2011-08-17 01:58 <lemay> are there any plans for the milkymist involving GPS?
2011-08-17 01:58 <wolfspraul> right now we just hookup the sige front-end rf ic and see whether we can get it to work
2011-08-17 01:58 <wolfspraul> no big strategy or product plans
2011-08-17 01:59 <wolfspraul> sige sent us one evb, which went to kristianpaul who hooked it up to his milkymist one
2011-08-17 02:01 <wolfspraul> lemay: have you worked with namuru or osgps before?
2011-08-17 02:06 <lemay> No - never heard f either
2011-08-17 02:07 <lemay> I've done a lot of work with GPS though
2011-08-17 02:07 <lemay> from the RF front end to the tracking loops
2011-08-17 02:07 <wolfspraul> great
2011-08-17 02:08 <wolfspraul> if you stay here a little and timezone wise you and kristianpaul are both up I'm sure he might have a question for you
2011-08-17 02:09 <wolfspraul> seems he's not online right now, don't know what time it is in Colombia...
2011-08-17 02:09 <lemay> cool :)
2011-08-17 02:09 <lemay> I'd be happy to chat
2011-08-17 02:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: Nanonote: ignore HUP signal (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/64108ab
2011-08-17 02:38 <qwebirc86657> Review of KiCAD  http://dangerousprototypes.com/2011/08/16/kicad-open-source-pcb-layout-package-reviewed/
2011-08-17 02:40 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: gmenu2x, update and immediately stop then poweroff (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/d320abc
2011-08-17 02:48 <wolfspraul> qwebirc86657: thanks for sharing!
2011-08-17 02:52 <qi-bot> The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-08152011-2339/
2011-08-17 02:59 <kristianpaul> hello lemay ! :)
2011-08-17 03:00 <kristianpaul> wich kind of tracking loops had you worked with?
2011-08-17 03:01 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: he's out to dinner now :-)
2011-08-17 03:01 <kristianpaul> oh, ok
2011-08-17 03:08 <kristianpaul> quick update, them
2011-08-17 03:08 <kristianpaul> lemay: namuru correlator (actually kinda same tp gp2021 from zarlink) is ported now to milkymist
2011-08-17 03:09 <kristianpaul> missing and not implemented yet in software a proper tracking and pull-in algorythm that finally allow us to get navigation data :)
2011-08-17 03:09 <kristianpaul> later care about fixes :)
2011-08-17 03:12 <kristianpaul> so osgps wich stands to open source gps, was developd/used ten years or so ago with a gp2021 chip hookedup to a ISA card on a 100mhz computer
2011-08-17 03:12 <kristianpaul> the code is not the best you see, i'm not a skilled coder, but still dificult to get understan how it works as too  many things are in the same file.. well
2011-08-17 03:13 <kristianpaul> osgps seems to implement a PLL-like methog for tracking
2011-08-17 03:13 <kristianpaul> dunno how it works in detail
2011-08-17 03:14 <kristianpaul> and btw how yo get to here ;)?
2011-08-17 03:14 <lemay> hah, I have to dust off those memories
2011-08-17 03:14 <lemay> I bumped into wolfspraul
2011-08-17 03:14 <lemay> :)
2011-08-17 03:15 <lemay> well, the tracking loop I've done was pretty much like a PLL as well
2011-08-17 03:15 <kristianpaul> http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gif/bitsanim.gif
2011-08-17 03:16 <lemay> yea, correaltion
2011-08-17 03:16 <lemay> neat gif
2011-08-17 03:16 <kristianpaul> that above acording to the gp2021 datasheet can easilly achieved by a loop and namuru i guess
2011-08-17 03:16 <kristianpaul> i'll try that this weekend or earlier
2011-08-17 03:16 <kristianpaul> but
2011-08-17 03:17 <kristianpaul> at least graph it with gnuplot or similar
2011-08-17 03:17 <kristianpaul> once i had a clear correlatio peak
2011-08-17 03:18 <kristianpaul> the hunting star in order to pull-in http://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/receiv3.gif
2011-08-17 03:18 <kristianpaul> s/star/start
2011-08-17 03:19 <kristianpaul> and i'm not compley aware or understand a proper algortym for it.
