011-09-15 06:38 <xiangfu> cfy, you have the data partitions. 
2011-09-15 06:39 <xiangfu> it's 1.5GB 
2011-09-15 06:39 <xiangfu> cfy, if you want repartition, you have to modify kernel code. 
2011-09-15 06:39 <cfy> xiangfu: i don't like the data partition,when i install some software,it's still install in the rootfs
2011-09-15 06:39 <cfy> xiangfu: oh...
2011-09-15 06:40 <cfy> xiangfu: i will try to remount the /usr/ partition
2011-09-15 06:40 <xiangfu> cfy, I can access downloads.qi-hardware.com without vpn. 
2011-09-15 06:41 <xiangfu> cfy, there is '--dest' option in opkg
2011-09-15 06:41 <cfy> xiangfu: oh,got that
2011-09-15 07:06 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/LOG: finally got one more (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/88fa76b
2011-09-15 07:36 <cfy> xiangfu: i retry,and i'm sure the gcc-mips is blocked by the gfw.....
2011-09-15 07:37 <xiangfu> :(
2011-09-15 07:38 <cfy> xiangfu: maybe i need to download all the package,then copy to the nn.i have a 8GB microSD
2011-09-15 07:38 <cfy> xiangfu: maybe i should download all the package,then copy to the nn.i have a 8GB microSD
2011-09-15 07:38 <cfy> xiangfu: nice work :D, the new image is awesome !
2011-09-15 07:39 <xiangfu> thanks
2011-09-15 07:39 <xiangfu> with a lot of people here help
2011-09-15 07:41 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-0842/
2011-09-15 08:06 <Freemor> a1
2011-09-15 08:06 <Freemor> oops shouldn't type with no sleep sorry
2011-09-15 09:18 <Ayla> hi
2011-09-15 09:19 <Ayla> I'm about to disactivate the shortcut for the manual on gmenu2x
2011-09-15 09:19 <Ayla> I don't know what's the button on nanonote, but on dingoo pressing Y opens the manual (usually README) of the app
2011-09-15 09:20 <xiangfu> about app or about gmenu2x?
2011-09-15 09:20 <xiangfu> there is a 'About' in gmenu2x menu.
2011-09-15 09:20 <Ayla> I want to put that on the contextual menu instead, if there's any problem with it, please say it now :)
2011-09-15 09:20 <xiangfu> there is no apps README in nanonote :(
2011-09-15 09:20 <xiangfu> but we have : http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Applications
2011-09-15 09:21 <Ayla> yes there is, on the edit toolbox you can specify a manual
2011-09-15 09:21 <xiangfu> oh don't know that. thanks
2011-09-15 09:21 <Ayla> currently, pressing Y on the dingoo opens the manual if there's one
2011-09-15 09:22 <xiangfu> hmm. I think the Y is map to 'y' in nanonote
2011-09-15 09:22 <Ayla> ah ok
2011-09-15 09:22 <xiangfu> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Gmenu2x#Key_Bindings
2011-09-15 09:22 <Ayla> well, I want to remove that shortcut, and have an entry on the contextual menu instead
2011-09-15 09:22 <Ayla> the goal is to have fewer keys used by GMenu2X
2011-09-15 09:23 <Ayla> I already did the commit, I now wonder if I can push it
2011-09-15 09:28 <xiangfu> Ayla, sorry which shortcut?  I am a little confuse.
2011-09-15 09:28 <xiangfu> seems the 'F2' in nanonote is for 'contextual menu'
2011-09-15 09:29 <Ayla> yes
2011-09-15 09:29 <Ayla> and 'Y' shows the manual if there is one
2011-09-15 09:29 <Ayla> I want to remove that 'Y' shortcut
2011-09-15 09:29 <xiangfu> oh. ok. that is why when I press 'Y' there is nothing :)
2011-09-15 09:29 <Ayla> basically, if you take a look at this: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Gmenu2x#Key_Bindings
2011-09-15 09:30 <Ayla> I want to remove the use of X and Y 'original' buttons
2011-09-15 09:30 <xiangfu> yes. 'Y: Bring up the manual/readme. '
2011-09-15 09:30 <xiangfu> Ayla, yes. sure. why not. 