2011-08-17 03:20 <kristianpaul> of course i'm now there ir no silver bullet on that as it depents on the aplication
2011-08-17 03:20 <lemay> Does the namuru have a complete RF front end?
2011-08-17 03:20 <kristianpaul> nope just correlator
2011-08-17 03:20 <kristianpaul> actually it still need aid from software to work, is not a complete base band solution
2011-08-17 03:21 <kristianpaul> here is where milkymist soc plays a role :)
2011-08-17 03:21 <lemay> what are those sma's for? IF?
2011-08-17 03:21 <kristianpaul> current frontend is a SE4162 from SiGE
2011-08-17 03:21 <kristianpaul> ir provides real and complex samples
2011-08-17 03:22 <kristianpaul> currently working on real mode, 16Mhz sampling clokc 2.556 IF and 2 bit Sign/mag out
2011-08-17 03:22 <kristianpaul> lemay: wich sma's exacly?
2011-08-17 03:22 <kristianpaul> from wich pic? 
2011-08-17 03:23 <lemay> heh, right - http://www.dynamics.co.nz/index.php?main_page=page&id=9
2011-08-17 03:23 <lemay> I forgot I got there from google and not from you showing me that
2011-08-17 03:23 <kristianpaul> oh wait, le me drop some links
2011-08-17 03:24 <kristianpaul> www.dynamics.co.nz/media/Namuru_GPS_datasheet.pdf <- namuru datasheet
2011-08-17 03:24 <kristianpaul> this is the EVB that wolfspraul talked about http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:SiGE_EVB_Zoomed.jpg
2011-08-17 03:25 <kristianpaul> here some sumary http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/GPS_Free_Stack
2011-08-17 03:25 <kristianpaul> lemay: was your work related to full software processing?
2011-08-17 03:26 <kristianpaul> was it offline or "real time" processing?
2011-08-17 03:26 <lemay> real time
2011-08-17 03:26 <kristianpaul> yay !
2011-08-17 03:27 <kristianpaul> so far the _only_ achievement about signaling was confirm code in the signal i sampled for offline prossing
2011-08-17 03:28 <kristianpaul> afaik i never got track, i guess because i wasnt aware osgps dint worked with complex samples..
2011-08-17 03:28 <lemay> you successfully correlated CA code in post-processing?
2011-08-17 03:28 <kristianpaul> with namuru?
2011-08-17 03:29 <lemay> uh, heh
2011-08-17 03:29 <kristianpaul> in short words i still on acquisition
2011-08-17 03:29 <lemay> right
2011-08-17 03:30 <lemay> what sort of data are you working with?
2011-08-17 03:31 <kristianpaul> from namuru?
2011-08-17 03:32 <lemay> I mean the RF
2011-08-17 03:32 <kristianpaul> currently sige rf fronted provides real samples,  2 bit sig/mag 
2011-08-17 03:33 <kristianpaul> 2.556Mhz IF  16.684 mhz sampling clock
2011-08-17 03:33 <lemay> gotcha - you already told me that, huh
2011-08-17 03:33 <lemay> :)
2011-08-17 03:34 <kristianpaul> oh no, sorry if i missudestand you, too many info and i'm soon (1rh or so) off bed
2011-08-17 03:34 <kristianpaul> you are in canada right?
2011-08-17 03:34 <lemay> so, since you're working with real samples, your next step is to try to correlate using osgps?
2011-08-17 03:34 <lemay> california
2011-08-17 03:35 <kristianpaul> oh, nice
2011-08-17 03:36 <kristianpaul> about osgps well not now, i did in the past some offline processing, as i was using milkymist just for data acquisition
2011-08-17 03:37 <kristianpaul> but now i have namuru on milkymist, so next plan is detect correlation peak
2011-08-17 03:37 <lemay> sounds good
2011-08-17 03:37 <kristianpaul> i hope ;)
2011-08-17 03:38 <lemay> does the namaru software take care of all of that?
2011-08-17 03:38 <kristianpaul> namuru is implemented in the fpga, lets said is the hardware DSP for all this, afaik no current software support for it that i'm aware off
2011-08-17 03:39 <kristianpaul> s/off/of
2011-08-17 03:39 <kristianpaul> so no no care of all that
2011-08-17 03:40 <kristianpaul> it will when the software side to drive the namuru will be developed/ported? for milkymist
2011-08-17 03:40 <kristianpaul> then we can call it milkymist  gps baseband soc i guess ;-D
2011-08-17 03:41 <lemay> gotcha. So you're going to interface the FPGA on the milkymist with the RF front end - the SE4162T-EK1 - and use it to track GPS
2011-08-17 03:41 <lemay> this sounds plausible to me
2011-08-17 03:41 <kristianpaul> yes thats already done
2011-08-17 03:41 <kristianpaul> actually i hope from now that is missing is software side
2011-08-17 03:42 <lemay> Yea, I mean the whole thing - the tracking GPS part - that's plausible
2011-08-17 03:42 <lemay> what sort of CPU will you use?
2011-08-17 03:42 <wolfspraul> hey, Milkymist is a CPU :-)
2011-08-17 03:42 <kristianpaul> tell is a SoC..
2011-08-17 03:42 <lemay> something in the milkymist - the LatticeMico32?
2011-08-17 03:42 <kristianpaul> milkymist uses a lattice  mico32 
2011-08-17 03:43 <kristianpaul> yes
2011-08-17 03:43 <kristianpaul> but yes CPU is okay i think
2011-08-17 03:43 <lemay> haha, I don't know enough about the system architecture :)
2011-08-17 03:43 <lemay> well, I think it will work
2011-08-17 03:43 <kristianpaul> sure it will !
2011-08-17 03:44 <lemay> I designed a front end for a system that is very similar
2011-08-17 03:44 <lemay> correlators in FPGAs, and controlled by an x86 running windows, of all things
2011-08-17 03:44 <lemay> its a Dell with a Virtex 4
2011-08-17 03:45 <kristianpaul> s/tell/well
2011-08-17 03:45 <kristianpaul> wow wow, sounds fancy :)
2011-08-17 03:45 <kristianpaul> is it pusblished somwhere?
2011-08-17 03:45 <lemay> yea, its nifty
2011-08-17 03:45 <wolfspraul> lemay: can you share some sources? :-)
2011-08-17 03:45 <lemay> unfortunately I can't
2011-08-17 03:45 <lemay> but I can try to help you
2011-08-17 03:46 <kristianpaul> i'm open now to learn about pull-in algorythms
2011-08-17 03:46 <lemay> I understood the tracking loops pretty well at one point, but it will take me a bit to shake off the dust
2011-08-17 03:46 <kristianpaul> btw the software on the x86 worked upon accumlators? or implemented PLL directly on FPGA?
2011-08-17 03:47 <kristianpaul> i was told that was posible too
2011-08-17 03:47 <lemay> it worked on the early prompt lates from the fpga
2011-08-17 03:47 <kristianpaul> take your time lemay , and hang on here of course
2011-08-17 03:47 <kristianpaul> great, on namuru we have same :)
2011-08-17 03:48 <lemay> it updated the phase shift register based on those sums
2011-08-17 03:48 <lemay> and I suppose the code replicators, too
2011-08-17 03:48 <kristianpaul> code replicators?
2011-08-17 03:49 <lemay> yea - for the crrelation
2011-08-17 03:49 <kristianpaul> replicator = generator ?