2011-09-15 09:30 <Ayla> as there's no rule on gmenu2x which defines which button is for accept (either A/START on dingoo, enter/s on nanonote), cancel, etc.
2011-09-15 09:31 <xiangfu> in fact I never press 'x' and 'y' when I use nanonote
2011-09-15 09:31 <Ayla> depending on the screen (settings menu, file chooser menu...) the keys are different
2011-09-15 09:31 <Ayla> ok
2011-09-15 09:31 <xiangfu> mostly 'enter' 'tab' 'l' 's' 
2011-09-15 09:31 <xiangfu> Ayla, thanks.
2011-09-15 09:31 <Ayla> thanks, for what?
2011-09-15 09:32 <xiangfu> thanks for your work on gmenu2x, 
2011-09-15 09:33 <Ayla> ah
2011-09-15 09:33 <Ayla> no problem :)
2011-09-15 09:35 <xiangfu> Ayla, do you know this : https://github.com/mtorromeo/gmenu2x/commits/master
2011-09-15 09:36 <xiangfu> http://mtorromeo.github.com/gmenu2x/
2011-09-15 09:36 <xiangfu> we should find a way to merge those two repo.
2011-09-15 09:36 <xiangfu> what do you think.
2011-09-15 09:36 <xiangfu> ?
2011-09-15 09:36 <Ayla> a big NO :)
2011-09-15 09:37 <Ayla> it would be a great idea to merge those two
2011-09-15 09:37 <Ayla> but the task would be enormous
2011-09-15 09:37 <xiangfu> wow
2011-09-15 09:37 <Ayla> the majority of work on Qi's branch of GMenu2X was to remove mtorromeo's crap
2011-09-15 09:38 <xiangfu> :)
2011-09-15 09:38 <Ayla> indeed his program is great, but he did it wrong
2011-09-15 09:39 <xiangfu> oh. so basic we folk the gmenu2x. then how about you take over the control and maybe you RENAME it to what you like? what do you think :)
2011-09-15 09:39 <Ayla> I told mth it would be faster to rewrite GMenu2X from scratch, he didn't believe me until he worked with the code :)
2011-09-15 09:40 <Ayla> I would prefer to write a new menu
2011-09-15 09:40 <xiangfu> gmenu3x
2011-09-15 09:40 <xiangfu> :)
2011-09-15 09:41 <Ayla> one of my wannabe projects is to write 'emenu'
2011-09-15 09:41 <Ayla> which would use the enlightenment libraries, hence the 'e'
2011-09-15 09:42 <xiangfu> just add you to 'Project owners'
2011-09-15 09:42 <xiangfu> s/add/added
2011-09-15 09:43 <xiangfu> if you want create a project in projects.qi-hardware.com just let me know. 
2011-09-15 09:43 <xiangfu> sorry, I have to go. see you later.
2011-09-15 09:43 <Ayla> bye
2011-09-15 11:11 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-1212/
2011-09-15 11:49 <kristianpaul> AwAyla: (enlightment) excelent choice ! :)
2011-09-15 12:11 <Freemor> @Ayla isn't Enlightenment very pointer dependant (haven't looked at it in years)
2011-09-15 12:49 <mth> AwAyla: when cleaning up existing code, you have something usable all the time that gradually becomes better, while if you rewrite from scratch you have nothing usable for a long time, then something usable but lacking features and in the end something good
2011-09-15 12:50 <mth> it's very easy to underestimate the amount of time before you reach usability parity with the existing program
2011-09-15 12:50 <mth> so by all means write your own menu as a long-term replacement for gmenu2x, but we should maintain gmenu2x until then
2011-09-15 12:52 <wolfspraul> 100% agree
2011-09-15 12:53 <larsc> yep
2011-09-15 12:54 <larsc> for the nanonote kernel the existing ingenic drivers allowed us to replace one at a time while still having a more or less running system all the time
2011-09-15 13:46 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-1448/
2011-09-15 14:07 <wpwrak> larsc: in other words, do not cut branch before having taken residence on different branch. given our ancestry, the concept should be intuitive :)
2011-09-15 14:18 <larsc> hmpf. stupid. before wondering why the devices does not respond apply power
2011-09-15 14:45 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-1547/
2011-09-15 15:43 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-1645/
2011-09-15 15:57 <Ayla> mth: hi
2011-09-15 15:57 <Ayla> mth: I'm not saying that my menu should ever replace gmenu2x
2011-09-15 15:58 <Ayla> I'm saying that I'd rather work on a new menu because gmenu2x is driving me crazy :)
2011-09-15 16:41 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-1743/
2011-09-15 16:53 <whitequark> hm. can gerbv render to image?