2011-08-17 03:49 <kristianpaul> ah yeah, replica code, yes yes
2011-08-17 03:49 <kristianpaul> go ahead, sorry for interrupt
2011-08-17 03:50 <lemay> I've got to go afk for a few minutes
2011-08-17 03:50 <lemay> be back in 5 or so
2011-08-17 03:52 <kristianpaul> ok i think i'm going bed now, my head is not feeling good...
2011-08-17 03:52 <lemay> ok
2011-08-17 03:52 <lemay> nice talking to you
2011-08-17 03:53 <lemay> if you come up with any questions let me know
2011-08-17 03:53 <lemay> I am in #elphel a lot
2011-08-17 03:53 <kristianpaul> last question for you is about how you managed to your software be wideband and narrow band,
2011-08-17 03:53 <kristianpaul> also how to manage doppler, and when the receiver is moving
2011-08-17 03:54 <kristianpaul> okay, nice to meet you too lemay
2011-08-17 03:54 <lemay> Well, your sampling rate will allow you to adjust for doppler
2011-08-17 03:54 <kristianpaul> read you later
2011-08-17 03:55 <lemay> and you need to tune your tracking loops depending on what dynamics you want
2011-08-17 03:55 <kristianpaul> and how to manage that satellite moves... i mean i have this early promt late, but how i do correlate that data? is tha pull-in about?
2011-08-17 03:55 <kristianpaul> i really need to understand an algoythm for it..
2011-08-17 03:56 <kristianpaul> yes i need to learn how in depth, at least to implement that for namuru, as i dont get that part clearly from osgps code... :|
2011-08-17 03:56 <lemay> the satellite motion is part of the doppler estimation
2011-08-17 03:56 <kristianpaul> ohh
2011-08-17 03:56 <kristianpaul> i tought was apart
2011-08-17 03:56 <lemay> I mean, that thing is moving at a jillion miles per hour, right?
2011-08-17 03:57 <lemay> so it has a doppler relative to you, even when your stationary
2011-08-17 03:57 <lemay> your tracking loops just care about the combined doppler
2011-08-17 03:57 <lemay> your combined doppler will be fairly insignificant compared with the correlation period
2011-08-17 03:58 <lemay> or, your delta doppler
2011-08-17 03:58 <lemay> I just started spouting gibberish, huh
2011-08-17 03:58 <lemay> so, you can tell what the combined doppler is, in general
2011-08-17 03:59 <kristianpaul> so whats the main issue about tracking? i mean once i detect the signal i play with... slewing code? or fixing local carrier nco values?
2011-08-17 04:03 <lemay> the main issue about tracking is replicating the correct code and carrier
2011-08-17 04:04 <lemay> you look at your early, prompt, and late correlation sums, and it tells you whether or not you are right on the signal, or if you are a little bit off
2011-08-17 04:05 <kristianpaul> i see, not sound complicated :)
2011-08-17 04:05 <lemay> based on that, you change the phase of the carrier that you are generating and you move the code forward or backwards
2011-08-17 04:05 <lemay> heh, are you being ironic or not? I can't tell.
2011-08-17 04:05 <kristianpaul> no no, no ironic
2011-08-17 04:06 <lemay> yea, conceptually it is not bad
2011-08-17 04:06 <kristianpaul> the faster the better i guess
2011-08-17 04:06 <lemay> so the PLL - phase locked loop - generates a carrier phase based on the early prompt and late sums (if I am remembering all this right.)
2011-08-17 04:07 <lemay> well, you have to correlate for so amount of time to generate your eraly prompt and late sums
2011-08-17 04:07 <lemay> like, 20 milliseconds is standard
2011-08-17 04:07 <kristianpaul> yes
2011-08-17 04:07 <lemay> so you get your updates at 50Hz
2011-08-17 04:08 <kristianpaul> yes, thats navigation rate per satellite right?
2011-08-17 04:08 <lemay> you update your tracking loops at 50hz
2011-08-17 04:08 <lemay> sounds right.
2011-08-17 04:08 <lemay> but thats different from the tracking loop
2011-08-17 04:09 <lemay> the tracking loop is adjusting the PLL at 50Hz, based on those correlation times
2011-08-17 04:09 <kristianpaul> tracking loop update in less than a 1ms i remenber, right?
2011-08-17 04:09 <kristianpaul> hum..
2011-08-17 04:09 <lemay> the nav data is basically checking the sign of the prompt signal
2011-08-17 04:10 <lemay> well, depends on your implementation
2011-08-17 04:10 <lemay> if Namuru does 1ms that's great
2011-08-17 04:11 <lemay> and maybe that's normal, I haven't thought about this in a while - maybe tomorrow I'll be saying to myself, 'yea, duh, of course its 1 ms....'
2011-08-17 04:11 <kristianpaul> i think is less 1ms is too tight, but yes it does
2011-08-17 04:11 <kristianpaul> he sure,
2011-08-17 04:12 <lemay> so, narrowband vs wideband - I am not sure I understand the question
2011-08-17 04:18 <lemay> I'm pretty sure that we 
2011-08-17 04:19 <lemay> heh, hit enter by accident :)
2011-08-17 04:23 <kristianpaul> mom
2011-08-17 04:25 <kristianpaul> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/zarlinksemiconductor/zarlink_GP2021_JAN_01.pdf page22
2011-08-17 04:28 <kristianpaul> well,i said by now, off bed now
2011-08-17 04:28 <kristianpaul> chao :)
2011-08-17 04:28 <lemay> o/
2011-08-17 04:28 <lemay> Yea, that sentence is kind of strange. I'd ignore it.
2011-08-17 04:30 <lemay> Essentially you change modes when you go from acquisition to tracking - in acquisition you are searching the entire code/doppler space, and once you have acquired, you don't need to search the doppler space - just the early prompt lates
2011-08-17 04:31 <rejon> here is a qi news item for you wolfspraul about shanzhai, blahblah http://www.iftf.org/node/3943
2011-08-17 04:31 <rejon> most of my comments had to be removed because were too personal and stinging
2011-08-17 04:32 <rejon> esp. the one about the open hardware logo being a broken gear
2011-08-17 04:33 <wolfspraul> ha
2011-08-17 04:34 <wolfspraul> you are right, never thought about it
2011-08-17 04:34 <wolfspraul> broken gear :-)
2011-08-17 04:39 <wolfspraul> rejon: phew, so much text [iftf] - do I have to read all that?
2011-08-17 04:40 <wolfspraul> I scanned over Bunnie's comments and I share all of those views.
2011-08-17 04:40 <rejon> no
2011-08-17 04:40 <rejon> its pretty comprehensive look at shanzhai
2011-08-17 04:40 <wolfspraul> Bunnie does have a real and deep understanding of these things.
2011-08-17 04:40 <rejon> concludes that chapter
2011-08-17 04:40 <rejon> i think i just repeat most of the things you put in my head
2011-08-17 04:40 <rejon> but my comments were mostly removed by my request
2011-08-17 04:40 <rejon> i wanted that gear one to go in
2011-08-17 04:41 <rejon> anyway, next
2011-08-17 04:41 <rejon> just an item for the news
2011-08-17 07:42 <xiangfu> wpwrak, someone ask atBen in mailing list: (1) can it be connected to a Arduino microSD shield? I am using Digi
2011-08-17 07:42 <xiangfu> Xbees at the moment but I would rather switch to atben if possible
2011-08-17 07:43 <xiangfu> wpwrak, I don't know  how Arduino software drivers works. so don't know how to answer :(
2011-08-17 07:45 <wpwrak> no, it won't work with the arduino microSD. arduino doesn't provide all the signals on the uSD.
2011-08-17 07:45 <wpwrak> and of course, you would also need to write a driver, etc.