2011-09-15 16:54 <wpwrak> searches for an example ...
2011-09-15 16:54 <whitequark> I mean, I don't see a menu item or something like that.
2011-09-15 16:54 <whitequark> sure I can make a screenshot, but that's not very good on 1024x600.
2011-09-15 16:55 <wpwrak> something like this ? http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-110330-overview.png
2011-09-15 16:55 <wpwrak> or this ? http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/m1/tmp/front.png
2011-09-15 16:57 <whitequark> wpwrak: yeah
2011-09-15 16:57 <wpwrak> this is the script that does it: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/eda-tools/source/tree/master/fab/prettygerbv
2011-09-15 16:58 <whitequark> thanks
2011-09-15 16:58 <wpwrak> uses http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/eda-tools/source/tree/master/fab/drl2gerber
2011-09-15 16:58 <wpwrak> this is the version for kicad. other EDA systems need some adaptations
2011-09-15 16:59 <wpwrak> e.g., the version for altium would be here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/eda-tools/source/tree/master/fab/m1/
2011-09-15 16:59 <wpwrak> (M1 is done with altium ... unfortunately)
2011-09-15 17:01 <whitequark> wpwrak: my one is done in Eagle & TopoR, so the output is just the strict RS48whatever gerber file set
2011-09-15 17:01 <whitequark> well, it looks easy to tweak
2011-09-15 17:02 <whitequark> *looks like it is
2011-09-15 17:03 <wpwrak> prettygerbv should be easy. the drill file conversion may be harder. there's a lot of weird stuff in excellon and i only implement what's actually used
2011-09-15 17:39 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-1841/
2011-09-15 17:56 <whitequark> wpwrak: I've adjusted the file names, and it kind of works
2011-09-15 17:57 <whitequark> every view except "front" has its layers' positions hopelessly screwed up
2011-09-15 17:57 <wpwrak> heh, that's where the fun begins :)
2011-09-15 17:58 <wpwrak> you may also want to check the holes. chances are they're not at the right place (if you drew them at all)
2011-09-15 17:59 <whitequark> wpwrak: the holes were misplaced even just after CAM script my PCB manufacturer has provided
2011-09-15 17:59 <whitequark> I've adjusted gerber files manually in the gerbv. I hope they don't account for the offset in their own software.
2011-09-15 18:00 <wpwrak> (holes bad with script from manufacturer) nice :)
2011-09-15 18:00 <whitequark> or, actually I think that everything except holes was not at its place
2011-09-15 18:01 <wpwrak> with the kicad process we have now, it's pretty much "make fab" and mail them the files :)
2011-09-15 18:02 <whitequark> because when I ran the autorouter (another perversion: it works only with pcad, and a some weird format I never heard of, and an Eagle ULP exports into the latter), it gave me two copper layers in gerber, and they were on par with holes (but moved relative to everything else)
2011-09-15 18:02 <whitequark> kicad... I find it rather impenetrable somehow.
2011-09-15 18:03 <whitequark> Eagle is quirky and open-source, but I managed to understand how to actually do something useful in it
2011-09-15 18:03 <whitequark> *not open-source
2011-09-15 18:03 <wpwrak> (kicad) it's not so bad. some things are still weak, but yuo can work around most of them.
2011-09-15 18:03 <wpwrak> e.g., don't draw footprints in kicad - use my fped :)
2011-09-15 18:04 <wpwrak> yeah, the non-openness of eagle is its big problem. i know that it's extremely popular, but ...