2011-08-17 07:46 <xiangfu> ok. got it
2011-08-17 10:00 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: bitcmp/: little utility to find which bits differ between two files (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/08a13cd
2011-08-17 10:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: bitcmp/bitcmp.c: fixed fencepost error (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/78d9fda
2011-08-17 11:03 <`antonio`> wpwrak, I am trying to set up three nanonotes with atben, how do i set up the iz assoc and dirtpan? 
2011-08-17 11:05 <wpwrak> iz assoc should be the same on the two non-coordinators (they will receive different addresses)
2011-08-17 11:05 <wpwrak> dirtpan is point-to-point, so you'll need two dirtpan instances on each node.
2011-08-17 11:05 <wpwrak> e.g., on the coordinator:
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> dirtpan 777 1 8001 'ifconfig $ITF $IP1 dstaddr $IP2 up'
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> dirtpan 777 1 8002 'ifconfig $ITF $IP1 dstaddr $IP2 up'
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> on the node with short address 8001:
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> dirtpan 777 8001 1 'ifconfig $ITF $IP2 dstaddr $IP1 up'
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> dirtpan 777 8001 8002 'ifconfig $ITF $IP2 dstaddr $IP1 up'
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> and on the other:
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> dirtpan 777 8002 1 'ifconfig $ITF $IP2 dstaddr $IP1 up'
2011-08-17 11:06 <wpwrak> dirtpan 777 8002 8001 'ifconfig $ITF $IP2 dstaddr $IP1 up'
2011-08-17 11:07 <wpwrak> (i hope :) have't tried three nodes myself yet
2011-08-17 11:08 <`antonio`> wpwrak, ok :) i'll let you know how that goes !
2011-08-17 14:04 <jivs> Hi wpwrak, One of the atben is giving this error
2011-08-17 14:04 <jivs> i check the nanonote detects other atben, so i suppose kernel is fine
2011-08-17 14:04 <jivs> i tried on another nanonote as well same error
2011-08-17 14:04 <jivs> at86rf230 spi32766.0: Non-Atmel device found (MAN_IDff ff)
2011-08-17 14:04 <jivs> [    3.240000] at86rf230: probe of spi32766.0 failed with error -22
2011-08-17 14:04 <jivs> what it could be? anything related to atben hw?
2011-08-17 14:43 <`antonio`> wpwrak, 3 nanonote connected together with atben, that worked, thanks
2011-08-17 14:44 <wolfspraul> wow
2011-08-17 14:44 <wolfspraul> `antonio`: three?
2011-08-17 14:45 <`antonio`> yes
2011-08-17 14:46 <Ayla> interesting
2011-08-17 14:55 <jivs> 4 of them now!
2011-08-17 15:28 <wpwrak> jivs: (error) sounds like the atben card is missing or makes bad contact
2011-08-17 15:29 <wpwrak> whee ! largest atben network on the planet ! :)
2011-08-17 15:30 <kristianpaul> feels bad not buying/supporting some atben..
2011-08-17 15:30 <wpwrak> traitor !!! :)
2011-08-17 15:31 <jivs> wpwrak, i tried few times and on few ben nanonotes..
2011-08-17 15:32 <jivs> but i will try again if any device can detect it.. 
2011-08-17 15:36 <kristianpaul> no rush with tuxbrain. but paying lot of taxes make me keep away :(
2011-08-17 15:37 <kristianpaul> may be sharism can sell me soem atben? :)
2011-08-17 15:40 <kristianpaul> `antonio`: what are your plans with the atben?
2011-08-17 15:44 <`antonio`> kristianpaul, I am testing atbens as part of a project and hopefully tomorrow i'll do a video
2011-08-17 15:45 <`antonio`> wpwrak, for that jivs error: one atben is faulty.