2011-09-15 18:04 <whitequark> I was impressed by gerbv, through (it's in geda suite right?), first because it actually worked (not in the way 100s of windows crappy gerber viewers work), and second was now, when I've spotted Scheme code in your script
2011-09-15 18:05 <wpwrak> heh ;-)
2011-09-15 18:05 <whitequark> (I've got severely schemed recently, to the extent of porting it to Cortex-M3's)
2011-09-15 18:06 <wpwrak> gerbv is not as flexible as it may seem. but i like what i was able to do with it. for more advanced things, i may have to write my own gerber renderer, though
2011-09-15 18:07 <whitequark> what's I'm trying to do is to show my first PCB which will be actually manufactured at the fab
2011-09-15 18:07 <wpwrak> how many layers ?
2011-09-15 18:07 <whitequark> two
2011-09-15 18:08 <whitequark> I was able to make one-layered boards myself, but it looks like vias are too hard
2011-09-15 18:08 <wpwrak> then the prettygerbv process should suit you well. you just need to work out the quirks eagle puts.
2011-09-15 18:08 <whitequark> at least, for me
2011-09-15 18:08 <wpwrak> (vias) just make a hole and solder wire
2011-09-15 18:09 <wpwrak> if you have a cnc mill, you can make very precise holes and use a matching wire that doesn't fall out. easy to solder that way.
2011-09-15 18:09 <wpwrak> things get harder if you have big ground planes in addition to this.
2011-09-15 18:10 <whitequark> (mill) no, I don't. I only have a manual one, through with a support, but I always miss one or two holes destroying something in the process
2011-09-15 18:10 <whitequark> that is, while milling holes for 0.1" pinheads.
2011-09-15 18:11 <whitequark> and really thin drill bits which are suitable for vias just break because of miscentered something
2011-09-15 18:12 <whitequark> (vias) I've tried that once. it does not work well under TSSOP, at least for me.
2011-09-15 18:12 <wpwrak> a cnc mill shouldn't be all too expensive. maybe starting at usd 1500 (incuding taxes and such), you should be able find something decent
2011-09-15 18:12 <whitequark> usd 1500 is currently a lot for me
2011-09-15 18:12 <rjeffries> wpwrak I have a dumb question about that Panasonic EVQ77 siwith/joystick  I am not clear hwo many i/os it needs, and don't know if they are digital or analog.
2011-09-15 18:12 <wpwrak> (vias under tssop) ah, i wouldn't try that either. keep them out in the open
2011-09-15 18:13 <whitequark> wpwrak: if I manage to get images for that board somehow, you'll understand why I can't
2011-09-15 18:14 <wpwrak> rjeffries: all digital. 5 i/os
2011-09-15 18:14 <wpwrak> if you have enough space for tssop, you have enough space for vias not under components ;-)
2011-09-15 18:15 <rjeffries> wpwrak thanks. so it is like a D-Pad in a sense. yes?
2011-09-15 18:15 <wpwrak> rjeffries: maybe .. dunno what a d-pad is :)
2011-09-15 18:16 <wpwrak> it's kinda like the joysticks you got for the vic-20
2011-09-15 18:16 <rjeffries> wpwrak yes you do. one of those funking littel pinting devices on many mobile phones used 
2011-09-15 18:16 <whitequark> wpwrak: ok, screw that. let's say that top is enough: http://files.whitequark.org/t/front.png
2011-09-15 18:17 <wpwrak> oh, maybe. mine has a wheel. stolen (s) from apple(r), apple(r) would say ;-)
2011-09-15 18:17 <rjeffries> s/funky/ s/pointing/
2011-09-15 18:17 <whitequark> (space) hm. yes, now I realize that I indeed have a lot of space for that, okay.
2011-09-15 18:17 <wpwrak> whitequark: i was just starting to say ... ;-))
2011-09-15 18:18 <rjeffries> ok thanks for the tutorial wpwrak
2011-09-15 18:20 <whitequark> hm. somehow, a suspiction creeps in...
2011-09-15 18:20 <whitequark> wpwrak, do you send, like, a separate layer with vias to the fab?
2011-09-15 18:20 <wpwrak> no, i send them a drill file. they then know what to do :)
2011-09-15 18:21 <whitequark> ... fuck.
2011-09-15 18:21 <wpwrak> these are real-life examples of files that went to fabs: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/fab/
2011-09-15 18:21 <wpwrak> *pcb* is for making the pcb
2011-09-15 18:21 <whitequark> a) I can throw out the boards they'll do; b) I don't know how to make my autorouter write the drills file.
2011-09-15 18:21 <wpwrak> *smt* is for populating the boards
2011-09-15 18:23 <wpwrak> (just look at the latest version, of course. we went through a few iterations, also because they had some change requests)
2011-09-15 18:23 <wpwrak> (drill file) don't you re-import the layout into eagle ? the drill file may be called "excellon"
2011-09-15 18:25 <whitequark> wpwrak: hm. I've found a tutorial for my autorouter and Eagle, and it mentions nothing about re-importing. so I've just replaced top/bottom copper gerber files with the one autorouter has written
2011-09-15 18:26 <whitequark> well, I doubt that import is possible. After all, you need to know which wire belongs to which net, and gerber files does not contain this kind of information at all
2011-09-15 18:26 <wpwrak> ,aybe that's the way to do it. then you just need to find a way to get your drill file.
2011-09-15 18:27 <whitequark> ah yes, I remember something about Excellon. not that I knew what it is at that moment, of course
2011-09-15 18:27 <wpwrak> (import) well, depends on what your autorouter provides. there are relatively "fat" interfaces that should have all the information.
2011-09-15 18:28 <wpwrak> but ... it may be faster to just route the board manually :)
2011-09-15 18:30 <whitequark> it took me around of five hours to study that autorouterit has a really good interface, and the end result is pretty good too (I think)
2011-09-15 18:31 <wpwrak> it seems that someone studied their steiner trees well :)
2011-09-15 18:32 <wpwrak> some things look a little odd, though. e.g., the route to the pin below "JP1". or the little arc near "C1".
2011-09-15 18:33 <wpwrak> als the route between R6 to R7 is unnecessarily close to the pads.
2011-09-15 18:34 <wpwrak> either the router or eagle also has problems with filled areas. e.g., C3 and C2 has pads that are parts of the ground area, without thermal relief. they'll be fun to hand-solder :)
2011-09-15 18:37 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-1940/
2011-09-15 18:46 <wpwrak> in general, 100% autorouting is a bad idea. not only do most autorouters get things wrong, but there's also a lot of implicit information that's not properly codified. e.g., you'd keep areas sensitive to interference apart, but unless you've told your autorouter explicitly about that, it may not
2011-09-15 18:46 <wpwrak> or maybe it does on all the runs before the last one, for the factory :)
2011-09-15 19:35 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-2038/
2011-09-15 20:34 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-2136/
2011-09-15 21:32 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-2234/
2011-09-15 22:30 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09152011-2332/
2011-09-15 22:35 <whitequark> wpwrak: (quirks) yes, it has some, and I've fixed a few. looks like not enough of them
2011-09-15 22:36 <whitequark> wpwrak: (100% autorouting) I've set up several (three) keepout areas and so on, without them the result was much worse. It wasn't hard, through
2011-09-15 22:39 <whitequark> (filled areas) that's the gerber export. the area should have been hatched, but somehow it exports to gerber as solid
2011-09-15 23:01 <wpwrak> hmm, hatched became solid ? that's nasty ...
2011-09-15 23:24 <whitequark> wpwrak: yeah. and google does not reveal anything on that topic, either.
2011-09-15 23:28 <qi-bot> The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09162011-0030/
2011-09-15 23:29 <wpwrak> i wonder if kicad could do hatched. never tried that. there's a gazillion options in that dialog, though ...
2011-09-15 23:30 <wpwrak> of course, in practical terms, i don't think hatched makes all that much sense. what you really want are "moats" without copper around pads, and the traces connecting them to the copper zone. that way, the copper zone doesn't suck away all the heat, but you still get all the shielding benefits.