2011-08-17 15:47 <wpwrak> `antonio`: :-(
2011-08-17 15:49 <wpwrak> `antonio`: if you want to analyze what's wrong, you could run the production test software on it
2011-08-17 15:49 <wpwrak> `antonio`: most likely, the GPIO test would spot something
2011-08-17 15:55 <wpwrak> `antonio`: the test is in this script: ben-wpan/prod/atben 
2011-08-17 15:57 <`antonio`> ok 
2011-08-17 15:58 <`antonio`> i'll let you know how that goes
2011-08-17 15:59 <wpwrak> there's actually very little that can go wrong on atben. any failure wold have to be a short (foreign particle ?) or a solder joint that failed
2011-08-17 16:00 <wpwrak> for failed solder joint, only a joint on the transceiver itself or the crystal would make it become unresponsive
2011-08-17 16:00 <wpwrak> for a short, add the capacitors as candidates
2011-08-17 16:05 <`antonio`> interesting !
2011-08-17 16:21 <wpwrak> `antonio`: setup and usage instructions for the test system are here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/
2011-08-17 16:21 <wpwrak> `antonio`: in your case, you don't need the atusb side (i.e., later tests of the atben would fail without atusb to talk to around)
2011-08-17 16:27 <`antonio`> wpwrak, i went through that already last week and I had some problem, i'll let you know if I got that working
2011-08-17 16:29 <`antonio`> also because i'll need your help :) 
2011-08-17 16:30 <wpwrak> hehe :)
2011-08-17 16:36 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: bitcmp/bitcmp.c: added indication of direction of bit flip (1 -> 0 or 0 -> 1) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/dd0c4ec
2011-08-17 16:43 <methril_work> wpwrak, in your fw adventures do you ever have stack problems?
2011-08-17 16:45 <wpwrak> methril_work: so far, i never hit any. at least not that i know ;-)
2011-08-17 16:46 <methril_work> wpwrak, i`m in this nightmare at work... 
2011-08-17 16:46 <methril_work> i know because a wonderful processor feature that resets the preocessor if a StackOverflow occurs
2011-08-17 16:48 <wpwrak> can you disable the reset ? (-:C
2011-08-17 16:49 <methril_work> yes, but then it gives undetermined behaviour
2011-08-17 16:49 <methril_work> it`s worst disabling it
2011-08-17 16:50 <wpwrak> excellent. then you can blame the hardware :)
2011-08-17 16:50 <methril_work> i balme all the time!! :)
2011-08-17 16:50 <methril_work> s/balme/blame/
2011-08-17 16:50 <wpwrak> :)
2011-08-17 16:50 <wpwrak> in hardware we distrust :)
2011-08-17 16:51 <methril_work> not in this HW :)
2011-08-17 17:21 <kristianpaul> arggg cannot exec `cc1' i hate rpm NOW
2011-08-17 18:27 <kristianpaul> what's license for this mmtp_i2l.pdf btw¿
2011-08-17 18:27 <kristianpaul> s/¿/?
2011-08-17 19:50 <lekernel> wtfpl
2011-08-17 20:09 <kristianpaul> no other license please
2011-08-17 20:13 <DocScrutinizer> yay exception on stack overflow - cool feature
2011-08-17 20:15 <wpwrak> PIC, i guess ? :)
2011-08-17 20:16 <lekernel> actually I wonder why no other arch implements this SPLIM register
2011-08-17 20:16 <lekernel> it's not even particularly hard to do
2011-08-17 20:17 <lekernel> we should add that to lm32 :)
2011-08-17 20:17 <wpwrak> lekernel: why ? the MMU will catch it nicely ;-)
2011-08-17 20:18 <lekernel> SPLIM is much easier to support in RTEMS than a MMU-based system
2011-08-17 20:20 <lekernel> and it will take ages before Flickernoise runs flawlessly on Linux
2011-08-17 20:21 <wpwrak> happily notes the now the possibility of running flickernoise on linux is being considered :)
2011-08-17 20:21 <wpwrak> but yes, certainly nothing trivial
2011-08-17 20:23 <lekernel> I have nothing against Linux... except that it doesn't work, and getting it to work takes 50-100x as much time as RTEMS for equivalent tasks
2011-08-17 20:24 <wpwrak> but when it works ... :)
2011-08-17 20:26 <kristianpaul> people will blame the 80Mhz cpu..