2011-09-15 23:31 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: maybe you know some uses for hatched copper fill ?
2011-09-15 23:38 <whitequark> wpwrak: hm, there's such an option, I'll try it out
2011-09-15 23:39 <whitequark> by the way, the drill file exported by the autorouter is displayed by gerbv, but it shows several errors about junk in place of tool definition
2011-09-15 23:39 <whitequark> and, worse, it, by some reason, does not want to set offset for that layer
2011-09-15 23:40 <wpwrak> is the drill file in excellon or in gerber ?
2011-09-15 23:41 <whitequark> ah, sorry, the latter is I'm being stupid and using mms where it expects mils
2011-09-15 23:42 <whitequark> the global switch at the bottom of workspace is quite confusing in terms of UX
2011-09-15 23:42 <wpwrak> the invisible hand of the us-american royalists ;-)
2011-09-15 23:43 <whitequark> well, often I prefer mils, too, because a lot of stuff is inch-based, but the autorouter only understands offsets in mm
2011-09-15 23:47 <wpwrak> pretty much all the modern stuff is metric. once the chinese buy digi-key, the last few imperial parts will vanish, too ;-) but yes, mils can stick at times. e.g., i wouldn't know my trace widths and clearances in mm without using "units".
2011-09-15 23:48 <whitequark> wpwrak: what about DIP? SO-1.27? pinheads? SMD passive component sizes?
2011-09-15 23:48 <wpwrak> some evil folks even metricise traditionally imperial parts. such as 100 mil becoming 2.50 mm. and then the really smart ones adjust the drill holes so both variants still somehow fit. sometimes ;-)
2011-09-15 23:50 <wpwrak> pretty everything smt below SOIC is metric or has metric equivalents. alas, not all of them happy choices. e.g., 0603 and 0402 exists in both systems. 
2011-09-15 23:52 <whitequark> yes, that's quite confusing
2011-09-15 23:52 <wpwrak> DIP ... well yes, still convenient for opto-couplers. and then you get all those 0.1" headers. or, as i said, their metric counterparts
2011-09-15 23:52 <whitequark> the pseudo-metric headers will bite you at more than 10 rows, I suppose
2011-09-15 23:52 <whitequark> (or lines?)
2011-09-15 23:53 <wpwrak> i think they went a bit too far with metricising the passive smt components. they're more like type codes anyway. the precise size of the chip scarcely matters.
2011-09-15 23:54 <wpwrak> i'd start to worry around the 4th pin :)
2011-09-15 23:54 <wpwrak> of course, you can bend them a little, ...
2011-09-15 23:54 <whitequark> was just going to say the same.
2011-09-15 23:54 <wpwrak> ... and then, when you plug in the connector, bend them back a little, ... ;-)
2011-09-15 23:55 <whitequark> (digikey) darn. I've ordered three buck converters, three LVDS serializers and a bunch of passive components from them. and now they're asking about the country in which I'll "assemble that parts"
2011-09-15 23:55 <whitequark> are all US suppliers equally idiotic/paranoid?
2011-09-15 23:56 <wpwrak> i think that's just gov.us nonsense
2011-09-15 23:56 <wpwrak> i doubt anyone actually reads what you write there ;-)
2011-09-15 23:57 <whitequark> no, they've actually sent me a email from their Intl Sales Dept. you know, by a real human
2011-09-15 23:57 <whitequark> he has signed it as "Bobbie" (quoted)
2011-09-15 23:58 <whitequark> 1.) Who is the buyer of these parts? 2.) You list the parts for individual use, but we are shipping to a company, please clarify. 3.) Are these parts being assembled in the states or in Russia?
2011-09-15 23:58 <wpwrak> wow ;-) maybe answer that you'll assemble in the principality of sealand, but you didn't find it in their menu. that'll give them something to ponder ;-)
2011-09-15 23:58 <whitequark> hm, company.
2011-09-15 23:59 <whitequark> I'm using a mail forwarding service (their fee for delivery to russia is $120. a hundred and twenty, that is), so I've unchecked the "ship to residental" checkbox