2011-08-17 20:26 <wpwrak> blame or dislike ?
2011-08-17 20:27 <wpwrak> isn't there still quite a bit of spare room in the fpga ? maybe you could add more cores ;-)
2011-08-17 20:27 <kristianpaul> yes, sorry. dislike
2011-08-17 20:27 <kristianpaul> oh sure
2011-08-17 20:27 <kristianpaul> all is posible ! ;)
2011-08-17 20:28 <wpwrak> simplify it and make a decacore. more than all the other big players ;-)
2011-08-17 20:29 <lekernel> in fact, a decacore might work right now
2011-08-17 20:29 <wpwrak> add some branch elimination logic for the bogomips loop, and you'll have stellar values there, too ;-)
2011-08-17 20:29 <lekernel> except that there's no software support for it ofc
2011-08-17 20:29 <wpwrak> lekernel: who cares about sw support ? it's all marketing :)
2011-08-17 20:31 <kristianpaul> just lack software support, what about hdl part? is that easy as just adding another lm32 to the shared bus?
2011-08-17 20:33 <wpwrak> (branch elimination) when you take a branch, remember where it went and what the condition was. then have a comparator on the program counter that implicitly executes the branch when incrementing into the address of the branch instruction iff the condition is met. voila, removed at least 1 instruction cycle :-)
2011-08-17 20:33 <wpwrak> now quick, where do i file the patent :)
2011-08-17 20:34 <lekernel> kristianpaul, if you don't want cache coherency (which could be a problem depending on the software) yes
2011-08-17 20:34 <lekernel> if you want cache coherency... you have to dig into the CPU pipeline, and since people seem already afraid of the simpler MMU this has little chance of happening
2011-08-17 20:36 <lekernel> though the LM32 cache is write-through, so all you have to do is broadcast writes to all cores. not too hard.
2011-08-17 20:37 <wpwrak> i somehow feel that we may see more cores pop up before too long :)
2011-08-17 22:06 <lekernel> wpwrak, phew, I'm not that optimistic
2011-08-17 22:07 <lekernel> among the current people I don't think anyone would pull that off
2011-08-17 22:07 <lekernel> and wrt finding new people, my google analytics reports still feel like a spit in my face
2011-08-17 22:07 <lekernel> so... it will be hard
2011-08-17 22:08 <wpwrak> lekernel: ah, i was thinking that you might have had an inspiration of the "hey, this would be EASY" kind :)
2011-08-17 22:10 <wpwrak> (followed by a few hours of furious hacking. then a few more days, realizing that it wasn't all that EASY, but still doable. etc. ;-)
2011-08-17 22:12 <lekernel> can you believe it? the elektor article, run in 3 different languages (and soon 4), generated so far exactly 2 people following the project and 1 board sale
2011-08-17 22:15 <wpwrak> wow. does elektor have so little reach these days ?
2011-08-17 22:15 <lekernel> seems so
2011-08-17 22:15 <lekernel> even slashdot had better results (and it took less time to write the article, too), despite the trolling
2011-08-17 22:16 <wpwrak> heh :)
2011-08-17 22:16 <wpwrak> well, a good article is also something you can point people to and you can reuse some of the material. so it's not a waste of time
2011-08-17 22:17 <lekernel> so atm i'm trying xcell, aimed specifically at people who are not afraid of fpga's to start with
2011-08-17 22:18 <lekernel> some articles are also "syndicated" in publications like eetimes
2011-08-17 22:18 <wpwrak> yeah. maybe that'll get some more developers aboard
2011-08-17 22:19 <lekernel> so, atm I rather feel the need to fix that huge unpopularity problem rather than mess with multicore lm32's ...
2011-08-17 22:24 <wpwrak> maybe multicore will get people excited :)
2011-08-17 22:25 <wpwrak> i think once linux runs well, this may help. lowers the barrier of entry quite a bit if you have a familiar operating system.